IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2025-07-02
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00:57:14 <yiffgirl> okay so here's my current wishlist
00:57:14 <yiffgirl> accurate cargodist payment
00:57:14 <yiffgirl> jgrpp order preview polygons
00:57:18 <yiffgirl> bridge / tunnel signalling
00:57:20 <yiffgirl> stations under bridges
00:57:26 <yiffgirl> road-connected towns
00:57:28 <yiffgirl> which of these are ~~possible~~ not being worked on currently
00:57:52 <yiffgirl> oh, does irc bridge the formatting? "possible" is struck out, it's a joke.
01:08:00 <talltyler> yiffgirl: Sorry I buried your question under GitHub spam 😛
01:08:39 <talltyler> Of those, stations under bridges seems like the most logical place to start, as it’s the simplest and already exists in JGRPP so you have a reference. 🙂
01:10:49 <yiffgirl> most of them do exist in some form already. good to hear stations under bridges are simple though, i'll take a look
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02:25:26 <yiffgirl> i'm doing a local clone now to see if maybe it's just github messing up
02:34:47 <yiffgirl> ...no, a local clone also doesn't show this commit on the english.txt log. what does this mean?
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04:24:29 <yiffgirl> [the option to allow regardless of clearance probably isn't a good fit for vanilla, so i'm skipping that part]
04:42:53 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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06:08:17 <dwfreed> yiffgirl: it only shows if I give 'git log' the '--follow' flag
06:13:05 <dwfreed> I suspect what it is is that what was src/lang/english.txt at that commit is not the file that is src/lang/english.txt today, as in it took a different rename path
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07:21:10 <peter1138[d]> yiffgirl: > accurate cargodist payment
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07:21:36 <andythenorth> we should move it all to invoice discounting then later reconciliation
07:21:46 <peter1138[d]> To do that you need the game to be able to time travel into the future to know where and when the cargo will finally be delivered, if at all.
07:21:47 <andythenorth> or deposit, then balance on 30 days
07:21:55 <peter1138[d]> That... was a failed reply 😦
07:23:44 <peter1138[d]> No payment until the final delivery sounds logical, but means storing potentially vast amount of movement information.
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07:40:53 <peter1138[d]> reldred: Yes, but the overhead, both CPU and RAM, of storing more and more things adds up.
07:41:27 <reldred> wensimehrp: Yeah they’re expensive here. And generally only driven by absolute wankers since we have far better trucks on the market to begin with.
07:42:10 <reldred> And I’m in Queensland now which is basically our version of Texas and Florida combined so you know, plenty of them around.
07:42:35 <reldred> peter1138[d]: Time to limit maps back to 256x256 again then.
07:43:15 <reldred> You’d hate it here Peter. Saw my first cycling lane today, had to drive 6-7km out of the city before I found it.
07:43:32 <reldred> To say this city is ‘car centric’ would be an understatement.
07:43:40 <reldred> Very very walkable however
07:43:51 <wensimehrp> my city bought a whole railroad line and turned that into a cycling path
07:43:59 <peter1138[d]> I'm a lycra-clad cyclist, you think I use cycle lanes...?
07:44:36 <reldred> peter1138[d]: I’ve yet to even see one in person either. From a friend who was here for a bit and had her bike shipped over she gave up after a week.
07:44:56 <peter1138[d]> Probably not as bad as the US still 🙂
07:45:28 <reldred> That said the building has a bike locker in the basement that’s well used so I dunno, maybe they move and migrate in secret
07:45:47 <reldred> wensimehrp: Legit one of the nicest cities in Australia to drive in tbh.
07:45:55 <peter1138[d]> Anyway, the little strips painted on the road are generally referred to as murder strips, their only purpose is to make drivers think it's perfectly fine to close-pass at 30cm because paint said so.
07:46:05 <wensimehrp> heh there are bike paths everywhere in Wenzhou
07:46:28 <peter1138[d]> And the other sort is the "shared use" path which is also fecking useless, and not suitable for cyclists who average above 10mph, i.e. nearly all of them.
07:46:32 <wensimehrp> wensimehrp: they are for some 3¥/hr
07:47:29 <peter1138[d]> Some places do have real useful cycle paths, that are good for getting normal people out on bikes, but not around here.
07:47:47 <wensimehrp> bike paths in wenzhou are not very friendly for cyclists
07:47:58 <wensimehrp> those are officially for "anything that is not a car"
07:48:13 <reldred> I’m gonna get one of those silly little e-scooters at some point.
07:48:14 <wensimehrp> which includes battery powered motercycles
07:48:48 <reldred> Since my commute via walking or scooter is about two-three kilometers of river side boardwalks.
07:49:06 <reldred> wensimehrp: Nah if I ride one of those on the boardwalk the police will actually just shoot me.
07:49:36 <peter1138[d]> Stupid that the e-scooters are still illegal here, unless you're using one of the schemes where you have to pay to hire one temporarily. Fucking stupid.
07:50:06 <wensimehrp> I'll take that as a 5000¥
07:50:06 <wensimehrp> which is a bit over 1000 aud
07:50:19 <reldred> peter1138[d]: Yeah was like that here in Australia too, the hire operators just sprung up and illegally operated them and then asked permission afterwards.
07:50:33 <reldred> In qld they got legalised.
07:51:10 <reldred> In some other states they’re still illegal but the police have been formally told to not harass people using their own so long as they’re not actively being a pest.
07:52:04 <wensimehrp> cars are expensive
07:52:06 <reldred> Apparently here most of the hire operator ones end up in the Brisbane river
07:52:25 <reldred> wensimehrp: I know, I’m looking at buying a new one soon.
07:52:35 <wensimehrp> I do wonder why lots of people in China chose to own a scooter thingy rather than buying a car even if they do have the money and conditions to buy one
07:52:37 <reldred> 33yr old Volvo doesn’t cut the mustard for this job
07:53:00 <reldred> wensimehrp: It’s very much an Asian thing I’ve noticed
07:53:07 <reldred> Y’all love your mopeds
07:53:23 <reldred> Thailand has billions of them
07:53:27 <wensimehrp> yeah, lots of motorcycles in southeastern Asian countries
07:53:49 <reldred> Eh, if they do the job.
07:54:11 <wensimehrp> well those machines already sorta replaces the local bus system
07:54:30 <reldred> Perfect for tight dense streets and alleys too
07:54:48 <reldred> Parking places are at a premium in apartments/etc
07:56:22 <wensimehrp> Beijing has a policy to limit vehicle travel based on license plate number
07:56:59 <wensimehrp> afaik no north american cities have similar policies
07:57:18 <reldred> Yeah no the yanks would riot
07:57:22 <wensimehrp> beijing was not designed for cars, so
07:58:07 <reldred> I’ve got fucked knees and ankles, and the doc reckons I’ve got rheumatoid arthritis, I’m unapologetically car pilled.
07:58:25 <wensimehrp> ok my plane is in 20 mins I gotta go
07:58:28 <reldred> That said, my next car is going to be a cute little hatchback with a three cylinder engine
07:58:54 <reldred> (And all wheel drive and a big stinking turbo)
07:59:59 <peter1138[d]> Heh, I guess cargo payments probably get pretty messy if you load a train up, and then switch its wagons to a different lead locomotive in a depot before completing the final destination.
08:00:06 <peter1138[d]> WHY IS IT 9AM ALREADY.
08:00:25 <reldred> You did go to sleep right Peter?
08:02:14 <reldred> I’ve not been sleeping well since I got here.
08:02:25 <peter1138[d]> We need universal basic income, so that I can give up real work and work on OpenTTD full time.
08:02:32 <reldred> stupid brain meat won’t shut up.
08:02:39 <reldred> peter1138[d]: that would be nice
08:03:03 <reldred> and some actual social housing would be nice as well, we don’t really have that anymore.
08:04:00 <peter1138[d]> It's all Thatcher's fault.
08:04:06 <peter1138[d]> Even outside the UK.
08:04:20 <reldred> I do enjoy the new city and the new job and the financial freedom it’s going to give me but I do somewhat resent that I’m kinda forced to do this so I can afford to put my mum up somewhere nice after dad kicks the bucket.
08:04:49 <peter1138[d]> Right-to-buy was such a bad idea.
08:08:48 <reldred> Had a sit in one yesterday. Surprisingly decent amount of boot space if you fold the utterly pointless rear seats down
08:08:52 <peter1138[d]> Where did my coffee go?
08:09:13 <reldred> I only got half way through mine this morning. I think it’s still in the cards
08:09:33 <peter1138[d]> Oh. I'd filled the kettle and put that on to boil. Instead of using the remaining coffee in the pot...
08:09:52 <reldred> The kettle is so far the only appliance I’ve unboxed
08:10:22 <reldred> The American mind cannot comprehend
08:10:24 <peter1138[d]> yiffgirl: This list is faulty. It's missing cargodest.
08:10:39 <peter1138[d]> They have kettles. Stove-top kettles.
08:11:13 <reldred> then why do they use the microwave the heathens
08:11:57 <peter1138[d]> We used to use the whistling aluminium camping kettles back in the day (when camping)... sure, light weight, but aluminium seems a bad idea now...
08:12:47 <peter1138[d]> reldred: Because they're heathens.
08:13:10 <reldred> Mm I usually just used a cheap steel pot over a hobo stove
08:13:12 <peter1138[d]> Truely fucking weird. It IS more efficient to do that, but fucking weird.
08:13:44 <reldred> I mean yeah the microwave is designed specifically to excite water molecules to create heat but still
08:14:17 <reldred> sigh, what should I have for dinner
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08:24:42 <peter1138[d]> Can we remove the `CompanyID`/`Owner` thing?
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09:05:13 <belajalilija> yiffgirl: Custom company colours and no vehicle intro randomisation too
09:48:00 <peter1138[d]> Game Developers: NewGRF signals, Content Authors: eyecandy tiles!
09:58:18 <reldred> Well chop chop, give us a way to decorate the unused diagonal slope half of a tile with a rail on it 😛
09:59:35 <andythenorth> I'd retitle that meme
09:59:48 <andythenorth> business analyst : engineer
10:00:06 <andythenorth> although it probably works just fine as engineer : business analyst
10:00:11 <andythenorth> or even just A : B
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10:11:00 <peter1138[d]> reldred: Remove NewGRF objects did you say?
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10:11:43 <wensimehrp> wensimehrp: Almost missed it
10:13:28 <peter1138[d]> objects -> decorations -> make adaptable to any tile -> eye candy -> everyone happy -> lolz -> will never happen.
10:13:57 <_jgr_> yiffgirl: Non-vanilla strings were later moved to src/lang/extra
10:29:44 <andythenorth> 57 million railtypes to have concrete ground or mud
10:38:23 <reldred> I like how sets like JP+ Tracks have turned out, you can definitely pare it back quite nicely for a vanilla+ experience with Horse or NARS, but proper tile decor would solve a lot of problems.
10:38:43 <reldred> And I’m sure it’ll then get misused for other nefarious purposes but eh, that’s the game.
10:56:49 <talltyler> yiffgirl: Sounds like you're already taking this approach, but for vanilla we'll only want stations that fit properly under bridges, with no setting to enable or disable the feature. Stuff in vanilla needs to "just work" 🙂
10:58:02 <peter1138[d]> Did the property for minimal height per tile get updated to go beyond 8?
10:58:12 <_jgr_> Those are the main ones, there are some other bug-fixes, and others about bridge pillars, etc
10:58:52 <_jgr_> yiffgirl: Those are the main ones, there are some other bug-fixes, and others about bridge pillars, etc
10:59:10 <peter1138[d]> > Date: Fri Feb 08 2019 18:30:31 GMT+0000 (Greenwich Mean Time)
10:59:10 <peter1138[d]> > Change: Allow locks under bridges (WIP, sprite order glitches)
11:13:29 <talltyler> What if you bridge over a different part of the lock? That's the worst-case scenario. Or if you're two height levels above that tile?
11:14:19 <talltyler> Also, with the infrequency I use locks in the game...this might be the lowest bang-for-your-buck for bridge support 😛
11:15:23 <peter1138[d]> It doesn't matter which part, likely because the BB is so tall.
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11:20:24 <gwyd4016> Does it need to be that tall?
11:22:37 <peter1138[d]> Probably not, the height happens to be the same as a depot's BB height.
11:25:18 <peter1138[d]> Most of these things are "original", and would've certainly not been touched since the introduction of bounding box display.
11:26:34 <peter1138[d]> However, pretty sure it is the old 3-sprite issue.
11:34:41 <peter1138[d]> Can probably forgive this one...
11:35:29 <talltyler> That seems like an unsafe place to build a lock even if you fixed the bridge bounding boxes 🙂
11:35:47 <talltyler> We should limit ship length to 8/8 😛
11:37:21 <peter1138[d]> Yes, probably the lower tile needs a minimal height applied.
11:59:16 <andythenorth> talltyler: but using units of 16px though 😛
12:00:02 <andythenorth> ship draft, ship air draft?
12:06:12 <peter1138[d]> talltyler: this is racist
12:22:41 <talltyler> Huh, wonder why I set that restriction
12:26:31 <peter1138[d]> Well, you wanted it to fit in with the theme, I think 🙂
12:27:19 <peter1138[d]> Might also be climate behaviour differences?
12:28:04 <peter1138[d]> Is this... ignorable?
12:29:14 <peter1138[d]> Bah, I can't have a class that implements an interface with two different types, because different return types is not a valid overload :/
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13:12:33 <talltyler> There should be pillars there, right? So it looks the same no matter the bridge type?
13:14:35 <peter1138[d]> They are there. Behind the lock walls.
13:15:12 <talltyler> It doesn't bother me that much, but I foresee bug reports if we merge it 🙂
13:15:46 <talltyler> Could the bounding boxes be moved inwards, or would they clip wide ships?
13:15:49 <peter1138[d]> Uh oh. You should see the crap people do with overlapping tiles and they give a shit.
13:16:09 <talltyler> Overlapping tiles aren't officially supported, they annoy me too
13:17:17 <talltyler> Well, we don't forcibly clip them at the tile bounds 😉
13:17:24 <peter1138[d]> I considered it.
13:18:45 <talltyler> I remember seeing discussion, or maybe even a screenshot of that 🙂
13:22:41 <talltyler> They seem to be mostly used for "underground" railways on tiles that can't otherwise be covered, mostly tunnel portals, rail tiles with curves/junctions/signals.
13:22:41 <talltyler> If we added NotGroundTypes as an underlay for all tiles (finding new space in the map array for all tile types), we could consider allowing these to be instead drawn as overlays at the tile "ceiling" to cover buried tiles.
13:28:16 <talltyler> Yeah, it's still a hack, isn't it...
13:30:45 <andythenorth> then underground gets more interesting
13:31:01 <andythenorth> just making tube trains to nerf the difficulty of building in towns....dull
13:31:38 <andythenorth> this should be an oxygen pipeline, not trucks
13:31:42 <andythenorth> iron-pipe.grf? 😛
15:12:59 <mnhebi> yeah wheres our pipes and conveyor belts support so we can compete with voxel tycoon that might complete...I dunno, in 2050?
15:13:16 <talltyler> It'll be done before OpenTTD 🙂
15:13:29 <talltyler> (because we will continue working on OpenTTD for the rest of our lives)
15:14:23 <talltyler> If the last decade is anything to go by, maybe
15:14:39 <talltyler> I guess many devs have come and gone
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15:29:53 <yiffgirl> peter1138[d]: hm, that would be a subgoal of accurate cargodist payments, wouldn't it?
15:30:34 <yiffgirl> belajalilija: isn't that in already?
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15:32:23 <peter1138[d]> yiffgirl: I would... not imagine so.
15:37:16 <belajalilija> yiffgirl: Neither are, but which are you asking about?
15:44:44 <belajalilija> My main issue is that one year’s vehicles been be introduced before another
15:44:51 <belajalilija> Mog so much the randomisation itself
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16:33:52 <tabytac> belajalilija: thats due to the vehicle previews that get offered and not the randomisation.
16:38:02 <tabytac> peter1138[d]: apart from adding flags to only allow changing the setting for newgames (which to me sounds like a much better solution than making a new function to deal with the differeing intro_dates), is there anything else that needs doing to #14018?
16:42:32 <tabytac> peter1138[d]: > The main and only usecase I could see for changing midgame is somebody finding out the randomisation midgame and wanting to turn it off for that save and then keeping it off.
16:42:32 <tabytac> > I don't really ever see anyone wanting to turn it back on, if that's the choice they have already made.
16:42:32 <tabytac> > But I don't see that being feasible without making a new function which for this one small setting, seems over the top.
16:42:32 <tabytac> > Having it being new game only seems to be a good compromise.
16:42:34 <tabytac> from what i said in april
17:15:14 <gwyd4016> mnhebi: They will never compete with TTD because they don't have funny manager faces
17:20:56 <peter1138[d]> talltyler: Not easily, I almost turned that into a huge side-quest :/
17:25:54 <talltyler> I vote not to worry about it. Locks are rarely used and usually not in very cramped areas. Stations under bridges make much more sense since stations are often near towns, where you want bridges over tracks. 🙂
17:28:40 <peter1138[d]> Does that mean "don't do it", or "do it but don't worry about sprite sorting"?
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17:52:32 <_glx_> remappable properties are JGRPP only
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17:58:54 <yiffgirl> ohhh ok. completely irrelevant then, good to know
18:01:46 <yiffgirl> oh and the documentation is jgr only too
18:10:45 <talltyler> peter1138[d]: I’ve you’ve already written the whole thing, I’ll review a PR, but the whole feature might not be worth spending much time on, in my opinion. I certainly wouldn’t tell you “don’t do it” but that’s what I meant more than “don’t worry about sprite sorting.” 🙂
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19:56:26 <tony_pixel> gwyd4016: That's the OpenTTD analog of what people meant by "What Overwatch will never have"
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20:52:05 <peter1138[d]> talltyler: I started it 6 years ago 😉
20:52:40 <peter1138[d]> But we're talking a tiny bit of a general "why actually can't we have bridges over things?" plan...
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22:38:04 <yiffgirl> seems like `ResetCustomStations` was removed at some point. hmm
22:42:50 <yiffgirl> don't think i've ever used git bisect so much before now
22:44:45 <yiffgirl> huh, it was removed completely in `047497734b`. does that mean the changes to it don't need to be picked?
22:47:43 <talltyler> When you’re upstreaming it’s often best to implement from scratch rather than try to pick commits 🙂
22:48:17 <talltyler> The existing implementation can be a helpful reference and inspiration but vanilla and JGRPP have diverged quite a bit, as I’m sure you’re finding out
22:48:24 <_glx_> even more when the feature is super old 🙂
22:52:36 <_jgr_> I'm fairly sure that change is removed in later commits anyway
22:53:07 <_jgr_> Not worth bothering with when the thing it is changing is no longer relevant
23:02:28 <yiffgirl> talltyler: oh? if that's the case it would certainly make things easier, i just didn't want to erase jgr's credit
23:02:54 <_jgr_> I'm not precious about the author field in commits really
23:04:20 <_jgr_> TBH, you may find it easier to just look at the current state of my branch than go through the history
23:07:31 <_jgr_> In any case at can have a look over things in due course if that would be helpful
continue to next day ⏵
