IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-08-16
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02:03:26 <audigexJon> Like save your UI layout so that everything always re-opens in the same place when you open the savegame etc? I don't *think* that's possible
02:04:10 <audigexJon> TrueBrain: How do I know whether they're still online again? Just realised that previous message was 3 hours ago
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03:13:14 <EmperorJake> ckb: You can ctrl click the pin button to always keep it pinned
04:52:03 <kamnet> Aha! The magical bridge has finally appeared!
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04:53:15 <EmperorJake> Yes, hello IRC people finally
04:53:44 <EmperorJake> I would probably have joined you back in 2009 if it weren't for mIRC having free trial bollocks
05:15:24 <reldred> audigexJon: to be fair that's largely the norm on irc... since most people run bouncers and get their messages while they're offline conversations can span days...
05:27:46 <NEKOMASTER> EmperorJake: Back int he day there was Pidgeon which supported IRC, as well as a plugin/addon for Firefox, forgot what it was called
05:28:27 <NEKOMASTER> Today if I where to do IRC I'd still get pidgeon but theres little use for its other abilities since pretty much all the other instant messaging services died off
06:06:38 <TrueBrain> audigexJon: Currently it shows when someone leaves within 10 minutes of last talking.. I could increase that number.
06:13:16 <kamnet> I started out using IRC on a VAX-VMS system at Indiana University, 1994.
06:14:15 <kamnet> I used Trillian for quite a few years back when chat was spread across MSN, IRC, ICQ, AIM, Yahoo and something else I forgot about.
06:14:46 <kamnet> Then when everything but FB died I was using Mibbit for a bit.
06:16:36 <kamnet> These day's it's FB, Discord and just started using Telegram for some business chats I'm on.
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07:28:51 <Wolf01> Hmm, I hope they wouldn't need another year to ship my steam deck
07:31:09 <kamnet> They're shipping it by Steam Boat. 🙂
07:31:26 <NEKOMASTER> Remember, shipments go by valve time 🙂
07:31:57 <Wolf01> Probably, like they built it with SteamPowered machines
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07:33:55 <Wolf01> Preordered it on aug 3rd 2021, got the confirmation window yesterday evening
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07:35:25 <Wolf01> And luckily they stepped up on production, because my window was set to 2023 after the second delay
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07:42:18 <Wolf01> Meanwhile, laptop battery died, hwinfo shows 100% degradation, not charging at all... still powers the laptop. It's funny that the charging indicator doesn't blink in error anymore
07:43:04 <peter1138> So how well does OpenTTD play on it...
07:43:26 <Wolf01> As soon as I get it I'll try
07:44:39 <Wolf01> The store page says "playable"
07:44:56 <peter1138> No doubt it'll run fine, but that's not the same as playable :D
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07:50:50 <Wolf01> I managed to play it on the laptop with touch screen only, so it shouldn't be so unplayable with more buttons other than the volume controls/windows button :P
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08:28:38 <Wolf01> So, I didn't play OpenTTD for ages, tried to move the viewport with WASD every 3 seconds and looked for the keys to rotate the map... yes.
08:41:57 <peter1138> Urgh, fighting "hunger"
08:44:13 <andythenorth> I am learning to live on one morning coffee
08:44:20 <andythenorth> fighting "coffee"
08:44:35 <andythenorth> water isn't really hitting the spot
08:47:56 <peter1138> I've had 3. I guess water will be good for now.
08:48:20 <peter1138> (I even had breakfast today, so not hungry...)
08:48:58 <andythenorth> I have replaced 'standardised coffee anxiety' with 'intrusive thoughts about when I can have coffee again'
08:49:06 <andythenorth> not sure which is bette
08:49:45 <peter1138> Oops, needle suddenly picked up a load of fluff.
08:50:43 <andythenorth> on your CD player?
08:51:26 <WoozyDragon4018> cassette player
08:51:40 <peter1138> Pff, nobody uses CDs these days. I'm streaming from vinyl.
08:52:02 <JustANortherner> andythenorth: I feel dead every time I do this... need caffeine
08:53:02 <andythenorth> so laser turntables are a thing for vinyl
08:53:08 <andythenorth> but they play all the dust and fluff as signal
08:53:22 <andythenorth> what about a tiny needle for CDs though>?
08:54:02 <peter1138> Well the advantage is they won't degrade the vinyl, even if the signal isn't actually better.
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08:55:27 <andythenorth> think we could build an 808 in OpenTTD?
08:55:34 <peter1138> But archivers do extensive cleaning and use machines with multiple tonearms so they can can pick the best/average result, cos it's not that damaging.
08:55:42 <andythenorth> the obvious cheating route would be grf vehicles with custom sound samples for sound effects 😛
08:56:23 <peter1138> You could probably simulate oscillators but I'm not sure about transients and filters.
08:56:29 <andythenorth> 'exiting depot' might the best thing to use as trigger
08:56:35 <andythenorth> can probably use those fancy signals to control it
08:56:45 <peter1138> Also, Behringer RD-8 for a modern cheap clone.
08:57:10 <peter1138> Oh shit. No. Do. Not. Need.
08:57:18 <andythenorth> vehicle with sound effect dependent on slope?
08:57:27 <andythenorth> gets us a waveform...
08:58:30 <peter1138> I never did make a recording of my new synth to give to Belugas to continue the BTZ stuff.
08:58:38 <peter1138> And since then, I... got another synth. Oops.
08:58:47 <andythenorth> can we connect OpenTTD to midi?
08:58:56 <Wolf01> Hmmm, I need to cram another train into the single track, let's see what will happen
08:58:56 <andythenorth> I mean....there's midi for everything no?
08:59:18 <peter1138> Well it does already play MIDI :D
08:59:18 <LordAro> andythenorth: how long can newgrf sounds be? could a vehicle play a whole song on exiting a depot?
08:59:38 <JustANortherner> @Wolf01#0000 what's the worst that can happen?
08:59:58 <andythenorth> lordaro never tested 🙂
09:01:06 <peter1138> For GRFv1 the limit was 64KiB per sound.
09:01:41 <peter1138> No other limit specified, so... I guess so :D
09:01:48 <andythenorth> something that loops a lot then 😛
09:01:50 <peter1138> Length limit, that is.
09:05:17 <Wolf01> JustANortherner: not a gridlock for sure, probably they just need to wait their turn
09:06:06 <JustANortherner> Sounds good to me! Although a good timetable will mean no waiting required
09:07:54 <andythenorth> how to control vehicle speed (for beats per minute)
09:08:02 <andythenorth> in the vehicle, or via railtype?
09:08:30 <andythenorth> also it's a shame we don't have redstone in OpenTTD
09:08:52 <andythenorth> I know we have the fancy signals shit, but it's faffy
09:09:07 <peter1138> Did OpenTTD ever get good timetabling or was that still considered bad?
09:09:19 <andythenorth> there are many kinds of timetabling in JGRPP
09:09:21 <peter1138> andythenorth, railtypes with a speed limit I guess.
09:09:27 <peter1138> Many kinds is bad, I guess.
09:09:27 <andythenorth> they are considered 'essential'
09:09:45 <andythenorth> I think there are enough kinds that everyone is happy 🙂
09:10:04 <andythenorth> I don't know if timetabling is reliable enough to build a synth though
09:10:27 <andythenorth> so a tile type that can conduct 0/1 to neighbouring tiles?
09:10:35 <andythenorth> and some kind of logic tile
09:10:43 <andythenorth> and a 'press this button for on / off' tile
09:10:50 <peter1138> Nah, logic engines.
09:11:01 <peter1138> That standard critical use of block signals.
09:11:02 <andythenorth> redstone clone is too easy?
09:11:08 <andythenorth> do it the hard way 😛
09:11:09 <JustANortherner> peter1138: I just hit the "auto-timetable" button on JGR...
09:11:20 <peter1138> "But that makes it too easy!"
09:11:26 <andythenorth> that's not timetabling pilot 😛
09:11:32 <JustANortherner> Apparently it's better than it used to be via JGRs, but I don't timetable my trains in game...
09:11:40 <peter1138> Oh the record finished. Silly player, not automatically switching to a different album.
09:11:53 <JustANortherner> I timetable trains all day for a living, like hell am I gonna do it in a game...
09:12:16 <andythenorth> is your job not just pressing 'auto-timetable'?
09:12:32 <andythenorth> most of my job is just knowing which button to press
09:13:21 <JustANortherner> My job is looking at graphs and going "I can squeeze another train through that 6 minute gap all the way to London"
09:14:20 <peter1138> Professional train timetable plays OpenTTD to timetable trains...
09:14:39 <peter1138> Professional software develer "plays" OpenTTD to develop it.
09:14:43 <peter1138> There's a theme here.
09:15:08 <andythenorth> I am considering starting a model train manufacturing business 😛
09:16:26 <peter1138> Hmm, this album is basically Rick Wakeman synth noodling.
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09:36:17 <Wolf01> I really forgot how to play or I have a wrong memory that reliability improved with use?
09:48:42 <Timberwolf> Truck drivers relaxing by playing ETS2/ATS is a legitimate Thing :)
09:51:53 <JustANortherner> Aye, I fully believe if you love a job like trucking, you're more than happy to do it in your spare time on stuff like ETS/ATS.
09:51:53 <JustANortherner> As much as I enjoy my job, I need to shut off when my laptop goes off some time between 1700 and 1800...
09:52:03 <JustANortherner> Numbers and graphs all day are painful...
09:52:47 <nielsm> Wolf01: reliability for new vehicle models starts low at introduction, rises to maximum for that model in that game within a few years, stays at maximum for most of the model lifetime, then drops when it's about to be phased out
09:53:20 <nielsm> vehicles reset to the current maximum reliability for the model when they get serviced
09:54:05 <nielsm> but the rate of reaching maximum isn't affected by usage, nor is the maximum value itself
10:03:23 <andythenorth> the return of Timberwolf 🙂
10:14:55 <Timberwolf> One of those rare moments where I spot a conversation within a few minutes of it happening, rather than 6 hours and several DorpsGek messages later!
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10:30:12 <Soccerdog> is this like a link to the forums or something
10:30:24 <LordAro> i'm fascinated to know how you think that would work
10:30:55 <LordAro> well you see, the internet is a series of tubes
10:31:03 <Soccerdog> i know how the internet works
10:31:10 <Soccerdog> but what is this specifically
10:33:05 <JustANortherner> LordAro - you mean to say its not just magic?
10:34:12 <LordAro> This is a bridge between discord and IRC, because TrueBrain decided we needed some enforced socialising
10:34:32 <LordAro> does the discord channel not have an appropriate topic or whatever?
10:34:54 <LordAro> JustANortherner: I also know how the internet works, and I'm pretty confident it's mostly just magic
10:35:04 <LordAro> combined with some optimisim
10:36:15 <JustANortherner> It does say here that "This channel provides a Bridge to a relic of the past" tbf...
10:36:29 <LordAro> well that's just rude
10:36:32 <JustANortherner> But that requires reading, and why do that when you can just type!
10:36:40 <TrueBrain> LordAro: You expect people to actually read topics? :p
10:37:02 <TrueBrain> Owh, JustANortherner already said that
10:39:00 <glx[d]> LordAro: The main reason was matrix being not reliable after netsplits
10:39:34 <LordAro> yeah, but a solution to that would've been to run your own matrix server
10:40:08 <TheDumGamer> Well that’s what happens when you don’t breach the mainframe intime
10:41:26 <TrueBrain> LordAro: you liked the quietness of the channel better?
10:41:56 <TrueBrain> all this talking to people .. it is scary, I know
10:43:15 <TallTyler> I like this channel because Discord does asynchronous message archives much better, and I’m not usually awake in European Time
10:45:06 <TallTyler> I’m happy to see that @Timberwolf is still around somewhere, besides making videos about old games on YouTube 🙂
10:47:37 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Is there a reason for the sudden explosion in model train manufacturers?
10:48:11 <FLHerne> when I last did model trains it was basically Hornby or Bachmann, and Heljan did a couple of diesels
10:48:32 <FLHerne> picked up Model Rail recently and there seem to be about half-a-dozen manufacturers with significant ranges
10:48:47 <FLHerne> I guess modern scanning/CAD/3D-printing helps
10:49:47 <andythenorth> there are a number of factors
10:50:05 <glx[d]> There's one little difference when following both IRC and this channel, discord users may show another name on irc
10:50:46 <andythenorth> Accurascale are able to grow fast (I believe) because Stephen cashed out on an Irish hosting business, and has capital
10:51:07 <andythenorth> the rest have much smaller ranges and are broadly working on crowd-funding / pre-order
10:51:19 <andythenorth> Rapido UK is an offshoot of North American Rapido
10:52:32 <andythenorth> Revolution, Cavalex, KR Models, Footplate, SLW are all small ranges, lot of pre-orders
10:52:43 <andythenorth> Dapol is still around
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10:56:31 <andythenorth> Supply side is driven by availability of contract manufacturing in China, although this is under pressure for all the obvious reasons currently
10:56:48 <andythenorth> Labour, shipping, materials, covid, high demand
10:57:16 <andythenorth> Also supply side - widespread CAD, and digital sales channels
10:58:31 <andythenorth> Demand side is driven by (1) an absolute shitload of baby boomers with a lot of disposable income who can buy £50 wagons or £300 engines
10:59:13 <andythenorth> (2) people like me a bit younger who can afford this stuff due to high salaries in digital etc
10:59:32 <TallTyler> I can buy a lot of Iron Horse wagons, so I don’t need model trains anymore 😛
11:00:10 <TallTyler> I’m very well-off but only in OpenTTD currency
11:01:51 <peter1138> Oh is it food time.
11:02:01 <TallTyler> glx[d]: I imagine IRC doesn’t like my username starting with a number…wonder how TrueBrain decided to solve that 😛
11:02:42 <peter1138> Maybe it's Lego time.
11:03:00 <peter1138> I have a set here I haven't opened yet, because the sound of an unopened box is the best thing.
11:03:24 <JustANortherner> Simple fix no?
11:03:56 <TallTyler> (Assuming it’s lunch, I’m currently eating breakfast at 5 and wishing I were still asleep)
11:04:05 <Wolf01> In this case is more suitable "too"
11:04:49 <TrueBrain> TallTyler: I just remove any number at the beginning, no worries 😄
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11:05:35 <Wolf01> So... another boring afternoon begins
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11:07:16 <JustANortherner> Get yourself some excitement
11:07:19 <TallTyler> Come to Colorado and help me dump ballast 🙂
11:07:39 <TallTyler> Last time I did this we derailed the engine twice
11:07:43 <JustANortherner> Can you come to the UK and fix some points for me instead?
11:08:13 <Wolf01> What about you all come to Italy and do something interesting?
11:08:23 <TallTyler> I would love to actually
11:09:11 <LordAro> Come to the UK and write perl for me
11:09:20 <LordAro> actually no, i don't hate any of you that much
11:16:02 <Wolf01> <JustANortherner> Get yourself some excitement <- I have like 12 games to play which I delayed... I feel completely not entertained after 30 minutes of play, I force myself to continue to play some of them just to finish and uninstall
11:17:14 <peter1138> Debian is 29... such old.
11:20:18 <Wolf01> I could try to make a docker container with a webserver for debugging purposes
11:20:42 <Wolf01> Nah, bad idea, I feel already bored
11:46:23 <peter1138> 50% chance of rain at the time I would go out for a ride.
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13:51:49 <peter1138> I wish I could rebase a branch without checking out the branch first. :D
14:05:10 <Wolf01> I wish it was so easy to find company
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14:15:49 <peter1138> Sunny again, maybe I can go out on a ride before the thundering.
14:37:01 <supermop_toil> sunny here - going to shoot some portra in my F with no meter
14:37:36 <supermop_toil> well maybe over lunch. mostly just going to model door frames and headers
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17:49:56 <glx> luckily the destination is initialised with 0s
17:58:30 <frosch> isn't it just uninitialised stack?
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17:59:14 <frosch> but ok, on program start the stack is probably mostly zeroes, and it may be the deepest call up to then
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18:54:32 <Wolf01> Ahahaha doom ported to john deere tractor
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19:30:38 <peter1138> Well it rained, but not much.
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19:57:08 <peter1138> Yeah, was a nice cool ride.
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20:16:28 <andythenorth> I am about to dig in src to look, but I'm not sure what it's supposed to do 😛
20:19:14 <andythenorth> I can't see prop 0x06 handled in RailTypeChangeInfo
20:19:36 <andythenorth> oops, that's because it's 0x16 😛
20:19:56 <andythenorth> new glasses time?
20:20:48 <frosch> the minimap has some infrastructure view
20:20:53 <frosch> roads and rail get different color
20:21:24 <frosch> i would guess about 1 in 1000 players know that feature, and 1 in 100000 use it
20:22:05 <andythenorth> I have never used it
20:22:25 <frosch> that makes us two of the 100k
20:22:40 <andythenorth> ok confirmed it works
20:22:50 <andythenorth> it's odd though, because the colours aren't in the key
20:22:56 <andythenorth> might just not use that
20:25:43 <JGR> There are some rail GRFs which use it, and I found it fairly useful the least time I played with one
20:26:46 <andythenorth> ok, Horse release done
20:27:23 <frosch> it's odd, the original railtypes all use the same color, so someone must have suggested to make it configurable
20:27:36 <andythenorth> designing specs is hard 🙂
20:28:05 <frosch> i would have guessed it's just some original TTD oddity for the 3 railtypes, but no... some ottd people came up with it
20:28:44 <andythenorth> probably important for coop or something
20:29:00 <andythenorth> hmm how long is it since NRT was merged?
20:29:07 <andythenorth> I might start working on my NRT grf 😛
20:29:36 <andythenorth> it was a peterer
20:29:41 <andythenorth> very accurate commit
20:30:12 <frosch> it does not mention a FS issue, so probably some post on the forums
20:30:46 <andythenorth> hmm wonder how broken my Road Hog makefile is
20:31:05 <frosch> andythenorth: you miscounted, jgr belongs to the 1, not to the 100k
20:31:25 <frosch> i guessed 1:100000, and we measured 1:2
20:31:42 <andythenorth> 'within statistical error bounds'
20:31:48 <andythenorth> just don't say which bounds
20:32:03 * andythenorth might play OpenTTD
20:32:11 <frosch> "quality checked" (with unspecified results)
20:32:26 <JGR> Players on multiplayer servers with infrastructure sharing seem to love using a ridiculous number of track types
20:32:59 <andythenorth> we never did do GroundTypes 😛
20:33:13 <frosch> ah, because they share tracks by default, they use incompatible railtypes to opt-out of sharing :p
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20:34:01 <JGR> I think it's more a model trains roleplaying thing
20:34:51 <frosch> there are probably more types of players than there are players :p
20:35:31 <frosch> earlier today i saw some segments from a ottd stream from someone claiming to have played the game since 90s, yet they did not know signalling or shared orders
20:36:12 <andythenorth> was it one of the Yogscast crew?
20:36:51 <frosch> no, it was some nerd who wrote their own tiling window manager
20:37:13 <frosch> which makes the "signalling" thing even more odd. i would expect a programmer to be into signalling
20:37:35 <andythenorth> I was supposed to meet Lewis from Yogscast about a year ago
20:37:42 <andythenorth> but we had diary failure
20:38:31 <andythenorth> nothing so glamorous
20:38:47 <frosch> hmm, you knew some ex-employee of them, right?
20:39:10 <frosch> is yogscast still hip with the kids today?
20:39:27 <andythenorth> my kids don't watch it, but they're a bit young for it
20:39:36 <andythenorth> yogscast office is 100m from my office
20:39:53 <frosch> my 11 yo nephew watches a lot of minecraft yt, both english and german, but no yc
20:39:53 <andythenorth> but I never go to my office 😛
20:40:10 <andythenorth> YC quite swearing-and-drinking
20:40:39 <frosch> really? i had the impression they focussed on a child audience
20:40:48 <frosch> like most minecraft channels
20:40:55 <andythenorth> maybe they have child friendly
20:40:59 <frosch> maybe they do no longer do minecraft...
20:41:03 <andythenorth> Jingle Jam stream is drinking and swearing
20:42:54 <LordAro> they were always "teenager/young adult" afaik
20:44:55 <EmperorJake> I used to watch a lot of yogscast a few years ago and I'm not that young lol
20:45:48 <LordAro> yogscast was my "introduction" to youtube, effectively
20:45:59 <LordAro> shadow of israphael 4 lyfe
20:46:10 <LordAro> well, that and red vs blue
20:49:34 <andythenorth> unrelated: my text editor is using 20 GB of RAM
20:49:43 <andythenorth> I have 16 GB actual RAM
20:50:00 <andythenorth> it does not usually do this 😛
20:53:41 <JGR> andythenorth: The recolour callback is called before the object is placed on the map, so there are no random bits yet...
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20:56:57 <frosch> looks like the same problem was added for objects 🙂
21:01:29 <andythenorth> thanks, posted that to forums
21:02:30 <frosch> haha, such a non-answer 🙂
21:02:43 <frosch> someone needs to make a PR
21:03:40 <andythenorth> jfs-: re: George's request, what if there was a discount on auto-replacing (to same ID), defined by the vehicle in grf? 😛
21:04:08 <andythenorth> the idea of 'overhaul' by using a livery refit is...oof
21:04:28 <peter1138> Good at bad features
21:05:33 <peter1138> Bad at good features :(
21:09:49 <nielsm> andythenorth: does the vehicle know how long it has been since it was built? you may as well just give it a month of extra large running costs then to represent a major maintenance
21:10:28 <nielsm> or maybe better, how far it has moved total during its lifetime
21:11:15 <frosch> vehicle knows its age in days
21:11:22 <frosch> it does not know travel distance
21:11:23 <andythenorth> petern: group liveries 😛 actual GOOD
21:11:39 <andythenorth> 'vehicle persistent storage' anyone? 😛
21:12:23 <andythenorth> we'd need extra stuff though, like lubricating oil quality, amount of time spent idling etc
21:12:31 <andythenorth> quality of metal in bolts
21:12:50 <andythenorth> maintenance staff effectiveness
21:13:07 <andythenorth> no moon in OpenTTD
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21:59:23 <bkilm[m]> Consider increased accident rates in the summer and fuel consumption when running air conditioning.
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continue to next day ⏵
