IRC Logs | #openttd | 2023-10-24

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00:33:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #11391: Implement social platform support https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11391#pullrequestreview-1693750041

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02:35:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] yeah-its-gloria updated pull request #11391: Implement social platform support https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11391

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03:36:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] yeah-its-gloria updated pull request #11391: Implement social platform support https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11391

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07:29:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] PeterN commented on issue #311: Incorrect error when not providing a `name` property for waypoints. https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/issues/311

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07:59:40 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] OnlyMarko opened issue #11392: [Bug]: SetExclusiveConsumer, SetExclusiveSupplier do not work correctly with oil rigs. Gamescript. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/11392

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08:47:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] zephyris commented on issue #311: Incorrect error when not providing a `name` property for waypoints. https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/issues/311

09:01:03 <LordAro> i imagine #11392 is a "oil rigs are strange" problem

09:11:07 <peter1138> I've looked at it, it's "simple enough" but means adding some exclusivity checks to LoadUnloadVehicle.

09:17:13 <peter1138> 1) Prevent setting exclusivity for industries with neutral stations.

09:17:53 <peter1138> 2) Prevent (un)loading vehicles at neutral stations if its industry has exclusivity.

09:18:00 <peter1138> 1 is simple and consistent.

09:18:20 <peter1138> 2 is not much more work, but is confusing as it works differently from normal exclusivity.

09:20:37 <peter1138> 2 could potentially be useful for shared-inrast

09:21:00 <peter1138> shared-infrastructure style stuff, but that's not a thing anyway so not much of a consideration :D

09:22:53 <peter1138> Looks like there is currently a bug in `DeliverGoods()` too.

09:27:22 <peter1138> Ah, maybe not, that handles town delivery too. If the industry refuses the cargo (due to e.g. exclusivity), then it'll go to the town instead, if the town accepts it.

09:28:57 <LordAro> i'd go with avoiding confusion over anything else

09:29:05 <LordAro> shared-infra might never happen ;)

09:32:45 <peter1138> The confusion would be (bugs reports of) "Why is my ship not loading this cargo?"

09:33:45 <peter1138> Shared-infrastructure is a nice game mode, but it's been probably 15 years since I played it.

09:34:35 <peter1138> Also some $work-stuff "How did that ever work?!" "Oh, it didn't"

09:35:29 <LordAro> also the related: "It was only working because it was hidden behind a second bug"

09:41:01 <peter1138> I don't think that's an issue, industry-exclusivity is a relatively recent game-script addition and is different from town-exclusivity.

09:42:26 <peter1138> (I didn't even know it existed until looking at this :))

10:11:23 <peter1138> More $wor-stuff... no taking 20% off is not the same as calculating how much VAT was applied.

10:15:26 <peter1138> And Teams pops up a "How likely are you to recommend Teams" 'survey', WHILE I am in the process of looking at cell data in a shared spreadsheet...

10:16:21 <merni> I hear there's a new version of teams but haven't been able to use it yet

10:17:52 <LordAro> the interface is pretty similar

10:18:03 <LordAro> the extra efficency/performance is welcome though

10:18:17 <merni> Oo if the performance is better that will be great

10:18:41 <merni> teams has always amazed me with how much resources it seems to need for even the simplest button-click

10:21:45 <LordAro> the new one is edge webview based, which is still technically chromium, but extensively MS modified

10:22:02 <LordAro> (i'd generally go with Edge over Chrome these days, given the choice)

10:23:05 <merni> I use firefox generally but yes edge over chrome

10:23:31 <merni> LordAro: Somehow the mobile app is much faster though

10:33:41 <peter1138> I use Teams in Firefox, so none of that shit for me.

10:35:33 <peter1138> Also, accounts are a special breed... "just take of 1/6th". No, I am not going to rely on using a magic number which obscures the real %age.

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11:23:13 <andythenorth> Accounting is narrative. It only looks mathematical.

11:27:53 <peter1138> This apple has pink flesh. Surprising.

12:15:12 <locosage> peter1138: this doesn't really fix 11392

12:15:26 <locosage> though neutral stations muddle the waters a bit exclusivity should work regardless imo

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12:40:44 <peter1138> What this are you proposing doesn't fix it?

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12:54:35 <locosage> > 1) Prevent setting exclusivity for industries with neutral stations.

12:54:42 <locosage> I forget bridge can't into replies

12:55:16 <peter1138> It fixes the expectation that it will do something.

12:55:23 <alfagamma7> You can ping him you know

13:00:41 <locosage> not really, exclusivity is between industry and company, neutrality of a station is just a technicality

13:00:53 <locosage> there is no logical reason it shouldn't work with neutral station

13:02:13 <locosage> when someone tries to use exclusivity on industry with neutral station they likely already have some use case for it in mind

13:03:20 <_glx_> But neutral station doesn't receive anything if exclusivity is set

13:04:33 <_glx_> And if you also force use of neutral station (somewhere in the settings) the industry can't output

13:05:44 <peter1138> When someone tries to use exclusivity on industry with neutral station they likely don't realise that it won't work.

13:06:08 <peter1138> Therefore, we can specify that it won't work, so that it is no longer a surprise, and thus no longer a bug.,

13:07:31 <peter1138> Whether or not that is a satisfactory resolution is another matter.

13:14:41 <locosage> specifying current behavior is different from preventing to set exclusivity at all

13:15:33 <locosage> also, I'm mostly looking from gameplay perspective. For example, one of the usecases for exclusivity is making funded industries private

13:16:03 <locosage> in that case it doesn't really matter if it has neutral station or not, I'd expect to be able to set any industry as an exclusive to its founder

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13:18:17 <peter1138> 1 isn't current behaviour. Current behaviour sets exclusivity which causes unexpectedness. So 1 involves making the commands return failure instead of appearing to succeed.

13:19:18 <_glx_> * @param company_id CompanyID to set or INVALID_OWNER (available to everyone) or

13:19:18 <_glx_> * OWNER_NONE (neutral stations only) or OWNER_DEITY (no one)

13:19:18 <_glx_> ``` while the script API is just ``` * @param company_id The company to set (ScriptCompany::COMPANY_INVALID to reset).

13:20:10 <peter1138> Potential solution with a chance of even more weirdness; setting exclusivity on an industry with a neutral station changes the owner of that station.

13:20:14 <locosage> lol, I thought I considered neutral stations at some point but couldn't find any evidence...

13:21:18 <peter1138> That requires a way to make already (un)loading vehicles stop doing that (not that much bother I imagine.)

13:21:28 <locosage> btw, this probably affects town-wide exclusivity as well

13:21:29 <_glx_> at least failing to set exclusivity if industry has neutral and serve_neutral_industries is false should be mandatory

13:21:31 <peter1138> Not sure what happens if you have a station with the wrong owner in your company.

13:22:20 <_glx_> because it currently just disables any output

13:22:57 <peter1138> Yes, but there'll be players who think that is desirable because they can just bridge out and build their own station.

13:23:21 <peter1138> I forget all these options :D

13:28:40 <locosage> neutral station somehow acting as a player-owned one is probably the closest to what exclusivity is supposed to do gameplay-wise

13:29:17 <peter1138> I think it can be done by abstracting st->owner in a few specific locations.

13:29:25 <peter1138> So that the owner doesn't really change.

13:30:15 <peter1138> Hmm, perhaps not, load/unload is still a separate pain there.

13:32:14 <peter1138> There is the akwardness that it is split into consumer and supplier.

13:37:07 <peter1138> That one means that actually changing the owner is a no-go, so don't need to explore that avenue.

13:37:22 <locosage> yeah, was about to write the same

13:38:43 <locosage> making them separate kinda made sense at the time to allow some unconventional mechanics

13:39:02 <locosage> like output gets the company who provided the most

13:39:23 <peter1138> I can see it makes sense, it just changes the potential resolution.

13:41:02 <locosage> having station actually changing owners doesn't seem like a good idea anyway

13:50:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #11393: Fix #11392: Make neutral stations behave as industry-exclusivity company. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11393

13:50:53 <peter1138> Big caveat in Limitations... 🤷

13:52:44 <peter1138> If you fancy having a look and seeing the obvious glaring mistakes...

13:54:02 <peter1138> e.g. this doesn't do anything with that setting.

13:55:52 <locosage> I'll take a look later today

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15:34:12 <peter1138> Uh, my woodpecker-ci seems to have lost all its data :/

15:44:01 <peter1138> Well, that's my opinion of docker even lower...

15:44:21 <peter1138> I've no idea why it's lost its data, nor where it might be,.

15:44:28 <peter1138> Pretty sure this is a me problem.

15:53:13 <peter1138> Hmm, found the sqlite file, but it's in a different path to the one its trying to use :o

15:54:18 <peter1138> Does it... depend on the path I'm in when I use docker-compose up...

16:06:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #11393: Fix #11392: Make neutral stations behave as industry-exclusivity company. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11393#pullrequestreview-1695324916

17:29:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 commented on issue #311: Incorrect error when not providing a `name` property for waypoints. https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/issues/311

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18:38:41 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)

19:11:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Mantades started discussion #11394: Feature request: Allow the player to set a priority for different types of transport at a station https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/discussions/11394

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19:33:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on discussion #11394: Feature request: Allow the player to set a priority for different types of transport at a station https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/discussions/11394

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19:49:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Mantades commented on discussion #11394: Feature request: Allow the player to set a priority for different types of transport at a station https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/discussions/11394

19:50:50 <LordAro> andythenorth: isn't it your MBP?

19:53:11 <peter1138[d]> The DHCP server we use to make profit calculations is giving out incorrect leases.

19:55:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 updated pull request #305: Fix a9a1a3e: Forget about C5xx range for station names https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/pull/305

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