IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-11-25
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07:25:45 <andythenorth> drawing is easy, you just put pixels over other pixels until it looks good
07:26:05 <andythenorth> for about 10 years
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09:26:29 <petern> My 30 minute quick wash has been going to 25 minutes, and has 37 minutes remaining. Oh.
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10:48:52 <pickpacket> I'm pondering making a vehicle NewGRF. Just for fun. I don't know what kind of vehicle(s) to add though
10:58:21 <pickpacket> petern: there is a velomobile NewGRF already
10:58:50 <petern> Right but the game needs cargo bikes.
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11:01:47 <andythenorth> electric cargo bikes
11:01:57 <andythenorth> fuck why has nobody invented that?
11:02:01 <andythenorth> could be like dodgems
11:02:13 <andythenorth> metal floor, metal wheels, big grid in the sky
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11:38:18 <pickpacket> andythenorth: nobody has invented it because the infrastructure is too expensive
11:39:44 <petern> You can click on any of the images to open it in a javascript BBC Micro emulator and watch it draw.
11:58:46 <FLHerne> pickpacket: those Indian things with two rail wheels and one road wheel
11:59:10 <FLHerne> presumably as a roadtype
12:04:32 <pickpacket> FLHerne: those look pretty damn cool!
12:05:14 <FLHerne> with two road wheels and one line of rail wheels
12:06:04 <FLHerne> actually there's a lot of stuff on Douglas Self's site that would make a good "just for fun" grf
12:11:32 <pickpacket> would be fun to add some sort of steam engine that's fast but has a really short lifespan. Although I guess that would be some ultimate cheese if you have vehicle breakdowns turned off
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12:42:32 <petern> Hmm, so I made a function that takes a vector of widths and spits out a vector of rects. Very inefficient, but also makes in-widget layout easier and clearer. Maybe, maybe not.
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12:52:57 <pickpacket> petern: in what way is it inefficient?
12:54:01 <petern> Probably in a way that doesn't matter 😄
13:08:16 <petern> Ah balls, it's not possible to clear text-decoration later 😦
13:09:29 <pickpacket> does the UI use CSS?
13:20:51 <petern> No but my actual work does ;D
13:21:18 <Samu> I've been receiving email notifications about GS/scenario editor issues that I've reported in the past which are now being addressed, but not really
13:21:53 <petern> Okay. Best place to respond is on the issues in github.
13:24:00 <Samu> i already did respond, but something I say is being lost in translations. I either don't express myself well, or you chose to ignore the problems.
13:26:04 <Samu> there will be save/load issues if you allow changing GS/AIs in scenario editor when the loaded scenario has AIs already in them
13:28:17 <Samu> I had proposed locking all AIs / GSs from being edited in scenario editor if loading a savegame as a scenarion in the editor
13:31:09 <Samu> even with a blank scenario from fresh, if you configure a GS on it, then save, and load the scenario back, the GS instance will be active, as there is no method implemented in the GS script code to know whether the instance was started or not
13:33:13 <Samu> the recent "fixes" which are not really fixes at all, is just allowing AIs and GSs to be configurable/changeable in the editor after they've started. That's no fix, it's completely ignoring the underlying issue
13:37:13 <petern> Are you sure you posted on Github issues? I see one issue which is about changeable settings not always being changeable.
13:39:16 <Samu> they were unchangeable for a reason
13:41:18 <petern> That was not what I asked.
13:43:08 <petern> That's a post from 3 years ago, that cannot be about the recent changes to AI/GS settings.
13:43:51 <petern> Your last comment on it was Mar 2019. It was closed 2 weeks ago.
13:45:13 <Samu> well it's funny that James103 is exposing the issues more clearly
13:45:40 <Samu> the kind of trouble that the recent fixes create
13:45:58 <petern> Maybe he's better at producing clear reports than you are. With steps to reproduce. Not just random complaints.
13:47:26 <Samu> that wouldn't happen if the settings were kept unchangeable
13:48:27 <petern> You can delete the game, then you have no bugs with it.
13:48:52 <petern> You literally just did exactly what I said. Random complaints.
13:49:26 <Samu> there needs to be a method to detect whether a GS has started
13:49:33 <Samu> the instance has started
13:50:47 <petern> Create an issue with the problem you want to solve. Don't suggest a solution unless you are
13:53:25 <Samu> I had already created a PR in the past, it was closed :(
13:54:38 <Samu> it partially addressed the issue, but I was goin in the opposite direction, not letting them to be edited in the scenario
13:55:32 <Samu> the reason it was closed was because the PR was too big, had too many changes at once, it was mainly a redesign of the AI config gui
13:55:58 <petern> Follow James103's example. Create an issue that describes the problem at hand, with steps to reproduce the issue.
13:55:58 <Samu> I understand why now, but at the time, I used to do everything in 1 go
13:57:10 <petern> Attach screenshots if you think it'll be useful.
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14:07:11 <Samu> Arastais's answer still boggles my mind :|
14:08:02 <petern> Aww final delivery of dog food before the shop closes down 😦
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14:11:40 <Samu> I am so unmotivated to come back to coding
14:15:32 <tokai|noir> Samu: Tried that GitHub Copilot? Supposedly it does the work for you. :D
14:36:46 <TallTyler> Samu: #7084 looks like it has a lot of useful features. If you ever feel like getting back into coding and submitting those as bite-size PRs (the smaller the better — much easier to review) I'd be interested in working with you to get them merged. 🙂
15:01:08 <petern> Hmm, I think I need more VLANs
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15:39:55 <Eddi|zuHause> can you nest VLANs into VLANs?
15:58:30 <LordAro> that grf upload needs deleting
15:58:47 <LordAro> assuming it's not theirs, i suppose
15:59:29 <Pruple> they've been talking about it in the dev forum, so I assume it is
15:59:51 <Pruple> OTOH I don't know what version of the game the save was made with, but it doesn't appear to be 12.2, since it won't load in the 13 beta
16:00:27 <TallTyler> Odd to post a .zip instead of a link to the repo though 🙂
16:03:01 <Yozora> I didn't upload new fixes to my repo, because it's almost a full code rework
16:05:44 <Yozora> Well I can update it now, old version is available on bananas anyway
16:05:52 <Pruple> I can confirm that in the grf posted the bounding boxes move when reversing the train...
16:08:39 <Pruple> happens with vehicles from some other grfs too, with certain train vehicle combinations.
16:09:12 <Yozora> I have another articulated train with 1+7+1 combination that works perfect
16:10:03 <Pruple> does it depend on the length of the train?
16:10:26 <Yozora> I think it's connected to odd\even numbers of the middle articulated section
16:12:04 <Yozora> With developer tools I can see that 1+7+1 bounding box is in the middle, while 1+6+1 the position changes with direction of the train
16:20:18 <Pruple> there's definitely some rounding error with certain combinations of vehicle lengths and how it calculates where to position the other end of the consist when reversing. 6-6-8 jumps, 6-8-6 doesn't.
16:21:15 <Pruple> whether it's actually a problem worth hunting down and fixing, I couldn't say.
16:22:18 <TallTyler> It would be helpful to record this conversation, or at least the conclusion/partial diagnosis, in the GitHub issue so someone in the future can track down and fix the issue 🙂
16:29:29 <Yozora> TallTyler: Attached a screenshot of the conversation to the github issue
16:36:24 <petern> Better to copy & paste the text, tbh.
16:37:05 <LordAro> but yes, screenshots of text are sad
16:39:05 <petern> So I was looking to get a new HRM when I realised... I already had a spare. Well done.
16:40:57 <petern> Yeah, the data is a bit better now 😄
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17:46:54 <petern> ^^ #10193, what does "bounding box flips" mean anyway?
17:47:18 <petern> They're boxes, they look the same either way, no?
17:56:16 <Pruple> petern: the position of the train changes slightly when reversing a stopped train with certain combinations of vehicle lengths. As originally posted in Discord channel #add-on-development , the example was a nominally symmetrical articulated vehicle where the change in position resulted in the vehicle with graphics attached changing which tile it was on - but the bug, such as it is, isn't limited to articulated vehicles.
17:58:11 <petern> I can't see what the issue is referring to, when looking at the report and those two pictures you attached.
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17:59:07 <Pruple> the trains are both stopped, and then reversed between the images. if you look at the edge of the bounding box nearest the end of the track, you can see it's in a different place on one train in the second image.
17:59:41 <Pruple> the whole train shifts by one movement step when it's reversed
18:01:30 <petern> Ah okay. But not always it seems
18:01:52 <Pruple> always with that particular combination of vehicle lengths
18:03:12 <petern> I have no idea what `AdvanceWagonsBeforeSwap` is doing
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18:04:38 <petern> Although it does look like it shuffles vehicles about.
18:06:19 <petern> Also length 1... I'm sure there used to be mention of a 3/8ths minimum length limit.
18:06:37 <petern> Although that is nothing to do with this.
18:08:49 <Pruple> I thought that too, the wiki said that limitation doesn't apply post OpenTTD 1.0, apparently
18:09:27 <petern> Thanks Windows. Tiling windows side-by-side overlaps...
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18:46:15 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
19:45:18 <andythenorth> Chunky Windows Theme
20:09:41 <petern> Hmm, who decided that "European" and "African" were the correct terms?
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20:29:39 <andythenorth> is there a commit history?
20:30:02 <andythenorth> believe there's a film about that
20:33:51 <LordAro> don't the faces come from TTD? presumably CS then
20:36:10 <petern> They do the strings are ours.
20:37:27 <andythenorth> not sure I want to open that can of worms
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22:20:30 <petern> Okay, doesn't look like it's possible to simply remove the choice from the face designer.
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22:59:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i always thought the main joke about european and african swallows was that a swallow is a migratory bird switching between europe and africa....
23:01:36 <Eddi|zuHause> also, what happened to the japanese/asian faces?
23:12:29 <reldred> But the strings don’t get replaced
23:12:55 <reldred> Can a grf replace strings? That would be nice for the CC changer grf’s
23:25:43 <glx[d]> only in TTDPatch I think
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23:32:49 <petern> Our IDs are not so fixed.
23:37:57 <glx[d]> yeah and even if an ID doesn't change, the parameters may
23:38:59 <glx[d]> (not uncommon to merge a PR introducing more than 700 string warnings)
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23:53:40 <petern> Hmm, my doxygen plugin adds a `@brief` line
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