IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2026-01-16
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00:51:20 <__abigail> _glx_: I promise I won't press the merge button again ❤️
00:54:42 <__abigail> Insert Bart Simpson writing "I WILL NOT PRESS THE MERGE BUTTON" on the blackboard
01:20:36 <reldred> Well that solves it, just merge her PR that’ll keep her from fucking with it 😛
01:23:11 <__abigail> reldred: Cheat code to getting your PRs merged instantly
01:23:11 <__abigail> Be fucking hopeless
01:23:29 <__abigail> I've learnt not to touch the buttons now
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07:39:44 <_zephyris> __abigail: Got there though, thanks for the fix!
07:40:22 <__abigail> Enjoy your single byte :p
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09:26:49 <peter1138> Does FIRS carry LVRY cargo?
09:27:56 <peter1138> Hmm, no, because FIRS is an industry set.
09:28:05 <peter1138> Does IH carry LVRY cargo?
09:36:26 <LordAro> we like things a certain way here
09:37:44 <peter1138> I updated my comment a little.
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09:42:35 <andythenorth> Does Iron Horse have ISR ground tiles?
09:42:54 <andythenorth> Was it FIRS that broke my railtypes?
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09:49:29 <LordAro> _jgr_: you know lots about the game's limitations. any thoughts on vehicle limits?
09:50:08 <peter1138> LordAro, I mean, I basically always include a fullstop and nobody tells me not to.
09:50:20 <LordAro> peter1138: that's why i was so vague about it :p
09:51:43 <LordAro> but you're quite right, useless comment
09:52:14 <LordAro> Maybe I found it more noticable because of the short commit messages
09:53:13 <_jgr_> The vehicle limit is 10,000 in my branch, and I've got an issue where someone is asking me to increase it from that
09:54:19 <_jgr_> The people who want 10,000 vehicles are generally not the same as the people who want to play with 15 AIs, so I don't worry too much about multiplying all the numbers together
09:54:28 <peter1138> Oh, it's not LVRY. It's LVPT :o
09:54:42 <LordAro> replace all integers with mpz_t
09:56:10 <_jgr_> I've got some adjustments to the vehicle pool and other things to mitigate the performance issues of having very large numbers of them though
09:57:45 <peter1138> I'm not really worried about that, the upper limit is not a default value anyway.
09:57:47 <andythenorth> Maybe I should add LVRY
09:58:00 <andythenorth> For railtype subtype refits
09:58:12 <peter1138> Players can tweak their limits to make the game unplayable if they wish. As long as it doesn't crash...
09:58:27 <peter1138> Look at everything Xarick does :p
09:58:59 <LordAro> 2spf is perfectly playable
09:59:00 <_jgr_> As long as you don't actually run out of memory crashing isn't an issue
09:59:50 <andythenorth> I am seriously comsidering using cargo subtypes for something though
10:00:12 <andythenorth> Likely regrettable
10:16:05 <peter1138> Americans pronouncing chassis with a hard ch... :o
10:17:28 <andythenorth> Sheddar Shees though?
10:18:27 <peter1138> Okay, what's that one?
10:19:05 <LordAro> basically a homophone of Greg
11:02:58 <mnhebi> _jgr_: You mean to tell me the average person is not rocking 256gb of DDR5 menory?
11:03:30 <mnhebi> There goes my vibe coded voxel game.
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11:11:24 <alfagamma7> This guy here is rich
11:15:49 <LordAro> at this point i have no memory of where that meme came from
11:16:18 <ahyangyi> because memory is too expensive?
11:16:34 <andythenorth> errors in coffee
11:16:44 <andythenorth> needed to take a child to minor injuries clinic
11:17:18 <peter1138> LordAro, IIRC some rando came in and said we should use it for modelling things, or something.
11:17:40 <andythenorth> grf in xml when?
11:18:12 <ahyangyi> <grf> ...(plain text nfo)... </grf>
11:21:06 <reldred> A native voxel renderer for vehicles would be kinda fun, real C&C2 vibes. Ofcourse folks would need to make voxel art that doesn’t look like hot garbage first but oh well.
11:22:30 <ahyangyi> will diagonal wagons be automatically stretched? 😛
11:23:19 <__abigail> ahyangyi: NewNewGRF: Plain text inside <grf> tags that are interpreted by ChatGPT to generate GRFs
11:44:51 <mnhebi> LordAro: Voxels, with no floats!
12:07:37 <andythenorth> oh we did those jokes already, sorry
13:32:56 <ahyangyi> ~~Let's repeat the joke~~
13:42:15 <mnhebi> andythenorth: I do not foresee that joke going old anytime soon
13:45:30 <mnhebi> We doing VibeArt, VibeCode...even VibeMilitaryIntelligence!
13:45:57 <mnhebi> I just wonder...when is it time for VibePolitician
13:48:48 <ahyangyi> That's basically politician.
13:50:20 <mnhebi> You matching my...vibes
13:50:28 <mnhebi> :gui_score_leaderboards:
14:16:58 <andythenorth> hmm what to do with an old PSU?
14:17:15 <andythenorth> mostly, anything of any reusable value, goes on the street outside my house
14:17:17 <andythenorth> and someone takes it
14:17:51 <andythenorth> but this PSU is questionable reliability
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14:46:24 <belajalilija> What about aiBase :thinkies:
14:47:16 <rito12_51026> there's no such emoji 🙁
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14:51:42 <emperorjake> AI could do better than zBase
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15:02:51 <mnhebi> emperorjake: Last time I tried getting an AI to do isometric art the results were not encouraging
15:03:35 <mnhebi> Especially since they cannot abide by image size restrictions..
15:03:57 <squirejames> LordAro: "oregano"
15:05:10 <squirejames> reldred: Oddly I was thinking in bed last night, as I do sometimes, about whether Red Alert 2 et al would be a good source of buildings for a newGRF
15:10:53 <_zephyris> AI image generation can't do technical requirements, without very careful (eg. controlnet) wrangling. But you can get it there...
15:11:28 <_zephyris> Best AI results I've had are training a pixel art ESRGAN
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15:17:39 <definitelynotcheese_> _zephyris: Cozy graphic set when?
15:18:04 <_zephyris> That's original graphics, with 4x upscaling
15:18:53 <definitelynotcheese_> Definitely better than abase
15:19:06 <_zephyris> Everything is better than abase
15:19:44 <_zephyris> At least the GUI's consistent in zbase
15:20:31 <peter1138> "Algorithmic scaling with statistical heuristics"
15:21:59 <squirejames> I've used AI upscaling on textures for 3d models (admittedly they were textures from the 90s that had clearly been downsized before, a fair bit of artifacting). The results can be good. And you're only "entrusting" the AI with upscaling, rather than anything creative. Keep it simple, it can do it
15:30:00 <_zephyris> With custom training they ESRGAN can get quite good, that was trained on 4x downscaled manually curated pixel art + existing 1x and 4x zoom OpenGFX2 sprites...
15:30:14 <_zephyris> But no clue about palettes etc
15:30:27 <definitelynotcheese_> Opengfx has 4x zoom?
15:31:35 <definitelynotcheese_> So it does
15:31:56 <_zephyris> It has some, it's WIP
15:32:49 <peter1138> Probably stalled because certain devs have strong anti-AI stance.
15:33:26 <peter1138> The shading on that one looks quite odd, tbh.
15:34:00 <definitelynotcheese_> I wonder why they dont want ai for a free game
15:34:04 <peter1138> Ambient occlusion looks backwards.
15:34:12 <definitelynotcheese_> They're not taking jobs
15:34:27 <_zephyris> The shading is deliberately 'backwards'
15:39:59 <_zephyris> Pillow shading vs enhancing edges. But, current shading is optimised for 1x rather than 4x (you're seeing the exact shading used at 1x, just 4x larger)
15:41:06 <definitelynotcheese_> Now i see
15:42:13 <peter1138> Randomly reading reddit and some guy complaining about spare tyres... and it's one of us :o
15:43:40 <peter1138> It looks very wierd at 4x (and perhaps 2x) though
15:47:54 <_zephyris> Works in context, you haven't complained about the 1x before 😉
15:53:38 <belajalilija> definitelynotcheese_: Because it’s trash
16:03:08 <peter1138> _zephyris, likely because at 1x the 'amount' to apply is different to 4x.
16:03:58 <_zephyris> Can be tweaked, but need some 4x buildings drawn to find that out!
16:04:17 <peter1138> e.g. at 1x some shading might affects 2 pixels, if that's scaled up it affects 8 pixels, but for the effect to look best, it might need to only affect 2 pixels still.
16:08:59 <_zephyris> Yup, I'm wondering if a log(scale) or scale^0.5 offset scaling might work better
16:16:23 <peter1138> ^0.5 is a scary idea :)
16:18:37 <_zephyris> Should think before I speak 🙂
16:19:44 <ahyangyi> The formula doesn't need to make sense asymptotically, it just needs to make sense for 1x and 4x 😛
16:19:58 <ahyangyi> That said, perhaps all formulas are linear anyways
16:20:14 <ahyangyi> Since there are just two data points.
16:29:34 <andythenorth> I remain surprised that AI pixel art is so scant
16:29:51 <andythenorth> I found a plausible looking pixel avatar generator the other day
16:30:32 <andythenorth> all I've done is train my brain to make pixel patterns, in a wildly small data space
16:30:45 <andythenorth> then my brain puts in a bit of random seed from time to time
16:31:19 <andythenorth> I tried writing procedural pixel art more than 10 years ago
16:31:29 <andythenorth> it was promising, but quite sterile
16:31:37 <andythenorth> like procedural soundtracks for games
16:35:16 <peter1138> andythenorth, nobody wants pixel art porn.
16:38:14 <_zephyris> Image generation as slop vs image generation with precise technical requirements - the latter not so much
16:58:05 <andythenorth> _zephyris: interesting, I can't see it working for TTD style
16:58:15 <_zephyris> Can't do the isometric
16:58:24 <andythenorth> looks plausible for e.g. text adventures, games that need 500 different inventory sprites
16:58:47 <_zephyris> Well, not quite true, with various controlnets I've managed some isometric stuff
16:59:17 <_zephyris> But if you're manually setting shape, plus problems with consistent colour palette, lighting, shading style, it's not worth it
17:04:34 <ahyangyi> It's annoying that it makes four examples for the "tiling" feature but none of them is an isometric view
17:05:44 <ahyangyi> Anyways, looks like still a long way from generating a set of tiling ground tiles with slopes and snow lines.
17:20:53 * peter1138 wonders if some of the other cargo id, cargo bitnum and cargo translation table stuff can be ignored no
17:27:20 <rito12_51026> Is there any simple way to download specific grfs through command line?
17:27:20 <rito12_51026> The id for `content select` is not stable, isn't it?
17:29:21 <andythenorth> Railtype Construction Kit?
17:32:24 <peter1138> Yeah, I can make PBI work by faking a translation table, but because it's before GRFv7, it also doesn't use the translation table is all places that later versions do.
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17:42:25 <andythenorth> did the regression tests go red?
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20:14:56 <Rubidium> I'm not seeing a ginormous oops
20:15:21 <Rubidium> though there are a lot of cacti there
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22:18:17 <peter1138> I'm going to assume that that'll mess things up for me :p
22:19:53 <peter1138> I mean, I'm happy to have the the scale "too large" for a smaller window, because I don't see a problem with closing the game by clicking on the window title's close button, instead of needing to press the in-game exit game button.
22:22:28 <_zephyris> Perhaps, but does seem a bit clumsy to allow UI breaking settings to be set
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22:47:26 <peter1138> Alternative idea: if a window is too large to fit, moving the mouse to the edge should move the window around... some how :p
22:48:44 <Rubidium> really alternative idea: if the window is too large to fit, the screen should be made larger :D
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