IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2023-10-30
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00:08:41 <goddess_ishtar> wifi is now working!
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07:33:16 <peter1138> Oops, I loaded a 4096x4096 savegame. In a Debug build. :/
08:12:45 <peter1138> LOL @ CODINGSTYLE.md:132
08:45:41 <truebrain> now that is some old code 🙂
08:50:40 <truebrain> how did it look before you made changes?
08:56:13 <dwfreed> I wouldn't say it's worse, at least
08:57:22 <peter1138> Alternative with non-overlapping panel widgets.
08:58:29 <truebrain> at least a lot less weird
08:59:17 <dwfreed> that bottom gap looks a little more odd in that last one
09:04:19 <locosage> yeah, last one looks weird
09:04:23 <peter1138> So it's both less weird and more odd :-)
09:04:28 <locosage> though maybe cargo flow legend can be moved there
09:04:36 <locosage> to make more space for industry legend
09:04:44 <truebrain> it is far more consistent; but the last image highlights the actual problem of this window, that the buttons don't take up the full height 🙂
09:05:18 <dwfreed> the vertical separator going all the way to the bottom just makes it more obvious
09:05:22 <peter1138> Yes, maybe the button layout should switch to vertical.
09:05:33 <peter1138> (The original game's small map uses a vertical layout)
09:06:38 <locosage> vertical would be a bit too high
09:06:46 <locosage> maybe vertical but next to the map instead of legend
09:07:48 <peter1138> Depends on how many cargo types there are :D
09:07:58 <peter1138> But yes, the original was next to the map.
09:08:18 <peter1138> That was when the smallmap was not resizable, but had a small/large toggle instead.
09:08:20 <locosage> with that many cargoes it's already a disaster
09:08:36 <locosage> legend needs all horizontal space it can get
09:08:44 <peter1138> Which is amusing because we still have that toggle control, but on a different window.
09:10:24 <peter1138> Ah the finances window was togglable in original too.
09:11:06 <peter1138> Fits... but we have information overload now.
09:11:20 <truebrain> it does look more pretty
09:32:50 <LordAro> i like that last one, why is it information overload?
09:34:02 <peter1138> I just mean we have way more buttons than original TTD :)
09:34:31 <peter1138> Oof, heating turned up again.
10:11:28 <bungus> peter1138[d]: this looks really nice because there is more window space for the map to expand nicely when you make the window larger
10:11:40 <truebrain> peter1138: I always wondered if we could overlay the zoomin / zoomout on the map, so it doesn't take up 2 buttons?
10:13:05 <peter1138> How would you choose whether to zoom in / out?
10:13:53 <peter1138> Oh, overlay on the map. Duh. Sorry.
10:14:01 <peter1138> Should be possible.
10:25:36 <truebrain> I am so used to having those buttons on the map, instead of next to it 😛 But okay .. it is not according to any other window, so maybe it is a shit idea 🙂
11:56:03 <locosage> are zoom in/out buttons even useful? it's much more convenient to just use scroll
11:57:21 <LordAro> not everyone has a scroll :p
11:59:25 <locosage> can make hotkeys for those
11:59:33 <locosage> main viewport already does
12:04:58 <peter1138> The buttons let you know you can zoom in.
12:12:35 <locosage> I made a debug key for the keyboard but didn't place it well xD
12:12:46 <locosage> keep accidentally pressing it
12:17:33 <peter1138> Left old, right new.
12:17:47 <peter1138> Same window size, more map visible.
12:18:28 <peter1138> Plus, window can go narrower.
12:18:56 <locosage> I'd just put them in a single column though
12:19:03 <locosage> but probably not 640x480 kind of thing
12:19:18 <LordAro> can you get rid of the horizontal line off the bottom right corner of the map?
12:19:32 <LordAro> presumably part of the cargo pane
12:20:15 <peter1138> No, there's two separate panes, a filler pane for the buttons, and the legend pane.
12:20:16 <talltyler> I wonder if the CargoDist legend could be moved to make the bottom pane only cargos. Would it fit below the buttons, perhaps? (Even if that means the button pane was the entire height of the window)
12:21:10 <peter1138> Smallest window size with default cargo.
12:21:21 <LordAro> can't just extend the filler pane all the way down?
12:22:04 <peter1138> LordAro, then it would eat into the space used by the legend.
12:22:30 <locosage> cargodist legend can probably go into collapsible panel next to the buttons
12:22:48 <locosage> it's rarely useful and when it is taking same map space doesn't seem to be an isuse
12:22:58 <LordAro> a bit, but i wouldn't have thought it would make too much of a difference (not in any of your screenshots anyway)
12:29:09 <locosage> oh, btw, there is an entirely different approach to solving minimap ui
12:29:23 <locosage> just make main viewport zoom out to minimap like in jgrpp
12:30:03 <peter1138> talltyler, "only cargos", not really, there are different views where the legend contains transport type in column 1 and terrain level in columns 2 & 3.
12:31:28 <locosage> would help though if legend didn't reserve space for cargodist legend when it's not enabled
12:40:25 <peter1138> Hmm, that is a fair point, regardless of any other changes.
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13:48:55 <peter1138> Slightly wider due to the sidebar extending down.
13:49:41 <truebrain> slowly it is growing to great prettyness .. the right one is ofc better than the left 🙂
13:50:37 <peter1138> Is it? The left one is with LordAro's suggested change to extend the filler pane all the way down.
13:50:57 <peter1138> (I also prefer it NOT extended, myself)
13:50:58 <truebrain> it looks really weird; especially as it is uneven with the map 🙂
13:51:40 <peter1138> Maybe clearer with a taller window.
13:51:49 <truebrain> yeah, still looks weird
13:51:56 <truebrain> 20 people, 21 opinions, ofc
13:52:11 <peter1138[d]> Let's make it a setting 😉
13:52:35 <LordAro> i'd rather no line between panes at all :p
13:52:51 <truebrain> the right one feels pretty natural, doesn't it?
13:53:15 <peter1138> The left one wastes more space, as the filler is larger.
13:53:26 <peter1138> No line at all is where we started.
13:53:26 <LordAro> that's with a lot of cargoes though
13:53:39 <LordAro> peter1138: i mean no line vertical or horizontal
13:54:58 <LordAro> actually that looks even weirder, having mocked it up in paint
13:55:02 <peter1138> LordAro, the first 08:50 screen shot is an example of how that looks, albeit with the current layout. Opinion was "that is weird"!
13:55:27 <LordAro> that's before moving the buttons though
13:55:48 <LordAro> anyway, yeah, fine, leave it
13:59:31 <peter1138> Hmm, possible idea...
14:02:32 <peter1138> The top 4 buttons do an action (bottom-right is a toggle)
14:02:38 <peter1138> The bottom 8 buttons switch the view.
14:04:16 <truebrain> it does explain better why more than one button can be pressed
14:04:26 <truebrain> that always felt a bit weird
14:04:34 <peter1138> Yes, it makes that much more obvious.
14:04:47 <truebrain> PS: de cargo colour is weirdly aligned vs the cargo label 😛
14:04:57 <truebrain> finger .. hand .. NOM NOM NOM
14:04:57 <peter1138> That depends on the font I thinK :)
14:05:18 <LordAro> it probably shouldn't :p
14:05:41 <truebrain> or is the english saying: give them an inch and they'll take a mile
14:05:46 <truebrain> I can never remember
14:05:50 <peter1138> It does because TTD's small font is a bit weird, but changing that is a whole other thing.
14:06:24 <peter1138> Hmm, still looks like it could be different :)
14:06:50 <peter1138> TTD original says the box is 1 pixel taller.
14:07:15 <peter1138> Okay, so that's a different bug. Yay.
14:10:28 <peter1138> TTD original also puts the heights on the left, andonly 5 of them, not 8.
14:14:01 <peter1138> Hmm, column width is also wrong, "DOC..."
14:15:09 <peter1138> Except some PRs tonight lol
14:20:15 <truebrain> in fairness, you do have to enter 1 rating system on Steam (the rest you can all say: unrated, which is the truth). And that 1 rating system had nothing to do with what most rating systems are after 😛
14:20:28 <truebrain> guess "unrated" is also a rating 😄
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16:01:43 <peter1138> Hmm, pretty sure I must have another phono audio cable somewhere...
16:46:29 <talltyler> Allowing a way for parents to disable chat seems reasonable, but adding a rating just to Linux may not benefit many people…how many children use Linux? 😛
16:47:41 <Rubidium> depends on whether you'd consider Android Linux ;)
16:51:11 <_jgr_> Disabling chat/multiplayer/etc in a way that children can't just turn back on when the parent leaves the room is not as straightforward as it sounds
16:52:14 <_jgr_> Promising "parental controls" that don't actually work is probably worse than not promising anything at all
16:58:44 <ahyangyi> Android is Linux but not "GNU/Linux" 😛
16:58:59 <ahyangyi> Somehow the long pedantic term has some meriits
16:59:23 <peter1138> Urgh, I just sneezed and nearly put my back out :/
17:41:55 <FLHerne> _jgr_: I feel like kids old wn
17:42:30 <FLHerne> enough to enable chat and care about it probably won't have issues with OTTD chat in practice
17:42:58 <FLHerne> it's not like FPS servers where everyone's screaming horrible insults at each other
17:43:10 <FLHerne> unless I missed a server where it is :p
17:59:18 <alfagamma7> I have seen spamming on openttd mp games
18:39:02 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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18:45:57 <peter1138> This is somewhat annoying, when there is not quite enough space for 4 colours, it logically only uses 3 columns.
18:46:10 <peter1138> But it *looks* like it's wasting a massive amount of space.
18:47:44 <LordAro> feels like quite a lot of space between columns
18:48:08 <peter1138> It's fixed to the maximum required for any label.
18:48:16 <peter1138> (Regardless of which display mode is selected)
18:48:35 <LordAro> ...does it have to be? :)
18:48:59 <peter1138> I think that needs to change.
18:49:44 <peter1138> That is very tall because I've got a NewGRF with lots of cargos loaded, of course, but still...
18:50:52 <LordAro> resizing the window would be problematic
18:50:56 <LordAro> especially quite that much
18:51:58 <truebrain> someone is having fun at least 😄
18:52:34 <truebrain> I think I installed my new computer correctly .. now the scary part to actually try it out ...
18:52:48 <truebrain> self-assembly is cheap and all, but also ...... "does this go here, or here?"
18:52:55 <peter1138> There is where you turn it on for the first time and you get a black screen for a minute.
18:53:12 <truebrain> I tried the BIOS update already, for which you don't need anything installed .. it didn't work 😛
18:53:16 <truebrain> so that is off to a great start 😄
18:53:41 <truebrain> it also has 64GB of RAM, so the mem-check will take ... a bit ... of time ..
18:54:07 <LordAro> i would consider trying a BIOS update before even turning it on for the first time to be.. bold
18:54:31 <truebrain> new feature on new mobos
18:54:43 <truebrain> with AMD many have the issue the CPU doesn't work on the mobo without BIOS update
18:54:48 <truebrain> so you have a lovely chicken/egg problem 🙂
18:55:24 <truebrain> it is actually pretty smart; but you need an empty USB-stick .. and I only have one with Windows installer on it, and I am not wiping that! 😛
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19:14:22 <peter1138> Don't forget the WWT_4 widget type :)
19:15:01 <truebrain> you looking at CODINGSTYLE.md again? 😛
19:15:32 <peter1138> Nope, the commit you referenced :)
19:15:33 <LordAro> some proper ancient history there
19:15:56 <LordAro> still got the reverse engineered magic numbers and everything
19:16:15 <talltyler> Where is this red dot? I’ve never seen it
19:16:30 <truebrain> it is that old my friends ... we are finding out a setting that old doesn't do what people expect in 2023 😄
19:16:57 <truebrain> talltyler: it would be no surprise to me at all when that dot got lost in time
19:17:01 <LordAro> that commit is legally an adult now :p
19:17:08 <truebrain> LordAro: haha, lolz
19:17:31 <truebrain> talltyler: what used to happen, when you put a news entry to off, and no news was showing a dot appeared to tell you there was news, but you were not interested
19:17:44 <truebrain> on the ... right side? if memory serves me well
19:17:52 <LordAro> i recall it being a thing
19:18:02 <truebrain> I believe the colour changed btw
19:18:14 <LordAro> i don't recall it being removed
19:18:29 <truebrain> me neither; but also not a thing that anyone would notice if it would break
19:18:36 <truebrain> as really ... who looks in the news history?
19:19:37 <LordAro> i believe james noticed that the game crashed if you opened it in wentbourne :p
19:20:29 <truebrain> `case ND_OFF: // Off - show nothing only a small reminder in the status bar`
19:20:33 <truebrain> comments suggest it still exists
19:20:58 <truebrain> `SBI_SHOW_REMINDER, ///< show a reminder (dot on the right side of the statusbar)`
19:21:01 <peter1138> Too many new items iirc.
19:21:28 <truebrain> `DrawSprite(SPR_UNREAD_NEWS, PAL_NONE, tr.right - icon_size.width, CenterBounds(r.top, r.bottom, icon_size.height));`
19:21:48 <truebrain> but is cancelled when anything runs on the ticker
19:21:57 <truebrain> it only shows when there is nothing on the ticker, and yet there is news 🙂
19:24:51 <truebrain> ah, no, I am wrong; it will show even if there is something else on the ticker running
19:24:56 <truebrain> and if it isn't, it is broken! 😛
19:25:06 <truebrain> (which once again would show nobody actually cares \o/ )
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19:42:31 <peter1138> Uh, well, that window is very weird.
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21:09:44 <LordAro> haven't had one of those in a while
21:10:35 <_zephyris> Only the second since me!
21:11:43 <_zephyris> I have a vested interest...
21:14:50 <truebrain> LordAro: I am sure frosch123 has statistics for you 😛
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21:15:51 <frosch123> no, but there were a few which had github urls in their bananas descriptions, which we never migrated unasked
21:16:04 <frosch123> _zephyris: i'll get to it
21:16:50 <_zephyris> frosch123: Very kind, I appreciate it
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22:15:36 <goddess_ishtar> truebrain: what on earth needs that much RAM?
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22:34:03 <emperorjake> Cities Skylines players with too many mods
23:13:10 <_glx_> triggered a build for the PR
23:17:05 <frosch123> there can be multiple groups with the same name?
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23:31:20 <frosch123> tested this time :p
23:47:18 <peter1138> I suggest the way it should be and you do something else, but :p
23:48:21 <frosch123> ah, i did not see the edit
23:48:28 <frosch123> when i looked you suggested no change :p
23:49:25 <peter1138> Yeah apparently my copy & paste didn't.
23:50:02 <peter1138> Took me ages to get the Suggest button to even come up :/
23:51:20 <peter1138> (I suspect CreateGroup() by itself shouldn't exist, as you say multiple sections with the same name probably causes issues... that was an oversight borrowed from the CreateItem version.)
23:55:11 <peter1138> I never remember how to checkout a PR, always have to search it.
23:56:18 <frosch123> it's easiest to fetch from my account
23:57:02 <frosch123> i did not find the PR ref method that useful
23:59:12 <peter1138> Hmm, the old [misc] graphicsset entry is retained, but loses is quote marks. Not sure what is expected.
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