IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-10-01
โด go to previous day
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00:38:52 <Olionkey> petern: ``` waits ```
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08:42:23 <andythenorth> what label for Pipework or Pipe Assemblies?
08:42:46 <andythenorth> Pipework is Pipe fabricated into useful things
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09:38:04 <Bouke> andythenorth: Being new to C++ myself and thus having to spend time on learning the language/stdlib, Iโd rather spend that time learning Rust.
10:17:51 <frosch> pickpacket: as tyler said, cargos have id collisions. when the limit for cargos as increased from 32 to 64, i had plans to make the cargo ids grf-local. but that became useless pretty fast, when firs filled up the 64 slots almost instantly. increasing the 64 limit is basically impossible without breaking a lot of apis, like all game-scripts. and without enough slots to load multiple cargo sets, making the ids local is not that useful
10:36:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Bouke: just learn both simultaneously, there's a huge overlap between languages, so learning two isn't much more involving than learning just one
10:40:59 <Eddi|zuHause> why are you saying that as if it just trashed your kitchen?
10:41:10 <andythenorth> 7 year NoCarGoal game about to start on Pruple's server
10:41:20 <andythenorth> maybe TrueBrain could play the game? ๐
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12:08:35 <petern> Well I did a bike activity, now just waiting
12:12:06 <TallTyler> Did I miss the game?
12:22:51 <petern> Hmm think I'm gonna need the massage gun
12:25:20 <petern> I got the average speed up in the last 30km, now my legs are nope
12:52:41 <pickpacket> frosch: Iโm worried about id collisions for my newgrf since Iโll be adding two new cargo types but donโt want to replace the default set
12:53:14 <pickpacket> Of course Iโm going to test stuff but I havenโt had time to get that far yet
12:53:31 <petern> Is it much work to implement the ID manager stuff?
12:53:45 <petern> I did look at it for NewGRF docks but it seems a bit magic ๐
12:54:59 <frosch> id manager would use cargo labels as key, but newgrf do not have to set the label first.
12:55:21 <frosch> so it's a bit tricky. you would first have to let the newgrf define the cargos locally, and then somehow merge them between reservation and activation stage
12:55:40 <petern> Doesn't the multi-stage loading handle that
12:57:01 <frosch> hmm, otoh, maybe all properties but label are ignored during reservation stage
12:57:13 <frosch> so, maybe it is straight forward, just allocate slots during reservation
12:58:29 <frosch> hmm, no cargoclasses and other stuff is also needed
12:58:53 <frosch> so, first create all cargos from all newgrf, then eliinate duplicates, and hope there are enough slots :p
13:00:06 <frosch> ah, no idea, maybe cargoclasses are only used in FinalizeXyz after all.
13:00:28 <frosch> "it probably can be done" :p
13:00:52 <frosch> maybe there should be a limit of 48 cargos per grf :p
13:01:03 <frosch> then firs has to leave empty space for regearing and other stuff
13:01:13 <petern> We could do it, but SHOULD we...
13:01:39 <petern> Ah yes, regearing cargos.
13:01:52 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure i understood the problem: a NewGRF wants to add cargos no matter which other cargos are loaded?
13:02:49 <petern> It just means there's less ID conflicts, it doesn't help with interoperability
13:02:57 <Eddi|zuHause> probably more effort than it is worth... just detect the loaded "conflicting" newgrfs and adjust IDs
13:03:57 <Eddi|zuHause> we should just continue to tell people "only load one industry grf"...
13:04:05 <petern> Using the existing generic ID manager would probably simpler than doing any special casing of conflicting IDs ๐
13:05:00 <Eddi|zuHause> make all IDs grf-local, anything else will need to use the labels
13:05:01 <frosch> the existing id manager can probably not use labels
13:05:07 <frosch> iirc tracktypes do not use it either
13:07:07 <frosch> going by the firs incompaitiblity list, there are basically only the CZTR sets and maybe the tourist set
13:07:18 <frosch> also, why does tourist set use SLTU as grfid?
13:07:34 <frosch> what kind of tourism is it about exactly?
13:10:07 <petern> Interesting that FillDrawPixelInfo isn't used in this case.
13:10:31 <petern> (That would automatically clip it)
13:18:47 <andythenorth> frosch: In that case I've already reached the high score ๐
13:18:54 <andythenorth> getting 64 in is proving tricky
13:19:01 <andythenorth> partly because GraphViz
13:23:17 <petern> My "..." are in the wrong position :/
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13:24:18 <petern> Ah, the ellipsis bypasses the layout run system.
13:27:53 <petern> Sharing screen works better than app when coding & restarting...
13:29:15 <petern> Whatever I changed has no effect. Nice.
13:30:30 <petern> Smallmap UI is a mess ๐ฆ
13:30:44 <TallTyler> Chunky bevels PR when?
13:31:05 <nielsm> can we get TTO colours for the GUI too then?
13:31:38 <petern> When I flatten it down and get rid of commits like "Okay", "dunno" and "Meh"
13:32:15 <petern> nielsm, this is not chunky like TTO, this is just scaling with zoom
13:32:33 <petern> Of course "I have a patch for that", although it's wrong.
13:34:07 <TallTyler> Should I stream my OpenTTD game? ๐ค
13:34:15 <TallTyler> Is this how entertainment works in 2022?
13:34:16 <petern> Hmm, I think there's a -1 in this window
13:35:23 <petern> TallTyler: live coding, yes
13:35:39 <petern> Maybe I should try monetizing it on Twitch
13:37:29 <andythenorth> piss. I have Steel Wire Rod as STWR, and now I want to add Steel Wire Rope
13:41:54 <petern> Hmm, at 2x, chunky vs non-chunky is moot.
13:41:59 <petern> At 4x, non-chunky really looks weird.
13:43:12 <petern> I wonder why our ttf font implementation is so slow. Maybe it's destroying too much. Hmm.
14:18:50 <petern> Scaling DOSBox is awkward
14:19:02 <petern> You'd think it would be obvious and easy.
14:23:14 <pickpacket> andythenorth: SWRO
14:35:42 <andythenorth> graphviz is remarkably tuneable
14:35:46 <andythenorth> except when it isn't
14:35:54 <andythenorth> it just requires spending days tuning it ๐
14:38:18 <andythenorth> Cranes and Hoists?
14:38:28 <andythenorth> or Lifting Equipment?
14:38:50 <andythenorth> inputs are girders, winch gear and steel wire rope
14:42:10 <andythenorth> lifting equipment is wider ranging and includes e.g. lifts in buildings
14:42:18 <andythenorth> cranes are more specific for people to draw cargo sprites ๐
15:47:56 <andythenorth> might add a node de-consolidator flag ๐
15:48:28 <andythenorth> meh still only 60 cargos
15:48:32 <andythenorth> 64 is really hard
15:48:40 <andythenorth> I add 2 delete 1
15:48:49 <EmperorJake> 64 isn't enough, I want 128
15:49:04 <andythenorth> wait no, don't tell frosch ๐
15:49:52 <frosch> i think we can map all cargos with same cargoclasses to the same cargo, the rest is subtypes
15:51:48 <frosch> how about compatible and equivalent cargo labels?
15:52:08 <frosch> pig-iron, steel, copper and aluminum are compatible to metal :p
15:52:45 <andythenorth> did we try this once already?
15:53:12 <andythenorth> maybe we should revert to meaningful bits
15:53:24 <andythenorth> first 2 bits: animal, vegetable or mineral
15:53:40 <andythenorth> then 1 bit for red or blue
15:53:47 <frosch> oh yeah, we need a standardized cargo label schema
15:53:47 <andythenorth> another bit for whether it blends
15:53:55 <frosch> first letter: animal, vegetable, mineral
15:53:58 <frosch> second letter: voltage
15:54:50 <frosch> most important, fouth letter: color
15:55:19 <frosch> wagons can just recolour to cargo-specified colour, and support all future cargos
15:55:55 <andythenorth> what if new colours are discovered?
15:56:02 <andythenorth> we must think of extensibility
15:56:04 <frosch> i wonder how many meaningful cargo sprites and colours are there
15:56:11 <frosch> are there more cargo labels than cargo sprites?
15:56:46 <andythenorth> FIRS thinks there are
15:57:00 <andythenorth> steel vs carbon steel vs stainless steel vs. alloy steel
15:57:12 <frosch> petern: when 8 items of cargo are transported in 8 wagons and transferred 8 times, a creative cargo appears?
15:57:53 <andythenorth> can we track that?
15:59:50 <frosch> i wanted to write a bureaucracy gs
16:00:04 <andythenorth> oh lol, this has managed to dump the Wharf into the dead centre of the chart
16:00:04 <frosch> you would score by transfering cargo as often as possible
16:00:33 <andythenorth> ^^ wharf in the middle was my goal, but I gave up trying to achieve it deliberately
16:00:48 <andythenorth> now GraphViz hands it to me by coincidence
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16:01:16 <andythenorth> some kind of truth has been arrived at
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16:01:36 <frosch> i think it's weird that you remove cargo arrows of arbitrary cargos to make the ports look good
16:01:44 <frosch> wouldn't you rather remove the ports?
16:02:35 <frosch> oh, you already did for rebar
16:02:40 <andythenorth> frosch: I might try removing the port maybe
16:02:51 <andythenorth> I removed the inputs
16:03:26 <andythenorth> removing the inputs helps a lot, because they act like supplies, they're not actually processed A->B
16:03:54 <andythenorth> I am going to write a thing to control how many nodes are on each cargo flow arrow
16:03:58 <andythenorth> seems to help a lot varying it
16:04:37 <andythenorth> sometimes GraphViz though....why bother crossing these?
16:05:04 <andythenorth> why not just put the node exits in the order Aluminium, Cast Iron ๐
16:05:11 <andythenorth> mysteries of .dot
16:05:24 <andythenorth> I had a horrific idea also
16:05:41 <andythenorth> the cargo arrow thickness could represent the relative production ratio
16:06:08 <andythenorth> so e.g. Engine Plant is Cast Iron 4, Aluminium 2, Sand 2
16:06:17 <andythenorth> so Cast Iron could be thicker arrow ๐
16:06:55 <frosch> can you connect the graph via adminport and show live-requirements?
16:11:06 <petern> Hmm, tea or some other beverage...
16:15:16 <andythenorth> I could add Alcohol
16:17:28 <petern> Shall I fix this GUI or build some Lego?
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16:21:26 <andythenorth> does the Lego have instructions?
16:22:06 <petern> Probably, it's in a box.
16:22:33 <petern> It is not a $500 train set though
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16:27:49 <andythenorth> instructions are restful ๐
16:29:04 <Wolf01> I would like to build some lego too, lack of space
16:51:50 * andythenorth plays insane Steeltown
16:52:02 * petern plays... er... a record.
16:52:04 <andythenorth> shame I can't get to 64 cargos
16:55:11 <petern> o/~ Join me, in my hour, in the shower... o/~
16:55:20 <andythenorth> such singing ๐
17:01:17 <andythenorth> cargo label for Precast Concrete?
17:05:49 <andythenorth> meh don't like it
17:07:59 <frosch> if it is precast, it already has a shape
17:08:06 <frosch> so concrete-wall or concrete-tube
17:09:50 <andythenorth> concrete products
17:09:55 <andythenorth> could also be readymix
17:10:01 <andythenorth> if people want to draw cement trucks
17:10:48 <andythenorth> 61 cargos seems to be the limit
17:11:01 <andythenorth> I'm sure I'll think of more given time ๐
17:11:28 <andythenorth> electrical steel is too hard to fit in, so no generators / wind turbines / transformers
17:12:35 <TallTyler> Green Industry would be a fun economy
17:13:05 <frosch> there is already soylent green set
17:15:59 <andythenorth> 'what if we split pax into commuters, tourists etc' ๐
17:16:26 <petern> Fortunately already done so you don't need to...
17:17:02 <frosch> is the splitting done by an industry?
17:17:30 <andythenorth> all the pax types
17:18:44 <andythenorth> hmm could do...nah
17:19:50 <andythenorth> weapons factory is probably not in scope?
17:22:33 <frosch> is there an easy link to docs of latest firs?
17:22:42 <frosch> search engines keep giving me random versions :p
17:24:49 <frosch> pff, i had an idea to add something to steeltown, it's already there :p
17:28:36 <frosch> oh, i kept shortening the urls, but always got access denied
17:28:41 <frosch> but i need to add index.html
17:40:47 <TallTyler> andythenorth: Tried it, bad idea
17:41:19 <TallTyler> A lot of my industry design schemes came from "everybody says this is a bad idea, let's try it anyway" ๐
17:43:10 <TallTyler> Is there any way to output text to a debug console in OpenTTD, for development purposes only? `cout <<` doesn't seem to work no matter what namespaces or `using iostream` I try.
17:46:15 <andythenorth> frosch: the dev branch I have doesn't auto-publish to AWS ๐
17:47:06 <frosch> TallTyler: #include <iostream> std::cout << "foobar\n";
17:47:39 <frosch> on some platform the \n is important
17:50:56 <petern> On Windows, you'll need a debug build otherwise it doesn't give you a terminal.
17:52:19 <TallTyler> I am running a debug build
17:54:10 <petern> Is the `<< endl` way preferred? That should definitely flush the buffer but `\n` may not.
17:55:26 <petern> Ah no, for that reason ๐
17:57:24 <petern> I feel like FILLRECT_CHECKER needs scaling :/
17:57:33 <glx[d]> usually I use Debug(misc, 0, ...)
18:05:14 <dP> Debug isn't included in most places, I use fprintf(stderr, ...)
18:07:50 <dP> But then need to remember to remove include
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18:12:12 <TallTyler> Any idea what I'm missing?
18:13:22 <petern> Are you missing the source/lib?
18:13:43 <TallTyler> I have `#include "3rdparty/json11/json11.hpp"` at the top of the file
18:13:55 <petern> Okay, is it just that file?
18:14:30 <petern> There's a json11.cpp, have you included that?
18:14:30 <TallTyler> There's a .cpp file which goes along with it, but that's the only header in the library
18:14:48 <petern> Sorry, by included I mean included in the build system.
18:15:29 <TallTyler> Hmm, #including the .cpp file fixed it ๐ค
18:15:38 <petern> Don't that's wrong ๐
18:15:50 <LordAro> it "works", but shouldn't be left around
18:16:04 <petern> You need a CMakeLists.txt in your 3rdparty directory, quite simple for a single file, copy on of the others ๐
18:16:16 <petern> And then you need to include the subdirectory in the 3rdparty/CMakeLists.txt
18:17:12 <petern> I'm not sure if you can use their supplied `CMakeLists.txt`, that's a full project rather just the files in the directory.
18:17:25 <petern> For building it as a library
18:17:25 <TallTyler> petern: Ah, missed that
18:17:40 <petern> So did I when I tried ๐
18:19:13 <andythenorth> website -> node -> json -> curl -> python -> templater -> nml -> nmlc -> grfcodec - grf?
18:23:07 <TallTyler> Now to make it do...something
18:23:51 <TallTyler> Back in my day we just used our imagination
18:25:43 <petern> I still do. I'm imagining preparing this PR.
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18:39:57 <petern> Hmm, I wonder what this -4 refers to.
18:40:46 <petern> `top = w->top + wi_rect.top - height - 4;`
19:00:31 <petern> andythenorth: Replace 2CC window?
19:16:03 <petern> In TTD, there are two types of drop down lists, but hardly any of either.
19:37:51 <petern> There are no "button dropdowns", hmm
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19:57:38 <TallTyler> Hmm, JSON parser fails with an error message `unexpected trailing (-3)`
19:58:12 <TallTyler> Maybe it doesn't like newline characters?
20:09:34 <petern> No 2CC. No "liveries". No groups.
20:12:09 <TallTyler> What does `%d` mean?
20:12:54 <TallTyler> Hmm, why is it negative?
20:13:17 <TallTyler> Error message is generated by this code ^^
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20:13:34 <petern> > This repository has been archived by the owner. It is now read-only.
20:16:10 <glx[d]> error codes are often negative
20:18:10 <glx[d]> (but it doesn't seem to be the case here)
20:19:14 <petern> Step 2: try with something a bit more...
20:19:35 <TallTyler> {} being the JSON object, instead of loading one from file?
20:19:52 <glx[d]> put a breakpoint on the line to see what it's reading
20:27:07 <TallTyler> Aha, just replacing all the potentially illegal characters (`\t`, `\r`, `\n`, and `\r\n` with a space makes it happy ๐
20:35:10 <andythenorth> petern: actually no, let's keep this
20:35:14 <andythenorth> such a great UI, the best
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20:35:38 <andythenorth> wait, ctrl-click does what?
20:35:43 <andythenorth> I never read that tooltip before
20:35:55 <andythenorth> multi-select ๐ฎ
20:36:14 <andythenorth> am I the only one who didn't know?
20:36:36 <glx[d]> for once it's in the tooltip ๐
20:37:15 <andythenorth> suddenly that entire UI makes
20:39:24 <petern> "Click on the box to toggle use of the scheme" seems... wrong
20:39:35 <petern> Like, wasn't there a toggle box on there at one point?
20:42:08 <andythenorth> I remember checkboxes I think
20:42:27 <petern> I think it was replaced with "Default"
20:51:53 <TallTyler> Oof, I fell down an xkcd rabbithole again
21:04:55 <andythenorth> Welding Supplies
21:06:49 <FLHerne> got back half an hour ago
21:07:02 <FLHerne> it got worse than that, but my phone can't see in the dark
21:34:07 <petern> Rebase your vegetation
22:05:57 <FLHerne> also it was so shallow I had to keep getting out and wading
22:06:07 <FLHerne> and promptly falling into waist-deep pits
22:06:56 <FLHerne> tbc that's not the bank in the last one, the bow of the canoe is pointing along the river :P
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22:08:32 <TallTyler> Okay, odd problem: I created a new `json.hpp` file in `src/misc`, added it to the CMakeLists.txt in that folder, and now I'm getting sixteen `'byte': ambiguous symbol` errors in a completely different file. What did I miss when adding the file?
22:12:27 <JGR> And where are you including it from?
22:12:55 <TallTyler> The only #include is in genworld.cpp
22:13:11 <JGR> Don't do this, it's just a bad idea
22:13:30 <TallTyler> Don't I need that for strings?
22:13:50 <TallTyler> Or would you just std::string every time?
22:14:45 <JGR> Yes, mushing all the namespaces together sort of defeats the point of having things clearly separated in namespaces in the first place
22:15:21 <JGR> Likely your ambiguity is between ::byte and std::byte
22:16:32 <TallTyler> Does that namespace bleed over between files via #include references?
22:16:47 <TallTyler> Ah, that sounds like a hot mess
22:17:08 <JGR> #include is literally just a text copy and paste
22:17:19 <TallTyler> Is it okay to put `using namespace whatever` inside functions? Does that scope it to just the function?
22:19:03 <TallTyler> And what about `using namespace json11;` at the top of json.hpp? VS doesn't like the `json11::Json ParseJsonFromLoadedFile()` I'd have to do without it
22:20:02 <TallTyler> Or is it better to enclose the entire file in `namespace json11 {}`?
22:20:13 <TallTyler> I've only worked with namespaces in C# and only barely
22:20:52 <JGR> I can't see why the compiler wouldn't accept `json11::Json`, what error does it give?
22:23:08 <TallTyler> Oh...it was something else ๐
22:23:24 <TallTyler> Forgot to add the namespace to the return statement
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22:52:46 <JustANortherner> andythenorth: Every time...
continue to next day โต
