IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2026-03-27
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00:01:15 <will_marshall_> I have work's office copy of this book knocking around and so my mind is full of signalling obscura.
00:07:43 <will_marshall_> Strictly speaking you could use the custom signals to define 2/3/4 aspect colour lights and then the selection of weird things. perhaps you can go too far with such things though. I'll have to sleep on it.
00:08:08 <will_marshall_> Anyway, I'll move back to my own box.
01:07:14 <talltyler> I would love to have actual distant and home signals in OpenTTD. Set up the distants as repeaters, and I think it would pretty much work. Maybe you could even program Cancel Long Reserve to simulate Rule 39 where necessary. 😄
01:07:50 <will_marshall_> jumping into the lake because you can't define signal gfx per-railtype, only globally
01:08:01 <will_marshall_> so that puts the kibosh on this without a severe regression
01:09:42 <will_marshall_> time to sleep on it
01:12:10 <squirejames> Bonus points for using the word "kibosh"
02:09:29 <talltyler> JGRPP has a signal spec for many types, no?
02:14:03 <talltyler> (Haven’t touched the code, just played with it)
02:14:29 <talltyler> I think it might be Multi-Aspect signals that shows it off?
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03:35:47 <kaibaneddy> will_marshall_: You can certainly draw different standard signals per railtype. Don't know about jgr spec.
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05:17:33 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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05:58:37 <kaibaneddy> You don't even need to swap before encoding, grf doesn't care what the palette colours of it's source files are
06:01:26 <kaibaneddy> But it would make more sense to use a 'real' range imo
06:07:10 <rito12_13> It needs to recognise whether it is a Windows or DOS palette?
07:00:32 <andythenorth> In principle the vehicle grf could provide the range for recolour and the cargo grf applies the remap
07:00:57 <andythenorth> That’s beyond just “here is a recolour sprite” though
07:52:17 <_zephyris> Sprite layers can have different recolours, right? (I've, never actually coded anything using them)
07:53:44 <_zephyris> Could just use CC/2CC ranges on the cargo sprite layer, which would also let you do two colours for fruit easily, maybe confuse artists less
08:16:43 <emperorjake> Recolour sprites can be anything, doesn't need to use CC
08:17:00 <emperorjake> And yes, we figured out how to have separate layers with different recolours
08:21:38 <peter1138> Yes, the idea with this thing is it relies on separate layers, and isn't affected by remaps applied to the rest of the vehicle.
08:23:04 <peter1138> But for a vehicle GRF to "provide the range" would require a dynamic remap system and a way to populate it that doesn't exist and be difficult to fulfill.
08:24:31 <andythenorth> they can have different recolours yes
08:25:13 <andythenorth> oh out of order replies :P
08:26:59 <andythenorth> CC is the most logical choice I guess
08:28:46 <peter1138> The spec would need to be very clear that the overlay sprite should contain a mix from both ranges, even though for most cargo types the ranges would be the same.
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09:18:46 <andythenorth> from purely selfish perspective, I don't care what range is used, I can just remap all the existing sprites into the required range, at compile time
09:18:59 <andythenorth> but it's harder to figure out what would work for others
09:19:51 <andythenorth> people will try and use this to recolour things like steel / paper / copper coil sprites
09:20:06 <andythenorth> and generic crates or tarpaulins
09:20:19 <andythenorth> "people who might be andythenorth"
09:21:00 <peter1138> Well, and animals apparently.
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09:25:51 <notluke2578> Cattle in open wagons?
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10:03:25 <_zephyris> Anyway, doesn't _have_ to have both ranges, fine to have two cargos look the same.
10:03:49 <_zephyris> Using separate ranges to CC/2CC allows artists to not require sprite layering
10:04:03 <_zephyris> Using CC/2CC might be more intuitive/expected to grf authors
10:04:19 <_zephyris> But overall, more tools=good
10:14:46 <peter1138> If there are two ranges, it should be expected that both ranges are used in the sprites.
10:14:52 <peter1138> Otherwise there's no point in having a second range.
10:29:35 <_zephyris> Sort of yes, sort of no. Makes sense for eg. bulk cargo (so you could have green+yellow for fruit), but not always, eg. lifestock (probably just need pink white and brown). So, recommended, but not technical requirement.
10:30:06 <_zephyris> Documentation and examples should use both ranges, etc.
10:50:13 <peter1138> Right, I was mostly thinking of bulk, yes.
10:50:26 <peter1138> Livestock is one that probably doesn't make sense to recolour.
10:50:33 <peter1138> Liquid is never visible anyway.
10:56:51 <andythenorth> Being crude about it, if it’s literally just a recolour sprite, aren’t the standards for ranges “whatever FIRS does” 😛
10:58:50 <_zephyris> But yeah, it's a recolour sprite, so could do arbitrary changes. Recommended would be to hit two standard ranges to expect recolour, then artists and coders need to play nicely together
10:59:04 <peter1138> andythenorth, no because vanilla has fruit which your scheme doesn't cater for.
10:59:33 <peter1138> Vanilla cargoes need to be included otherwise authors still have to draw cargo-specific bulk cargo.
11:00:18 <peter1138> In OpenGFX 2 at least, fruit is a mix of browny-greeny, and it shouldn't depend on, say, the brightness.
11:06:08 <ahyangyi> andythenorth: I'm recolouring my sprites anyways
11:06:25 <ahyangyi> though I think I used a mixture of your palettes and timberwolf's
11:08:22 <ahyangyi> Anyways, drawing cargo-specific sprites is a feature for me, not something to avoid
11:08:33 <ahyangyi> just that nobody can be future proof
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12:17:32 <andythenorth> I did it as a specific sprite, not recoloured
12:17:51 <andythenorth> that's not amenable to this approach
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12:41:56 <_zephyris> Would work for the way I've drawn OGFX2, I used recolouring to make the sprite
12:42:18 <_zephyris> But it'd be an opt-in anyway - a flag to use recolouring, and providing a sprite which can be recoloured
12:51:54 <andythenorth> I think that making a branch of Horse to support this would not be a lot of work
12:52:45 <andythenorth> to test with vanilla coal, iron ore, copper ore etc
12:53:35 <squirejames> Is vanilla coal like vanilla coke, just with added sulphur?
12:58:18 <_zephyris> Same from my POV, a quick test newgrf based on the ogfx2 road vehicles would be easy
13:46:48 <peter1138> I think setting the palette for a layer requires setting a register, so it might be a bit fiddly.
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15:57:58 <peter1138> Pfft. Silly preview.
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19:51:09 <vash> I want to contribute to open source development
20:07:42 <eed_edward> 1. Fork; 2. Create pull request; 3. Wait for approval; Easy contribution in only three steps!
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21:03:21 <andythenorth> peter1138 such recolour bulk sprites then?
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21:10:26 <reldred> are we yolo merging Tyler’s reversing trains stuff yet?
21:20:32 <peter1138> I've been poor and not reviewed it yet.
21:23:08 <reldred> You’ve been poor? So this is a solution requiring bribes? 😎
21:27:07 <reldred> Black, black and yellow, black and CC
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21:35:25 <andythenorth> not sure they make sense yet :P
21:35:33 <peter1138> reldred, surely we're all rich with Atari payoffs or something...
21:35:48 <andythenorth> it's almost stopped being a thing
21:35:54 <andythenorth> it's like 1 steam comment per day now
21:44:38 <andythenorth> oh it did get written up on the internet a bit
21:44:52 <andythenorth> well, now it's time to paint pixel trains
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22:30:25 <rito12_13> andythenorth: Triple yellow?
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