IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2023-10-20
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09:23:01 <pemensik|home> hello! Are somewhere documented approximate resources needed for multiplayer servers? How much memory and CPU do I need for 30+ people connected?
09:24:22 <truebrain> memory: about as much as 1. Each user consumes a tiny bit more memory, but think about a few KiB of RAM
09:24:36 <truebrain> the only thing that increases per user, is network usage
09:24:57 <truebrain> and, ofc, 30 people will build a lot of trains in a very short time; that will consume more and more CPU
09:25:27 <truebrain> so really, you will see the effect of many people playing sooner than the fact they are connected
09:25:45 <LordAro> (the multiplayer server is "just" running another instance of the game, so pretty much whatever CPU is needed to run the save locally)
09:33:43 <alfagamma7> truebrain: Somewhat agree
09:40:29 <truebrain> is there water in the well?
09:40:41 <LordAro> there's certainly lots coming out of the sky
09:41:05 <truebrain> same here .. they expect even worse later today ... happy I didn't go to the office tbh
09:44:18 <LordAro> it was quite fun cycling in this morning
09:44:34 <peter1138> Still waiting on a new gear cable to arrive for my touring bike.
09:44:59 <peter1138> I also got some clip-on SPD reflectors, but they don't fit my pedals :(
09:46:41 <peter1138> Might as well have just got some combo pedals instead.
09:47:35 <peter1138> I see Wiggle/CRC are having troubles.
09:48:07 <peter1138> Always happens when companies expand too much...
09:48:47 <peter1138> I remember when Wiggle was a small bike shop in Portsmouth. Them days eh!
10:10:57 <peter1138> MS Office says I need to restart Office to apply privacy settings changes.
10:11:06 <peter1138> I restarted it. No effect.
10:11:10 <peter1138> I rebooted, no effect.
11:03:23 <pemensik|home> is there any good tool to run openttd dedicated server as a service, but into which I can connect if I need to?
11:03:35 <pemensik|home> kind of tmux on demand
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11:30:24 <LordAro> pemensik|home: i believe someone's made a docker image - it's linked somewhere on the forums
11:31:59 <pemensik|home> I would like something like tmux session with logging enabled. So I can make some admin changes, but then detach and have it running
11:33:11 <LordAro> i mean, there's nothing stopping you doing that
11:33:15 <pemensik|home> I think similar problems were with minecraft servers or anything else. Just have on-demand connection to stdin, but with ability to disconnect from it
11:33:50 <pemensik|home> so I think there should be already decent tool to do that exactly, I may just not know it
11:35:50 <LordAro> there's various other ways of connecting to the server console too - rcon console commands from within game or the admin port gives some amount of access too
11:52:31 <pemensik|home> is there documentation of rcon and how it can be used?
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12:15:27 <pemensik|home> LordAro, perfect, thanks a lot!
12:35:13 <peter1138> Mmm, salad... in a sandwich.
13:06:21 <LordAro> Where's Lassie when you need her?
13:08:38 <pemensik|home> I would like to use my own list of generated town names. Can I put somewhere my custom list of names to use?
13:12:34 <LordAro> not really, you need a newgrf for that, or a pre-made scenario
13:15:28 <pemensik|home> but newgrf would be needed just for a savegame generation. Then other clients would not need it, right?
13:15:55 <LordAro> afraid not, that's not how newgrfs work
13:19:37 <peter1138> I guess it wouldn't be impossible to have a feature for town names that was only used for initial generation, so doesn't need to be shared. But that doesn't exist right now.
13:21:59 <LordAro> write a gamescript to rename all the towns!
13:22:08 <LordAro> definitely a useful solution
13:22:29 <pemensik|home> Can a game script change names of towns?
13:23:17 <LordAro> but a GS is also needed by all clients :p
13:24:19 <talltyler> But if you’re the server host (requirement for running the GS), you can just use the NewGRF and make everybody use it too 😉
13:25:02 <LordAro> depends whether you want to publish it...
13:25:04 <peter1138> Yes but publishing that on the content server whenever you want to tweak the list of names if a bit much.
13:25:22 <talltyler> Peter: just for my own knowledge, what is this sort order for cargos? Is it just passengers, mail, then everything else? Alphabetical? I don’t remember seeing anything about it when doing industry set development
13:26:58 <peter1138> talltyler, CC_PASSENGERS > CC_MAIL > CC_SPECIAL > Alphabetical.
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13:27:17 <peter1138> So there's no explicit sort property, it's set by cargo class flags.
13:27:57 <peter1138> In the before picture it's... whatever order the GRF defines the cargo types.
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13:28:15 <peter1138> Well, not actually, it's by cargo id order.
13:29:05 <johnfranklin> ate lamb sandwich for dinner
13:29:34 <pemensik|home> I want it for internal company event. Not necessary to be public
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13:35:19 <peter1138> Server-to-Client NewGRF distribution would help things, but that is a huge can of worms...
13:36:30 <pemensik|home> is there any git repo of simple small game script example?
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14:09:32 <_zephyris> Is there any reason for the sprite aligner to show 4x offsets, and move in a step size of 1? Ctrl+click to move by 8 seems weird too... Why not show 4x smaller values, ie. as you'd use in a grf?
14:17:15 <peter1138> click-click moves by 4...
14:17:47 <pemensik|home> I am missing some crash course. Okay, weird language squirrel is used. But how exactly do I make script read by the game?
14:21:27 <peter1138> _zephyris, probably because the people designing the UI aren't the people using the NewGRF tools. And people prefer to complain about offsets being confusing instead of highlight actual weirdness ;)
14:23:23 <peter1138> But maybe you can't actually specify offsets in 4x land? Dunno.
14:25:07 <peter1138> That's before PR-times, so I've no longer any idea about the justification of that change. But it was 9 years ago.
14:27:55 <pemensik|home> ah, I were trying to find how to compile the script and it is consumed just as its tar archive
14:28:00 <peter1138> _pruple, maybe has some thought with experience of making 4x sprites too.
14:29:07 <peter1138> (Especially thinking about the 127-128 thing)
14:30:15 <peter1138> Internally there is only 1 offset regardless of zoom level, and that is for the 4x size.
14:30:20 <LordAro> pemensik|home: i suspect a premade scenario might be better for your situation, if it's a one off event
14:30:53 <pemensik|home> Is it possible to open generated game and just rename towns in a save game?
14:31:49 <pemensik|home> is there a tool which can be used to edit the savegame?
14:32:28 <LordAro> (there do exist a few external savegame readers out there, but i'm not aware of any that do any editing)
14:32:44 <_pruple> Yes, the offsets in your NFO/nml are actual pixels, whereas the sprite aligner offsets are always 4x, so you have to divide by 2 or 4 if you're drawing at a lower resolution.
14:33:01 <pemensik|home> ah, right. So lot of point and click. I want to name several offices.
14:33:23 <pemensik|home> is it possible to convert savegame to scenario and edit it in the editor?
14:34:28 <peter1138> Ah so you are able to use the 4x offsets as they are, but only if you are doing 4x sprites.
14:37:16 <_pruple> Well, usually not, because the sprites are cropped during grf compile so end up with a different origin. 🙂 but you can use the *difference* in offsets as they are in 4x.
14:42:22 <_zephyris> Hmmm. Realistically people must dominantly use 1x offsets. I'd forgotten that you set offsets for 2x/4x alternate sprires separately.
14:42:27 <peter1138> I don't think that's fixable as that cropping is external and not really OpenTTD's 'fault'.
14:42:46 <_zephyris> A step of 4 for ctrl+click seems much more sensible though!
14:43:36 <_pruple> peter1138: Yes, there's no way for the game to know how big the sprite was before cropping.
14:45:14 <brickblock19280> Right now I mostly use Ctrl click and then a few small ones at the end since clicking four times is a huge pain
14:45:55 <brickblock19280> Would it be possible to chose between different offset lengths for different zooms by buttons?
14:46:03 <peter1138> I'm happy to fix this, but knowing that is it actually possible to use the zoomed in offsets just changes what the fix is :)
14:50:11 <rau117> Are there any plans to add the ability to precisely set the time for autosaves?
14:50:11 <rau117> Instead of a list of 10, 30, 60. . . make an input field so that you can make saves once every 12 minutes, for example.
14:56:57 <_zephyris> peter1138: I'd argue settting 4x offsets to anything other than 4x the 1x offsets is a very niche case - because you always need to have a 1x sprite to have a 2x/4x alternate. However you absolutely can set it.
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15:00:53 <_zephyris> Hmmm... A simple decent fix would be to show 1x, 2x and 4x offsets in a simple format (-12/-24/-48) and change ctrl+click to a 4px step.
15:01:27 <_zephyris> What's the actual appropriate 1x offset from a 4x offset? Presumably floor(x/4)?
15:10:51 <LordAro> online content download?
15:16:01 <pemensik|home> how do I choose libraries in online content?
15:16:42 <rau117> pemensik|home: just… search for it
15:17:17 <pemensik|home> ah, it is not offered from the same place, got it
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15:42:37 <peter1138> Ah fudge, am I going to have to change the outers and rewrap the bar tape as well...? :(
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15:49:38 <merni> pemensik|home: Since apparently nobody answered this... you can convert a save to a scenario by just changing the .sav extension to .scn
15:54:29 <LordAro> merni: hadn't yet been relevant, afaict? server's perfectly happy with -g foo.sav as it is -g foo.scn
15:54:40 <LordAro> s/server/command line/
15:55:02 <merni> they were asking about editing in the scenario-editor though, and that does need .scn
16:05:06 <LordAro> oh! i missed that line
16:05:20 <LordAro> too much extra graphics discussion
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16:55:40 <LordAro> 45 files changed, 116 insertions(+), 1768 deletions(-)
16:55:46 <LordAro> i think i'll call Friday done
16:58:38 <pemensik|home> oh ho! thank you everyone, I have made a script to rename all towns from an array. Seems to work.
17:00:14 <peter1138> LordAro, 17:55, over time time!
17:00:28 <peter1138> pemensik|home, nice work :)
17:02:28 <pemensik|home> did not know industry is connected to town's name and cannot have own name.
17:26:48 <peter1138> Oof, time to get busy...
17:42:50 <LordAro> now's where you find out one of them silently conflicts with another
17:43:27 <peter1138> Or further, builds and runs but not correctly...
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17:46:28 <peter1138> Phew, it builds ;-)
17:47:11 <peter1138> Make regression fails but I think that's an out-of-date unit test.
17:48:51 <peter1138> The task that copes the files over to the unit test directory doesn't automatically run.
17:51:20 <peter1138> Too many things at onceOh dear.
17:51:35 <peter1138> Hmm, my enter key appears to be hyper-sensitive.
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18:31:11 <memoryloss> wait why are these all bots?
18:34:29 <Rubidium> because we are bots? ;)
18:34:56 <dwfreed> (correct answer: IRC bridge)
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18:36:18 <peter1138> > constexpr bool empty() const noexcept { return size() == 0; }
18:36:48 <peter1138> I think that one might not be correct though.
18:37:57 <Rubidium> I hope that's not the implementation for std::list ;)
18:38:35 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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19:31:22 <peter1138> LordAro, if I keep checking the weather, will it make it nice tomorrow?
19:36:07 <Rubidium> if you keep doing it long enough, sure ;D
19:36:47 <peter1138> Still checking the weather and it's now April...
19:37:22 <andythenorth> Rained a bit though
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21:06:16 <peter1138> > load average: 20.82, 13.47, 8.93
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