IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-08-15
00:07:39 <reldred> yeas
00:08:57 <NEKOMASTER> no, its not working, every broken, my house is on fire, and the sun is dying
00:09:10 <NEKOMASTER> and I might need another cup of coffee
00:09:31 <reldred> and a valium and a lie down by the sounds of it
00:12:25 <NEKOMASTER> Lol I'm just mostly joking. Being serious all the time is boring and depressing 😄
00:13:01 <NEKOMASTER> Anyways.
00:13:01 <NEKOMASTER> I think the last time I was on IRC was to get andy's help with either using road hogs code or FIRS code to make my own stuff.
00:13:51 <reldred> I was back on IRC for a bit a while ago but I just didn't use it enough to justify continuing.
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03:12:15 <ag> Damn
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04:39:00 <WoozyDragon4018> IRC 😳
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04:45:08 <ag> I will be joining the IRC channel shortly
04:47:45 <NEKOMASTER> Why, the bridge allows IRC <-> Discord communications
04:48:06 <NEKOMASTER> so we're not just seeing whats going on with IRC but are able to communicate with the boomers on IRC 😄
04:48:23 <NEKOMASTER> ALSO I wonder how IRC clients even handle emoji's
04:54:07 <reldred> Depends on the client. The one I was using had no problems rendering them, doing inline images, etc.
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04:58:10 <dwfreed> for terminal IRC clients, it depends on the terminal emulator
04:58:15 <dwfreed> mine shows them just fine
04:59:26 <dwfreed> TrueBrain: the bridge reconnects 1 user every 5 seconds; there are about 20,000 matrix users connecting via the bridge
04:59:54 <WoozyDragon4018> people still use irc?
05:00:00 <dwfreed> TrueBrain: also, your discord bridge is quickly going to hit connection limits, as we view a whole /64 as a single "IP" for v6
05:00:36 <dwfreed> WoozyDragon4018: yes, there are roughly 100,000 people across various IRC networks, at least
05:00:56 <WoozyDragon4018> nice
05:01:15 <WoozyDragon4018> we see you as a bot, i wonder how you guys see us
05:01:17 <NEKOMASTER> Though a lot of the IRC stuff I used to do is dead or baren now
05:01:37 <NEKOMASTER> WoozyDragon4018: They can't see us because JOHN CENA
05:01:47 <WoozyDragon4018> 💀
05:01:59 <WoozyDragon4018> oh it's one webhook changing names as people chat, cool
05:02:51 <dwfreed> WoozyDragon4018: as individual users at present
05:06:09 <reldred> Yeah I’ve seen it done multiple ways, single user and then a prepended name in bold infront of each message, multiple users, yadda yadda
05:06:35 <dwfreed> for self-run relays, single user is preferred in a way
05:06:44 <reldred> I’ve got friends in another server who literally only interact with us through an irc bridge. Bit weird but okay.
05:18:43 <NEKOMASTER> I wonder what happens if I try posting a banned word 😄
05:18:44 <NEKOMASTER> fart
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05:21:33 <datboi11029> seems like that happens
05:24:42 <TrueBrain> dwfreed: 20k already?! That is insane ... for mostly dormant accounts ....
05:25:52 <TrueBrain> The reason I really only wanted to join people that actually participate..
05:28:13 <TrueBrain> About the connection limit .. I expected as much, honestly. I do have a /56 up my sleeve, but I honestly hope it doesn't get that far :)
05:28:51 <TrueBrain> I realised we do either something like this, or several people will just stop interacting with IRC all together .. which is a far worse outcome
05:29:11 <dwfreed> TrueBrain: the default boundary is actually /48 (just checked), but you get 50 connections per /48
05:29:50 <TrueBrain> Basically this is a bit the last hail Mary to keep the community somewhat together :D
05:30:02 <TrueBrain> Owh, 50 .. that shouldn't be a problem
05:30:25 <TrueBrain> The original bridge I looked at wanted to join 1500 IRC users .. that sounded a bit much :p
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05:30:40 <TrueBrain> dwfreed: Tnx for that info, that really helps
05:30:43 <dwfreed> you are currently the only user of the /48 you're in
05:31:33 <TrueBrain> I don't want to kill the joy of my own work, but there are 13 active connections from the same /80 atm
05:32:02 <TrueBrain> Does it count per server?
05:33:34 <dwfreed> network wide, pretty sure
05:34:10 <TrueBrain> I do not want you to check this out (hihi), but your stats seem wrong :p
05:34:35 <TrueBrain> 20k matrix users?! Damn .. still can't get over that number ...
05:34:58 <TrueBrain> There are, what, 100k active IRC connections to the whole network
05:35:12 <dwfreed> OFTC? not counting matrix, it's more like 10k
05:35:23 <dwfreed> yes, matrix is 2/3rds of our population
05:35:46 <TrueBrain> Wauw ... they really have taken over the world
05:35:52 <dwfreed> at this moment (well, as of a few seconds ago), there are currently 8,211 matrix connections; they are still connecting, though
05:36:10 <TrueBrain> That is insane
05:36:31 <dwfreed> current global count is 18,787
05:36:44 <dwfreed> so about 10,500 users not from the main matrix bridge
05:36:57 <dwfreed> (there's a few other bridges, but they've got about 100 to 200 users a piece)
05:37:12 <dwfreed> so 10k total non-matrix is probably about right
05:37:13 <TrueBrain> Anyway, please do let me know if this bridge is an actual problem, I would appreciate that. Really my last hail Mary to keep the community together :D
05:37:42 <dwfreed> it's fine, tbh
05:38:00 <TrueBrain> It is weird that the matrix bridge seems to really dislike netsplits or something
05:39:03 <dwfreed> yeah, it's horribly implemented
05:39:12 <dwfreed> doesn't understand IRC worth a damn
05:39:41 <TrueBrain> Worst part is that you can read messages really quick, but sending silently fails
05:39:43 <dwfreed> and has no means to prevent matrix-side users from speaking when they're quieted on the IRC side
05:40:03 <dwfreed> so matrix users can scream into the void, and IRC can't hear them
05:40:09 <TrueBrain> Exactly
05:40:14 <TrueBrain> Had that a few times now
05:40:22 <TrueBrain> Got really annoyed by it
05:40:45 <TrueBrain> And can't believe I could write my own bridge is less than 500 lines of code ..
05:41:09 <TrueBrain> Well, I have to proof it works better, ofc
05:41:35 <TrueBrain> Did find out that you can keep a reserved name if you NICK quick enough
05:41:46 <TrueBrain> Had to add a sleep to prevent that :D
05:43:00 <TrueBrain> (In IRC that is)
05:43:53 <TrueBrain> The moment between NickServ renaming someone and you chaning to your name is long enough that someone can reclaim the name again
05:44:07 <TrueBrain> That is what bots do, being quick in reacting
05:44:19 <TrueBrain> :D
05:44:44 <LordAro> sounds like a security vulnerability
05:44:49 <TrueBrain> Nah
05:45:15 <dwfreed> services operates by UIDs
05:45:16 <TrueBrain> Well, if your security depends on your IRC nick, you have other problems
05:45:30 <dwfreed> every user has a unique UID, regardless of nikc
05:45:33 <dwfreed> s/kc/ck/
05:45:48 <TrueBrain> Smart
05:47:34 <LordAro> smort
05:49:17 <TrueBrain> Snort
05:54:15 <dwfreed> that is an annoying flaw, though
05:55:21 <TrueBrain> Most IRC networks have it
05:55:31 <dwfreed> libera doesn't!
05:55:50 <TrueBrain> No? Now I want to test ..... :p
05:56:22 <dwfreed> yeah, atheme will send a holdnick before the rsfnc, preventing anybody from changing to the nick
05:56:37 <dwfreed> also the rsfnc usually kills the original user of the nick
05:56:54 <dwfreed> because they don't guest fast enough
05:57:30 <TrueBrain> That does make sense, honestly
05:57:31 <dwfreed> (atheme currently does not have any implementation of "wait for the old user to actually switch to guest before changing the rightful owner's nick")
05:58:09 <TrueBrain> I also expected my connection to be killed trying to hold on to a name :D
05:58:24 <TrueBrain> Like: dude, fuck you, kill :D
05:58:24 <dwfreed> that's what we should do in oftc-hybrid
05:58:49 <TrueBrain> Give it a fair chance, and if you don't play by the rules, out
05:59:10 <TrueBrain> I now just sleep for a second to try renaming again, assuming a second is enough time for this to settle
05:59:14 <TrueBrain> Works equally fine
06:00:32 <TrueBrain> Anyway, tnx for the chat, off to my day job now :D
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07:25:36 <peter1138> Oh thanks, keepalived, you're not meant to fail...
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07:30:32 <LordAro> need a keepalivekeepalivedd
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07:41:05 <WoozyDragon4018> why are all your pfp's pictures of different cats lmao
07:44:36 <peter1138> more like lmeow
07:44:39 <wyndbain> Randomised with the irc- discord bridge
07:44:52 <peter1138> i don't have a pfp, this is irc.
07:45:07 <wyndbain> Yea
07:45:21 <wyndbain> Discord assigns one for you I think?
07:45:30 <wyndbain> Because ur technically a bot
07:45:44 <wyndbain> Idk how it works lmao
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07:48:51 <LordAro> beep boop
07:48:55 <dwfreed> bots can pick their own pfps
07:49:33 <wyndbain> If they don’t there randomly assigned on
07:50:01 <wyndbain> That makes sense in my head at least
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08:00:16 <peter1138> LordAro, how are the legs?
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08:07:07 <JustANortherner> That's a lot of cats...
08:09:41 <LordAro> peter1138: recovering
08:09:52 <LordAro> knees still need some time
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08:16:35 <andythenorth> oof
08:16:41 <andythenorth> didn't have coffee yet
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08:18:43 <reldred> Well, TrueBrain can officially say he’s herding cats now.
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08:38:41 <dwfreed> lol
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09:01:33 <peter1138> Hmm, more coffee
09:09:58 <LordAro> choo choo
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09:25:41 <andythenorth> coffee achieved
09:25:46 <andythenorth> that is today ticked off
09:25:57 <andythenorth> being on holiday, my aspirations are quite low 😛
09:30:40 <andythenorth> oh rain
09:30:42 <andythenorth> strange
09:35:28 <reldred> Yes I imagine you haven’t been having a lot of that lately
09:36:04 <reldred> It’s been amusing explaining to Europeans how to build their gaming PC’s to survive in high ambient temperatures.
09:40:36 <LordAro> ..and how do you do that?
09:41:04 <JustANortherner> reldred: Forget the PC... how do I do it?!
09:44:04 <FLHerne> ok, this bridge is pretty awesome
09:44:06 <reldred> Airflow airflow airflow
09:44:12 <wyndbain> FLHerne: Lmao
09:44:24 <reldred> Same goes for PC’s
09:44:40 <wyndbain> Not just that, you need a stinking great cooler
09:44:42 <peter1138> andythenorth, holiday -> rain, obviously.
09:44:47 <FLHerne> it's pretty much the first time I've seen a bridge from the IRC end that isn't noticeable at all
09:44:48 <wyndbain> Try a massive noctua one
09:44:57 <FLHerne> y'all just look like real people :D
09:45:17 <wyndbain> I’m not real
09:46:24 <reldred> Case design is important, mesh front, two 140’s or three 120’s, remove filter panels and just clean the dust. Rads on exhaust work better than impeding your intake. Intake from front rather than under the case if you’ve got the option.
09:46:39 <FLHerne> real fake people then
09:47:14 <JustANortherner> "I'm a real boy!"
09:48:07 <peter1138> My giant case does not appear to be having issues.
09:48:36 <wyndbain> Do images work?
09:48:40 <reldred> Yah, I’ve seen some people struggling
09:48:41 <JustANortherner> So, I need to put a fan on my exhaust to keep myself cool...
09:48:45 <JustANortherner> Hmmmmm
09:48:50 <wyndbain>
09:48:57 <wyndbain> This shall be a test
09:49:15 <reldred> wyndbain: Depends on client. My last irc client displayed image url’s online
09:49:24 <wyndbain> Aha
09:49:26 <reldred> In-line, even
09:49:37 <reldred> I figure edits won’t work
10:14:59 <peter1138> Okay but that image loads horizontally, from the right.
10:16:10 <wyndbain> Hmmmm
10:16:12 <wyndbain> Interesting
10:17:03 <peter1138> Most jpegs are progressive so you see the whole thing blurry and then it gets sharper.
10:20:32 <wyndbain> That’s why png’s are better
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10:37:18 <peter1138> Not for photos.
10:45:13 <reldred> PNG’s are lossless, so they’re good for photos when space and bandwidth isn’t a concern
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11:03:43 <RektTangleCaptainKlu> I love PNGs, only second to RAW when shooting
11:04:10 <RektTangleCaptainKlu> And smaller than BMP when spriting
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11:04:56 <TheDumGamer> Who are we shooting
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11:05:48 <TallTyler> Come to America, the answer is “everybody” 😦
11:06:49 <wyndbain> Yeah RAW is where it’s at
11:07:16 <wyndbain> But for finalised images PNG
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11:19:29 <peter1138> Woo, breakfast time :D
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11:24:14 <RektTangleCaptainKlu> I only hate PNGs when they snort all my mobile data in 4 seconds because some idiot frontend dev uploaded the full resolution 4k image you can barely see in the background of the website
11:26:06 <andythenorth> modern life is rubbish
11:26:10 <andythenorth> how do we all cope?
11:26:27 <RektTangleCaptainKlu> ketamine
11:26:35 <RektTangleCaptainKlu> and genderfluidity
11:26:39 <RektTangleCaptainKlu> one of those was a joke
11:26:55 <andythenorth> "ketamine killed the rave scene"
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11:37:55 <WoozyDragon4018> wyndbain: webhook magic
11:38:07 <WoozyDragon4018> i wonder how this reply went through
11:38:25 <WoozyDragon4018> still the fact that this bridge works, is wild
11:38:35 <WoozyDragon4018> connecting boomers to zoomers
11:41:51 <andythenorth> lol this weird idea of what boomers are continues
11:42:06 <andythenorth> is it supposed to offend or something?
11:42:25 <wallabra> that boomers are wat
11:42:32 <peter1138> It just rhymes, I guess.
11:42:43 <andythenorth> yeah 'connecting gen x to zoomers' doesn't flow
11:43:01 <wallabra> ebb and flow
11:43:07 <peter1138> Millennials too.
11:43:32 <andythenorth> what even are Millenials?
11:43:35 <andythenorth> I'm very confused
11:43:46 <peter1138> The one between Gen X and Gen Z(oomer)
11:47:26 <peter1138> I was going to buy some expensive dust covers for my music equipment but then ended up buying a pair of pillowcases from Tesco for £3. Optimized design.
11:48:09 <andythenorth> got some pillowcases here
11:48:13 <andythenorth> could have done a deal
11:48:25 <andythenorth> imagine the savings
11:48:54 <andythenorth> anyway Gen Z informs me that there is also Gen Alpha
11:48:58 <andythenorth> but Gen Alpha denies this
11:49:04 <TheDumGamer> Gen alpha are the iPad kids
11:49:05 * andythenorth on-the-ground research
11:49:10 <TheDumGamer> Like 2010 plus
11:49:17 <TheDumGamer> As an official gen Z I inform you
11:49:23 <andythenorth> apparently it's 2011 onwards
11:49:24 <TheDumGamer> They are worse than us
11:49:32 <TheDumGamer> Idk round that time
11:49:37 <andythenorth> ipad from birth
11:49:45 <TheDumGamer> ipad from conception
11:51:02 <peter1138> LordAro, I really like the Klickfix system for front bags.
11:51:35 <peter1138> Although you can't use an outfront mount with it.
12:02:10 <peter1138> Oh right, the needle needs to be in the down position.
12:03:02 <andythenorth> I have missed our chats 🙂
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12:32:54 <wyndbain> RektTangleCaptainKlu: Both seem reasonable tbh
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12:52:04 <peter1138> Rocko's modern life
12:56:59 <peter1138> Mmm, 1980's Tangerine Dream.
12:59:05 <andythenorth> hmm
12:59:11 <andythenorth> now I'm in a rabbit hole 😛
12:59:12 <andythenorth>
13:46:06 <andythenorth> hmm now what
13:46:10 <andythenorth> can I have coffee yet?
13:46:19 <andythenorth> oh, I have to have lunch first 😛
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14:00:11 <LordAro> peter1138: interesting
14:00:40 <LordAro> i've been wondering about swapping the mount out, can't use it with dynamo lights anyway :D
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14:28:40 <EG0611> what is the purpose of this channel?
14:29:26 <wyndbain> Intergration with IRC
14:29:38 <wyndbain> What the devs use
14:30:05 <wyndbain> So people can see what there working on at any given time
14:30:17 <EG0611> devs of new GRF?
14:30:35 <wyndbain> Game developers
14:30:48 <EG0611> ahh other than Openttd?
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14:30:57 <wyndbain> All the bot’s you see are clients from an IRC server
14:31:06 <wyndbain> Nah just the ottd ones
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14:31:23 <EG0611> what is IRC server?
14:32:11 <EG0611> Thanks for info 👍
14:32:36 <nielsm> IRC is the realtime chat system used on the internet since around 1988, to which discord is technically a competitor
14:33:32 <nielsm> (the difference being that nobody owns IRC)
14:38:37 <peter1138> Ah, Discord's very loose definition of running your own "server"...
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14:39:20 <jfs-> yes, I still actively try to avoid using that term when talking about discord
14:40:04 <jfs-> when you can't point to the specific piece of hardware and specific process running on that hardware it's not "a server"
14:41:35 <jfs-> if your "server" is running using shared resources across a distributed mass of hardware and services and databases then it's not "a server" then it's a managed service
14:42:06 <jfs-> in discord internals, it's still called "a guild"
14:42:07 <peter1138> If you want a better term, "Guild" is used throughout the Discord API.
14:42:14 <peter1138>
14:42:19 <peter1138> Haha
14:42:20 <peter1138> Timing :D
14:48:49 <wyndbain> Server sounds better lmao
14:50:25 <LordAro> yeah but it's /wrong/
14:50:44 <LordAro> and you're not allowed to be wrong on the internet
14:50:54 <FLHerne> yeah, because it lies about the fundamental problem with Discord, which is that you can't *have* your own server
14:51:35 <nielsm> yes, it's not *your* "server", the company still owns the hardware and software and data and everything else associated with it
14:52:39 <nielsm> you can't buy a computer and install the discord server software on it and run a service where you yourself own the hardware and database and control the signup etc
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15:01:33 <wyndbain> Yes I mean they call it a server because it’s sounds better
15:01:47 <wyndbain> Plus it’s a massive tech company
15:01:59 <wyndbain> Not exactly gonna be correct are they
15:02:22 <LordAro> since when has that ever stopped people complaining about it?
15:02:44 <wyndbain> Fair enough
15:04:53 <datboi11029> There was a discord thread about that 4 years ago, can't find anything that says it would be bad, but there is a "not planned" tag on it
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16:23:51 <andythenorth> could we have grfs-in-grfs?
16:24:02 * andythenorth wants a faster compiler
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16:45:08 <peter1138> You can have Doom-in-Doom.
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16:52:05 <andythenorth> excellent
16:52:09 <andythenorth> everything is now complete
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17:43:19 <Wolf01> <peter1138> You can have Doom-in-Doom. <- we already had maniac mansion in maniac mansion 2, the path was doomed :P
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18:11:56 <ckb> is there a way to follow a vehicle in the main viewport, like it does with the vehicle window?
18:12:59 <LordAro> there's an icon in the toolbar you can click
18:13:02 <LordAro> i forget which one
18:14:37 <andythenorth> the pin drop icon
18:14:43 <andythenorth> double click to follow I think
18:15:01 <LordAro> it used to be ctrl+click on the eye
18:15:07 <LordAro> but the eye was removed
18:15:55 <ckb> ah perfect doubleclicking the pin worked :D
18:15:59 <ckb> thank you guys :D
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20:16:12 <TrueBrain> <- to tempt those that want to join the other side 😛
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20:29:17 <frosch> there is an open feature request to join voice channels
20:31:05 <frosch> i can't tell whether the request for image support is a troll
20:37:06 <nielsm>
20:38:07 <frosch> yes, sdl1 had a aalib backend, so you could start openttd with it
20:38:38 <frosch> but apparently there are libraries which display pictures in x11 childwindows over terminal windows
20:38:49 <frosch> and i don't understand the point...
20:39:21 <nielsm> use just a VT340 terminal
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20:39:44 <frosch> <- like... why?
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20:49:21 <FLHerne> why not?
20:49:36 <FLHerne> it's handy to be able to `cat` or `less` some file to see what's in it
20:49:59 <FLHerne> being able to do the same with images without some extra window popping up and stealing focus might be nice
20:53:41 <frosch> hmm, focus-stealing,.. fair reason
20:55:49 <nielsm> if you use classic xterm you actually get emulation of terminal types that support graphics and not just text
20:58:48 <andythenorth> irc in openttd when?
20:58:57 <andythenorth> oh we did that before, ignore me
20:59:05 <andythenorth> coop channel used to sync to multiplayer chat
20:59:23 <frosch> are the coop zombie bouncers still online?
20:59:28 <andythenorth> probably 😛
20:59:40 <frosch> i noticed that discord is now a bouncer for me
20:59:44 <andythenorth> @ammler
20:59:48 <andythenorth> hmm maybe not
21:00:19 <frosch> like, i get notified of highlights after join
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23:04:08 <ckb> is there a way to save my "layout"? i know this is kinda lazy but i alway keep transparency options and and landscaping up and pinned :D
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