IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2025-03-08
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01:50:14 <wensimehrp> It turns out to be the GRF's problem. There is an extra `{STRING}` control character character in the lang file
01:50:55 <wensimehrp> but it doesn't show (invalid parameter) in older versions
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02:37:30 <_glx_> it was just luck if it looked fine in older versions
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04:39:01 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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05:59:46 <ahyangyi> ahyangyi: Asking again 😛
06:05:57 <ahyangyi> Considering filing a feature request / bug report, but I think I should ask here first.
06:34:00 <pickpacket> ahyangyi: I would assume that the restrictions are the same as for rail, as that's logical. I don't quite understand how you mean that you'd like it to work. Can you show a screenshot (with another building type that works the way you want the station to) or sketch to explain?
06:49:16 <ahyangyi> Hence I ask about non-track stations, such as this:
06:49:37 <ahyangyi> (this is the grain silo from "FIRS and CHIPS style objects")
06:50:40 <ahyangyi> There is a similar grain silo in CHIPS stations, which cannot be built on the same sloping tile
06:51:13 <ahyangyi> As you can see, these "stations" have no tracks at all, and the "same restrictions as for rail" does not make sense for these tiles.
06:53:41 <reldred> God this would be great to see non track tiles lose this restriction
06:53:53 <reldred> Would make building some of my station designs a lot lot easier
06:54:06 <reldred> I usually just have to find an appropriate object instead
07:28:15 <andythenorth> last demo I saw of a patch was years ago
07:28:24 <andythenorth> but trains disconnect
07:29:33 <andythenorth> if you build a station tile with rail, with track bits on the edge connecting to the non-track tile
07:29:46 <andythenorth> that might be misremembered though
08:01:13 <wensimehrp> ahyangyi: Wow font
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08:03:50 <_rei4122> xarick: Why did aaahogex lose profit?
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09:37:05 <xarick> _rei4122: hi! If I recall, that game had infrastructure maintenance costs enabled. AAAHogEx attempted aircraft and went negative since then and couldn't recover.
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09:43:26 <Guest10899> Where do I go, inside or outside IRC, to learn about using game scripts in OpenTTD?
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10:06:10 <peter1138> Yeah, that string error was always there before, just there was no text added that would let you know. There always was a console log message generated, but I guess nobody looks at that.
10:11:50 <peter1138> Hmm, doesn't appear in game, only in the actual OS console window. Which on Windows is generally completely hidden.
10:17:42 <peter1138> Must not side-quest...
10:26:17 <_zephyris> What are you thinking about side-questing?
10:27:52 <xarick> #13763 is already fixed
10:36:54 <xarick> 13751 fixes the human side
10:37:47 <reldred> side quest desert rocks plz
10:39:38 <peter1138> Yeah, the ClearGround system doesn't really work well for mixing things up.
10:40:11 <peter1138> Snow was moved to its own bit, which is why CLEAR_SNOW isn't needed.
10:40:26 <peter1138> Maybe we need to move Desert to its own bit, so CLEAR_DESERT isn't needed.
10:40:54 <peter1138> What about rocky farm fields? :p
10:41:25 <peter1138> Yeah, for simplicity I would use a different bit from snow, otherwise we have to check the climate type every time.
10:41:52 <reldred> Getting away from climate specific stuff would open up interesting options in the future
10:42:07 <peter1138> What if ClearGround was actually a bit mask...
10:42:17 <peter1138> rough, rocks, field, snow, desert.
10:43:00 <reldred> sigh, I was going to do a tonne of 3d printing this weekend but my A1 has eaten another nozzle
10:43:45 <xarick> 13240 fixes it for AIs
10:45:25 <peter1138> Uh oh, smoke alarm is chirping.
10:49:53 <reldred> be cool to untether all climate features from the climates themselves. arctic/tropic/temperate grass
10:50:06 <peter1138> Oh, might be the CO alarm.
10:50:56 <reldred> nearly got myself with carbon monoxide poisoning once
10:53:58 <peter1138> The only time that alarm went off is when the door on the grill got closed by mistake.
10:54:07 <peter1138> Did it's job I guess.
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11:31:30 <pickpacket> ahyangyi, reldred, andythenorth: so what we're looking
11:31:52 <pickpacket> for is a sort of tile that is a station but not a station?
11:35:31 <peter1138> Right, is it... get the trike out time?
11:37:08 <pickpacket> peter1138: was there ever a put it away time?
11:37:10 <reldred> pickpacket: well we already have those, they're non track station tiles, action 0 prop 15, what ahyangyi (and I) would like is for those tiles to not be constrained by the normal limitations on slope orientation, etc.
11:38:22 <peter1138> Track pieces are not allowed to end on a foundation edge.
11:38:46 <peter1138> Argument is that non-track tiles don't matter.
11:38:58 <reldred> I mean, I'd like them not to matter
11:39:03 <reldred> I don't always get what I want
11:39:10 <peter1138> Except when station NewGRFs are updated/changed, and then that tile becomes a track tile.
11:39:39 <peter1138> Other conditions: we don't know that's a non-track tile until it's built.
11:40:14 <peter1138> (It can be the result of a callback, so may not be the same every time)
11:42:25 <reldred> I thought our approach to people doing silly things like that is to take the player who caused said issue out the back and beat them
11:44:43 <peter1138> First one is a bit "don't care"
11:44:47 <peter1138> The second one is a problem.
11:45:41 <peter1138> Meh, probably not insurmountable.
11:46:21 <peter1138> But I'm in the middle of a different side-quest that I wasn't going to side-quest :S
11:51:38 <reldred> peter1138: understandable
11:52:02 <_glx_> Don't forget stations have a fallback mechanism in case GRF is removed
11:52:36 <peter1138> That was my first case listed above :)
11:53:55 <peter1138> Actually, given the non-track tile state is stored on the map now, we could set it if the slope/foundation would be invalid.
11:55:06 <peter1138> What about fixing the pathfinder/controller?
11:55:13 <reldred> Yeah, make the tile impassible if invalid and maybe hilight the tile, pop an error message, slash the end users tires, etc. etc.
11:58:15 <peter1138> We could use map bits to specify traversibility.
11:59:12 <peter1138> When building the station, set a bit to say non-passible on the two possible faces.
11:59:52 <peter1138> Train controller and path finder can test these bits.
12:00:42 <peter1138> GetTileTrackStatus() probably involved.
12:01:44 <peter1138> Maybe possible, advantage is it doesn't matter about non-track tile state at all.
12:02:04 <peter1138> enhanced_build_on_slopes :p
12:02:22 <andythenorth> peter1138: it's nice outside, can confirm
12:03:01 <peter1138> Yeah, maybe I should.
12:03:39 <andythenorth> I went outside for a bit to go indoor climbing
12:05:59 <reldred> It's too warm here atm
12:07:37 <reldred> I was going to print this weekend but my fdm printer is upset with me
12:17:21 <mnhebi> What did you do man, did you say a Prusa would be better in the sight of it?
12:17:49 <reldred> hah, it's a bambu, generally speaking it works flawlessly til I shid up a nozzle
12:18:11 <reldred> I've not had much success cleaning them
12:18:27 <mnhebi> meanwhile my Ender 3 V3 SE has been waiting for the nozzle upgrade *checks notes* 8 months now
12:19:58 <mnhebi> and by nozzle I mean hot end..
12:20:16 <reldred> yeah bambu a1 has a proprietary nozzle+hot end all in one
12:20:21 <mnhebi> I ponder how long that boron nitride paste lasts
12:20:26 <reldred> but hey, it works good til it doesn't
12:20:42 <reldred> I basically run my printer 24/6
12:22:10 <mnhebi> I bought mine just to print a part to adapt a gearstick to my gaming gear shifter cause people were charging outrageous 20 euro prices for a part that costs like 20 cents overall to print
12:22:29 <mnhebi> keep having this idea of making a drone with it but I don't have the money for the drone parts yet :3
12:22:45 <reldred> I got mine for printing wargaming terrain, I got the resin printer first.
12:22:57 <reldred> but now I've found gridfinity and I want to print dedicated storage for *everything*
12:23:11 <mnhebi> I seriously wish this 250x250 buildspace wasn't a industry standard...I want to print helmets damnit but all those printers are priced to high heavens.
12:23:12 <reldred> which considering I might be moving cross country soon, could be useful
12:23:38 <mnhebi> "oh you want 350x350 build space? better pay 5 times more for a printer you scrub"
12:24:09 <reldred> yeah bambu don't even have anything bigger than 256 cubed,
12:24:18 <reldred> apparently they're bringing one out this year
12:25:04 <mnhebi> I keep eyeing these "print your own 3d printer projects" but then I keep running into more and more impressive variants of those
12:25:31 <mnhebi> including this 4D printer someone made but hasn't shared the slicer or printer designs yet
12:26:58 <mnhebi> oh wait they did post the githubs...on the youtube vid lol
12:27:39 <reldred> basically the only thing I want a bigger printer for is printing bigger versions of this stacking case system:
12:27:46 <reldred> 5x5 is the biggest I can do
12:30:06 <reldred> idea is I can make stacking storage cases with gridfinity bins for everything and then when I move into my new place I can take all the bins out and put those straight into storage drawers
12:31:59 <reldred> but make it a lot easier to take all my small little bits and pieces and pack it for the 2750km drive
12:34:44 <reldred> god I hope i get this job though, the sites I'll have to look after have trains! and train stations!
12:58:10 <frosch123> _zephyris: I sent you an invite to ottd github org. I "think" that allows you to transfer repositories. However once ogfx2 is in ottd org you may have to use pull requests instead of direct pushing
12:59:22 <_zephyris> Great. I'll do some cleanup of unused then look into it.
13:17:48 <xarick> oh I don't really pay attention to subsidies
13:18:13 <xarick> I used to 10 years ago maybe
13:22:02 <pickpacket> What's the "freight weight multiplier"?
13:23:49 <reldred> basically to make hills actually a challenge
14:02:22 <peter1138[d]> Well, 'realistic accekeration' does make hills inconsequential.
14:02:58 <peter1138[d]> What gradient did the game decide they are...
14:03:26 <peter1138[d]> Feels like old Vs realistic is one extreme to the other.
14:08:45 <reldred> 5% by default I think, you can change the gradient? maybe that's just a jgrpp thing.
14:48:52 <Flygon> Almost inconsequential
14:49:00 <Flygon> If you don't do 1800s starts
14:49:09 <Flygon> In which case hills become the dreaded
14:50:06 <xarick> wasn't invalid trackbit something something about reversing ships?
14:51:24 <peter1138> Doesn't matter if it's no longer used.
14:51:55 <_glx_> yeah it's clearly never used to set anything
14:52:36 <xarick> oh, very similarly named
14:53:07 <xarick> Trackdir best_origin_dir = INVALID_TRACKDIR; my bad
15:10:28 <truebrain> frosch123: Yeah, but ... we don't have a LFS subscription .. so _zephyris please don't just transfer it 🙂
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15:11:56 <truebrain> main issue with LFS on GitHub, the biggest cost factor is bandwidth
15:12:46 <truebrain> we get 1GB of storage and 1GB of bandwidth (!) per month
15:14:02 <truebrain> so there is slightly more to figure out before doing as such 😄
15:20:04 <peter1138> Is 1GB bandwidth a typo?
15:21:23 <truebrain> the missing "for free" is 🙂
15:22:29 <peter1138> I mean... that's still ridiculously low given what LFS is for.
15:22:39 <truebrain> owh, I onlt now notice that GitHub charges the AWS price for GB transfered on LFS 😄
15:23:04 <truebrain> main issue for me is that you do not have any control on who does a "git checkout" on your LFS, yet you do pay for anyone doing it 😦
15:23:44 <_zephyris> I'll check the actual size of the source, excluding intermediate files, but I thought size might be an issue!
15:23:54 <truebrain> so it kinda forces you to make it private, for an org like OpenTTD
15:25:15 <truebrain> just a bit silly, that someone else can cause your LFS to lock till the end of the month .. I get where they are coming from, but it is annoying
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15:25:40 <peter1138> How does it work for OpenGFX2 at the moment?
15:26:24 <_zephyris> I pay the 5 eur pcm, or whatever it is
15:26:37 <_zephyris> Not many people check it out
15:27:33 <truebrain> from what I read, GitHub is migrating accounts to a new billing platform, after which you get 10GB bandwidth for free a month
15:27:36 <truebrain> a tiny bit nicer, I guess
15:28:30 <truebrain> they give a 30 day notice before they migrate you, which we haven't received yet 😄
15:29:27 <truebrain> also seems they are doing away with the 5euro bundle to get 50GB of bandwidth, and just switch to asking 0.09 USD per GB
15:29:44 <truebrain> not sure that is better or worse 😛
15:30:18 <truebrain> (did I ever mention I hate GitHub LFS? I might have ranted about it months ago 😄 I do understand why it is useful for OpenGFX2, but it is such a risk for organisation ....)
15:31:40 <_zephyris> The 1x zoom only fork is a possibility... But not the best plan.
15:32:11 <truebrain> My suggestion to migrate it wasn't meant to make it more difficult; so indeed, not the best plan 😄
15:32:22 <truebrain> and OpenTTD could spend some money on LFS, that also shouldn't be the issue
15:32:41 <truebrain> We just should be aware of the drawbacks
15:34:39 <Rubidium_> if you're paying for bandwidth with OpenGFX2, be aware that it might trigger the likes of Gentoo to update their packaging and potentially fetch it directly from github (for each of their users)
15:36:38 <truebrain> it seems you can't make a repo public yet have LFS restricted
15:37:05 <truebrain> Rubidium_: I am not sure Gentoo would use GitLFS, or just download the source from a release. The latter would be free.
15:37:35 <_zephyris> Hmm, I shall review my billing
15:38:05 <_zephyris> The 1x zoom version is 20x smaller of course.
15:38:05 <truebrain> not having OpenGFX2 as default most likely means very few people would try to clone your repo 🙂
15:38:13 <truebrain> most people would just use BaNaNaS 😄
15:38:34 <Rubidium_> I'm not sure either, but just something to be aware of
15:38:53 <truebrain> Yup; it is one of those fine examples where someone else might cause your GitHub LFS to stop working 😄
15:39:16 <truebrain> till the next month, ofc
15:39:36 <peter1138> What is OpenGFX 2 Classic and OpenGFX 2 High Def are separated?
15:39:57 <peter1138> Or is it the same assets used to create both (That would make sense)
15:41:45 <truebrain> Rubidium_: btw, I assume you triggered that new Coverity scan? And that you also took a look at their results? There are some interesting ones in there 🙂
15:44:15 <_zephyris> 50Gb allowance from my cheapo subscription, 0$ additional spend limit
15:44:52 <_zephyris> So I'm 'safe'... But I see the issue.
15:46:43 <truebrain> btw, not moving the repo has the same risk, that your allowance is drained every month 😛
15:47:29 <truebrain> OpenGFX is cloned ~3 times a day
15:47:42 <truebrain> 94 clones in the last 14 days
15:48:21 <Rubidium_> truebrain: yeah, I triggered it and am looking at some things
15:48:43 <truebrain> did you also receive the request for the random dude to join the org on coverity, for his studies? 🙂
15:49:05 <Rubidium_> that triggered me to look into that again
15:49:22 <truebrain> I figured 🙂 I totally forgot coverity existed 😄
15:50:22 <Rubidium_> it has found some stuff CodeQL hasn't, though on some things it is a bit picky
15:51:58 <pickpacket> What're the most significant differences between OpenGFX and OpenGFX 2?
15:55:28 <_zephyris> pickpacket: Everything is redraw, and about half of the sprites have a 2x or 4x version too
15:56:42 <_zephyris> It's a completely new graphics pipeline, 32bbp sources, automated overlay of things like rail onto different climate grass or bridges.
15:57:14 <_zephyris> Recoded/re-templates with extra zoom in mind.
15:57:24 <_zephyris> So quite a lot of changes!
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16:01:50 <frosch123> truebrain: Did they "respectfully request" though?
16:02:18 <pickpacket> _zephyris: Hmm. If I use it and any NewGRFs with only 8bbp sources... It would clash a lot visually when zooming in, wouldn't it?
16:04:01 <_zephyris> There's two variants, a standard 1x 8bpp, and a high def 32bpp 4x version
16:05:09 <_zephyris> I recommend it, but I'm biased!
16:05:59 <_zephyris> Only the 1x 8bpp one is on bananas, you can get the 4x 32bpp from github releases.
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16:07:37 <peter1138> pickpacket, it's way better than OpenGFX 1.
16:13:07 <pickpacket> I'm trying to compile 15.0-beta1 on my RPi3 but it complains that I don't have SDL2. I do, though. At least the libsdl2-2.0 deb package is installed
16:13:16 <pickpacket> maybe it's another one I need
16:13:47 <pickpacket> installing a *-dev candidate that looks promising
16:14:07 <pickpacket> I wonder if this has to do with the OS switching to a wayland compositor
16:17:07 <pickpacket> pickpacket: sadly a lot of graphics are wasted on me because I have *a lot* of transparency options active. My computer can only deal with so much 😅
16:17:18 <pickpacket> peter1138: sadly a lot of graphics are wasted on me because I have *a lot* of transparency options active. My computer can only deal with so much 😅
16:17:28 <pickpacket> there we go... stupid tab completion
16:17:45 <peter1138> It's okay, even the ground tiles look much better.
16:18:09 <_glx_> make sure it's a real sdl2 and not the compatibility layer for sdl3
16:18:39 <pickpacket> I want to improve the sprites for my own NewGRFs but they're pretty much at the best of my ability. I'm not as talented as andythenorth
16:18:45 <pickpacket> _glx_: roger roger
16:19:28 <pickpacket> it looks like this package installs the whole world as dependencies. That's either good or bad, I guess.
16:19:51 <truebrain> Also make sure to have the -dev version if you are compiling 🙂
16:20:06 <pickpacket> truebrain: yup! I've learned that, at least :D
16:20:32 <pickpacket> I'm way dumber than I look, but some things stick even in my non-stick memory
16:21:18 <peter1138[d]> Oops, desert is broken.
16:22:08 <Rubidium_> oh no... what did I break now?
16:22:11 <pickpacket> peter1138[d]: are those sand tiles with transparency laid over grass tiles?
16:22:52 <pickpacket> what's broken then?
16:22:55 <peter1138> Rubidium_, nothing, just a local branch.
16:23:02 <_glx_> they're supposed to be only on the desert edge
16:23:51 <pickpacket> so the actual desert is missing?
16:24:13 <_zephyris> Looks like someone is side-questing desert rocks...
16:33:31 <xarick> hmm train ticks so high...
16:34:01 <xarick> unavoidable, perhaps...
16:34:22 <peter1138> Well, technically with this patch it's possible to have Rough Rocky Snowy Desert Fields.
16:37:37 <LordAro> peter1138: but you can no longer have electrical rails? :p
16:41:09 <pickpacket> peter1138: I think that sounds amazing!
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16:42:14 <peter1138> LordAro, rails? What are rails?
16:44:09 <pickpacket> peter1138: the things you lean on when walking up/down stairs
16:50:03 <andythenorth> the things you go off if you drink too much
17:21:29 <_zephyris> Current ogfx2 clones is 0.2 a day, so ~10x less than ogfx1... 10x more clones would fit in my $5 per month 50gb allowance.
17:22:51 <_zephyris> There would likely be a spike, but also more activation energy to clone because of setting up git lfs
17:25:12 <truebrain> didn't you say a clone was 5GB?
17:25:53 <_zephyris> Full repo size, including generated files, is 5gb
17:26:04 <_zephyris> Haven't checked the actual repo size
17:26:37 <truebrain> that is not how "repo size" works, but okay 😄
17:26:43 <truebrain> imagine me saying OpenTTD's repo size is 1+GB 😛
17:26:52 <truebrain> we only care about the size of your .git folder, basically 🙂
17:27:31 <_zephyris> Yup, pardon the noobishness
17:27:44 <truebrain> it is okay, I am just pulling your leg 🙂
17:29:34 <truebrain> so roughly 40 clones
17:29:41 <truebrain> that is already a lot more reasonable 🙂
17:32:33 <truebrain> it does grow over time btw; every file ever checked in git will be added there
17:37:09 <michi_cc> Hmm, it is larger than the "recommended" 1GB, but the current threshold for GitHub to point a finger at you seems to be 5GB. So maybe one option would be to just make a new repo without any of the history without using LFS or anything. Unless you have single files > 50MB?
17:38:40 <_zephyris> True, I'll check later
17:38:59 <_zephyris> Juggling small children right now, though not literally!
17:39:44 <xarick> `have_script &= GetGameSettings().script.self_regulate_max_opcode;`
17:39:44 <xarick> both are bool. is that `&=` operation bad code style?
18:44:48 <_zephyris> All files under 50MB could be arranged...
18:47:56 <pickpacket> which commit is the latest nightly built on?
18:50:04 <michi_cc> pickpacket: Nightly is on Steam, BTW.
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20:01:22 <peter1138> I saw the array and thought... gosh that'll be a good improvement.
20:01:32 <peter1138> "Oh, it's only unit test."
20:02:18 <peter1138> The HouseSpec one though :o
20:02:33 <peter1138> That'll be "it's a span, innit."
20:02:55 <peter1138> This is a good reason to not actually just spam auto everywhere, tbh.
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21:09:54 <pickpacket> Something to do with vehicle IDs, maybe?
21:36:01 <peter1138> Something wrong with your game or your NewGRF.
21:36:24 <peter1138> Tea Tree 1.4.1 works for me with 15.0-beta1, and master.
21:37:44 <peter1138[d]> Well, other than the sprites having weird offsets.
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21:50:30 <pickpacket> I'm compiling master now
21:50:40 <pickpacket> I'll try that tomorrow
21:51:07 <pickpacket> peter1138[d]: is that OpenGFX2?
21:54:50 <peter1138> Ah of course, OpenGFX had vehicle offsets wrong.
21:55:16 <peter1138> God it makes a mess of things.
21:55:36 <pickpacket> Was it wrong or just different?
21:56:32 <peter1138> It's wrong, which is the UI is messed up with OpenGFX1. OpenGFX2 does it right.
21:58:23 <_zephyris> One of the long list of fixes...
22:08:11 <peter1138> Well, OpenGFX2 has something a bit too large.
22:08:33 <peter1138> Probably your Turner Turbo.
22:10:16 <peter1138> The Lev1 is 1 pixel too tall.
22:10:53 <peter1138> Hmm, though some of the others have catenary too.
22:13:19 <peter1138> Well anyway, whatever it is, something is causing the line to be 1 scaled pixel taller than normal.
22:47:00 <xarick> I like renewed interest in scripts
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23:09:05 <_zephyris> peter1138: Which line is too tall? In the purchase list? Turner Turbo and Lev1 are 1px too tall, but the electric rail ones are most egregious, because of the pantographs.
23:21:29 <peter1138> Yeah, I mean every line is too tall, because lines are the same height.
23:21:51 <peter1138> So it's "something" causing it, one of the sprites probably has an odd offset.
23:23:59 <_zephyris> Odd, 1 too high vertically
23:24:13 <_zephyris> Wellll, one for the list of mysteries
23:25:47 <_zephyris> Hmm. Same sprite height. Original offsets -14, -6. OGFX2 -15, -6.
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23:51:43 <peter1138[d]> Well, it's the age old 'everybody making NewGRFs ignores the original offsets' thing.
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23:56:04 <_zephyris> Looks like that face randomisation bug dates back to 2007, impressive.
continue to next day ⏵
