IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-10-14
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00:10:38 <wallabra> Engines are expensive with 2cc trains but if I just make big long trains they chug on slopes
00:10:46 <wallabra> And this particular region is veeery mountainous
00:11:06 <wallabra> Using multiple trains, or even multiple engines on a single train, would be too expensive
00:33:30 <Eddi|zuHause> you always need multiple trains. if one train leaves the station, the next one should be ready to load
00:33:48 <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise the drop in station rating will hurt everything
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01:41:04 <wallabra> Eddi|zuHause, but what about very busy stations? Wouldn't I need a lot of lanes for those?
01:43:14 <Eddi|zuHause> how are these two scenarios related? either you're so strapped on cash that affording even one single more train will bankrupt you, or your stations are so busy that they overflow
01:56:55 <wallabra> but Eddi|zuHause what you said implies that I should set them to 'full load'
01:57:57 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. however, there's a careful balance of "if they take too long to fill up, you should shorten the trains"
02:00:00 <glx[d]> use full load, except for passengers
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03:57:41 <wallabra> how should I go about making a railway roundabout, if at all?
04:28:59 <TallTyler> Train roundabouts are quite inefficient
04:29:49 <TallTyler> I’ve never used one but if you really want to, I’d put a path signal before each entrance and not place any signals inside the roundabout itself
04:41:38 <wallabra> All railways into it are two-way so there is always a way out
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06:34:24 <pickpacket> The real railways were the ones we made along the way
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07:01:14 <petern> Building railways as if they were roads...
07:55:30 <pickpacket> I’m all alone on the Kelium95 Vanilla server
07:56:08 <pickpacket> it’s 1.10.3 and no NewGRFs. No trams
07:57:22 <pickpacket> I don’t quite understand why the company performance rating counts the lowest income vehicle as a parameter. Buses are basically useless in that case
07:57:49 <pickpacket> I’ve never had a bus make even close to £10,000 a year
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08:19:22 <LordAro> pickpacket: this is why it's hard!
08:21:50 <petern> "SSE blitters:" isn't a supported annotation.
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08:47:11 <Bouke> I used JGR’s original commit message, but I’ll change it to “Fix:”.
09:17:57 <FLHerne> pickpacket: vast majority of multiplayer is usually on the latest version, which is 12.2 atm
09:18:03 <FLHerne> probably you know that :-)
09:18:57 <petern> There's a few Debian users who don't want to install non-Debian-official packages.
09:22:05 <petern> I was going to write "refuse", but I think that's too loaded 🙂
09:38:40 <pickpacket> FLHerne: I do :) this server has had 2-5 players regularly for the pas couple of weeks, though
09:38:48 <pickpacket> weird to be alone on it
09:53:40 <pickpacket> petern: I got the latest version from the official testing repo. Running that on my laptop and the older version on my RPi
09:57:44 <LordAro> nothing for arm though
09:57:48 <LordAro> does it even run on RPi?
09:58:00 <LordAro> does it even run at a decent rate on RPi?*
10:02:12 <petern> I think I had an Athlon 800 when I first started developing on this.
10:02:50 <LordAro> i think today's OTTD would struggle on the average computer of 2004
10:03:43 <petern> Okay but should I get a convertible spring/autumn jacket, or a full-on winter jacket...
10:04:08 <LordAro> depends how well you deal with the cold normally
10:04:47 <LordAro> full on winter jacket would be too much for me if it's above freezing
10:04:54 <LordAro> and if it's below freezing, i'm not going out...
10:05:58 <petern> Summer jersey is 125g/m2, convertible jacket is 160g/m2, winter jacket is 305g/m2, which is not directly relatable to warmth, but...
10:06:05 <LordAro> i do have leg warmers, but i only need them below 5C
10:06:11 <LordAro> it's a pretty narrow operating window
10:06:32 <petern> Yeah, legs are usually fine unless it's really cold.
10:36:22 <Eddi|zuHause> wallabra: there are two main reasons why train roundabouts make no sense: 1) roundabouts need to be significantly bigger than the longest vehicle that passes them, and 2) trains can't negotiate their speed so that when two train meet neither has to stop
11:25:16 <petern> Train junctions should mostly be at stations for realism 😉
11:54:59 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should check out "berlin outer ring" for some "unrealistic" junctions like cloverleafs :p
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12:42:59 <pickpacket> LordAro: it runs perfectly on my RPi 3B at least
12:43:34 <pickpacket> I’ve been meaning to ask about the system requirements for the game, actually. Does anyone have a clue?
12:46:06 <LordAro> a 64-bit or ARM processor is a good start
12:46:17 <LordAro> but i think we still do 32-bit windows builds...
12:46:49 <LordAro> the limiting factor is usually "does this platform have a C++17 capable compiler", rather than the system itself
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13:10:22 <camthesaxman> There was a port to the DS at one point.
13:12:14 <camthesaxman> 32-bit x86 and ARM are C++17 capable.
13:13:51 <FLHerne> as usual, I'll speak up for my 133MHz, 64MB-of-RAM Powerbook 1400
13:14:07 <FLHerne> it was perfectly playable
13:14:29 <FLHerne> although liblzma wouldn't compile for some reason so no savegame compression
13:15:06 <FLHerne> Does the Steam page still say "CPU: yes" ?
13:16:30 <FLHerne> it does > Processor: Yes
13:17:28 <camthesaxman> Are there still Windows XP builds of OpenTTD?
13:20:31 <LordAro> not ones that we make
13:20:58 <LordAro> Required Windows SDK versions have been increased to the point where it's quite difficult now
13:22:02 <camthesaxman> Why not just use MinGW?
13:22:38 <camthesaxman> gcc tends to optimise better than msvc anyway
13:22:48 <LordAro> a possibility if you're compiling yourself
13:22:57 <LordAro> we're not going to publish binaries made via mingw
13:23:22 <LordAro> although even MINGW/MSYS2 is probably going to be difficult to run on XP these days
13:23:29 <LordAro> they're about to drop support for Win7
13:24:16 <camthesaxman> It doesn't need to *run* on it; just needs to produce binaries that will.
13:24:57 <camthesaxman> Debian still has a 32-bit OpenTTD package. I can try that on my old PC.
13:27:20 <LordAro> i believe that's how nielsm made the last XP binary
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13:29:57 <camthesaxman> I barely use Windows anymore. Last time I developed a Windows app, I just cross compiled on Linux and mostly tested it with Wine.
13:30:17 <glx[d]> IIRC default minimum runtime for mingw was vista
13:35:03 <camthesaxman> C++ also pulls in a lot of strange dependencies. My program was a mix of C and C++, and just using std::map pulled in some exception crap, which then required a bunch of libstdc++ and pthread DLLs for the Windows build. Mind you, I had exceptions disabled.
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13:37:31 <glx[d]> Ah no it defaults to win 7 (just checked our sources)
13:37:49 <camthesaxman> I was able to get rid of the pthread crap by statically linking libstdc++.
13:46:06 <camthesaxman> Rust libraries are even worse, with these huge webs of dependencies.
13:46:14 <Eddi|zuHause> just that you disabled exceptions in your program doesn't mean they are also disabled in the library you load
13:46:42 <LordAro> camthesaxman: just the same as all the various python/js/etc snaffus, just more obvious because compiled
13:47:24 <camthesaxman> Don't get me started on Node. That's by far the worst.
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16:14:54 <pickpacket> camthesaxman: my laptop is a 32bit debian machine. Works great
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17:23:53 <camthesaxman> Yeah, I imagine a potato PC from 2004 would have no trouble running OpenTTD.
17:24:27 <camthesaxman> It might start to struggle if you have an advanced AI or put thousands of trains.
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17:34:20 <andythenorth> what's your inspiration?
17:35:49 <andythenorth> ok so divide up the walls
17:35:53 <andythenorth> I'll draw something
17:36:15 <andythenorth> pickpacket can you post the actual sprites, not a zoomed screenshot?
17:38:31 <petern> No YouTube algorithm, I shouldn't watch Lego diorama videos...
17:39:00 * petern watches a guy build a harbour...
18:01:52 <andythenorth> pickpacket, something like
18:02:08 <andythenorth> note that I reduced the building size slightly in / direction
18:18:07 <andythenorth> sprites are horrific, much work needed
18:18:46 <petern> These should be taking off from airports.
18:21:01 <andythenorth> how far can bounding boxes extend?
18:21:26 <petern> how far can my belly extend?
18:23:54 <petern> Should I build an XP farm, or will that just break the game...
18:34:15 <petern> Should I get on with chunky bevels?
18:39:57 <andythenorth> oof I should know how to sprite by now
18:40:26 <andythenorth> Columbus T Clipping
18:40:31 <andythenorth> is the full name
18:40:39 <andythenorth> such default buy menu width
18:56:15 <petern> Ahhh, the drum solo...
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19:16:25 <andythenorth> ok just need to sort the hull, the wheel house, and the everything
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19:36:16 <petern> Sort out hull, and then the Humber
19:39:57 <petern> Minecraft shaders bring my 2080Ti to its knees...
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19:42:44 <andythenorth> Kingston Communications
19:55:59 <pickpacket> andythenorth: sorry, I got caught up in phone calls. I'll have a look your pics now :)
20:00:02 <pickpacket> andythenorth: holy cow!!! It's gorgeous!
20:02:51 <andythenorth> it's just a shading pattern 🙂
20:02:56 <pickpacket> andythenorth: I've had real problems trying to get the measurements right in both directions.
20:03:04 <pickpacket> Pfft! Don't be modest!
20:05:57 <pickpacket> andythenorth: how did you figure that it needed shortening?
20:06:38 <andythenorth> drew a horizontal line across the / face
20:06:48 <andythenorth> the roof was 2 pixels too long on right side
20:07:30 <andythenorth> demonstration on the other sprite
20:08:28 <pickpacket> I've noticed that the measurements just don't add up, but I've had real problems trying to pinpoint the reason
20:09:55 <pickpacket> in all fairness my brain hasn't been working too well since I was asked to sign divorce papers Tuesday morning :P
20:09:55 <petern> Would building on Linux be quicker...
20:11:46 <petern> Divorced due to OpenTTD pixel-art obsession
20:14:45 <andythenorth> hopefully not all
20:15:00 <andythenorth> sorry to hear that pp
20:15:20 <andythenorth> hate these things
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20:23:56 <petern> What is going on here... what.
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20:38:45 <pickpacket> petern: she claims other circumstances but I definitely think you're right.
20:39:28 <pickpacket> andythenorth: thanks. It's been a rollercoaster (and will be for a while), but we both think it's the right thing to do. It's very amicable, and the kids took it well when we told them today
20:55:22 <petern> Oh of course, 0 isn't -1.
21:01:31 <petern> Smallmap nested widgets are weird. They are set up to be built dynamically for different layouts (like the original TTD has) but that is not implemented, so it's just extra functions and complication for no reason.
21:02:21 <petern> Not sure if it was implemented and then then removed though.
21:07:02 <petern> I guess I should undo removing font scale.
21:07:08 <andythenorth> this is slightly less horrific now
21:07:43 <petern> (separate font scale that is)
21:24:45 <petern> Wondering if I should try making the dotted section chunky...
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21:33:38 <petern> I dunno. Is that in Bananas?
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21:58:53 <andythenorth> hmm chunky barge
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22:11:04 <petern> I wanted to get on with chunky but failed to motivate again 😦
22:14:13 <andythenorth> come in barge 109, your time is up
22:28:06 <petern> Or does Timberwolf hold exclusive rights for such things
22:29:42 <andythenorth> I am happy to not 2x
22:42:20 <TallTyler> Do barges and tugboats need articulated boats to be patched in, or are they typically lashed together tight enough where they move as one unit?
23:02:54 <argoneus> hi, is there a way to load a scenario map but keep my own settings?
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