IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2026-03-26
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00:32:47 <talltyler> Finding and fixing little bugs, like backwards trains not unloading properly when they're too short for a station platform 🙂
00:47:37 <emperorjake> Exciting stuff, hoping it gets merged 😅
00:50:04 <talltyler> My current test game 🙂
00:51:25 <talltyler> Wyes for freight trains, loops for passenger, push-pull for metros, and some ~~bad~~ organic junctions
01:07:26 <reldred> Can you imagine if we got the drive through depots as well? No more bags of holding, can make it so trains don’t magic flip on depots as well
01:07:38 <reldred> Bring a tonne of new depth to network building
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01:33:03 <wensimehrp> fairyflossy: ~~fd~~
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01:52:09 <peter1138> reldred, working on it. Kinda.
01:53:02 <peter1138> Probably ought to add an option to disallow it, Purists.
01:58:20 <reldred> Yeah no there would need to be for anything like this
01:58:37 <reldred> Default to sane sensible TTD’ish defaults or old saves will be cooked
01:59:37 <reldred> The other cool thing pr8480 did was trains (unless stopped in a depot) didn’t despawn, they occupied the tracks and you had to build them long enough to accomodate your trails and build em out enough to fit all your trains servicing at the same time.
02:00:08 <reldred> The JGRPP one just allows a train to traverse from the entry of one in a row to the entry of the one on the opposite side
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05:17:23 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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11:18:14 <andythenorth> it was warm in my house
11:42:32 <LordAro> kaibaneddy: i understood that reference
12:15:05 <peter1138> What colour is the cargo in the hoppers?
12:16:29 <peter1138> Of course, I didn't get anywhere with my idea of per-cargo vehicle cargo overlay recolours...
12:16:58 <peter1138> > You don't know what the cargo is? That's okay, let the cargo recolour itself appropriately.
12:24:10 <andythenorth> cargo colours you say? 👀
12:24:38 <andythenorth> hmm so you mean a cargo could inject a recolour sprite to the sprite stack?
12:24:42 <andythenorth> or something like that?
12:26:42 <andythenorth> about 800 similar spritesheets
12:28:33 <andythenorth> I could do it in Horse with recolour sprites anyway, but it's nice to eyeball the result in the spritesheet when choosing colours
12:28:52 <andythenorth> but doing it via the cargo in FIRS would be worth changing to
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13:25:53 <_zephyris> talltyler: Loving Toot Baldon rendered in Full English 🙂
13:31:11 <peter1138> Something like that.
13:32:16 <peter1138> Vehicle set provides the sprite, cargo provides the recolour. Requires a spec that defines a reasonable range of colours to remap.
13:49:43 <_zephyris> Should've read the conversation instead of getting excited about toot baldon
13:50:14 <_zephyris> Nice idea, would be nice for stations too, to recolour stockpile or whatever
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15:06:19 <_zephyris> Nice, good choice IMO
15:21:40 <talltyler> I helped a bit with #15401, someone besides me will have to review 🙂
15:22:06 <talltyler> (as it would otherwise be effectively a self-approval)
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17:05:43 <peter1138> andythenorth, I don't know what I mean.
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18:04:06 <andythenorth> I rarely know what I mean
18:04:11 <andythenorth> I just keep talking until something happens
18:33:43 <_zephyris> Anyway, wasn't the vague chat about adding a recolour sprite to cargos, which could then be used if a vehicle sets a flag?
18:42:31 <andythenorth> immediate FIRS support would be forthcoming
18:43:24 <andythenorth> all the recolours are already python dicts of {a:b} mappings in a module that is vendored in
18:43:44 <andythenorth> so FIRS could just implement those
18:47:00 <peter1138> _zephyris, yes, vehicle must use sprite layers, and then set "a flag" for the cargo sprite layer.
18:48:45 <peter1138> I mean, no idea if it's feasible :)
18:49:14 <andythenorth> as a proxy test of the benefits
18:50:36 <andythenorth> Horse with cargo support for 19 different bulk cargos in varact 2 and sprites: 46MB grf
18:50:37 <andythenorth> Horse with cargo support for 1 bulk cargo: 32MB grf
18:51:39 <andythenorth> cuts about 4 seconds off a 25 second compile from clean also
18:52:03 <_zephyris> Ant those 4s are the key thing 😉
18:52:12 <andythenorth> I wouldn't get the same saving by implementing my own recolour sprites due to needing all the varact2
18:53:13 <peter1138> Hmm, how are palette remaps generally loaded? GRM?
18:55:13 <peter1138> I think the benefit is not so much compile time (it never is), nor file size, but rather the ability to support any cargo without knowing its label, or class, or anything.
18:59:48 <andythenorth> I did wonder if we could also provide sprites for compositing, but too many variables in vehicle sizes etc
18:59:54 <_zephyris> It's conceptually elegant - makes sense for a cargo to (optionally) define what it looks like
18:59:55 <andythenorth> or station arrangements
19:01:39 <peter1138> Well, the remap can only change the colour, the vehicle sprites get to determine how it appears in the vehicle.
19:06:35 <peter1138> Bulk cargo in hoppers is the most obvious use-case.
19:06:51 <peter1138> I suppose you could do liquids as well...
19:07:48 <peter1138> Of course, it won't work properly with cargo types that don't set a remap, so, uh...
19:08:55 <peter1138> May need remaps for default cargos.
19:12:10 <peter1138> Well that isn't going to be useful :)
19:13:57 <andythenorth> Do stations have recolour sprites?
19:41:10 <peter1138> And yes, it makes sense to handle it there too, if possible.
19:41:52 <peter1138> Lack of backwards compatibility is an issue :(
19:41:53 <ahyangyi> Did I hear station remap 😮
19:42:56 <ahyangyi> Where are you talking about? The ability for vehicles / stations to automagically use a remap palette from a cargo type?
19:43:35 <ahyangyi> Like when someone adds a Mithril Ore my wagons all show that mithril silver even if I never cared about what Mithril is?
19:52:23 <goddess_ishtar> yeah I believe so
19:53:14 <peter1138> Yes, something like that.
20:09:56 <peter1138> andythenorth, they're using Iron Horse
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20:15:25 <rito12_13> andythenorth: Why not 215 to 222, are those colours used for something ingame?
20:43:28 <ahyangyi> weird ore and weird liquid are probably the most obvious benefits
20:44:06 <ahyangyi> But I wonder if I can draw some nondescript animals that roughly looks like a sheep, a pig or a calf depending on the palette
20:44:22 <ahyangyi> probably impossible though
20:49:24 <_zephyris> Why's backwards compatibility an issue?
20:51:59 <_zephyris> If a new industry set defines new cargos, then existing vehicle sets would fall back to generic graphics, independent of whether the new cargos provide a recolour or not.
20:53:20 <_zephyris> The other way round, if a vehicle set expects to see cargo recolours, but an existing industry set doesn't provide them, then it would have to fall back to generic graphics. But that's an author choice to assume support for a new feature, and would gradually improve over time.
20:54:05 <_zephyris> (FWIW, i think you'd get away with recolours for different livestock, noone looks that closely at 4 pixel pigs.)
20:57:38 <peter1138> 32bpp 4x zoom entered the chat :p
20:58:25 <peter1138> Well, we could provide a fallback ambiguous nondescript palette.
20:58:51 <peter1138> So is there a standard palette range that will provide a nice mix of shades and hues?
21:19:15 <peter1138> Let's see. Default bulk cargos, coal, grain/wheat/maize, iron ore, fruit, copper ore, sugar, toffee, cotton candy.
21:20:09 <goddess_ishtar> ahyangyi: it's all just LVST, isn't it?
21:20:43 <goddess_ishtar> I don't know of any set which splits them
21:24:05 <peter1138> Well, fruit seems to be multiple colours.
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22:11:24 <jfkuayue> I always read `LVST` as "livsto"
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22:34:02 <andythenorth> @rito12_13 215 to 222 are really hard to draw with when they're all indexed to the same pink :P
22:39:30 <Timberwolf> I use the company colour ranges (80-87, 198-205 iirc) for the cargo overlays in my sprite stacks.
22:39:58 <Timberwolf> That's more because GoRender knows they're "special" and not to use colours outside of those ranges for shading, mind.
22:43:54 <Timberwolf> I say that, looking at it I think bulk cargo is 1-7 because apparently SOMEONE couldn't be bothered to change what was originally the "coal" sprite.
22:45:18 <Timberwolf> Poetic that I spend a large amount of my day job complaining about people who don't think any further than fixing the problem which is immediately in front of them.
22:54:53 <talltyler> I guess that rhetorical question could apply to only fixing immediate problems, or complaining about others 😛
22:55:34 <talltyler> Hmm, backwards trains really changes network design requirements, it's like a whole new game
22:55:45 <talltyler> Which I am suddenly bad at 😄
23:03:06 <reldred> From what I understand Ragin and the JP+ team are using CC blue and compositing multiple sprites
23:07:43 <emperorjake> We don't use CC blue, we use the fire cycle
23:17:47 <emperorjake> This was inherited from Dutch train set
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23:19:31 <talltyler> Stupid idea of the day: NewGRF industries can have a minigame (written in ???) which boosts production. Finally, a fishing minigame in OpenTTD... 😛
23:20:02 <will_marshall_> If you're adding aribitrary scripting into newgrf specs you're being sent DIRECTLY to the custom airport layouts salt mines.
23:20:46 <talltyler> Nah, we'll just let Game Scripts do it, they can do anything 😛
23:21:00 <will_marshall_> Gamescript wot depends on newgrf, what is the world coming to.
23:21:34 <talltyler> It's been too long since I've ruined OpenTTD
23:22:23 <will_marshall_> Timberwolf: I hope you won't be mortally offended if I spend a few pleasant afternoons knocking up some JGRPP-only custom signals for your track set and then send you a pull request with a £20 note stuffed inside?
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23:50:17 <Timberwolf> No, that's all good, I haven't really done much with the JGR signals beyond the basic multiple aspects.
23:50:39 <Timberwolf> I think I ran out of UK prototypes I could think of last time I was adding signal types :)
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