IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-10-15
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05:59:38 <petern> 11 degrees at 7am, positively balmy
06:22:31 <andythenorth> TallTyler: the ones I will draw move as one unit
06:22:44 <andythenorth> articulated boats are believed to be impossible 🙂
06:22:51 <andythenorth> from the current starting point
07:54:04 <andythenorth> IRL there's no brown dividing the white cabin from the white stripe at the rear
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09:02:53 <FLHerne> well, I think you can export the heightmap and then start a new game with it
09:04:02 <FLHerne> Currently a "scenario" is literally a savegame, with all the side-effects that implies
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09:58:04 <andythenorth> it's harder to provide variety in cabin / house 😛
10:02:52 <FLHerne> you could make some slightly less square ones
10:12:17 <FLHerne> some inland barges have really tiny wheelhouses, no accomodation
10:12:18 <andythenorth> it's kind of ship-like, with the mast isn't it 🙂
10:15:22 <FLHerne> it's a shed with a wheel in it
10:16:06 <FLHerne> (this one is I think a conversion from an unpowered mud hopper, by putting an engine in the back and a shed on top)
10:17:26 <andythenorth> some of the rhine barges have a bow cabin
10:17:47 <andythenorth> that was more or less in FISH
10:18:13 <andythenorth> or whatever it was called
10:18:39 <FLHerne> tbh I think most of your early-generation freighters could do with more sheer, like the Matson is a similar type to my first image but it's got totally horizontal sides
10:18:45 <EmperorJake> Good to see barges finally coming to Sam
10:19:14 <FLHerne> "box with a pointy end" ships are more of a 1980s and later thing
10:19:23 <FLHerne> it would help differentiate them from the barges
10:19:29 <FLHerne> but be harder to draw probably :p
10:20:13 <FLHerne> You could give the later freighters enclosed bridge wings
10:20:24 <andythenorth> I will do generations at some point
10:21:07 <andythenorth> ship 188, the hull is a direct descendant of ship 170 😛
10:21:47 <WoozyDragon4018> unsinkable sam
10:22:03 <FLHerne> it annoys me that the bird on the crest is meant to be a raven
10:22:09 <FLHerne> it's so obviously a cormorant
10:22:21 <andythenorth> I will see if I can make enclosed wings work on ferries
10:22:37 <andythenorth> small vertical projections like that are hard to make work
10:22:45 <andythenorth> they don't 'read' correctly in the sprite
10:23:30 <FLHerne> the fence got in the way from every angle though :-(
10:23:40 <andythenorth> I did do a test of a 1990s ish hull and house
10:23:52 <FLHerne> (the lantern is a lightship behind it)
10:23:59 <andythenorth> was that a mersey ferry?
10:24:32 <FLHerne> I haven't found out yet :
10:26:17 <FLHerne> the '90s one looks good
10:26:44 <FLHerne> except the lack of bridge wings looks odd, but if *you* say they're hard to draw I believe you :D
10:27:56 <FLHerne> I guess the little Tjalk/Luxemotor/etc Dutch barges are a bit small for your set
10:28:09 <FLHerne> there are dozens of those along here
10:30:38 <FLHerne> oh yeah, forward-angled house windows on some variants might add variety
10:31:54 <FLHerne> oh, the Whitgift is supposed to be that size?
10:32:04 <FLHerne> I've never quite got a handle on the scale of your ships :p
10:32:11 <FLHerne> ^that size -- Chub size
10:33:26 <FLHerne> the tiny freighter I linked first is a similar horizontal size to Chub
10:34:01 <FLHerne> so I've always thought of the Matson (or whatever the FISH/SQUID equivalent was) as being that size
10:35:51 <FLHerne> which would make the Whitgift a canal boat of some type - probably bigger than a narrowboat, but something like the 10ft-beam boats the GuCCC experimented with
10:50:30 <andythenorth> Sam is roughly 1 pixel per metre in – view
10:50:37 <andythenorth> there's some necessary compression / expansion
10:50:51 <andythenorth> and ships are notoriously hard to judge the size of, like bulldozers
10:51:14 <andythenorth> [insert Father Ted cows sketch]
10:56:26 <petern> LordAro: Shame, I got back just after the rain started...
10:57:28 <petern> andythenorth: Eh, no, just nobody bothered implementing. They are a niche market.
11:01:19 <andythenorth> how would they turn and stuff at docks though? 😛
11:02:27 <FLHerne> meh, OTTD doesn't have locks
11:02:45 <FLHerne> it has weirs that ships can mysteriously travel up, perhaps with big winches on the bank
11:11:56 <petern> FLHerne, boats do stop, just there's no animation for the gates.
11:12:19 <FLHerne> petern: that's to connect the tow cables to the winches :p
11:12:28 <petern> And they're still bi-di 🙂
11:12:53 <petern> We could fix it and NERF boats because they're soooo good already...
11:14:15 <FLHerne> I don't think anything will make inland boats actually balanced
11:14:23 <FLHerne> so the other reason people will buy them is for Realism™
11:14:33 <FLHerne> and better locks would help with that
11:15:03 <petern> Ooh I hit 183 BPM, on the sprint to the cafe
11:15:25 <petern> Normally that's reserved for steep MTB climbs
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12:07:53 <andythenorth> have we changed government yet today?
12:07:58 <andythenorth> it's almost past lunch
12:23:46 <petern> I am lunching right now
12:24:11 <andythenorth> ok I should lunch
12:24:17 <andythenorth> then we should change the government again
12:52:27 <petern> Hmm, should I visit the record shop?
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13:52:53 <camthesaxman> Why are canals so damn expensive?
13:53:33 <camthesaxman> They aren't even the most useful route. Boats are slow.
13:57:52 <andythenorth> add a grf that fixes them 😛
13:59:47 <andythenorth> lol I broke the sprite sorter petern look at my skills 🙂
14:06:07 <camthesaxman> Trains and planes are very cheap for their speed.
14:08:17 <petern> Perfectly balanced gameplay
14:19:14 <andythenorth> petern: should I make NERF.grf?
14:19:17 <andythenorth> what does it do?
14:21:15 <camthesaxman> I've been finding this game really easy on default settings. I always end up debt free by the 1970s and completely swimming in cash by 1980 wondering what to do with it. Are there any good NewGRFs to up the difficulty?
14:24:48 <andythenorth> try different gameplay goals
14:25:03 <andythenorth> NoCarGoal, Silicon Valley, Deliverance
14:25:18 <andythenorth> or city builders
14:25:51 <camthesaxman> City building sounds fun. Seeing how much of the map I can cover in urban jungle
14:27:55 <camthesaxman> I'm used to Roller Coaster Tycoon where you have objectives in each scenario, and some of those can get challenging (as long as you don't use cheap exploits).
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18:28:46 <pickpacket> andythenorth: I made lots of changes last night, but forgot to save and then my computer froze and I had to reboot 😆
18:29:34 <pickpacket> I learned a lot working from your idea, so starting over a bit feels quite okay
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18:39:59 <andythenorth> all sprites are destined to get redrawn anyway 😛
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18:47:30 <andythenorth> all my grf belong to redraw
18:47:50 <andythenorth> goes it throw out....something?
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19:19:19 <FLHerne> camthesaxman: You can make the early years very challenging just by changing the cost multipliers with the BaseCostsMod grf - there's a multiplayer server if you want to play with that with settings carefully tuned to make it tricky but possible
19:19:49 <FLHerne> the problem is that all the game mechanics except infrastructure maintenance are a positive feedback loop
19:21:03 <FLHerne> so once you do start making any profit it still tends to spiral
19:28:48 <camthesaxman> It's a bit similar in real world economics.
19:30:18 <camthesaxman> The startup years of a company are very tough, but once it gets to be a big player, it has more clout and money to buy up smaller companies and expand its business to more and more customers.
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21:37:49 <petern> Oof, that's an interesting bug that I've never experienced before.
21:38:58 <petern> I switched language and the palette got reset to black, but palette animation is working so I can only see pixels which are animated
21:40:29 <FLHerne> petern: you accidentally fixed andythenorth's "can't find the mistakenly animated pixels" bug
21:40:46 <FLHerne> literally, that came up the other day :D
21:42:59 <petern> This is so weird. I wonder how I did it...
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23:17:54 <petern> Hmm, does it in master too.
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