IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-11-27
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08:20:09 <andythenorth> throw out my comment
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08:23:15 <petern> Can't change it in case newgrfs inherit that flag. But also there was discussion before and class 43 isn't a DMU. Or something.
08:24:28 <andythenorth> it's still a thing
08:24:40 <andythenorth> I have an account on a train forum
08:24:52 <andythenorth> literally being discussed yesterday
08:25:06 <andythenorth> IMAGINE ANYONE NOT KNOWING THAT A HST IS NOT A DMU
08:25:28 <andythenorth> "I THINK YOU'LL FIND..."etc etc
08:27:08 <petern> Well BR class 252, eh?
08:28:25 <andythenorth> not quite sure why I want to start a model train company
08:28:30 <andythenorth> the customers would drive me nuts
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08:30:43 <andythenorth> "When built, from 1976 onwards, the InterCity 125 rolling stock was classified in the diesel-electric multiple unit (DEMU) series;"
08:30:48 <andythenorth> there we go, it's on wikipedia
08:31:07 <andythenorth> although the train forum calls it "liarpedia"
08:31:31 <andythenorth> goes it approve 😛
08:31:41 <andythenorth> 10194, you can pass go
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10:45:11 <CplBurdenR3294> Straight outta Snoozewood!
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11:02:33 <JustANortherner> Crazy Mothafucka named Alarm Clock
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14:03:14 <LordAro> TallTyler: so, beta2? :p
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14:04:02 <petern> I'll make a pr when I get out the bath
14:04:17 <TallTyler> I’ll work on beta2 today
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14:17:32 <petern> Already have the fix, just compiling against master 🙂
14:18:03 <petern> I've got plenty of other little tweaks to sort out, but they're more cosmetic tweaks than this one.
14:18:38 <petern> Also I think I've twinged my back moving bikes around and cleaning them 😦
14:20:47 <LordAro> you should do what i do
14:21:48 <LordAro> that's not *much* worse than mine
14:44:24 <FLHerne> petern: silly question, what trainset is that? Looks almost like UKRS2 but a bit 'cleaner'
14:49:21 <petern> It is very buggy with its livery refits.
15:22:31 <ag[d]> petern: Meanwhile my bicycle looks like an abandoned one
15:51:28 <TallTyler> Forgot the release date 😛
15:56:41 <dP> On a topic of beta... Anyone feeling brave to merge #9637 or #10006? It's kind of now or never thing
15:58:01 <TallTyler> In the current implementations, anyway
16:00:25 <petern> (Why is it now or never?)
16:01:39 <TallTyler> Can someone approve #10149 so I can continue with the release process?
16:02:00 <dP> Well, for 13 the sooner it's merged the better so we can collect feedback
16:03:07 <dP> And I don't see how would anything change for 14
16:05:42 <petern> I agree with TallTyler on 10006
16:06:28 <petern> If it could allow the current hotkey behaviour, and also allow new behaviour if you redefine things that would be good.
16:07:47 <dP> How would you solve tooltips with compatibility? Double them?
16:12:24 <TallTyler> Wouldn’t the tooltip just show the currently selected hotkey for remove?
16:14:49 <dP> The may be no remove in compatible mode
16:16:39 <dP> Though I guess I can show "unassigned" but that's kinda ugly to have by default
16:17:10 <petern> Are you adding remove functions as well as changing hotkey assignments?
16:17:59 <dP> dP: Oh, but that would need some ugly string codes different for remove key and compatible remove
16:18:28 <dP> petern: Well, bulldozer is already there I just make use of it in more tools
16:18:56 <dP> Otherwise it's kinda silly to have remove key that doesn't work
16:19:01 <TallTyler> I guess I don’t understand the compatibility mode. Wouldn’t FN_KEY and REMOVE_KEY both be set to Ctrl?
16:19:31 <TallTyler> So if the tooltip lists {REMOVE_KEY} it would just show Ctrl?
16:19:48 <dP> No In compatible mode ctrl is sometimes fn sometimes remove
16:20:23 <TallTyler> Because no tools have both Fn and Remove
16:20:31 <dP> Eh for rail it's remove but for stations it's fn
16:21:43 <petern> Ah you've sinned and added multiple features to one PR 😉
16:21:46 <dP> You can't say in station tooltip "ctrlcklick" to remove
16:22:03 <petern> (Related features, but still)
16:22:09 <dP> petern: I did multiple commits :p
16:22:40 <petern> Probably not as bad as Samu's but still.
16:23:04 <dP> They don't make much sense separately
16:32:36 <TallTyler> Feature freeze isn’t until RC I believe, so it’s not exactly “now or never”
16:35:33 <dP> Technically yes, but it's better to have some time for people to test it
16:35:48 <dP> Not that many play betas though
16:36:29 <petern> Now or never is a shitty ultimatum tbh, as there's always post-13.
16:36:55 <petern> Also yay, fixed the sticky trigger on my Xbox controller.
16:38:47 <FLHerne> for 9637, I'm still convinced that just flipping it will produce a lot of bug reports
16:39:04 <FLHerne> people have been pressing Ctrl forever, and not everyone reads the release notes
16:39:20 <FLHerne> that said, it probably won't take long to adapt once people realise
16:40:41 <dP> Yeah, at least it's relatively simple to adapt
16:41:08 <dP> There is no adapting to removal of area function do those who need it
16:47:51 <TallTyler> Release time? Somebody needs to approve the changelog PR 😛
16:51:12 <petern> Blah wrong thread really
16:57:48 <TallTyler> I honestly don’t have a strong opinion about whether the 125 is a loco or a DMU
17:07:50 <FLHerne> That one is a recurring argument IRL
17:08:00 <FLHerne> so I don't think OpenTTD is going to solve it
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17:09:45 <NotLuke> TallTyler: a loco when not coupled in a set, a dmu when in a set
17:10:05 <NotLuke> pretty simple to understand tbh
17:12:55 <TallTyler> OpenTTD doesn’t work that way though 😉
17:12:59 <petern> IRL you wouldn't haul non-passengers with one, but this is a game 😄
17:13:41 <ag[d]> Which one's SH125 again?
17:13:57 <petern> Intercity 125, class 43, etc...
17:15:17 <petern> Anyway, no point changing the flags, just use NewGRFs 😄
17:19:26 <LordAro> petern: why was there no issue adding them to the other vehicles?
17:19:45 <LordAro> wasn't even that long ago...
17:21:23 <petern> Dunno, probably nobody has raised that point last time :p
17:22:01 <LordAro> but you added them :p
17:22:25 <petern> Exactly, nobody else raised that point last time.
17:22:41 <TallTyler> How the turn tables
17:23:11 <TallTyler> Hmm, maybe shouldn’t make American version of The Office references here 😛
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17:25:03 <FLHerne> nah, the UK version sucks
17:25:53 <petern> TIM is set to EMU, I was just dumb and had only set DMU colours 😄
17:26:05 <FLHerne> petern: RailAdventure are using four HST power cars solely to haul non-passenger stock now
17:26:34 <FLHerne> (second link in my comment)
17:26:37 <FLHerne> so in my personal opinion that settles the question that they're locomotives :p
17:26:57 <petern> See, that's why I didn't set it originally 🙂
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17:28:42 <TallTyler> Issue tracker go down
17:43:58 <andythenorth> or to quote the TL;DR
17:43:58 <andythenorth> "Oh dear. Train spotters who have to put everything into boxes can’t cope with anything different."
17:44:12 <andythenorth> which doesn't help game design
17:44:29 <andythenorth> this UI doesn't work anyway
17:44:47 <andythenorth> doesn't accommodate hydrogen trains, or multi-mode
17:45:00 <andythenorth> cabooses seem to get pax livery in some cases
17:45:25 <andythenorth> iirc, pax is also applied to mail coaches
17:46:30 <andythenorth> and there's no split between diesel ships and steam ships
17:46:46 <andythenorth> never add features, some idiot will criticise them 20 years later 😛
17:47:20 <petern> Group colours are better anyway ;D
17:48:44 <andythenorth> goes it throw out old ones?
17:49:02 <andythenorth> can we have smart groups?
17:49:09 <andythenorth> rule-based, using filters
17:49:17 <andythenorth> "trains with engines > 50 years old"
17:49:30 <andythenorth> might be some good lolz
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18:09:05 <TallTyler> Any interest in including #10093 before I merge the changelog and do the release?
18:09:37 <petern> Not from me, I switched generator just the other day.
18:13:18 <TallTyler> In world gen or in Settings? (Because it still exists in settings)
18:16:51 <FLHerne> What's the original generator better for?
18:16:59 <FLHerne> I don't think I've actually used it ever
18:20:01 <TallTyler> Let’s release then! 🙂
18:23:31 <TallTyler> Now to wait for actions to complete 🙂
18:36:04 <michi_cc[d]> Last time there was a snag at the publishing step (which is like two repositories indirect), let's cross our fingers (or hope for a Brain to fix it 🙂 )
18:46:17 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:51:16 <petern> FLHerne, it's not better, it's just different.
18:51:40 <petern> Although it does enforce some rules on arctic and desert landscapes that get lost with TGP.
18:54:21 <LordAro> lol translators got missed
18:55:22 <TallTyler> MacOS release action is taking forever
18:56:14 <LordAro> it's technically two builds
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19:02:06 <TallTyler> Hmm, the release seems to have worked on Steam but OpenTTD.org download page only shows beta1
19:05:10 <michi_cc[d]> TrueBrain: I think update-cdn action failed just like last time.
19:05:39 <TrueBrain> what was causing it last time? 😄
19:06:14 <michi_cc[d]> No idea. You said "let my try something" and then it worked 🙂
19:06:32 <TrueBrain> ah, yes, files that shouldn't exist
19:06:43 <glx[d]> you're supposed to "release" website too
19:07:00 <michi_cc[d]> glx[d]: But only after the cdn stuff is done.
19:07:13 <michi_cc[d]> I.e. when the links in the announcement actualyl work.
19:16:30 <TrueBrain> michi_cc[d]: : basically, MacOS copies a few files it didn't before. Those are uploaded to the S3 bucket
19:16:42 <TrueBrain> the workflow generates the index.html, finds these odd files, tries to find their checksum files, which fails
19:16:56 <TrueBrain> those files shouldn't be there, as they are meant as steps between
19:17:09 <TrueBrain> now I thought I removed them last time, but they are still there, so I didn't
19:19:37 <TrueBrain> anyway, fixed manually
19:20:11 <TallTyler> The changelog is at a `cdn.openttd.org` address and works for
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19:22:48 <TrueBrain> the twitter message is a bit weird btw 😛
19:22:55 <TrueBrain> don't know why you would announce beta1 again 😄
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19:24:00 <michi_cc[d]> Download page is updated, you can tag the website away.
19:24:01 <TallTyler> Ninja edit, I don’t know what you’re talking about 😛
19:24:09 <TrueBrain> let's keep it that way 😄
19:25:04 <michi_cc[d]> As soon as the main website has the release post, you may do Discord and Forums, TallTyler 🙂
19:25:07 <TallTyler> 1.4.46? Looks like it just steps up one each release
19:25:09 <michi_cc[d]> I'll do twitter and reddit.
19:25:22 <michi_cc[d]> Yes, the website tag has no further meaning.
19:25:23 <TrueBrain> guess I should do Steam 😛
19:25:45 <michi_cc[d]> It's just a trigger for the Github actions.
19:27:54 <michi_cc[d]> Now we wait for the various publish actions on the website to complete and then we're done 🙂
19:28:31 <michi_cc[d]> And if the update_cdn step doesn't hang, it is a very nice and easy system ❤️
19:29:55 <TallTyler> TrueBrain: Link to the title game competition is broken, I guess Steam doesn’t use Markdown
19:30:12 <TrueBrain> yeah, just noticed; now to find the edit button again 😛
19:30:56 <TallTyler> Website is updated, time for announcements
19:32:04 <TrueBrain> right, when cache expires, link is fixed 😉
19:33:50 <michi_cc[d]> TallTyler: Congrats for your first release. And doesn't even hurt thanks to our resident brain.
19:36:22 <TrueBrain> they are growing up so quick!
19:36:34 <LordAro> are we still aiming for a christmas release?
19:37:27 <michi_cc[d]> Reddit/Twitter done.
19:37:55 <TallTyler> Discord and TT-Forums done
19:37:57 <michi_cc[d]> LordAro: Well, that's what we say for the title game competition.
19:38:34 <TrueBrain> owh, good you mention, I would have forgotten
19:38:38 <LordAro> could probably slip to new years if needed
19:38:59 <LordAro> does windows store get betas?
19:39:39 <michi_cc[d]> Well, unless something is totally broken, branch and RC1 in three weeks, release in four would fit.
19:39:49 <TallTyler> Windows Store was part of the release action, so I assume it's updated
19:40:20 <LordAro> has the titlegame comp had any submissions yet?
19:40:50 <TallTyler> A few, but nobody figured out camera controls 😦
19:44:05 <TrueBrain> tnx for reminding michi_cc[d] 🙂
19:47:14 <TallTyler> In Steam the announcement doesn't have a photo unless you open it, and it's categorized as a Small Update / Patch Notes. Without a photo, it doesn't show up in my library update section. I know Steam is annoying TrueBrain but if you know how to fix this it might be worth it. 🙂
19:47:34 <TallTyler> Given that beta2 has arguably more features than beta1 😉
19:47:36 <TrueBrain> that were way too many things in a single message ...
19:47:46 <TrueBrain> yes, it is a small update; only upon release we make it a major update
19:48:13 <TrueBrain> as it is a small update, this is how Steam renders it; not something I can do anything about
19:48:26 <TrueBrain> it will show up in the library update section when the Steam moderator team pressed some buttons
19:48:36 <TrueBrain> so I know how to fix all those things: by doing absolutely nothing 😄 😄
19:48:44 <TallTyler> Ah, okay 🙂 Just wondering why it didn't match the beta1 post 😄
19:48:58 <TrueBrain> beta1 is a "regular update", to bring the beta-series under the attention
19:49:07 <TrueBrain> if people switch to the testing branch, they will receive the small update automatically
19:49:25 <TallTyler> This is why you're the brain here 🙂
19:49:37 <TallTyler> Many good reasons for why things are done this way
19:49:39 <TrueBrain> no, I just had to deal with all this Steam nuances a few times already 😛
19:55:03 <LordAro> needs writing down somewhere :p
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22:15:28 <Olionkey> TallTyler: nice 666 hours
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23:44:15 <petern> Not sure if I can be bothered to create a view for it 😉
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continue to next day ⏵
