IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-09-25
ā“ go to previous day
01:10:08 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Quit: A toaster's basically a soldering iron designed to toast bread)
02:25:33 *** wallabra has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
02:31:36 *** Wormnest has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
02:37:47 *** debdog has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
03:10:34 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog
04:48:48 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
05:56:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
08:08:05 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
08:23:05 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
08:27:38 <andythenorth> nmlc info: Object items: 238/256
08:27:42 <andythenorth> getting close š
08:28:35 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
08:31:05 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
08:32:35 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
08:43:35 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
08:44:05 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
08:44:35 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
08:45:05 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
09:01:05 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
09:04:21 <pickpacket> Iād like to try my hand at writing a NewGRF, adding tea to the game. Is there something like a skeleton code base to build on? Or a very simple open source NewGRF I can fork and modify?
09:09:05 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
09:13:05 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
09:13:32 *** EmperorJake has joined #openttd
09:13:32 <EmperorJake> Making a GRF for the Spiffing Brit perchance? Check out the code for Industries of the Caribbean, OpenGFX+ industries or FIRS to get an idea of what it looks like
09:18:05 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
09:18:35 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
09:43:05 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
09:49:05 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
09:53:05 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
09:53:36 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
09:54:02 <pickpacket> EmperorJake: for myself, actually :D He and I share a great love of tea
09:54:32 <pickpacket> where can I find the repos for those?
09:56:26 <andythenorth> or use TrueGRF š
10:12:35 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
10:23:43 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
10:28:05 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
10:28:19 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
10:30:37 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
10:31:05 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
10:31:18 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
10:31:22 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
10:31:39 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
10:31:39 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
10:32:01 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
10:33:35 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
10:33:54 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
10:34:05 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
10:34:27 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
10:34:37 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
10:34:54 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
10:34:58 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
10:35:19 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
10:35:35 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
10:35:51 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
10:35:52 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
10:36:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
10:36:17 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
10:37:35 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
10:37:47 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
10:37:51 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
10:38:12 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
10:38:46 <pickpacket> andythenorth: what's TrueGRF?
10:39:35 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
10:39:52 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
10:39:58 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
10:40:15 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
10:41:35 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
10:41:48 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
10:42:05 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
10:42:21 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
10:50:55 <pickpacket> andythenorth: that's such a cool tool! What am I expected to draw in the "graphics" section?
10:51:10 <andythenorth> for cargos? a sprite
10:51:20 <andythenorth> used in stations etc
10:52:35 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
10:52:56 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
11:00:02 <pickpacket> What are the cargo types "Piece Goods" and "Bulk", respectively?
11:00:20 <pickpacket> FLHerne: good link! It looks like TrueGRF honours that
11:00:43 <FLHerne> oh, he has a sprite editor built-in?
11:01:49 <FLHerne> "bulk" is granular stuff you can pile up
11:02:03 <FLHerne> coal, grain, stone, whatever
11:02:26 <FLHerne> "piece goods" is stuff like crates, sacks, maybe parcels
11:02:41 <FLHerne> you can have multiple classes for the same cargo
11:03:14 <FLHerne> it's used to determine which vehicles can carry it, mostly
11:04:29 <FLHerne> I guess tea is probably in sacks so piece goods, unless you're transporting it pre-made :p
11:06:05 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
11:06:21 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
11:06:35 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
11:06:47 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
11:10:14 <pickpacket> I chose crates and piece goods :)
11:11:16 <pickpacket> I made two types of cargoes: tea leaves and tea tea deluxe. And two industries: tea farm and tea factory. Now... graphics for the industries... oh my...
11:12:00 <pickpacket> And then to figure out how a tea farm can be an actual farm instead of just a building
11:12:19 <pickpacket> but graphics for the industries is going to be really hard to understand
11:14:29 <pickpacket> I guess this is a good example, but how does the game place the sprites?
11:15:44 <FLHerne> depends on your grf's tilelayout and spritelayout, but I suspect TrueGRF does some or all of it for you :p
11:16:41 <pickpacket> Yes! I figured out how TrueGRF does it :D
11:50:05 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
11:50:26 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
11:57:19 *** nielsm has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
12:01:35 <pickpacket> Doing pixelart on a touchpad *sucks*
12:01:51 <pickpacket> andythenorth: TrueGRF is awesome!
12:05:40 <EmperorJake> I drew an entire locomotive on my Mac touchpad and it worked surprisingly well
12:34:14 <andythenorth> I've drawn millions of pixels on a mac trackpad š
12:34:21 <andythenorth> dunno even know how many millions now š
12:35:03 <andythenorth> but a single ground tile has about 1000 pixels
12:37:35 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:37:56 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
12:38:35 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:38:48 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
12:40:35 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:40:55 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
12:41:05 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:41:19 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
12:43:05 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:43:19 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
12:43:35 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:43:48 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
12:43:53 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:44:14 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
12:44:18 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:44:35 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
12:44:42 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:45:03 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
12:45:11 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:45:27 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
12:45:35 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:45:57 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
12:45:57 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:46:18 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
12:46:23 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:46:40 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
12:49:35 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:49:49 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
12:50:05 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:50:18 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
12:54:19 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
12:55:12 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
12:58:05 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:58:19 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
12:58:25 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:58:36 <andythenorth> oops, broke all my objects again š
12:58:41 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
12:58:47 <andythenorth> 'reloading grfs is bad'
12:58:47 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:59:35 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:59:58 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
13:00:43 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
13:01:07 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
13:03:05 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
13:03:56 <petern> 'Changing IDs is bad' š
13:05:05 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
13:27:48 <petern> Dare I go food shopping...
13:44:53 <andythenorth> makes pans, knives, etc
13:45:08 <andythenorth> if I do cast iron as well, the cargo flow is a mess š¦
14:05:05 <pickpacket> do I need any callbacks for this kind of thing?
14:30:02 <andythenorth> if it's just a primary industry, probably not
14:30:09 <andythenorth> all you need it to do is produce
14:33:34 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
14:38:30 *** wallabra has joined #openttd
14:38:30 *** Westie has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
14:38:55 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
14:51:50 <EmperorJake> pickpacket: Shading is wrong, sunlight comes from the right in OTTD
14:53:00 <EmperorJake> otherwise it looks great
14:53:05 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
15:01:23 <pickpacket> EmperorJake: oh crap XD Thanks! I'll fix it
15:04:08 <EmperorJake> Just noticed the scale is off too, that table is the size of a truck haha
15:04:58 <EmperorJake> Though I wouldn't worry too much about it, scale in TTD is notoriously wack
15:20:00 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
15:43:01 *** wallabra_ has joined #openttd
15:47:28 *** wallabra has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
15:47:28 *** wallabra_ is now known as wallabra
16:08:14 *** wallabra has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
16:13:33 <pickpacket> EmperorJake: Yeah I noticed the scale too :D Going to have to take an extra look at doors and windows and that table
16:43:52 <andythenorth> feel like I'm not getting the best of GraphViz here š
16:44:18 <FLHerne> are there other layout algorithms that suck less?
16:51:47 <andythenorth> I've tried the various GraphViz options
16:52:00 <andythenorth> iirc this is dot, which is the preferable one
16:53:24 <andythenorth> it would need manual drawing to achieve anything like this
16:56:03 <andythenorth> the major limitation is that it really doesn't like right-to-left edges
16:56:28 <andythenorth> and the port-type industries mess with it, because they have outputs that come from the left (source) side of the graph
16:56:40 <andythenorth> but they are also sinks for cargos from the right side of the graph
16:59:08 *** wallabra has joined #openttd
18:00:06 <pickpacket> FLHerne: I noticed that trucks and skyscraper have a rather interesting size ratio
18:04:38 <FLHerne> yeah - mostly vehicles are one scale, structures are another, and structures that carry or contain vehicles have to cheat in various ways :p
18:13:27 <pickpacket> errrhhh... The newgrf can't be used at all and of course there's no such thing as debug printout. I see that the generated yaml-files have added the "id: 0" and "id: 1" respectively in the new factories. I recall that we talked about id collisions the other day. Could that be what's up?
18:15:55 <pickpacket> the error I get when I try it is "New vehicles at all will be available. Change your GRF settings"
18:16:21 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: ^ TrueGRF issue
18:17:06 <FLHerne> LordAro: "you are the most beautiful ship in the world" or something?
18:17:13 <frosch> you get that message if you delete all cargos
18:20:13 <pickpacket> probably id collision with cargo types then?
18:22:38 <frosch> can you enable pax, mail and goods somehow
18:22:47 <frosch> i forgot what truegrf looked like
18:26:04 <pickpacket> frosch: I can disable my newgrf :P
18:27:22 <pickpacket> I edited the yaml files on github and set randomly chosen IDs in the 700-999 range, but I don't know if TrueGRF uses the latest or its own workspace
18:28:22 <pickpacket> either way it still doesn't work
18:28:51 <frosch> yeah, no, don't do that :p
18:29:04 <frosch> 700-999 is certainly no valid id for about anything
18:29:39 <frosch> rather compare with the firs-steeltown sample-project
18:30:38 <frosch> pickpacket: i just remembered something
18:30:50 <frosch> ottd had a bug, which truegrf exposed
18:31:03 <frosch> does your newgrf work inside the truegrf preview?
18:31:13 <pickpacket> no, that's where I'm trying it
18:31:39 <frosch> ok, if it had just failed locally, i would have recommended updating
18:35:13 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
18:49:39 <pickpacket> omg.... the firs steeltown template is 500+ files
18:51:40 <andythenorth> is that all? š
18:52:20 <andythenorth> frosch: the need to shard object IDs per FIRS economy is getting closer š nmlc info: Object items: 238/256
18:53:58 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:57:00 <pickpacket> I have no idea how to debug this :(
19:00:44 *** gelignite has quit IRC (Quit: Stay safe!)
19:01:31 <FLHerne> it's a rather new project so bug might not be in your thing
19:01:50 <FLHerne> best bet is probably to wait for TrueBrain to be around and ask him about it
19:04:23 <frosch> pickpacket: you can use the in-game console and "dump_info cargotypes"
19:45:05 <pickpacket> frosch: the "dump_info" command doesn't appear to exist š¤
19:49:26 <pickpacket> the "set newgrf_developer_tools 1" command doesn't do anything either š¤
19:51:08 <pickpacket> ah, found the dev tools now. It doesn't look like they can help with this
20:03:49 <pickpacket> hm. I just had a thought. Does a NewGRF have to include callbacks?
20:05:39 <nielsm> you can make things in newgrf without using callbacks
20:05:49 <nielsm> but many of the interesting things you can do are only possible with callbacks
20:06:39 <Brickblock1> Graphics are usually done with callbacks but I think true grf hides that
20:08:21 <petern> Are you sure about that?
20:09:32 <petern> What's the callback ID for drawing graphics?
20:10:03 <pickpacket> the yaml files generated by TrueGRF contain no callbacks at all for me, which makes sense since I haven't added any
20:10:05 <nielsm> that's the graphics id
20:11:03 <pickpacket> I'd love to see some documentation on callbacks in yaml format if you have any links
20:12:16 *** felix_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
20:13:22 <pickpacket> oh! nvm. TrueGRF has its own thingy
20:30:46 <pickpacket> andythenorth: do you know if callbacks are required for a newgrf to work?
20:31:07 <andythenorth> callbacks are not required to make a basic newgrf
20:31:36 <pickpacket> then it's probably not that that's wrong
20:32:05 <pickpacket> what exactly is a .grf file? Some sort of archive format? Compressed?
20:33:15 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC ()
20:34:00 <andythenorth> I think it's some sort of bytecode for a VM that runs in the game, but I actually don't know
20:34:09 <andythenorth> "does anybody know"? š
20:44:41 <nielsm> you can call it a GRF file a kind of archive, where each entry has an id number (no names) and can be either a graphical sprite or a data item
20:45:34 <nielsm> the original GRF format from Transport Tycoon only had graphics in it, TTDPatch invented the pseudo sprites to describe the sprites contained in GRF files that extended the original game data (NewGRFs)
20:47:11 <nielsm> every pseudo sprite is an "action", and loading a NewGRF file is actually executing all the actions in order, where some actions might cause following sprites to get skipped, or get loaded as data instead of being executed
20:47:49 <nielsm> and most actions cause some game data to be added or modified
20:50:38 <petern> var action chains are the closest to a "bytecode" but not really.
20:52:10 <petern> Okay, release button to apply gui scale works a lot better š
20:53:31 <FLHerne> there's a reason people keep inventing things like m4nfo and nml and py-grf and now TrueGRF so they don't have to actually write it
20:54:25 <petern> GRF wasn't meant to be written directly, that's why NFO exists, so you can enter it as sequences of 2-digit hexadecimal values instead š
20:54:38 <FLHerne> well, those are the NFO specs, I can't remember where the grf container spec is
21:27:05 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC (Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.)
21:49:03 <petern> Okay, I have a sherry cask, a peaty, and a smokey whisky. I wonder which one to open.
21:50:09 <pickpacket> petern: sherry cask. Sounds nice for a Sunday evening
21:50:37 <pickpacket> Save the smokey for a Friday night post-work-week-wind-down
21:53:27 * pickpacket is trying to figure out what's wrong with his NewGRF but comes up empty
21:53:34 <pickpacket> well... it's bedtime anyway
21:53:57 <petern> Blame NewGRF. I would.
21:56:50 <reldred> Blame all the choices in life that have led you to this moment.
22:04:49 <pickpacket> I don't really care where the blame is. I just want to make it work :D
22:06:54 *** nielsm has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
22:23:20 *** wallabra_ has joined #openttd
22:25:19 *** wallabra has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
22:25:19 *** wallabra_ is now known as wallabra
22:28:38 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:54:06 <Senjai> Wow the discord topic for this channel is amazing
continue to next day āµ
