IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2026-01-22
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00:03:00 <tabytac> Never thought about having a wavy snow line, it looks really great peter
00:29:44 <reldred> It looks so good though
00:30:35 <reldred> Also did your desert tweaks make it in yet? The noise modified desert placement? I know desert rocks missed 15.0 but it looked good when I tested it in nightlies
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04:49:53 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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08:51:25 <peter1138> Anyway, I guess I need an integer or fixed-point math version of something like perlin noise :/
09:14:37 <kuhnovic> For the snowline stuff?
09:22:49 <peter1138> Yes. I've done it now.
09:23:00 <peter1138> But probably not efficiently.
09:24:05 <kuhnovic> You better make sure it doesn't affect the savegame size
09:25:25 <peter1138> Not at all. If it did I wouldn't have to avoid floating point math.
09:26:16 <kuhnovic> Good, dp will be happy 😉
09:35:53 <ahyangyi> I think I know how you're doing it 😛
09:41:33 <peter1138> Whether it's efficient enough is another question.
09:46:10 <peter1138> Similar to my desert change, except because tropic zone is stored on the map at generation time, floating point math doesn't matter.
09:46:53 <peter1138> Well, only similarity is they both use perlin noise.
09:50:11 <peter1138> I don't think I could build on that. Would ruin it.
09:51:58 <reldred> That is fucking delightful peter
09:52:20 <reldred> when the hell did you get so tasteful
09:53:00 <reldred> (that is intended to be a compliment)
09:53:53 <peter1138> I like the game to do it for me instead of having to place objects, I guess? :)
09:54:07 <reldred> Bravo, my sentiments exactly
09:54:37 <reldred> I don't mind the object heavy gameplay style but it's not for me
09:55:32 <peter1138> I don't have the patience or creativity to do it.
09:56:19 <peter1138> I was hoping the slight variation would also help the situation where farm fields can't be placed if the generator settings result in snow at level 2.
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10:01:31 <peter1138> But when the snow line is so low, it won't even place farms. Hmm.
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10:02:24 <reldred> do some tweaks, let farm fields cover some of the lower transition levels so a light dusting doesn't nuke em?
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10:02:42 <andythenorth> diagonal rivers when? 😛
10:03:24 <reldred> or shift the dithering up slightly in z axis so it's not creeping down?
10:12:15 <LordAro> reldred: that'd be the easiest solution to the field issue imo
10:14:56 <peter1138> Well, for the latter, that simply means increasing the base snow line by 2 levels.
10:15:11 <peter1138> Which is simple and easy, but "I asked for 50% snow!"
10:16:34 <reldred> or we just do snowy fields
10:17:58 <andythenorth> open your photoshop
10:18:12 <andythenorth> also do FIRS snow while you're there 😛
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10:19:48 <ahyangyi> FIRS Basic Tropical Snow?
10:20:53 <reldred> andythenorth: Apparently CC works in Linux again in proton
10:21:03 <reldred> Dunno if I really want that smoke again though
10:21:36 <peter1138> Due to how the snow line mod newgrf works, it doesn't give nice smooth changes, only massive jumps.
10:22:52 <peter1138> Just let the game do it by itself, smoothly?
10:26:50 <peter1138> I think I had a patch for that.
10:27:12 <reldred> game doing it by itself would be nice
10:27:34 <reldred> but then you've got to deal with towns, the way they work by default is not snowline aware
10:28:28 <peter1138> Oh right, the snowy buildings are not just graphical variatons, they're separate buildings :o
10:29:44 <reldred> nobody in grf land deliberately uses seperate above/below ground in prop whatever it is though so if you changed how that works I don't think anyone would notice
10:30:20 <peter1138> I assume they use a varaction to test snow.
10:30:22 <andythenorth> hmm the mac build no longer starts, can't find a video driver
10:30:32 <andythenorth> probably I need to change my cmake flags
10:30:50 <peter1138> Now, is there a 1:1 mapping from snow to non-snow buildings...
10:31:19 <reldred> theres a grf on bananas that just recodes all the houses as varact2 snow detecting ones
10:32:01 <andythenorth> ```cmake .. -DCMAKE_OSX_ARCHITECTURES=arm64 -DVCPKG_TARGET_TRIPLET=arm64-osx -DCMAKE_TOOLCHAIN_FILE=../vcpkg/scripts/buildsystems/vcpkg.cmake -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release```
10:32:50 <andythenorth> hmm not many recent changes to `src/cmake`
10:34:23 <andythenorth> ``` Manually-specified variables were not used by the project:
10:34:23 <andythenorth> CMAKE_TOOLCHAIN_FILE```
10:35:03 <peter1138> Loading heightmaps could do with more options, infinite water edges is kinda important.
10:39:46 <peter1138> Using 16:16 fixed point math for now, that means x/y scaling supports values from -32768 to 32767. Enough for vanilla.
10:41:29 <peter1138> 24:8 might well be fine.
10:41:30 <reldred> Enough for jgrpp i'd wager in practical terms
10:42:09 <reldred> if you go 65536 you're limited to 4096 on the other axis in jgrpp
10:42:26 <reldred> i don't think anyone plays those sizes in any serious fashion
10:43:27 <peter1138> At 8:24 everything breaks, as expected :)
10:55:31 <LordAro> right, that's 35 HDDs, 22 SDDs & 9 NVMe drives all wiped and ready for "rehoming"
10:56:11 <andythenorth> you needed a bigger magnet 🙂
10:56:32 <peter1138> Hmm, I suppose the coordinate type could be different from the noise type.
10:57:32 <andythenorth> hmm so I _think_ cmake is failing to configure a macOS video driver
10:57:37 <andythenorth> I've updated vckpg
10:58:08 <andythenorth> possibly I need to update xcode / deps
11:07:08 <andythenorth> is there a cmake flag I need to specify macOS video driver?
11:07:27 <andythenorth> CMakeCache.txt seems to not have one, afaict
11:15:43 <peter1138> It's just looking for Cocoa. Have they removed that...
11:18:22 <andythenorth> evidence suggests yes
11:18:40 <andythenorth> the only recent change here is an OS and Xcode update
11:19:06 <andythenorth> I did also pull recent OpenTTD, but I see no commits that would affect the build
11:20:26 <andythenorth> googling suggests it might be I need a vcpkg flag, but I'm not keen to paste in random flags
11:30:12 <_glx_> That looks exactly like a recent bug report
11:31:14 <ahyangyi> Would a vcpkg flag help MacOS builds at all?
11:33:57 <peter1138> andythenorth helpfully tested a different version...
11:35:41 <_glx_> But updated OS and xcode since the test
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11:49:53 <squirejames> If memory serves, there was a "better snowline" newGRF that works with the variable snowline newGRF. I use them both myself. Gives a more graded change from grass to snow
11:51:58 <reldred> I've always just used the one built into the old opengfx+ landscape .grf
12:04:16 <peter1138> Still not smooth there.
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12:16:10 <_zephyris> What do you mean by not smooth?
12:17:01 <_zephyris> My recollection is that it changes snowline by 1, which gets "dithered" by the tile update loop
12:17:21 <peter1138> That doesn't really work :)
12:17:47 <andythenorth> peter1138: confirmed, I previously tested RCs, currently nightly does fail
12:17:53 <peter1138> Especially with different minutes per year setting.
12:20:16 <peter1138> Is it since a load of useless looking defines were removed...?
12:30:26 <andythenorth> I can't cleanly drop that commit, has later conflicts
12:41:42 <_zephyris> Re. Snow line, I see what you mean. Ideally you'd set a fractional snow line and have the graphics selected based on snowline plus pseudo random noise, or similar
12:41:50 <_zephyris> Presumably that's what you're thinking...
12:42:36 <_zephyris> Newgrf setting the snowline could trigger a tweened change over some time period
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13:44:40 <peter1138> Not really needed, if the commit before works and that one doesn't then file a bug about it.
13:49:05 <peter1138> (If you're lazy comment on the PR, not ideal but better than nothing.)
13:49:26 <andythenorth> meanwhile arctic lakes meanwhile arctic lakes
13:49:41 <andythenorth> also field-less farms I see
13:49:51 <andythenorth> maybe FIRS doesn't set fields for pigs
13:51:56 <peter1138> Partially snowy fields eh?
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13:55:17 <talltyler> Snowy fields would be nice
13:58:26 <vondpc> ~~farmville openttd edition~~
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14:30:54 <_zephyris> Snow overlay sprites
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14:32:16 <kuhnovic> And no snow under bridged, just to make things extra compilated
14:33:28 <ahyangyi> andythenorth: Pigs as working animals 🤔
14:34:28 <ahyangyi> "fields" actually being forests for truffle hunting, perhaps
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14:58:55 <peter1138> Nah, wind allows snow to be blown around.
14:59:04 <peter1138> Just to make things simpler :)
15:00:16 <peter1138> That also explains my noise stuff a bit ;)
15:08:05 <talltyler> Another thought, the Forest might benefit from snow-aware sprites so it can generate at any elevation. Sort of the opposite of a Farm.
15:08:20 <talltyler> If you're doing something similar with houses.
15:08:39 <peter1138> "Any" elevation is quite a game-play change.
15:08:48 <talltyler> (I know it's not similar behind the scenes, houses being separate IDs while Forests are the exact same sprite IDs but different per climate)
15:09:11 <rito12_51026> Snow under bridge would melt slower because of shade
15:09:30 <talltyler> Yeah, some sort of elevation requirement could be added to forests instead of simply looking for snow
15:09:54 <talltyler> But they are already available at any elevation if you set snow to 100% (at the expense of having any farms 🙂 )
15:14:08 <peter1138> Loading a save is... weird. The snow changes slowly from the old to the new form.
15:14:09 <talltyler> Are we waiting for anything else for 15.1? I can write a website post so we can release soon. 🙂
15:17:42 <peter1138> There's a couple more backports to do (I can do them later)
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15:44:04 <peter1138> I'm not sure it's "physically accurate" but... neither is the current way. :)
15:45:24 <_zephyris> How does it look with OGFX2?
15:46:32 <_zephyris> Doesn't quite work for me... Snowline is very defined IRL
15:46:32 <kuhnovic> The snow transitions look a lot better in OGFX2
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15:47:30 <tabytac> for something more "physically accurate" south facing slopes could have less snow than north facing slopes
15:48:49 <LordAro> global warming update?
15:54:53 <peter1138> tabytac, you're assuming a hemisphere there?
15:55:30 <peter1138> _zephyris, that is OpenGFX 2.
15:59:16 <rito12_51026> peter1138: Hemisphere setting in OGFX2?
16:17:58 <peter1138> Hmm, right, this isn't OGFX2, whoops.
16:19:53 <peter1138> Gradient snow textures? :o
16:20:09 <LordAro> variant snow textures?
16:20:45 <peter1138> Step 1 to step 2 is a big jump with OGFX2.
16:20:59 <peter1138> And then to step 3 as well.
16:27:22 <peter1138> Snow line height on corners instead of tiles, and then combinatorial explosion...
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16:53:13 <_zephyris> peter1138: Yup, that snow line is very defined. You're mostly seeing lack of snow on steep slopes...
16:53:34 <_zephyris> A slope direction might work a bit better?
16:53:40 <_zephyris> Or a random variation which is on a larger scale?
17:24:49 <ahyangyi> peter1138: Is it euphemism for the R-word?
17:27:24 <ahyangyi> Anyways, I just want to say "physically accurate" isn't something you should worry about.
17:54:34 <rito12_51026> Do I need Fluidsynth to compile?
18:47:23 <peter1138> Now that's done there's #15142 as well. Oops.
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19:20:07 <michi_cc[d]> anymore (or returns stupid values), that would explain it.
19:30:14 <michi_cc[d]> 10.10+ only, but we through out the other code anyway.
19:31:52 <Rubidium_> to be honest... we're not compiling for such old versions anyhow, so all the existing MacOSVersionIsAtLeast calls can be replaces with `true`
19:32:38 <michi_cc[d]> Yes, but a working function to query the os version isn't bad. (Even if the test in the cocoa driver could indeed go away).
19:35:46 <Rubidium_> definitely true, it's actually used for the crash log
19:53:56 <Rubidium_> michi_cc[d]: lets see whether it compiles. I have added a `ver` into first assignment though
19:54:29 <peter1138> andythenorth, are you doing a xarick?
19:54:40 <peter1138> Ah no, I was just scrolled up :-)
19:56:06 <michi_cc[d]> Rubidium_: See, told you it was not compile-tested 😛
20:11:54 <_glx_> ha yes we target at least 10.13
20:14:36 <peter1138> I guess I can't push to pr15142
20:18:02 <Rubidium_> why can't you? The PR suggest you're able. Did you use the pull/15142/head thingy?
20:24:14 <peter1138> IIRC you need to push to their repository, not pull/15142/head.
20:25:33 <Rubidium_> yeah you need to push to their remote. If you would've said yes, then I would have suggested that. But if you already did... then I wouldn't have a clue
20:36:09 <peter1138> Yeah, not permitted :)
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21:08:13 <housemd123123> ok so im starting this convo again. i was using JGR, and apparently NewStation shows missing textures. (the purple and black patterned textures)
21:13:17 <peter1138> purple and black pattern is not a missing texture, it's the NewGRF providing a placeholder itself.
21:14:17 <peter1138> Depending on which NewGRF it is, that's mostly like because you've somehow forced an 8bpp blitter but the author only cared about 32bpp graphics.
21:26:42 <housemd123123> how do i fix it?
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22:27:00 <peter1138> Annoyingly, I hit the "disable auto merge" button the Changelog PR just as it got to being merged.
22:27:04 <peter1138> Ah well, doesn't matter really :)
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22:45:35 <peter1138> 15:14 < talltyler> Are we waiting for anything else for 15.1? I can write a website post so we can release soon. 🙂
22:46:51 <talltyler> Sure, I’ll try to write something up tonight.
22:47:56 <talltyler> Should we backport 15146? As far as I’m concerned it’s a fix for my original PR, which was supposed to support heightmaps 😛
22:53:19 <peter1138> Well, it's not merged yet, so if it's changed to a Fix...?
23:47:12 <_glx_> it's nice they searched for similar issue first 🙂
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