IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-09-30
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10:12:34 <Brickblock1> Discord Moderator
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10:13:26 <RektTangleCaptainKlu> Handled it
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11:14:28 <petern> AI-generated 3D models now...
11:32:46 <andythenorth> this stuff is so good
11:35:49 <LordAro> copyright is meaningless
11:48:03 <Bouke> glx[d]: More drawing instructions: even slower now. But a hotkey to toggle, so it's not too bad. These turns could use a bigger turn radius to accommodate the AsiaStar. How would I improve drawing performance further? I guess my only options would be custom GRFs to overlay the base tiles? Ideally I'd overlay the tiles with ~25 transparency, but is that even available in 8 bit?
11:49:32 <LordAro> probably wants some coloured rail overlay sprites
11:49:34 <petern> No but most people will be running 32bpp, even when not using the horrible 32bpp basesets...
11:52:54 <pickpacket> I don’t understand what 32bpp means vs 8bpp. Just larger set of colours?
11:54:21 <petern> 8 bpp is 256 colours, with a palette.
12:16:11 <Eddi|zuHause> hopefully it wasn't naphtalene
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13:11:06 <WoozyDragon4018> Bouke: damn that looks useful
13:11:30 <WoozyDragon4018> very useful too
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14:59:56 <petern> Damn, such a shame. It's big, it's Lego, it's a train, it's... Harry Potter 😦
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15:55:54 <ag> Should have made a King's Cross set instead
16:08:01 <supermop_toil> should have made a Pannal station set
16:12:59 <EmperorJake> It doesn't run on standard lego tracks either
16:16:47 <supermop_toil> does it run on 90s' town monorail track?
16:17:56 <supermop_toil> i wonder what the axel loading limits of monorail track vs standard lego track are
16:18:40 <supermop_toil> vs like O gauge track
16:22:59 <petern> Hmm, somewhat pissing down
16:24:51 <petern> When the widget padding looks wrong... it's probably because the truetype font's baseline isn't the same 😦
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17:59:11 <pickpacket> I’m at an airport restaurant. Expeeeeensiiiive
18:07:13 <FLHerne> I'm in my little boat watching the rain blatter against the windows
18:07:24 <FLHerne> but now I have to go out and cycle in it :-(
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18:11:43 <petern> I don't have to cycle so I'm sat at home being lazy.
18:11:53 <petern> Hopefully it will dry out a bit for tomorrow morning.
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18:27:20 <TallTyler> I'm working on a feature for Scenario Editor which will import real-world map data as a .geojson file, and need to add a JSON parser. Looking at json11 because it's small and decently-well documented but don't really know what's important. https://github.com/dropbox/json11 How would I add a library dependency so I can use it in OpenTTD?
18:32:53 <TallTyler> Or maybe I just need to write my own JSON parser, since that's all that's really needed
18:41:36 <JustANortherner> pickpacket: The fun part of flying!
18:42:08 <JustANortherner> Where a pint is £10 for some rubbish beer like Carlsberg...
18:42:17 <JGR> I really wouldn't advise writing your own JSON parser unless you'vr got a good reason to
18:43:31 <TallTyler> Yeah, it's indeed not easier than figuring out how to link a dependency
18:46:10 <JGR> Probably your best bet is to bundle it into src/3rdparty/
18:46:52 <TallTyler> I can just put stuff in there? It's MIT licensed.
18:48:20 <TallTyler> I'll try that, then
18:48:27 <petern> That's what I did with nano-svg... then I found that it's quite lacking 😦
18:56:01 <Bouke> Where can I find the colour palette for creating 8bit sprites? I can only find broken links :(. I'm trying to create a 1x1 transparent png.
18:57:45 <andythenorth> 1 short of the high score 😦 nmlc info: Object items: 255/256
18:58:07 <andythenorth> is petern streaming?
18:58:34 <andythenorth> how do I discord?
18:59:51 <andythenorth> lol, I should live program
18:59:58 <andythenorth> 48 mins of syntax error
19:02:12 <xordspar0> Is there a way to unlock the framerate or do a benchmark of some kind? I'm working on a patch that touches render code and I want to make sure I'm not making the performance worse.
19:05:11 <andythenorth> Paints and Coatings eh
19:05:21 <andythenorth> goes to too many places
19:06:43 <andythenorth> hmm Paints & Coatings could go everywhere
19:06:48 <andythenorth> also Welding Gas
19:06:51 <andythenorth> that would be dull
19:07:53 <andythenorth> right how do I fit big transformers and generators and stuff in?
19:08:18 <andythenorth> or power machines?
19:08:26 <andythenorth> something something
19:12:52 <andythenorth> needs to be split more
19:13:01 <andythenorth> already split pumps and valves out
19:13:15 <kamnet> electrical facilities eqiupment
19:14:19 <andythenorth> electrical parts -> motors + generators + transformers -> electrical power equipment
19:15:44 <kamnet> Yay! Now I can claim a developer credit 😄
19:21:42 <petern> You can? How much are they worth?
19:24:05 <petern> Hmm, I guess video is too blurry.
19:46:18 <andythenorth> such steel cable town
19:53:17 <kamnet> petern: Probably more than what's in my bank account right now.
20:04:47 <TallTyler> How does OpenTTD create folders in a player's Documents folder when it's installed?
20:06:04 <andythenorth> hmm 6 cargos left
20:06:18 * andythenorth trying to get all the 'level complete' badges
20:07:54 <pickpacket> JustANortherner: indeed 😝 I had a $20 pizza and decided that my employer will pay for it
20:10:35 <JGR> TallTyler: FioCreateDirectory is probably the function to look at
20:12:41 <JustANortherner> pickpacket: Don't blame you! 😂
20:15:33 <TallTyler> JGR: Hmm, maybe it would be created if I created a fresh install then
20:15:50 <JGR> What are you trying to do?
20:16:24 <TallTyler> I want to put .geojson files in `scenario/geodata` which doesn't currently exist
20:17:16 <TallTyler> A sample file, to be loaded using a new button on top of a heightmap with matching extents
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20:18:46 <TallTyler> The special entries `NORTH_EXTENT` and `SOUTH_EXTENT` correspond to the northernmost and southernmost tiles and allow the other town locations to be determined
20:18:57 <JGR> You could add it to `enum Subdirectory` and `_subdirs`
20:20:51 <TallTyler> Ah, I missed `default_subdirs[]`
20:20:53 <JGR> Might it be easier if the PNG and the JSON file were bundled together in a tar file or equivalent?
20:21:06 <JGR> Thinking about distribution, bananas, etc
20:21:29 <TallTyler> An enhancement for a later date once I get JSON parsing working
20:22:22 <TallTyler> Another enhancement could be the ability to save this data from existing games or scenarios
20:23:05 <TallTyler> One advantage of this being that it's NewGRF agnostic - you could easily change house or industry sets while keeping the same town names and locations
20:23:15 <andythenorth> welcome to the exciting world of projections 😛
20:23:39 <andythenorth> you need to account for the fact that lat-longs, and especially Z-height change when the tide comes in
20:23:47 <TallTyler> Yeah, I'm pretty much leaving it up to the scenario maker to figure out how to get matching PNGs and GeoJSON files
20:24:01 <andythenorth> and the OpenTTD world is even less spherical than the actual Earth
20:24:59 <andythenorth> meh, no high score 😦 BaseException: ('Object ID limit exceeded', 256, 'wire_rod_mill_object_04')
20:25:09 <TallTyler> Besides docs for GeoJSON requirements I'll probably make a tutorial video describing my workflow, which is 100% possible using public or open-source data and tools
20:25:38 <TallTyler> TallTyler: Fixed it 🙂
20:31:18 <andythenorth> I saw a crane delivery in Mumbai
20:31:28 <andythenorth> we were on a ferry, crane ship passed right by
20:31:37 <andythenorth> definite element of WTF? when seen from a distance
20:31:51 <andythenorth> 'why is that dock floating across the harbour'
20:34:35 <TallTyler> Maybe those people should choose better usernames 😛
20:44:23 <andythenorth> hmm plastic -> wire processor -> welding rods
20:44:26 <andythenorth> something is wrong with that 😛
20:45:30 <TallTyler> No different from the old "making Food out of Packaging" trick?
20:45:54 <andythenorth> or pipe assemblies from welding gas?
20:49:41 <andythenorth> that would be a thing
20:49:47 <andythenorth> newgrf dock objects
20:49:53 <andythenorth> with state machines
20:51:16 <TallTyler> We need a `Top 10 OpenTTD Buzzwords` blog post from andythenorth
20:52:17 <andythenorth> I need to mute the other dev channel in discord 😛
20:52:21 <andythenorth> having 2 is weird 🙂
20:52:24 <petern> Oh christ I started NewGRF docks in 2019...
20:52:53 <TallTyler> 2019 was only last year...right?
20:53:11 <andythenorth> I started Unsinkable Sam in 2016
20:53:15 <andythenorth> still no release
20:53:22 <andythenorth> it's the new DB Set XL
20:53:49 <TallTyler> Should've started with DB Set M, that's a more achievable goal
20:54:01 <andythenorth> I have seen one other person using Sam
20:54:09 <andythenorth> so it's no longer true to say Everybody Hates It
20:54:20 <TallTyler> Maybe you haven't seen me using it
20:54:28 <andythenorth> I only judge by Reddit
20:54:31 <andythenorth> the true standard
20:54:32 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: It is kinda your fault that this channel become 90% Discord activity 😛 Don't blame it on the server!
20:54:49 <andythenorth> I was blaming me silly
20:55:19 <andythenorth> "andythenorth please find the mute button provided"
20:56:20 <TrueBrain> it is mostly funny how this channel was meant to bridge IRC to Discord, but it turned out in reverse 😛
20:56:31 <TrueBrain> some things are unpredictable in life 😛
20:57:05 <TallTyler> Bridges go both ways though 🧐
20:57:25 <TrueBrain> but there is an intention with everything ... in this case, dragging to old into the new, not the new into the old 😄 😄
20:58:25 <TallTyler> I think most people chatting here are on Discord, and there's just a few left on IRC
20:58:44 <TrueBrain> that was ... my point yes 🙂
20:58:51 <andythenorth> it is the best thing since sliced bread TBH
20:59:05 <TrueBrain> I love how you love the image copy/paste 🙂
20:59:19 <andythenorth> none of the discord channels ever quite had the same chat as irc
20:59:33 <andythenorth> much as I love realistic timetabling, or voxel sprites
20:59:53 <andythenorth> and I no longer have to run an irc client
21:00:09 <andythenorth> best thing is being able to close my laptop when I go up or downstairs
21:02:05 <petern> Oh right, magic new command system that doesn't rely on manual bit-stuffing
21:05:06 <andythenorth> meh "FIRS: designed by graphviz" again 😛
21:13:33 <petern> Every time I plan to whittle this patch set down, I add more bits 😦
21:13:55 <petern> I don't really want to do my old trick of literally rewriting it.
21:14:14 <petern> (Hello NewGRF stations!)
21:29:43 <andythenorth> I've had the same broom for 18 years
21:29:57 <Bouke> I'd like to extend the base graphics with coloured tile overlays. I don't want to replace the base set, merely offer some additional sprites. I'm currently doing that by loading a NewGRF "overriding" base graphics (with non-existing sprite IDs). But that introduces a dependency on loading such a NewGRF. Is there a way I can embed these overlays with the game? (I'm not against a NewGRF, but it should be a "hidden" NewGRF that's included in
21:29:58 <andythenorth> I've replaced the bristles 6 times and the handle 3 times
21:31:12 <Bouke> Here's the junction from earlier, now with ugly sprites that I've drawn. (without the proper diamond mask yet)
21:32:10 <JGR> Is this intended to be a "debugging" type feature, or something that normal players will use?
21:32:29 <andythenorth> cranes and hoists
21:33:18 <andythenorth> I might run out of cargos 😦
21:33:27 <petern> I might run out of commits.
21:34:38 <Bouke> JGR: This feature would be targeted at normal players, yes. Well probably only advanced players I guess. Or players with a little more than healthy amount of interest of statistics.
21:35:20 <Bouke> Currently I've assigned a hotkey to toggle the overlays as they look pretty ugly as-is.
21:35:57 <petern> Hmm She Hulk is a bit weird.
21:36:08 <Bouke> Thanks andythenorth and TallTyler, very helpful!
21:36:19 <andythenorth> guess I won't be doing pressure vessels 😛
21:36:24 <andythenorth> or pre-cast concrete sections
21:37:03 <TallTyler> GUI is added, now to figure out how to parse JSON using the library I found 🙂
21:37:08 <JGR> There was a feature in ChillPP which was sort of similar to that, in that signals recorded statistic how long trains were waiting at them
21:37:18 <JGR> The values were only shown in the minimap window
21:38:16 <Bouke> Ah yeah that'd be a great statistic as well.
21:39:15 <Bouke> I'm wondering if path-finding could take those statistics into account, to reroute traffic around congested parts of the main lines.
21:40:48 <Bouke> W.r.t. `openttd.grf`, that's 8bit. Can I also add 32bit sprites? (I want semi-transparent overlays)
21:41:01 <JGR> It'd likely be difficult to tune something like that given the huge variety in network styles
21:41:15 <JGR> Also, the players need to be left some work to do 🙂
21:42:30 <Bouke> Haha yeah when I'm playing, there's always some point where I think I should program my way around it instead of actually playing. I should get playing with programmable signals, I guess.
21:44:35 <JGR> It is fairly different playing style once you start really using those sorts of things
21:44:37 <andythenorth> hmm electrical steel
21:47:47 <andythenorth> might be too late to insert that to Steeltown 😛
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21:53:54 <andythenorth> goes it increase cargo limit? 😛
21:56:49 <pickpacket> andythenorth: electric steel?
21:57:08 <andythenorth> specific alloy used in electrical applications
21:58:30 <pickpacket> btw, the industry ID collision problem (the reason that industry NewGRFs mostly aren't compatible), how hard would that be to remedy?
22:09:18 <TallTyler> It's not industry IDs, it's cargo IDs
22:11:47 <TallTyler> Okay smart people, need some help with syntax. How do I parse a .geojson `_file_to_saveload` into an object in C++ using this library?
22:13:29 <petern> Load it into a string and call parse()?
22:22:23 <TallTyler> Suggestions on making it a string?
22:22:38 <TallTyler> Saveload is confusing 🥲
22:22:40 <petern> How are text files read?
22:23:01 <TallTyler> Do we read text files anywhere?
22:23:05 <petern> saveload suggests it's stored in the save game?
22:23:15 <TallTyler> Sorry, not safeload
22:23:20 <petern> If it's not, then I don't think saveload is the right thing to look at 🙂
22:23:38 <petern> Yeah, there's a text file viewer, readmes, licences, etc.
22:24:29 <TallTyler> `_file_to_saveload` is used for heightmaps too
22:24:36 <TallTyler> Which is what I've been copying so far
22:26:13 <TallTyler> Textfile is all dealing with .tar files, but I'll look around
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22:28:47 <petern> That's because content is bundled in tar files, but it can also be extracted. I think the same functions handle both cases without the calling code needing to care. But I could be wrong.
22:29:32 <TallTyler> I've been plugging away at this for 10 hours, I'll try again tomorrow 🙃
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22:38:14 <petern> TextfileWindow::LoadTextfile(const char *textfile, Subdirectory dir)
22:38:26 <petern> ^ Seems relatively simple?
22:39:02 <petern> (Lots of that is to do with display, so not necessary for you)
22:40:23 <petern> _file_to_saveload.name would be the filename, I suppose?
22:46:35 <petern> Crap, accidentally touched saveload.h 😦
23:03:05 <TallTyler> `std::string string = TextfileWindow::LoadTextfile(_file_to_saveload.name, GEODATA_DIR);` ?
23:03:40 <TallTyler> `a nonstatic member reference must be relative to a specific object`
23:03:57 <TallTyler> Oh, plus that's a void return
23:05:45 <TallTyler> You meant copy the code, not call that method
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