IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-09-11
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07:14:21 <LordAro> andythenorth: you realise because you've made it separate PRs one of them will conflict and it'll need rebasing :p
07:15:11 <andythenorth> it took about 4 years and two patches to get shade added to the station UI
07:15:17 <andythenorth> so I have split them
07:15:34 <andythenorth> we had to debate like 'do authors add too many grfs' and 'stop using 2x UI zoom' and so on
07:16:12 <andythenorth> obviously I've cp-ed them both into a local branch that I have built 😛
07:18:12 <andythenorth> did I forget tabs vs spaces yet? 😛
07:18:51 <dP> I don't think I even use that button
07:19:24 <LordAro> i have occasionally used it
07:20:14 <andythenorth> ^^ this is what happened last time
07:20:38 <andythenorth> like...we already have a UI convention, inconsistently applied, but let's debate it...again 😛
07:20:47 <andythenorth> I like a trip down memory lane
07:21:13 <andythenorth> the case is this 🙂
07:21:18 <andythenorth> how do I place objects?
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07:23:34 <andythenorth> I think the first patch I made, it was concluded the following:
07:23:34 <andythenorth> - I should stop using station grfs
07:23:34 <andythenorth> - I should stop using 2x UI zoom
07:23:34 <andythenorth> - I should stop using a laptop and get a large monitor
07:24:01 <andythenorth> I imagine someone said "don't try to implement technical solutions to social problems" at some point
07:24:08 <andythenorth> second patch, Peter just approved it 😛
07:30:28 <andythenorth> wonder if we can figure out why the Object Selection window resizes when switching between objects 😄
07:31:25 <andythenorth> I suspect it's in UpdateWidgetSize
07:32:15 <andythenorth> L 250 might give clues
07:32:27 <andythenorth> `/* We do not want the window to resize when selecting objects; better clip texts */`
07:37:08 <andythenorth> I supposed I could try to learn how to use break points
07:37:27 <andythenorth> I've managed 25 years of low-quality programming without that 😛
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08:09:08 <frosch> ah, object window in an independent window
08:09:31 <frosch> you can't sticky station window, because it is a picker attached to the construction toolbar
08:14:05 <andythenorth> aren't both station and object selection similar? 😮
08:14:16 <andythenorth> the sticky wasn't essential 🙂
08:15:30 <andythenorth> ` nmlc info: Object items: 199/256`
08:15:34 <andythenorth> about to cross a rubicon 🙂
08:19:26 <frosch> for the object window "sticky" seems to work, the window remains open when switching construction tools
08:19:37 <frosch> but the station window closes when switching construction tools, so sticky is pointless
08:19:45 <frosch> luckily it does not seem to have sticky
08:20:22 <andythenorth> the consistency of sticky is best not looked at too hard 🙂
08:22:36 <andythenorth> just got smacked by python lexical sorting
08:22:56 <andythenorth> I'm sorting on `industry_cabbage_1` and `industry_cabbage_10`
08:23:02 <andythenorth> first time I've reach 10
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08:24:46 <dP> I get the convention but I still don't know a single usecase for sticky button in any window
08:24:52 <dP> may have missed the last debate :p
08:25:41 <frosch> dP: we are now on sticky, no longer shade
08:25:42 <dP> oh, sorry, shade button, not sticky
08:26:19 <frosch> i think shade was meant for vehicle window
08:26:35 <frosch> if for some reason you want to look at 20 vehicles in 1 year again or something
08:26:47 <andythenorth> zfill is my new favourite thing 😛
08:26:48 <andythenorth> self.id = industry.id + "_object_" + str(object_group_num).zfill(2)
08:26:55 <andythenorth> yolo lexical sort fixed
08:27:38 <frosch> do you like zfill so much that you avoid format and f-strings?
08:27:54 <andythenorth> those require skill
08:28:03 <dwfreed> zfill can be used in an f-string
08:28:27 <dwfreed> (but also you could just make the format do the same work)
08:28:30 <andythenorth> I am open to alternative solutions
08:28:36 <andythenorth> I was about to write a horrific lambda
08:28:49 <frosch> i think zfill requires more skill than self.id = f"{industry.id} object {object_group_num:02}"
08:29:00 <dP> f`{industry.id}object{object_group_num:02}`
08:29:16 <dwfreed> dP missed the underscores :)
08:29:31 <dwfreed> frosch put spaces instead :D
08:29:55 <dwfreed> yeah, discord probably made object italic
08:31:49 <andythenorth> I used a f-string somewhere last week
08:32:08 <andythenorth> didn't know about the : format
08:33:55 <dP> btw, it's probably not the kind of lexical sort you want:
08:33:55 <dP> ```>>> '2object99' < '11object00'
08:34:26 * andythenorth might need to mp4 it or something
08:35:10 <andythenorth> I have not the first clue how to debug that, other than guessing at things in object_gui.cpp
08:35:12 <andythenorth> like UpdateWidgetSize
08:35:19 <dwfreed> the IRC link does not work, surprisingly
08:35:28 <frosch> look for ReInit, and start commenting it out
08:35:38 <dwfreed> normally it goes to the cdn, this time it did not
08:36:57 <TrueBrain> and the .mov worked; the reference to an older message did not 😛
08:37:18 * andythenorth watches slow macOS linker link
08:37:26 <TrueBrain> if it would be worth my time, I would replace it with a link to the IRC weblogs 😛
08:37:30 <TrueBrain> but I am way too lazy for that today 🙂
08:37:50 <dwfreed> converting would not be simple, likely
08:38:10 <dwfreed> you'd probably better off doing inline quoting
08:39:00 <andythenorth> ok, commenting out the ReInit() on L455 prevents the window resizing when different object is selected
08:39:19 <andythenorth> it also prevents the correct number of views for the object being shown 🙂
08:39:26 <TrueBrain> dwfreed: not any easier (or more difficult) tbh .. as on Discord it is just a link, not an actual reference to an object .. so you need to look that up too 😛
08:39:33 <dP> are there any irc logs that still work reliably?
08:45:38 <dP> oh, that one I didn't know, ty
08:47:41 <dwfreed> the anchors for the lines have sequence numbers; that's unfortunate
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09:34:38 <andythenorth> the convention seems to be to put grf name into object classnames
09:34:48 <andythenorth> but that's noisy, entropic etc
09:35:12 <andythenorth> seems that the classnames are rendered **per grf**?
09:35:19 <andythenorth> so there's no risk of interleaving?
09:41:45 <Brickblock1> they can use the same class and some sets use abbreviations in the class name
09:42:14 <andythenorth> do we think it orders by class identifier then?
09:42:23 <reldred> Yeah similar to stations if they use the same class they overwrite
09:42:40 <reldred> First grf sets the order iirc, or is it last? I dunno
09:42:43 <andythenorth> unrelated: how do I edit OpenTTD strings in en-gb?
09:43:04 <andythenorth> I have edited src/lang/english.txt, but that doesn't show up changes on a normal `make`
09:43:08 <andythenorth> do I need to re-run cmake?
09:43:21 <JGR> andythenorth: No it's just the order you load the GRFs in
09:43:31 <andythenorth> so no interleaving...
09:43:40 <frosch> i am surprised the list is not sorted alphabetical
09:43:49 <frosch> i don't think the sort-by-load-order is intentional
09:44:00 <reldred> Adding alphabetical sort made A Lot Of People Unhappy
09:44:20 <reldred> Yup, didn’t work well in practice
09:44:24 <andythenorth> we added alphabetical sort *many* other places 🙂
09:44:35 <andythenorth> oh there was complaining about that I remember
09:45:06 <reldred> Because of categories and sub categories in fridaemons stuff and garryg’s stuff it turned into an absolute dogs breakfast incredibly quickly.
09:46:25 * andythenorth figured out compiling
09:47:09 <reldred> Is their way of arranging their grf’s optimum in the grand scheme of things? Probably not. Is it the best idea they can muster with the tools available to them right now? Probably yes.
09:47:28 <andythenorth> if the filter actually worked it might help some 😛
09:49:22 <reldred> Hmm, I think sometimes people forget that a lot of people navigate computers by building up a muscle memory of the layout, like, yes a filter sounds like a better idea, but if I intrinsically know and remember that something I want is three quarters down the list I’ll automatically do that instead of typing it in, I won’t even think about it.
09:50:10 <reldred> I had similar issues before in other computer user interfaces.
09:50:58 <frosch> yes, but memory can be retrained
09:51:15 <frosch> cargos also used to be in definition order
09:51:32 <frosch> and people had memorized that livestock is in position 8
09:51:48 <frosch> but with adding more cargos, that was increasingly useless
09:52:08 <frosch> so now, cargos are sorted alphabetical, with maybe an exception for passengers
09:52:39 <frosch> for 32/64 cargos in unknown mods that is way better, for the original 12 cargos you have to retrain your muscle memory
09:54:43 <reldred> Sure people can relearn it, but often that’s more palatable to relearn the list order than using a filter.
09:54:58 <andythenorth> let's try a filter that works first and then see 😛
09:55:01 <reldred> I mean the loading order of grf’s makes the list order change
09:55:01 <andythenorth> this one doesn't work
09:55:11 <andythenorth> one step at a time 🙂
09:55:29 <reldred> Well yes, I think making what we already have work moar betterer is still a net positive
09:57:13 <andythenorth> reldred: you in a place with FIRS yet? 😛
09:57:49 <reldred> Am I in a what with a where?
09:58:07 <andythenorth> not much FIRS in the bush
09:58:08 <reldred> Oh yes I’m home now. I’m no longer shooting idiots with toy guns.
09:58:16 <andythenorth> I am about to do a 4.11.0
09:59:18 <reldred> Firs version 4.20 to finally add cannabis chain to in a hot country.
09:59:34 <andythenorth> Do we transport it by train?
10:00:08 <reldred> Dunno, i know here medical MJ is basically treated like an armoured cargo class.
10:00:15 <reldred> Very heavily guarded.
10:00:39 <reldred> Tobacco is also very tightly controlled but not quite as severely.
10:01:06 <andythenorth> is it all a bit Road Warrior when transported?
10:03:44 <reldred> Not sure, I think it’s mostly just armoured trucks.
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10:49:50 <frosch> i am not sure all the extra details make it better
10:50:16 <frosch> originally i only wanted to illustrate select_sprite_layout, prepare_sprite_layout and default
10:51:09 <andythenorth> do I make FIRS generate stations next? 😛
10:51:33 <frosch> does the graph encourage or discourage you to do so?
10:53:06 <andythenorth> it's nice to have a graph
10:53:16 <andythenorth> the contents of the grf disturb me very
10:53:50 <frosch> all your spritesets are belong to us
10:54:27 <andythenorth> one day I will figure out what to do with stations
10:54:35 <andythenorth> it's very contextual
10:54:48 <andythenorth> when I am watching the trains go by, I want stations to show cargo for 'everything is ok'
10:55:10 <andythenorth> when I am trying to monitor whether my network sucks, I want stations to show cargo for 'everything is not ok'
10:55:25 <andythenorth> these are not orthogonal goals 😛
10:55:38 <andythenorth> ` nmlc info: Object items: 225/256`
10:55:59 <andythenorth> I am not adding any more currently, as there are cases I can't support, like water, and terrain-aware tiles
11:01:21 <andythenorth> the number per FIRS economy is somewhat lower, so I might be able to shard ID
11:01:42 <andythenorth> but my first attempt at that was prevented by nml trying to guard me against myself
11:18:07 <FLHerne> fwiw, 0ad does have Javascript AIs and 'gamescripts', as well as in some content scripting, and it seems to work
11:18:36 <FLHerne> spidermonkey is a huge and annoying dep though
11:18:50 <andythenorth> my career contains 'avoiding javascript'
11:18:54 <andythenorth> both for fun or money
11:20:38 <FLHerne> build a C compiler into ottd so it can be compiled and executed at runtime
11:20:57 <andythenorth> what about bytecode?
11:21:16 <FLHerne> TrueBrain would complain about having to serve for all different archs
11:21:37 <dwfreed> yeah, just write your own VM
11:21:50 <dwfreed> cross-compile to whitespace
11:21:56 <FLHerne> and the people playing on a Z80 or whatever would complain about it not being supported at all
11:33:01 <andythenorth> does colour cb work for objects? 😛
11:33:18 <andythenorth> `colour :palette_1cc(COLOUR_GREY);` compiles, but has no effect
11:40:03 <andythenorth> colour doesn't apply in purchase
11:47:13 <frosch> so "colour: return COLOUR_GREY;"
11:48:11 <frosch> gui seems to use company colour always
11:51:03 <frosch> it's sunny today, we could have had a ottd party today. yesterday it was raining
11:52:03 <andythenorth> "in OpenTTD world, there is no weather"
11:53:13 <frosch> the sun is always shining in OpenTTD 🎶
11:54:01 <andythenorth> such objects in grey
11:54:40 <frosch> did you have good reasons to not just use player's cc?
11:54:46 <frosch> then it is at least known who built it
11:55:12 <andythenorth> just that it looks quite loud
11:57:27 <andythenorth> it's not the worst thing ever
11:58:49 <andythenorth> maybe I select colour using map xy 😛
11:59:00 <andythenorth> so one region is all red, etc
12:01:20 <frosch> haha, if you use the same algorithm in industries, it works out :p
12:01:31 <frosch> both industries and objects have access to nearest town
12:01:42 <frosch> so they could agree on an industry colour per town
12:01:49 <frosch> possibly per industry type
12:02:38 <andythenorth> changing colour by time
12:02:43 <andythenorth> to reflect the weather
12:03:14 <frosch> day cycle is too fast, so you have to use moon cycle
12:03:59 <frosch> maybe industries could charge up blue -> green -> yellow -> red, before they release cargo to stations
12:03:59 <andythenorth> I could mod(16) the town index 😛
12:06:45 <andythenorth> hmm is town parent for objects?
12:09:28 <andythenorth> oh that actually works
12:09:32 <andythenorth> it was intended as trolling
12:13:58 <andythenorth> could be confusing
12:20:39 <reldred> I think it’s a suitable compromise, maybe each industry can take the town index and then apply a fixed offset, which the matching object can also match?
12:21:01 <andythenorth> that's an interesting idea
12:21:24 <reldred> So industries will still have different colours but yeah still computable for the objects
12:21:44 <reldred> And multiple of the same industry per town if funded match colour too
12:21:45 <andythenorth> the purchase won't match, but eh
12:21:54 <reldred> Meh who cares about that
12:22:00 <andythenorth> I will try this in a bit
12:35:54 <andythenorth> how do I spin the result
12:36:06 <andythenorth> 16 choices, town_index % 16
12:36:21 <andythenorth> then rotate using an offset from the industry
12:40:04 <andythenorth> I can do it with a big stack of generated switches 😛
12:40:24 <andythenorth> but one line of nml in an expression, I am not smart enough 😛
12:41:40 <dP> rotate like `(town_index + offset) % 16` ?
12:42:01 <andythenorth> something like that yes
12:42:34 <dwfreed> offset could just be the industry's type ID ?
12:42:41 <andythenorth> yes that's what I was going to use
12:46:57 <reldred> I like what is happening here
12:52:14 <andythenorth> works great, until it hits a town border 😄
12:54:09 <andythenorth> think we can live with that 😛
12:54:28 <andythenorth> does this need a parameter? Or is it just The Best?
12:54:41 <reldred> It’s dope as fuck. Ship it.
12:56:35 <frosch> look, now you can redraw industries using 2CC
12:56:49 <frosch> first CC depending on town, second random or player-funded
12:57:14 <frosch> we are tried of hearing about 3CC for vehicles, start with 2CC for industries :p
12:59:59 <andythenorth> I could do 2CC industries with graphics processing
13:00:08 <andythenorth> or recolour sprites
13:00:42 <andythenorth> I banned about half of the actual company colours by remapping them to better colours
13:00:54 <andythenorth> which means there's 50% spare randomness for 2cc 😛
13:03:43 <frosch> "better company colours" could be a newgrf 🙂
13:05:08 <Brickblock1> there are almost 2
13:11:05 <andythenorth> ok so if players want objects matching their station
13:11:17 <andythenorth> that can be in a different category 😛
13:15:23 <reldred> Colour picker in the UI would be nice
13:20:46 <andythenorth> colour pickers everywhere
13:20:50 <petern> andythenorth: Flooded roads disaster? Washed out tracks?
13:21:23 <petern> Aren't objects company owned? Therefore company colour...
13:21:44 <andythenorth> but model railways....
13:25:09 <andythenorth> dunno about all industries in a town being same colour
13:25:16 <andythenorth> very convenient when I want to test though
13:25:18 <frosch> petern: the company colour is copied from the company to the object on construction
13:25:35 <frosch> objects do not repaint, if you change your CC
13:26:00 <frosch> the object gui "could" offer a colour selection, which just replaced the CC for the next object built
13:26:24 <dP> except when that cc is taken
13:26:41 <frosch> andythenorth: it's probably fine, if different industry types still have different color
13:26:50 <Brickblock1> andythenorth: this would never happen without funding
13:26:56 <frosch> same industries nearby are rare, though if they are it's bad if you cannot distinguish them :p
13:26:56 <andythenorth> hmm this might be worth a parameter
13:27:28 <andythenorth> pseudo-random colour would be so helpful when making the docs images
13:27:31 <andythenorth> but maybe not for players
13:27:35 <petern> Have I eaten enough? Hmm.
13:29:07 <andythenorth> maybe I just yolo 'colour from town'
13:29:30 <andythenorth> towns have town_index 😛
13:29:36 <andythenorth> there's no case for building 4 steel plants next to each other
13:29:41 <andythenorth> so this won't come up often
13:30:22 <reldred> The only times it would happen the player would probably enjoy having them the same colour anyway (large complex)
13:30:47 <frosch> andythenorth: play more silicon valley :p
13:31:13 <andythenorth> well this isn't a dead end if it needs changed
13:31:16 <frosch> but i agree with reldred, same colour may not be a bad thing
13:38:31 * andythenorth wonders how multi-tile objects work
14:04:46 <andythenorth> objects up to 15x15 😮
14:04:51 <andythenorth> I thought they were 2x2 😛
14:08:02 <Brickblock1> are you going to have fully industries?
14:10:01 <frosch> please don't add firs industries as houses :p
14:10:09 <andythenorth> that could be funny
14:10:19 <andythenorth> then 'industries' would be towns
14:10:24 <andythenorth> I could do a town name grf
14:10:31 <andythenorth> variations on 'Steel Complex'
14:10:41 <andythenorth> and they could all communicate via town
14:10:49 <andythenorth> this might be quite a good idea
14:10:53 <frosch> would you still generate your townnameset from firs source, or use truegrf?
14:11:11 <andythenorth> I would probably try and make calls to truegrf with curl
14:11:36 <frosch> i expected no less of you 🙂
14:11:46 <TallTyler> Houses have a production callback so they actually work as primary production, but there's no way to know how much cargo they received so you couldn't do secondary industries
14:11:47 <petern> Cargo type "pollution", produced by buildings and accepted by waste processing industry...
14:12:00 <andythenorth> TallTyler: but the GS knows
14:12:03 <TallTyler> ITI has houses produce Waste which then gets recycled...
14:12:09 <andythenorth> petern: there's a test FIRS with 'pollution' in grf
14:12:13 <andythenorth> via the town registers
14:12:23 <TallTyler> The current version just steals the Mail ID but I previously used the production callback
14:12:26 <petern> Okay well that's me out of "original" ideas
14:12:53 <TallTyler> It gets pretty stupid with airplanes which are coded to carry cargo ID 1 and not "MAIL"
14:13:09 <andythenorth> FIRS pollution it doesn't work very well
14:13:19 <andythenorth> writing a monthly 'town' callback was hard
14:13:21 <TallTyler> Pollution spawns biters?
14:13:35 <frosch> TallTyler: ECS experimented with industries as houses (gas stations etc). the problem is that houses are regulary demolished and rebuild, so you have no stable acceptance
14:14:04 <TallTyler> ITL Houses blocks most demolition and rebuild of signature buildings
14:14:23 <TallTyler> Using either the Protected flag or the equivalent callback
14:14:49 <TallTyler> I even wrote a Historic Preservation function
14:16:15 <TallTyler> GS should be able to cause disasters
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14:24:27 <andythenorth> can't GS just demolish player stuff?
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14:32:18 <frosch> disaster: all player property destroyed, please restart
14:32:40 <frosch> though i guess even GS cannot destroy infrastructures with vehicles on it
14:32:48 <frosch> gs first has to send vehicles to depot :p
14:32:57 <petern> EMP destroys all your modern electrics, go back to steam...
14:33:01 <frosch> ah, disaster: strike, all vehicles send to depot to stop
14:53:35 <petern> SetPadding(uint8 top, uint8 right, uint8 bottom, uint8 left)
14:53:50 <petern> Someone copied madness from css 🙂
14:54:22 <frosch> ah, i always wondered where that order came from
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16:56:14 <FLHerne> sounds useful though, "getting old" is annoying
16:56:39 <LordAro> "This is because the setting's range ([-12, 12]) includes negative numbers"
16:56:48 <petern> Yes, autorenew allows renewing before max age.
17:00:06 <andythenorth> anyone poked the object selection UI bug yet?
17:00:11 <andythenorth> it's lolz when you encounter it
17:00:22 <petern> I couldn't reproduce it.
17:00:30 <andythenorth> maybe it's the way I click
17:00:35 <andythenorth> mousedown vs. mouseup
17:01:01 <andythenorth> it's quite a specific condition
17:04:19 <petern> Do I want to switch from font-awesome to Google's Material symbols?
17:04:47 <petern> If they made a compatibility wrapper they'd be on to something.
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17:15:04 <petern> Just make everything scaled and dynamic, he though. Easy, he thought.
17:16:19 <andythenorth> "add objects to FIRS, Friday night, done in an hour"
17:16:28 <andythenorth> 3 OpenTTD PRs later...
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17:23:35 <andythenorth> multi-tile works
17:23:46 <andythenorth> selection menu though...
17:23:58 <andythenorth> do I have to do a big purchase sprite or something?
17:25:28 <frosch> though you can probably combine the single sprites into a single layout
17:25:40 <andythenorth> oh just overlap and shift?
17:26:21 <frosch> gui draws sprites in the order they appear in the layout
17:26:28 <frosch> there is no magic sprite sorting or clipping
17:26:42 <andythenorth> might try a purchase layout then
17:28:00 <andythenorth> or just paint the sprites
17:28:25 <andythenorth> this is only 7 industries currently
17:41:58 <petern> Strava KOMs that get stolen by runners forgetting to turn off when driving home...
17:45:10 <LordAro> i have a KOM that semi-regularly gets stolen that way
17:45:17 <LordAro> the report button gets used very quickly
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17:46:36 <petern> Yeah, I ... just haven't noticed because it's not something I really care about, but...
17:47:20 <petern> There's doubtless loads of other random segments that I'm nowhere near KOM on that are also "bugged"
17:47:52 <petern> It's a bit silly really, Strava could easily detect such problems on upload.
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17:48:22 <LordAro> i only have maybe 2 "actual" KOMs, the rest are just too short and under trees and so forth, so very limited by GPS weirdnesses
17:48:36 <petern> Yeah, those still count IMHO 😄
17:48:43 <petern> (Mainly cos I have sone...)
17:51:55 <petern> I've got a 4.22km "KOM" that is unlikely to be beaten as it's 1) flat and 2) relies on no traffic in a couple of spots.
17:52:18 * LordAro flags segment as dangerous
17:52:38 <petern> It's country lanes, you can hear if there is traffic, but if there is, it's going to slow you 🙂
17:53:59 <petern> There's an off-road loop I made which I'm KOM at 😄
17:54:14 <petern> Possibly because only 8 other riders have done it.
17:55:24 <petern> 11 km off road so you gotta take the trails in the right order I guess 😄
17:55:34 <petern> At least it does actually have climbs (and descents) in it
17:56:14 <petern> Hmm, most of mine at from 3-5 years ago, sad.
17:57:00 <petern> Downward spiral now...
18:01:53 <andythenorth> this extends my understanding of 'build anywhere' 😛
18:01:59 <andythenorth> I guess airports do that
18:02:01 <andythenorth> much foundations
18:09:32 <petern> God I hate warning C4838: conversion from 'uint' to 'int' requires a narrowing conversion
18:11:17 <petern> Good ol' kudos... given just for getting out 😄
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18:58:12 <petern> andythenorth: I like this comment in the object GUI...
18:58:16 <petern> /* We do not want the window to resize when selecting objects; better clip texts */
19:00:12 <petern> It probably works fine at 1x zoom
19:00:33 <petern> But I am wrangling zoom already so
19:02:46 <andythenorth> I guess the object view selector is very large to accommodate large objects? 😛
19:11:35 <petern> Good job I cycled today
19:26:18 <petern> LordAro, I need new road tyres, should I go tubeless?
19:27:29 <andythenorth> nmlc info: Object items: 222/256
19:28:58 <LordAro> or, only if you put tubes inside them
19:29:41 <LordAro> my (2nd hand) experience with them is always "they're great until you have a problem, in which case your ride is ruined"
19:30:21 <LordAro> also you've got to carry spare tubes with you regardless
19:31:00 <LordAro> so if y9u're actually in a position where you're getting a real benefit from the reduced rolling resistance, you've probably got a car with spare wheels behind you
19:31:28 <petern> Marathon Plus should do 😉
19:32:08 <petern> "Out of Stock", god damn it
19:32:21 <FLHerne> I swear by my Michelin Pro4s, they're just as indestructible as Marathons but less resistance
19:32:27 <FLHerne> the grip kind of sucks though
19:32:42 <petern> Nah, I have Marathons on the tourer, not on the summer bike.
19:33:10 <petern> Got Schwalbe One on at the moment, but I spotted a big gash today.
19:33:24 <FLHerne> I just have a bike for all purposes :p
19:33:38 <petern> I just have a bike for each purpose
19:34:01 <FLHerne> one bike hanging off the back of my little boat is enough of a pain
19:34:08 <FLHerne> I can't really start stacking them
19:35:43 <Wolf01> Hmmm, is it too soon to sleep?
19:36:30 <petern> Wolf01, only if you can't sleep.
19:39:11 <FLHerne> yeah, my next bike will definitely have clearance for larger tyres
19:39:19 <FLHerne> I'm almost tempted to go 650B or something
19:41:16 <petern> Continental Pair Grand Prix 5000 Folding Tires 700x28c Black Cream Road Race - £213.51
19:41:53 <LordAro> GP 4season do perfectly well on my commuter
19:42:15 <LordAro> they're not quite as bulletproof as marathons, but i've had very few issues in several years
19:43:18 <petern> Okay, £106 for a pair of GP5000 28c from CRC. Still a lot.
19:44:57 <petern> Tan wall seems to be making a comeback.
20:00:19 <petern> Ah LifeLine Essential, £9.99
20:05:03 <andythenorth> releasing FIRS requires actually shipping it 😛
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20:24:34 <andythenorth> or animate some objects
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20:49:55 <glx[d]> pff I forgot to run black
20:50:15 <andythenorth> I defined a FIRS parameter twice
20:50:24 <andythenorth> gung-ho level was 812% not 300% 😛
20:50:31 <andythenorth> over-lapping bits
20:51:16 <glx[d]> hmm not a fan of black decision here
20:51:35 <glx[d]> let's try to put the comment somewhere else
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20:55:24 <andythenorth> black will black
20:57:18 <glx[d]> yeah black was ``` # Always copy values from "prepare_layout" into new registers, to prevent "default" from modifying them.
20:57:18 <glx[d]> and isinstance(value, expression.StorageOp)
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20:59:01 <andythenorth> ah the inlining comment thing 😄
21:01:15 <andythenorth> using these FIRS objects in my games is not really a thing 🙂
21:01:28 <andythenorth> the slightest little change shifts all the IDs for all the objects on the map
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continue to next day ⏵
