IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2026-01-21
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04:49:30 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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11:53:09 <rito12_51026> Is `t.m4() = 0 << 5 | 0 << 2;` equivalent to `t.m4() = 0;`?
11:53:50 <rito12_51026> then why is it used
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12:01:59 <peter1138> Usually because it better describes the state that is being set.
12:03:32 <peter1138> If it's tree_map.h, then it's probably just left over.
12:04:34 <rito12_51026> It is also in `MakeClear` and `MakeField`
12:07:30 <peter1138> Yes, it's setting the fence parts to 0, without calling SetFence().
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16:16:17 <_glx_> yes I'm trying to handle dependabot PRs
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16:35:25 <peter1138> How DARE we separate logical code blocks with double line-feeds...
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17:19:39 <locosage> If only it was procedural...
17:19:50 <xarick> omg youtube is unpausing my videos now?
17:36:56 <kuhnovic> locosage: Still going on about trees increasing savegame size?
17:39:49 <jfkuayue> LordAro: I have received an MSc Maths offer from uni of York
17:48:13 <locosage> kuhnovic: well, it's still an issue
17:52:28 <locosage> I'd rather not choose between players being able to join the server and having trees on the map
17:53:29 <mmtunligit> how the heck do trees impact savegame size, it still takes up the same 1 tiles worth of memory no?
17:53:47 <locosage> because trees are random, random doesn't compress
17:53:52 <locosage> everything else is orderly
17:54:00 <locosage> so adding trees makes the save like 4x larger
17:55:27 <mmtunligit> i mean, is not all the data in a tile functionally random as far as compressing things goes? also feels like a 4 x 0 is still 0 sort of thing
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17:56:19 <locosage> I don't remember exact numbers I got but removing trees makes it somewhere between 4 and 10x smaller
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17:58:00 <mmtunligit> i mean i guess if all tiles are just zeroes after the height info that would make it smaller sure but improving that in some programatic fashion seems like itd break down the moment a player places a tree
17:58:16 <andythenorth> I feel we're out of practice
17:58:19 <mmtunligit> im hoping for some
17:58:30 <mmtunligit> been starving all day
17:59:27 <andythenorth> 65k railtypes was it?
17:59:29 <locosage> mmtunligit: I've already made PRs that didn't break after placing a tree 😜
17:59:36 <andythenorth> or 64 railtypes, with 64 variants each?
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18:00:20 <mmtunligit> i dont really feel like digging through old PRs to see why but i trust the judgement of the maintainers
18:00:20 <locosage> coz devs see "no issue" 😡
18:01:43 <LordAro> saves are already orders of magnitude smaller than most other multiplayer games data transfers, i'm not sure how savegame size will change someone's ability to connect on a terrible connection
18:02:03 <mmtunligit> yeah, 4-10 times 0 is still 0
18:02:37 <LordAro> mmtunligit: i too cannot be bothered to go dig out the PR, but there definitely were savings
18:02:56 <locosage> it's 4-10 times for eyecandy stuff that's not particularly relevant for the gameplay
18:02:58 <LordAro> can't remember if trees are being stored separately to tile data or something
18:03:15 <mmtunligit> theyre in the map array
18:03:58 <locosage> iirc I only stored the presence of the tree, it's data was calculated on the fly
18:04:16 <locosage> unfortunately even storing presence turns out to be quite a lot
18:04:38 <LordAro> i'd imagine sheer number of trees would have as much of an impact too
18:04:44 <LordAro> which kuhnovic's PR would help with
18:04:55 <locosage> that it would probably do
18:05:34 <locosage> but I'm thinking of just making trees a cmclient feature
18:05:41 <locosage> vanilla peasants can play without
18:06:17 <locosage> on citymania servers I mean ofc
18:06:51 <LordAro> you're welcome to do whatever shitbattery you like
18:07:22 <locosage> plenty of other servers already run treeless anyway
18:07:43 <_jgr_> This seems likely to make your network compatibility approach more difficult?
18:08:18 <locosage> nah, from compatibility standpoint that would just be a game without trees
18:08:28 <locosage> cmclient will just add some procedural ones for visuals
18:09:36 <mmtunligit> blegh, editing files in buried commits that are also touched in later commits
18:12:37 <kuhnovic> So you still get the tree-cluttered savegame from somebody else, and cmclient just ignores it and shows its own trees? Doesn't really seem like a win...
18:13:24 <rito12_51026> mmtunligit: All clear tiles store type, density and counter in m5, so thats also not zeroes
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18:29:09 <ahyangyi> LordAro: I guess I can jump in and dig it
18:30:29 <peter1138> LordAro, I got new (to me) wheels.
18:45:14 <kuhnovic> I also need to do that in my PR
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19:09:10 <andythenorth> peter1138: contagious
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20:25:41 <_zephyris> Aaarg, trailing white space....
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20:41:51 <locosage> kuhnovic: no, I mean that as a special feature that can be enabled for games without trees
20:52:48 <_glx_> I have a feeling it will happen in almost all repos
21:03:59 <_glx_> hmm too many commits in #15141
21:07:26 <andythenorth> what if the player could toggle railtypes on or off in every railtype grf?
21:07:42 <andythenorth> they all have these complicated configuration parameters
21:08:20 <andythenorth> Railtype Construction Toolkit
21:08:42 <andythenorth> also player setting for railtype speed limits
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21:18:11 <housemd123123> i came here to ask for help, how do i properly install PatchTTD/JGR ?
21:19:36 <mmtunligit> download whichever file makes sense for your OS from there, extract it to wherever you want, and run the executable
21:20:10 <housemd123123> what about PatchTTD? is that a seperate patch?
21:21:33 <housemd123123> or is it a different dependency for addons that JGR cant be depended on?
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21:22:19 <reldred> TTDPatch isn’t relevant anymore
21:22:58 <_glx_> yeah TTDPatch is outdated
21:23:26 <housemd123123> oh so then NewStations isnt suported anymore since TTDPatch is gone?
21:23:38 <_glx_> all newgrf are supported
21:24:12 <reldred> TTDPatch was from before OpenTTD
21:24:29 <tabytac> Yeah last TTDPatch version is from 2007
21:24:37 <reldred> OpenTTD replaces all functionality
21:24:46 <housemd123123> reldred: wiat how does that make sense?
21:25:23 <reldred> OpenTTD is an open source clone of TTD, TTDPatch is a patch for TTD.
21:26:03 <reldred> OpenTTD came out in 2004, TTDPatch came out late nineties early 2000’s, TTD itself was released ‘95/96
21:26:23 <reldred> JGRPP is a forked version of OpenTTD
21:26:24 <housemd123123> huh i actually didnt know that
21:26:38 <_glx_> TTDPatch was required to run TTD on XP
21:26:54 <reldred> OpenTTD and JGRPP implemented 99% of the features that TTDPatch made for TTD
21:27:09 <reldred> Still missing rails over tunnel portals 😠
21:27:27 <reldred> And JGRPP has custom bridgeheads where OpenTTD does not
21:27:58 <reldred> Grf compatibility is fine, all the old goldies like NewStations still work
21:31:41 <housemd123123> it also makes me a bit disapointed that there isnt any airport mods to make runways modular.
21:33:20 <mmtunligit> no patch for it yet
21:34:12 <mmtunligit> though i do think it may be possible without touching the map array, id need to check to see if airports work like I think they do though
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21:40:01 <andythenorth> can we do 65k railtypes without touching the map array? 👀
21:41:05 <mmtunligit> think even if it didnt that PR would be closed as a "bad feature"
21:41:51 <ahyangyi> andythenorth: By renaming the map array?
21:42:20 <ahyangyi> So we just need to touch that was the map array, but no need to touch the map array that is no more.
21:43:55 <andythenorth> mmtunligit: good feature 🙂
21:44:05 <andythenorth> no more railtypes conflict
21:45:10 <ahyangyi> Make airports a special class of railtypes?
21:45:30 <mmtunligit> id be much more enthusiatic about breaking railtypes apart instead of simply having more
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21:45:55 <mmtunligit> and then you can save configuarations and put those in the dropdown
21:46:12 <mmtunligit> so you can pick gauge, electrification, etc independently
21:47:05 <ahyangyi> Time to build my standard gauge monorail
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21:47:35 <coobies> Monorail is a gauge. It's 0mm
21:47:37 <mmtunligit> i think thatd fall under geauge yeah
21:48:25 <ahyangyi> Monorail with third rail, but not a second rail?
21:48:59 <andythenorth> mmtunligit: just pre-compose 65k of them, and have a good search
21:48:59 <mmtunligit> electification: 3rd rail
21:48:59 <mmtunligit> and then monorail+ 3rd rail has a specific sprite associated with it
21:49:22 <andythenorth> what gauge is "metro" 😛
21:49:23 <mmtunligit> or something like that, youd need to tag special types
21:49:59 <mmtunligit> i dont think that matters
21:50:36 <andythenorth> it's all about FIRS railtypes anyway
21:50:47 <andythenorth> all those railtypes FIRS provides
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22:01:41 <mmtunligit> conveyor belt (goods) conveyor belt (parts)
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22:07:04 <andythenorth> FIRS has infected the whole game
22:09:48 <talltyler> Hmm? Looks normal to me
22:10:51 <mmtunligit> variable snow line height? looks interesting
22:13:30 <locosage> yeah, looks pretty cool
22:13:55 <talltyler> Any thoughts on saved item collections? I think we should merge so people can test and find any bugs to fix. mmtunligit has been good about fixing bugs. 🙂
22:15:13 <locosage> switch config to toml 🤭
22:16:41 <locosage> anything better for configs?
22:38:25 <peter1138> Oh, preview doesn't have other languages. Hmm.
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22:42:33 <_glx_> yeah only english, else font are a pain 🙂
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23:41:45 <peter1138> Yes, valid point, incorrect fix.
23:55:39 <peter1138> mmtunligit, but yes. That. Problem is it means some transitions can be skipped.
23:56:27 <mmtunligit> sorry what is this in reference to?
23:58:25 <mmtunligit> oh the snow line stuff
23:59:03 <mmtunligit> is transition skipping an issue?
23:59:57 <mmtunligit> i feel like as long as you dont have full snow and no snow next to each other its probably fine
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