IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-10-02
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00:02:45 <TallTyler> JSON parsing is complete and error messages seem to work. Tomorrow I'm on the train, so maybe Monday I'll start funding cities based on the data. 😄
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07:03:27 <petern> How much will that cost?
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08:24:44 <andythenorth> FIRS Steeltown high score gets closer...
08:26:16 <andythenorth> Welding Supplies: WELD, or WESP?
08:26:32 <andythenorth> for consistency, Engineering Supplies and Farm Supplies are ENSP and FMSP
08:34:59 <andythenorth> leave one for Regearing?
09:13:04 <Eddi|zuHause> when have you considered the last time "less is more"?
09:13:21 <Eddi|zuHause> also, regearing is a BAD FEATURE
09:14:15 <Eddi|zuHause> also, you can now reach the same effect with refit to passengers, but set capacity to 0
09:15:03 <Eddi|zuHause> that is still a BAD FEATURE
09:18:22 <andythenorth> it's just something taught to people as a design shortcut
09:18:33 <andythenorth> it's the equivalent of "wax-on, wax-off"
09:19:11 * andythenorth lost in youtube now
09:20:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i know that scene
09:24:55 <andythenorth> I could split ACID for the 64th cargo 😛
09:25:01 <andythenorth> Hydrochloric and Sulphuric
09:25:07 <andythenorth> leave one cargo for god
09:28:40 <andythenorth> I do a lot of manual book-keeping crap to try and prevent cargos 1:1 overlapping on this chart
09:28:45 <andythenorth> I think it might be wasted effort 😛
09:37:10 <andythenorth> all it does is distort the gameplay, because the only way to make room is to inflate the payment rate for some cargos
09:47:36 <andythenorth> it has no bearing on reality currently 😛
09:47:42 <andythenorth> 'probably correct'
09:48:11 <andythenorth> but the payment rate for Chlorine is *much* lower than the payment rate for Rebar
09:48:48 <andythenorth> one is a hazardous complicated cargo, the other is commodity
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11:54:13 <frosch> i did not know that there is so much stuff inside the water tank
11:56:04 <frosch> the hn thread has even better images linkes
12:38:05 <petern> LordAro: oh kneeeeeees
12:54:31 <FLHerne> A steam loco boiler is a heat exchanger, you need lots of surface area
12:55:39 <FLHerne> the horizontal boiler with lots of small fire tubes was probably the most revolutionary feature of Rocket
12:55:48 <FLHerne> and it hasn't really changed since
12:56:04 <FLHerne> now I'm wondering if dibridge handles italics
12:57:12 <frosch> there is a weird character in front of Rocket, but no italics
12:58:19 <LordAro> petern: another 110 miles on it would've been a bad idea
12:58:30 <frosch> oh, it's even a non-printable, group separator?
12:58:31 <LordAro> doesn't make it any less frustrating though
13:06:59 <LordAro> time i gave a physio a call
13:26:56 <petern> Be careful. The usual remedy is "well just stop cycling"
13:29:42 <andythenorth> 'This hurts...so stop doing it"
13:30:36 <petern> Dumb for cycling, as it is a low-impact sport, and not exercising is likely to make things worse.
13:33:54 <LordAro> mm, the guy i have in mind also does bike fits and other bike specific things, so i'm generally safe from that
13:37:02 <andythenorth> what have you broken?
13:40:37 <petern> andythenorth: my take on it judging by LordAro's strava, he's ridden a lot and pushed too hard 😄
13:41:52 <petern> Hmm, switch to SPD-SL (or similar) pedals, or get 3 bolt to 2-bolt adapter...
13:42:17 <petern> Seems like the wrong time of year to switch to SPD-SL.
14:04:27 <LordAro> andythenorth: some back-of-knee pain, had to abandon ride this morning
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14:27:50 <petern> Rebasing 116... getting mroe :/
14:28:36 <petern> If I was clever and actually planned what to do then this would be simple.
14:29:06 <petern> Instead I keep finding missing bits, something else to add, or some other way to do something I did as a hack originally...
14:30:35 <andythenorth> if we were all better 😛
14:30:37 <andythenorth> we would be better
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14:49:51 <petern> /me turns off autosave
14:50:19 <petern> Actually typed into english.txt, undid it but autosave boom
15:05:17 <petern> We could do with a grid widget layout, but there's only a few instances where it'd be needed.
15:06:54 <andythenorth> actual FIRS comment
15:06:54 <andythenorth> `# ACID was dropped`
15:07:51 <petern> Because at 1x, I'm still seeing 4x sprites...
15:08:27 <petern> Hmm I see, it forces the low resolution sprites to be scaled up.
15:09:12 <petern> Doesn't make aBase look any better
15:09:40 <JGR> That setting is really only for Timberwolf's trains and similar
15:09:47 <JGR> Probably it should not have been added at all
15:09:51 <petern> It does highlight that aBase is badly put together.
15:10:14 <petern> It's probably fine, I should've read the description first.
15:10:22 <petern> Probably could expand on the description a bit as well.
15:12:06 <andythenorth> I play-tested and stuff
15:12:18 <andythenorth> everything flows left-to-right mostly
15:12:51 <andythenorth> can't find a 64th cargo though, or at least not one that doesn't make spiders all over the cargoflow graph
15:17:23 <petern> For aBase we could do with a "fix all the stupidly bad offsets"
15:17:54 <petern> I'd have a go at fixing the set, but I hate it too much to even look
15:20:16 <andythenorth> shame we can't ban it 😛
15:20:40 <petern> Censorship! Free speech!
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15:22:45 <petern> Press Ctrl-B, see half the bounding boxes messed up.
15:24:52 <petern> What are dimensions anyway?
15:29:15 <JGR> Because of the unique way that sprite sorting works, having bounding boxes of the correct size is often not the correct thing to do
15:30:13 <petern> Those bounding boxes are the correct size in this case.
15:32:10 <petern> Stupid default graphics 😉
15:41:22 <petern> ScaleGUITrad(8) suggests I've not random spacing somewhere 😄
15:42:22 <andythenorth> the lolz of bounding boxes
15:42:34 <andythenorth> when I started grf, I spent a lot of time lining up sprites to match them
15:42:42 <andythenorth> 'wrong' andythenorth
15:44:37 <petern> The aBase sprites are clearly going for that stubby look instead.
15:44:52 <petern> As if the default sprites aren't stubby enough 😄
15:52:56 <andythenorth> /me adventures in src
15:53:04 <andythenorth> how hard can it be to find the object ID limit? 😛
15:54:23 <andythenorth> on the other hand 😛
15:54:38 <andythenorth> what are triangle-bracket params? 😛 `typedef Pool<Object, ObjectID, 64, 0xFF0000> ObjectPool;`
15:55:17 <andythenorth> some sort of template params?
16:04:06 <petern> I guess that's objects rather than object definitions.
16:09:12 <andythenorth> doesn't seem to be much to objects
16:09:44 <andythenorth> other than NUM_OBJECTS_PER_GRF I can't see anything what would explicitly limit to a byte
16:09:57 <andythenorth> maybe it's more upstream in grf actions?
16:10:32 <andythenorth> "limited to 255 to allow extending Action3 with an extended byte later on." suggests that maybe it's in Action 3?
16:10:47 <andythenorth> is it fixed in JGRPP?
16:16:22 <JGR> Wouldn't be much point in me doing that when object set authors presumably want their sets to work with vanilla
16:19:32 * andythenorth reading about extended action 3
16:20:58 <andythenorth> would that require a grf version bump?
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16:26:50 <petern> No, that's specially why the value 255 is disallowed (0-254 is 255 objects)
16:27:47 <petern> `_cur.grffile->objectspec = CallocT<ObjectSpec*>(NUM_OBJECTS_PER_GRF);`
16:28:33 <petern> This structure might need tweaking, as 64000 is a lot more than 255.
16:28:59 <petern> On the other hand, I have 64GB RAM so what do I care.
16:31:07 <petern> Random brands on Amazon is all the rage.. this one "SMajong"...
16:31:39 <petern> I wonder if they make SManecrift.
16:32:16 <frosch> EntityIDMapping will also need changed, so you need at least a savegame bump
16:49:48 <petern> Group window sizing is bonkers. Manually calculating the dimensions of other widgets...
16:51:47 <petern> I guess because SetFill doesn't know which widgets to prioritize.
16:54:01 <supermop_Home> andythenorth doing some steeltown
16:57:55 <petern> Bloody Windows, moving my windows from one desktop to another by itself.
16:58:24 <petern> No, I don't need VS Code with OpenTTD on it on the same virtual desktop as VS Code with work shit.
16:59:02 <petern> (CBA to use a separate computer, the work laptop is nice enough but shit for coding on )
17:36:25 <petern> Fuck sake, just opened a 500g pack of granola, and then it fell off the worktop all over the floor...
18:05:12 <petern> Hmm, strange, prioritizing larger fill size first actually seems to work.
18:05:14 <andythenorth> hot tub is leaking
18:05:34 <petern> I'm throwing £3 packets of cereal on the floor
18:05:42 <petern> You're leaking water from a hothub...
18:05:47 <andythenorth> or in the case of my hot tub, deflation
18:06:22 <petern> The resize algorithm currently divvies up space equally, but does larger fill size first.
18:07:09 <petern> I'm feeling my change shouldn't work, but it seems to, so something is coincidentally helping it work.
18:08:14 <petern> If size adjustment isn't enough to resize the largest fill size, then it will have to fill in the smaller fill sizes. But I guess the resize step takes care of that.
18:09:18 <petern> Anyway that change means the group gui window doesn't need to manually calculate the height of other widgets in the window, which seems better.
18:11:17 <petern> Hmm, and if the window resize step is 10, and there are two widgets with a resize step of 10, then only one widget can resize at a time. I wonder what makes that work so that it's spread out.
18:12:55 <andythenorth> supermop_Home: If I'd seen this earlier, you could have had a test of the new version 😛
18:13:06 <andythenorth> "Steeltown - Full WTF?"
18:14:13 <petern> Also the small font seems to have a manually implement space "glyph"
18:14:38 <petern> Hmm, no, not space glyph, just the inter-character spacing. Hmm.
18:15:13 <andythenorth> if we had a 'is this industry happy?' callback
18:15:25 <andythenorth> we could display it as a column in the industry list
18:15:37 <andythenorth> helping the player find industries that are pissed off about something
18:15:46 <petern> Oh I see, GetGlyphWidth adds the space between characters, whcih isn't needed for FS_NORMAL because the shadow makes up that space.
18:15:51 <andythenorth> for example, not getting the cargos they want
18:16:05 <andythenorth> or industries that might close soon
18:16:43 <petern> Maybe it's not so bad that letters are spaced further apart.
18:17:14 <frosch> andythenorth: there is a precedent for that. cb 14d is the most hidden callback
18:17:34 <frosch> quite sure noone except the set authors ever noticed its usage
18:19:12 <andythenorth> industry name is a callback....
18:19:16 <andythenorth> could just compose
18:19:30 <andythenorth> "Ambleweed Machine Shop (Tripping)"
18:19:57 <andythenorth> "Rumbleweed Pipework Fabricator (Outrageously Pissed Off)"
18:20:12 <andythenorth> oh no, it's a static property, boo
18:20:12 <petern> Can we get LINQ in c++? 😄 `widgets.Where(x => x.StepSize == stepSize).Count();` is a lot less code...
18:20:25 <petern> (Never mind perfomrance...)
18:27:11 <andythenorth> how am I still playing this game in 2050? 😛
18:30:36 <TallTyler> Oh how the time flies
18:30:44 <TallTyler> Oh, you mean in-game 😛
18:45:40 <andythenorth> how to transport Concrete Products?
18:47:05 <andythenorth> I have 27 kinds of cargo for building buildings
18:47:13 <andythenorth> but the game really doesn't care 😄
18:47:52 <petern> Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
18:48:09 <petern> Should we revert back to Hackykid's PBS?
18:50:04 <andythenorth> TallTyler: ITL + FIRS was a thing we were going to do? 😛
18:51:54 <frosch> the java port has the old pbs
18:52:10 <frosch> wasn't it advertised as superior?
18:53:51 <andythenorth> what shall I do for a 64th cargo? 😛
18:54:44 <frosch> haha, which bridge direction was faster?
18:55:45 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
19:03:31 <petern> Did that deliberately use Hackykid's PBS, or was it just ancient?
19:04:11 <petern> I stumbled across the 3D implementation thread the other day. I had no idea someone had done that.
19:13:51 <frosch> noone knows why the java port picked the revision they picked
19:14:20 <frosch> i think it was just some random revision they found a tarball from
19:17:44 <andythenorth> 64th cargo: bridges
19:20:53 <andythenorth> hmm Concrete Plant. I sketched one in 2008 😛
19:21:36 <andythenorth> what year is it now?
19:22:57 <andythenorth> seems I took a photo of one recently too 😛
19:37:10 <andythenorth> hmm only 6 new industries to draw 😛
19:37:34 <andythenorth> all of them approximately this, but different 😛
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20:20:24 <andythenorth> 98 variations of grey roof
20:50:32 <petern> 98 shades of grey roof
20:51:21 <andythenorth> I should remap the palette
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21:05:16 <andythenorth> premap the raclette
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21:09:51 <andythenorth> lol every train on my map is stuck
21:09:58 <andythenorth> they all decided to try and reach inaccessible depots
21:11:02 <andythenorth> absolutely no chance I accidentally clicked 'send for servicing' 😛
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23:00:27 <petern> 🎶 Midnight at the discord
continue to next day ⏵
