IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2023-03-16
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00:18:13 <glx[d]>
00:21:46 <glx[d]> I think I see what happens, enums are actually present after `require` but only the local ones are present at compile time
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01:03:38 <glx[d]> all happens at compile time in <>, constants (enum included) are replaced by their value, but when const/enum is defined in a required file it doesn't exist at compile time and squirrel assumes it's a variable (local or global) to be resolved at runtime, and that of course fails
01:13:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Monkeycat-nl commented on issue #10153: [Drawback]: Small font is unreadable at default size and most popular screen resolutions.
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01:26:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #10153: [Drawback]: Small font is unreadable at default size and most popular screen resolutions.
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06:59:31 <GeorgeVB> Does anybody use precombined sprites?
06:59:31 <GeorgeVB> I'm trying to add them to xUSSR rails, but I have no effect. Can someone help?
07:01:15 <GeorgeVB>
07:02:13 <GeorgeVB>
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09:19:53 <andythenorth[d]> I was looking at pixel fonts
09:20:15 <andythenorth[d]> if we found one with the correct free license we could distribute instead of the opengfx font
09:20:35 <andythenorth[d]> many things about opengfx are great, but the font is bad
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09:52:32 <LordAro> andythenorth[d]: PR pls
10:01:33 <petern> There's only so many ways to fill in a 5 pixel high font, and yet OpenGFX manages to mess it up.
10:12:02 <Xarick> hi
10:18:22 <pickpacket> Xarick: o/
10:19:56 <Xarick> πŸ™‚
10:25:42 <pickpacket> Xarick: I've seen you talk about running into problems with the code here and there. What is it you're working on doing?
10:27:36 <Xarick> right now, I'm testing replacing an enum into a class, because squirrel fails to find them at compile time, if they're in a `require`
10:28:43 <Xarick> hacks!
10:29:12 <Xarick> seems to detect them
10:29:16 <Xarick> if they're class
10:30:46 <pickpacket> I don't know what squirrel is :) but are you working on some specific feature?
10:31:57 <Xarick> squirrel is the language used by AIs and GSs
10:46:45 <dP> A samurai has no goal, only path 🀣
10:54:28 <Xarick> I replaced this <>
10:54:39 <Xarick> with this <>
10:54:46 <Xarick> and now it works! magic!
10:54:50 <Xarick> a fake enum!
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11:35:16 <glx[d]> Should not be needed, it's a bug in openttd
11:52:12 <LordAro> what's the bug?
12:09:32 <glx[d]> `require` is a runtime function, but consts/enum are only available at compile time, so any const defined in required is not available in requiring
12:10:25 <glx[d]> I have some ideas on how to solve that
12:12:28 <glx[d]> It's mainly a lookup issue, as consts are actually available, but not looked for as they are supposed to be compile time only
12:19:49 <TallTyler> andythenorth[d]: TrueType or an actual pixel font?
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12:46:16 <LordAro> glx[d]: is that a bug in OTTD, or a bug in squirrelm
13:00:17 <glx[d]> Require is an openttd addition
13:01:19 <LordAro> ah
13:01:21 <glx[d]> I'd say it's an openttd bug even if it's something missing in squirrel code
13:01:29 <LordAro> true
13:02:27 <glx[d]>
13:03:04 <glx[d]> That is const/enum status at runtime
13:05:40 <glx[d]> So runtime could access them, but doesn't
13:06:32 <glx[d]> I think the easiest way would be to set consts table as a delegate for root table
13:06:47 <glx[d]> But I need to test
13:37:09 <andythenorth[d]> TallTyler: truetype
13:37:24 <andythenorth[d]> I assume
13:43:35 <Xarick> monthly autosave and fastforward does not combine well
13:44:15 <dP> having pixelated font would probably be worse for small size than a regular one
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13:44:34 <dP> unless it's designed for that exact number of pixels
13:44:54 <Xarick> it's not really monthly, it saves whenever it is not saving something already
13:45:24 <TallTyler> I would support making a good TrueType font the default for all base sets, and let experienced users who like the TTD pixel font set that manually. It would cut down on a lot of confusion about fonts not matching partial UI scaling
13:45:50 <TallTyler> So I second LordAro’s call for a PR πŸ˜›
13:46:02 <dP> yep, there are plenty of decent fonts with suitable license
13:46:51 <Xarick> but it's naming autosave2.sav, skips 3 monthhs, and the next autosave is autosave6.sav instead of autosave3.sav
13:55:06 <LordAro> Xarick: that feels unintentional
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13:58:00 <glx[d]> It's not really skipping, it tried 3 to 5 but didn't save because it was still saving 2
13:58:38 <glx[d]> Counter is increase each time it tries to save
14:00:06 <petern> This is "my fault" for removing the bit that stopped ffwd while saving πŸ™‚
14:03:01 <TallTyler> I wonder if you could stop autosaving while fast forwarding
14:03:16 <TallTyler> But the best option is probably real-time intervals instead of game time
14:03:27 <petern> Someone has a patch for that, I'm sure...
14:10:53 <LordAro> someone
14:27:37 <dP> oh, I just found one more openttd discord server xD
14:27:42 <dP> have 12 now πŸ˜…
14:35:08 <Brickblock1> lol
14:35:27 <Brickblock1> I am only in 6
14:37:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm in 0
15:06:37 <discord_user_f4a0790> I’m in 1
15:15:29 <Xarick> weren't 4096x4096 savegames supposed to be reduced in size now that trees aren't saved?
15:15:36 <Xarick> the counter
15:16:01 <Xarick> ah... nvm, the trees still exist
15:20:45 <Xarick> trees are responsible for... 75% of the savegame size, i guess
15:24:30 <Rubidium> Xarick's statements are 100% wrong, I guess
15:25:10 <Xarick> im gonna do a test
15:25:31 <petern> Trees are saved, it's just one counter (in each tile) that was removed.
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15:32:51 <Xarick>
15:33:40 <Xarick> lzma 9
15:33:55 <Xarick> openttd 13.0
15:35:23 <Rubidium> are they exactly the same savegame, just without (or more) trees?
15:35:36 <Xarick> yes
15:36:22 <Rubidium> how did you remove/add the trees?
15:36:42 <Xarick> i removed them from being generated
15:36:57 <Xarick> changed the generate method in settings
15:39:47 <Xarick> 0,59762513701132626963829009864815
15:39:47 <Rubidium> so, the maps aren't the same as 13.0 still uses random for tree building and later processing
15:40:12 <Xarick> ah 😦
15:40:16 <Xarick> ok i will test on master
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15:52:10 <Xarick>
15:52:58 <TallTyler> If I understand the tree change correctly, it would save on gameloop processing, right? Instead of iterating through all trees to check if they should grow, it just randomly picks trees to grow.
15:53:17 <TallTyler> dP: might be able to comment more on what’s improved
15:54:13 <Xarick> 0,55126481730416717585237687889527
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15:55:39 <Sinas128> almost 1
15:57:49 <Rubidium> so, a >10% improvement for that change. And you are aware that you're testing worst case. I wonder what the relative difference is with 15 companies with 5000 vehicles each ;D
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16:04:58 <JGR> TallTyler: No, there's really no gameloop processing reduction at all
16:06:01 <JGR> Other than not having to mutate the map all the time, which has some tiny benefit
16:06:10 <dP> trees impact on savegame size was slightly reduced in master compared to 13.0 but it's still huge
16:06:37 <dP> Xarick: so, yeah, this looks about right
16:07:53 <dP> Rubidium: 15 companies with 5000 vehicles each is surely not a worst case 😜
16:08:41 <Rubidium> no, but I doubt the trees have a significant impact on savegame size there
16:10:00 <JGR> If your base map is mostly an empty flat plain of grass, then anything at all on top of that is going to make it not compress as well
16:11:07 <dP> vehicles don't take that much data
16:11:14 <dP> guess can check on wentbourne
16:11:44 <dP> though there is no point, over 5000 vehicles isn't even playable :p
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16:21:31 <dP> is there some simple way to see total amount of vehicles in the game?
16:24:06 <JGR> I've got a console command for it, I don't think there's anything in vanilla
16:24:26 <JGR> You could just put a printf in the right place for a quick check
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16:29:52 <nielsm> tbh adding a "debug_poolstats" console command might be a good idea in general
16:31:16 <dP> Adding a window in the game with some useful stats is even better ;)
16:31:42 <JGR>
16:32:20 <dP> no air?
16:32:51 <JGR> I don't have any aircraft in my current game
16:33:07 <dP> also, that looks like it's grouped by company, no?
16:33:23 <dP> I'd still expect it to print 0 not just skip line
16:35:01 <dP>
16:35:01 <dP> something didn't go to plan xD
16:36:04 <JGR> The total line is for for all companies
16:36:19 <JGR> Doing totals for each type as well seemed overkill
16:37:00 <dP> it's kind of interesting too see in mp games
16:37:08 <dP> how many ships it takes to lag the server xDD
16:37:40 <dP> also, amounts by company can be just seen on the company window
16:46:08 <dP> ok, game with 4k vehicles and stuff is 2mb more than its starting state (5mb)
16:46:22 <dP> which is likely still less than trees take :p
16:46:49 <dP> also it's a citybuilder with 1mil city so that probably adds more entropy than all the vehiles...
16:48:33 <JGR> You could probably do reasonable estimates just based on the frequency of tile types
16:49:13 <dP> tbh it doesn't really matter much to me
16:50:02 <JGR> Trees are the most frequent tile type in my current game
16:51:48 <dP> I don't mind spending disk space on something players built
16:52:01 <dP> but just auto-generated trees feel like a big waste
16:52:11 <JGR> They look nice?
16:52:19 <JGR> Better than barren green wastes anyway
16:52:37 <dP> they don't need space to look nice ;p
16:52:57 <dP> they all come from the single seed number anyway ;)
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17:00:53 <dP> oh, well, maybe I'll get to finish my procedural trees patch before 14.0
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18:17:24 <frosch> hmm, looks like i misread the team-discussion deprecation-date
18:17:34 <frosch> it's in may, nor in march
18:18:05 <frosch> i could have been slacking for two more months πŸ™‚
18:22:37 <TrueBrain> lol; poor you πŸ˜›
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18:35:52 <LordAro> TrueBrain: is this docker organisation deletion thing going to affect us at all?
18:36:05 <LordAro> iirc not as we'd already moved away from docker hub?
18:36:13 <TrueBrain> not directly; we migrated to GitHub Container Registry a while ago
18:36:19 <TrueBrain> as I have been saying this was going to happen sooner or later
18:36:24 <TrueBrain> everyone was like: nah, they won't do that
18:36:28 <TrueBrain> but yeah .. this was to be expected πŸ˜„
18:36:44 <TrueBrain> the only place it might affect us, is for base images for projects that didn't have the insight yet
18:37:05 <TrueBrain> the "fun" part is, there is no way to tell currently if the image you use is going to be removed or not
18:37:34 <TrueBrain> either way, even in those cases, the impact will be low
18:38:14 <frosch> compared to javascript's string trimming "library" πŸ™‚
18:38:57 <TrueBrain> Docker is playing the game "from hero to zero"
18:39:21 <TrueBrain> we will see how it turns out πŸ™‚
18:39:42 <frosch> some people at my corporation actually got a docker desktop licence
18:39:54 <frosch> so they sold to someone at least
18:40:13 <TrueBrain> tell them to switch to podman desktop πŸ˜„
18:41:26 <frosch> nah, today was already a popcorn day at work
18:41:52 <frosch> we had a small reply-all bomb. about 40 people replied-all to 10k people, of which 20 asked to unsubscribe
18:41:59 <frosch> not enough to break everything
18:42:53 <TrueBrain> awh .. too bad πŸ˜›
18:42:58 <TrueBrain> expensive mail chains πŸ˜„
18:45:01 <frosch> even the 20 people appeared a lot to me
18:45:30 <frosch> it was an r&d list, so no sales folk. i would expect them to know you cannot unsubscribe from organisatorial groups
18:45:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
18:45:48 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:46:14 <TrueBrain> I can't believe everyone can email to such groups πŸ˜›
18:48:08 <frosch> well, there were some intermediate steps of some weird list forwarding to another, so not necessarily something IT would have expected
20:26:13 <dP> how do I check for unused strings in english.txt?
20:28:13 <Rubidium> python3 .github/
20:29:25 <TrueBrain>
20:29:51 <TrueBrain> Lol, I guess docker agrees it was a terrible move :p
20:33:09 <TrueBrain> What a terrible post, hard to read by all the different names and things .. hard to read their actual message
20:33:22 <TrueBrain> Always surprises me :p
20:34:37 <Xarick> I don't even know what a docker is
20:43:21 <audigexJon> Docker = containers (although there are other variations of the idea)
20:43:21 <audigexJon> To over-simplify a bit, it's *kinda* like a VM in concept, but instead of virtualizing the whole operating system, you instead create a container for the application and share some of the resources of the OS, but in a sandbox (segregated memory etc). Everything runs within the sandbox so it's more secure than just running the application, but much less resource intensive than a VM
20:43:21 <audigexJon> Kind of a halfway house between a virtual machine, vs running the application natively directly on the OS
20:44:07 <audigexJon> In most cases, dockers are cross platform because they include everything they need to run
20:55:58 <andythenorth[d]> TallTyler: I would be +1 to this as long as it's trivial to drop back to the sprite font
20:56:36 <dP> Rubidium: ty
20:58:19 <dP> ```python .github/ | grep ERROR | wc -l
20:58:19 <dP> 430```
20:58:19 <dP> oh, boy...
20:58:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #10573: Fix: [Script] Access to enum/consts defined outside of main.nut
20:59:04 <dP> `ERROR: STR_ABACABA is (possibly) no longer needed.`
20:59:04 <dP> yeah, possibly not 🀣
21:02:25 <andythenorth[d]> hmm
21:03:00 <andythenorth[d]> can't we have 128 variants of tree tile, then a list for each one of which tiles use it?
21:03:10 <andythenorth[d]> tiles would compress better
21:03:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #10534: Change: Don't show error when rail/road construction/removal is already done
21:03:17 <andythenorth[d]> the lists of trees:tiles might not πŸ˜›
21:04:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #10573: Fix: [Script] Access to enum/consts defined outside of main.nut
21:07:37 <dP> I have a patch that does fully procedural trees with only 5 tree types to store
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21:07:48 <dP> need to prettify and test it before making pr though
21:07:55 <dP> <>
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21:12:40 <dP> actually, it's typically just 1 or 2 tree types to store since they're climate-specific
21:12:45 <JGR> GetProceduralTreeType doesn't look like it's doing any hashing at all?
21:12:50 <JGR> Isn't that going to look a bit stripy
21:13:40 <dP> yeah, hashing is not quite done there
21:14:52 <dP> cycle hash is also weird
21:17:22 <JGR> I ended up needing something similar for the custom rocks stuff I was looking at, so just stole an existing cheap hash function: <>
21:18:50 <dP> yeah, I'll try different functions when I get to finishing it
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23:14:44 <Xarick> anyone has anything to add to that message? I feel sleepy