IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-10-19
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00:52:38 <glx[d]> hmm maybe irc puppet nickname to discord username conversion should not happen for github messages
01:09:45 <dwfreed> I mean, sure, annoying for the discord user, but useful for the other discord users
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02:06:14 <EmperorJake> Yeah I really don't need to get pinged twice every time I comment on github
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03:11:35 <andythenorth> is it lunch though?
03:29:09 <TallTyler> Is it morning already for you?
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08:50:45 <petern> I have an apple, and I must say its working really well, the doctor hasn't visited ever.
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09:52:22 <Eddi|zuHause> can't you just silence notifications on discord if it's a bot?
10:14:21 <petern> That would silence all notifications from the bridge bot, not just DorpsGek.
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10:54:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i'll file that unde "it's complicated"
13:12:27 <pickpacket> Last night I started reworking the animated tea fields. I’m doubling the number of frames to make the movements smoother
13:12:40 <pickpacket> it’s… somewhat taxing
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13:32:51 <TallTyler> frosch: Editor permissions work on a real computer 🙂
13:35:01 <pickpacket> ag: It’s a bit of a long running story by now, but I’m making a NewGRF for tea 😄 tea farm produces tea leaves that go to a tea factory, which in turn produces tea that goes to teahouses to be consumed
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13:36:17 <LordAro> * TallTyler closes everything
13:37:48 <TallTyler> Nah, I'm starting by trying to tag issues properly when I can determine the proper tag (bug, needs triage, enhancement)
14:53:01 <petern> andythenorth: interface scale eh?
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14:59:28 <petern> Interesting range though, 7x to 10x...
15:04:14 <petern> That's basically deliberate, isn't it?
15:08:03 <TallTyler> Yes, but the way it's presented to the player is confusing. The suggested improvement is to make the max loan a >100% percentage of the initial loan amount.
15:17:28 <LordAro> TallTyler: screenshots of discord are not all that helpful :p
15:17:39 <LordAro> the original image is completely unreadable
15:19:52 <TallTyler> Good point. New reply: `I asked the original reporter if this problem still exists, and they said yes.`
15:33:23 <TallTyler> Honest question: is #9933 a legitimate issue? Do we need to support people playing at 640x480 resolution?
15:47:35 <TallTyler> I'm getting five failed annotations checks in #9931 after fixing some indentation in `road_cmd.cpp`. What am I missing?
15:48:09 <TallTyler> ^ these errors are all in `road_cmd.cpp`. No other files in the PR have errors.
15:49:42 <petern> TallTyler: IMHO, it's valid enough when 2x GUI at 1080p is 960x540, minus whatever OS status bar and window decorations are in use.
15:50:12 <petern> (And of course less at 1680x1050)
15:52:54 <TallTyler> glx[d]: I changed a header in `afterload.cpp` from using <> to "", but the path is correct and I don't know why that would cause errors in `road_cmd.cpp`
15:53:52 <petern> That's only signal.h in there that needs <>
15:54:25 <petern> <> means use the include path. it should be "" for local files.
15:56:54 <TallTyler> Right, so I think it's correct now?
15:58:29 <petern> (And was looking at the current file which doesn't have any wrong lines)
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16:02:40 <andythenorth> petern: such font also
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16:17:11 <nielsm> line breaking: I see the above PR update message from the bot, and it breaks right after "Feature: Multi-track", and then my brain inserts "drifting" as the next word
16:17:40 <TallTyler> I've tried that in real life; would not recommend 😛
16:18:10 <nielsm> I've only tried it in Railworks
16:18:21 <nielsm> hmm maybe also in Derail Valley actually
16:21:29 <nielsm> and saying that made me check up on DV, looks like they had a news post recently
16:22:50 <TallTyler> I'm really looking forward to the Simulator update; DV is the only train sim I've ever played that really feels like working on the railroad, despite its generic setting and technology which is so different to what I'm used to. It just captures the feeling.
16:26:18 <nielsm> yeah, all other things I've tried are basically you locked into one or a few preset camera positions, always related to being in the driving cab, and it just seems so "gamey"
16:27:00 <nielsm> Railworks/TS is more like an arcade game where you need to hit the exact right buttons at the exact time to get a perfect score
16:27:50 <nielsm> (and even that is more freedom than japanese Densha De GO, which is pretty much a rhythm game, but you're driving a train and there's no music)
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17:02:58 <TrueBrain> Bouke: please don't make this a feature request ... please don't 😛
17:04:06 <Bouke> TrueBrain: Maybe we could sever articulated vehicles when they crash? 😏
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17:10:09 <TrueBrain> lol, since when can you not endlessly lengthen mIRCs license? This sucks 😛
17:10:25 <TallTyler> I went through all 184 issues and tagged them accordingly (except for a few that no relevant tag quite exists for). I'll work on tagging PRs next, although not today.
17:10:45 <TallTyler> Still stuck on the failed annotations, if anyone wants to take a look 🙂
17:12:41 <TrueBrain> States pretty clearly why it fails honestly 🙂
17:13:52 <TallTyler> I'm either stupid or blind, maybe both 🙃
17:13:58 <TallTyler> What am I looking at?
17:14:51 <TallTyler> I see `Error: 5 annotation(s) found` but no more info
17:16:10 <TallTyler> The depreciated commands? I didn't change those?
17:16:21 <TrueBrain> it doesn't mean those aren't annotations after your PR has run!
17:16:31 <TrueBrain> nobody ever claimed annotations are limited to your changes 🙂
17:16:41 <TrueBrain> they are a result of the actions that run over your PR 🙂
17:17:18 <TallTyler> I'm sorry, I still don't understand what I need to fix 😦
17:17:31 <TrueBrain> I am also not saying you have to fix anything 😄
17:17:50 <Bouke> Your build is failing locally?
17:17:59 <TrueBrain> but those annotations there are triggered on your work .. so some deduction would give me the suspicion it would trigger on any PR 😉
17:18:02 <pickpacket> andythenorth: I heard rumours (I didn't actually hear rumours) that FIRS is going to extend gameplay beyond 2050 with hyperloop trains and somethingsomething :)
17:20:37 <TallTyler> TrueBrain: Oh, I see what you mean. But I rebased #9628 this morning and its actions succeeded
17:21:59 <TallTyler> Maybe I don't understand what Check Annotations does — if it catches compilation errors and was triggered by some other change, wouldn't it be broken for all PRs?
17:22:37 <TrueBrain> I think you have to actually read the warnings you see 🙂
17:22:54 <TrueBrain> it is not like: owh, annotations, I will check in "some other tool" what the problem is 😄
17:23:00 <TrueBrain> it actually says there what the trouble is
17:23:13 <TrueBrain> Windows (windows-2019, x64)
17:23:18 <TrueBrain> I mean .. it even has a link and everything
17:23:28 <TrueBrain> so I am not completely sure how this information is missed in the conversation 😄 Sorry 😛
17:24:21 <TallTyler> But that's seven warnings, and it says `5 annotation(s) found`?
17:24:46 <TallTyler> I also don't understand why that would fail on one PR and not another
17:25:14 <TallTyler> I'm sorry, this is all very foreign to me
17:25:29 <TrueBrain> hihi, it starts with just clicking those links 😄
17:25:39 <TrueBrain> TallTyler: the 6th is a warning in the job doing the annotation checks
17:25:53 <TrueBrain> pretty sure you cannot blame the system for not counting that (as in fact, the annotation doesn't exist yet when it executes)
17:26:08 <TrueBrain> the 7th is an after-thought of GitHub, so there too, not known when the job runs
17:26:31 <TallTyler> So to be clear, annotations related to GitHub actions, not Visual Studio?
17:26:33 <TrueBrain> TallTyler: well, clearly it is a change GitHub made .. so I am pretty sure there is a strong correlation between time and the moment the PRs are failing 🙂
17:26:43 <TrueBrain> TallTyler: did you click the link? 😄
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17:27:04 <TrueBrain> Pretty sure it has nothing to do with code 🙂
17:27:35 <TrueBrain> sorry, I am just having a bit of fun (at your expensive), and I do apologize 🙂
17:27:45 <TrueBrain> but there is more to validation than just your code 🙂
17:27:48 <glx[d]> hmm se-output is a new one
17:27:53 <TrueBrain> the PR checks also validate for other stuff
17:27:59 <TrueBrain> and sometimes GitHub pushes updates
17:28:04 <TrueBrain> and those updates can trigger warnings too, as in this case
17:28:07 <glx[d]> node.js we had it before
17:28:30 <TrueBrain> we check for annotations, as otherwise you might miss those annotations
17:28:37 <TrueBrain> so the checks highlights them a bit more than anything else
17:28:46 <TrueBrain> it is also not a mandatory check, if I am not mistaken
17:29:01 <glx[d]> other annotations are usually inlined in the diff
17:29:12 <TrueBrain> yup; but these are nowhere to be seen otherwise
17:29:18 <TrueBrain> which is really bad; so we highlight them 🙂
17:29:41 <TrueBrain> so yeah, as the GitHub blog says, they deprecated some functionality in GitHub Actions, which we use
17:29:45 <TrueBrain> in result, we now get deprecation warnings 🙂
17:30:11 <TallTyler> So to be clear, I don't have to / cannot fix anything in my PR?
17:30:30 <TrueBrain> I cannot be the judge of that, your PR could destroy the world as far as I know
17:30:35 <TrueBrain> but these warnings are not for your PR to fix 🙂
17:30:48 <TallTyler> Okay, that's good 🙂
17:31:01 <TrueBrain> but I also hope you understand now a tiny bit more what the warnings actually mean 😉
17:31:39 <TallTyler> TrueBrain: I'm only pretending to be a terrible self-taught programmer, you've caught me playing the long con. Yes, I intend to destroy the world, one bus at a time. 😄
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17:32:19 <glx[d]> ah seems the node.js one is fixable
17:32:23 <Bouke> Great, the endless stream of deprecations in CI systems 😩
17:32:39 <TrueBrain> the first in N months, I think it is not that terrible as you make it sound 😉
17:33:06 <frosch> half the system is deprecated there?
17:33:31 <andythenorth> I need to make my OpenTTD compile work
17:33:50 <andythenorth> been up since 3am, today might not be the day 😛
17:34:24 <petern> Pfft, I am also a terrible self-taught programmer, just with nearly 40 years experience...
17:34:52 <pickpacket> Pfft. You don't need to be self-taught to be terrible. *points to self*
17:34:58 <TrueBrain> I want to make an age joke ... can I? Hmm
17:35:11 <petern> I hate that when if the GS pops up the goal window, anything else you were doing is toast
17:35:55 <glx[d]> oh it's not the same node.js as the other time
17:36:17 <andythenorth> petern: lol why does your 40 years self-taught get you better results than mine 😛
17:36:38 <TrueBrain> do you see him make Industry GRFs? 😛
17:38:32 <andythenorth> I saw him make a lot of the industry grf code 😛
17:38:44 <andythenorth> well...I started playing OpenTTD just as that got done
17:39:06 <pickpacket> how long have you all been playing the game?
17:39:16 <andythenorth> since at least 2008
17:39:34 <TrueBrain> DorpsGek: testing before pushing is overrated
17:39:43 <Eddi|zuHause> openttd? around 2006-ish
17:40:01 <petern> Industry NewGRFs was mostly Belugas as far as I know, not me.
17:40:30 <andythenorth> I didn't use grf for first year or so
17:40:45 <andythenorth> it was the period of time when main grf was George's naked-pictures
17:40:58 <andythenorth> so I filed grf under 'risky mods'
17:44:24 <andythenorth> so in latinish european languages
17:44:53 <andythenorth> we switch the name convention for numbers from 16 onwards
17:45:00 <andythenorth> is this some powers of 2 thing?
17:45:28 <andythenorth> e.g. 15 is quince in spanish, then dieciséis
17:45:48 <andythenorth> what does French do?
17:46:23 <andythenorth> oh french has seize
17:47:28 <andythenorth> I thought maybe they'd reached 0x0F
17:48:39 <frosch> english has the power-of-2 stuff
17:48:42 <petern> French has fun with 80 too.
17:48:50 <frosch> jack, gill, pint, quart, pottle, gallon, ...
17:50:35 <frosch> if people like semaphores, they probably like that stuff as well
17:51:19 * glx[d] was lazy in the PR description
17:53:06 <frosch> oh lol, there are even graphviz charts for unit conversion on that wiki page
17:53:30 <frosch> i did not know andy's graphviz obsession is based on english traditions
17:54:22 <andythenorth> is hogshead a unit?
17:54:47 <andythenorth> hmm we should add english units to the refittable capacity flowchart
17:54:57 <glx[d]> using SI is so simpler
17:55:11 <frosch> looks like you are not allowed to measure water in hogsheads
17:55:45 <andythenorth> grf spec needs to support this
17:55:50 <andythenorth> pls update the flowchart
17:56:09 <frosch> of course: 1 wine hogshead = 63 wine gallons, 1 beer hogshead = 54 beer gallons
17:56:11 <glx[d]> no, grf already supports enough weird units
17:57:06 <TrueBrain> I don't want to talk about it ^^
17:57:31 <frosch> oh, in 1688 beer gallons and ale gallons were unified
17:57:43 <glx[d]> "fix", then "really fix", then "really fix for real"
17:58:03 <TrueBrain> I SAID I DONT WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT
18:00:22 <glx[d]> don't look at bushel frosch, it's a volume unit commonly used as weight unit
18:00:53 <frosch> "commonly"? like today?
18:01:49 <glx[d]> (of course civilised countries use T or kg)
18:03:36 <frosch> andythenorth: 15 troy ounces equal 16 tower ounces
18:03:52 <andythenorth> yards are also a volume unit used as a proxy for weight
18:04:08 <andythenorth> and 'tonnage' of ships is a volume measure that does not reflect the weight
18:04:13 <frosch> i thought yard was a length...
18:05:41 <andythenorth> so the US measures e.g. dump trucks in cubic yards
18:05:50 <andythenorth> some countries call the same thing cubes
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18:06:35 <TrueBrain> opinions on ^^ (the functionality, not the code)
18:06:44 <andythenorth> I should implement volume units for some FIRS cargos
18:07:02 <andythenorth> so concrete, aggregate etc is purchased in cubic yards in USA
18:07:10 <TrueBrain> means by default people only disconnect on IRC (after talking in this channel) after they appear offline for 48 hours on Discord
18:08:35 <frosch> it's only fair if the bridge disconnects. i cannot autocomplete irc-users on discord, so they should not be able to autocomplete discord-users on irc
18:09:24 <TrueBrain> haha, well, that is also a way to look at it 😛
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18:09:32 <TrueBrain> no clue if 48 hours is a good balance, but it feels nice
18:11:08 <glx[d]> DorpsGek: TrueBrain is it simple to make an exception so irc nicknames are not translated in these messages ?
18:11:40 <glx[d]> dorpsgek messages on irc
18:11:59 <TrueBrain> sorry, you have to be a bit more clear what you mean
18:12:00 <frosch> 72 or 96 would bridge a whole weekend being offline, but i guess any timeout is good
18:12:23 <frosch> glx[d]: they will be blocked entirely
18:12:41 <frosch> dorpsgek will no longer post on discord, so the highlight won't happen either
18:13:10 <TrueBrain> ah, the reply thing, lol, that was slightly too cryptic to me, sorry 🙂
18:19:08 <TrueBrain> frosch: let's start with 48, and tune the value where needed 🙂 I agree with your reasoning, but I am too lazy to push a new version 😛
18:21:41 <TrueBrain> not going to enable ^^ here, but it is a nice feature request
18:31:26 <TrueBrain> guess it is release time
18:33:02 <TrueBrain> time to disconnect EVERYONE 😛 Bye, see you soon
18:35:46 <Bouke> but yeah I've been maintaining a few python/django packages and the CI required constant baby-sitting.
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18:36:47 <Bouke> professionally we're on Azure DevOps and the platform is just stale. Maybe I'd rather have _some_ deprecations if that would mean we would finally get *gasp* markdown support in bug descriptions.
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18:37:33 <TrueBrain> 33 connections .. that is not bad
18:40:57 <TrueBrain> guess it is time to swap bots in this channel? 🙂
18:44:13 <frosch> no messages were lost, it restarts quick 🙂
18:45:29 <DorpsGek> frosch: dihedral was last seen in #openttd 20 weeks, 0 days, 4 hours, 10 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <dihedral> TrueBrain> was an experiment, but so far .. I am not complaining :) <- doubt :-P
18:45:42 <frosch> oh, i assumed they got blocked
18:45:52 <TrueBrain> it is time to swap, I didn't actually swapped yet 😛
18:50:36 <TrueBrain> right, that should move the announcements from one Discord channel to the other
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18:56:59 <TrueBrain> let's hope I didn't screw something up 😄 But the bots should now be fixed 🙂
19:03:12 <TrueBrain> ah, I never actually deployed the new task definition .. fixing ..
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19:05:25 <TrueBrain> TrueBrainviaGitHub: and what does this do?
19:05:38 <TrueBrain> not sure I improved that situation ....... haha 😄
19:06:22 <TrueBrain> I need to think about that for a bit, to see what a proper solution is there ... 😄
19:07:22 <TrueBrain> right, I asked staff to rename some channels Discord-side, but all should be good now 🙂
19:07:30 <TrueBrain> frosch: check the IRC logs 🙂
19:07:57 <TrueBrain> there is a very funny reply-name in that "and what does this do?" 😄
19:08:21 <frosch> not sure there is a better solution
19:08:37 <frosch> skipping the name does not add more content
19:08:59 <TrueBrain> I was thinking about maybe slugifying names, instead of strippings
19:09:07 <TrueBrain> so it becomes `TrueBrain-via-GitHub`
19:09:12 <TrueBrain> which is still shitty on IRC-side, but less shitty 🙂
19:09:44 <frosch> ah, ok, slugs are cool
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19:10:54 <andythenorth> hmm can I safely symlink in git repos?
19:11:09 <andythenorth> sometimes teaching the compile about shared sprites is more trouble than it's worth 😛
19:11:24 <TrueBrain> Windows and symlinks
19:11:29 <frosch> as long as noone builds on windows
19:11:40 <frosch> though there is a hidden registry setting to enable symlinks on windows
19:11:49 <frosch> and iirc git then also supports them
19:12:03 <frosch> otoh, just declare windows as obsolete
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19:12:24 <bigyihsuan> andythenorth: i've got hardlinks in a git repo for minecraft modpack dev (windows), but the source files are in the repo and the hardlinks elsewhere
19:12:25 <andythenorth> what is windows?
19:12:41 <TrueBrain> those things you never clean
19:12:46 <TrueBrain> so hard to look outside 😦
19:15:09 <TrueBrain> right, that is enough toying around .. at least andythenorth can now unmute Discord channel #openttd-development 😛
19:16:22 <andythenorth> windows...still valid?
19:16:59 <Bouke> andythenorth: working fine for me. You need to opt-in to developer mode I believe to get symlinks to work. Otherwise they'll just end up as text-files with the target as contents.
19:17:25 <Bouke> Previously you had to modify the register indeed, I don't think that's needed anymore.
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19:20:29 <frosch> i counted "developer mode" as "registry thing" :p
19:21:03 <frosch> it's basically a ctrl-click thing
19:21:38 <frosch> TrueBrain: i assumed that other channel would get axed
19:23:50 <TrueBrain> No worries, I do too 🙂
19:51:42 <glx> oh I should have updated the version in `uses: OpenTTD/actions/annotation-check@v2`
19:52:03 <glx> v2 is node12 while v3 is node16
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20:23:00 <TrueBrain> Bit confused why the GitHub hook didn't trigger on Discord .. hmmm
20:24:04 <TrueBrain> I know what I did wrong ..
20:24:20 <TrueBrain> Removed permissions of the wrong hook 😄
20:25:18 <TrueBrain> Hmm, no, as it did arrive on IRC
20:25:31 <TrueBrain> I think Discord just made a booboo
20:38:55 <glx[d]> ha no the nightly fail might be related to my changes
20:40:37 <glx[d]> `client-payload: {"version": "20221018-master-g252111512f", "folder": "openttd-nightlies/2022"}` for last working one, `client-payload: {"version": "", "folder": ""}` for the failing one
20:41:41 <glx[d]> lol an "old" undisplayed notification just arrived in Discord channel #openttd-development
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20:46:39 <glx[d]> indeed something is wrong
21:01:17 <TrueBrain> glx[d]: Some are days old, aren't they?
21:02:27 <TrueBrain> Weirdly enough, I shadow all notifications in a second channel, to see what happens etc.. and there they all arrived as expected
21:02:58 <TrueBrain> So .. only on this Discord it is weird ..
21:03:46 <TrueBrain> No, that is a lie .. some arrive late there too .. just not always the same ones
21:05:13 <petern> frosch: Seems a bit excessive, I like the messages, it was just the highlights that people didn't like, I think.
21:05:21 <TrueBrain> They did arrive in IRC correctly, so it has something to do with the Discord webhook .. odd
21:05:49 <TrueBrain> petern: Don't worry, we replaced them with similar messages 😉
21:06:23 <glx[d]> it wears a disguise now
21:06:28 <TrueBrain> I will never know the answer
21:06:49 <glx[d]> use your router for that 🙂
21:07:11 <frosch> do you still need dhcp with ipv6?
21:07:31 <TrueBrain> Sometimes, I hate you all :p
21:08:11 <frosch> but yes, there are quite some time anomalies in the other channel
21:08:42 <TrueBrain> I guess Discord opened there lost and found
21:08:48 <TrueBrain> And boy, did they find
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21:17:38 <glx[d]> hmm seems to still not work correctly
21:19:19 <glx[d]> ok it's only "broken" in windows actions (powershell issue I guess)
21:50:35 <petern> Ooops, HR reached 186. That's a bit much :/
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22:18:30 <glx[d]> ok notifications are out of order
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23:03:17 <andythenorth> look at the time
23:03:33 <andythenorth> I have been awake for 21 hours, time to be not awake
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continue to next day ⏵
