IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-06-26
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08:40:00 <TrueBrain> We should make an OpenTTD Mobile game, with P2W elements; I read that is the way to go these days
08:40:31 <TrueBrain> can I make TrueGRF Pay-to-Win?
08:43:01 <michi_cc> Be innovative and make it Pay-to-Loose :p
08:43:16 <TrueBrain> the more you pay, the more likely you lose your work?
08:53:43 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: isn't that called a casino?
08:57:02 <andythenorth> just charge for support
08:57:34 <Eddi|zuHause> no, that's just "pay"
08:58:37 <andythenorth> depends on the support
08:59:16 <Eddi|zuHause> but you're still losing a fixed amount
09:01:33 <andythenorth> we need to do better
09:02:31 <Eddi|zuHause> the important part about p2w is you need some addictive element, so the player is encouraged to spend more as soon as he crossed the barrier of spending anything at all
09:02:53 <TrueBrain> so 0.10 cent for a train in your first buy
09:02:55 <TrueBrain> and slowly increase it
09:03:00 <TrueBrain> gotcha .. building this mobile game now :P
09:03:14 <Eddi|zuHause> train whack mobile.
09:12:45 <andythenorth> pay to improve odds
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10:03:37 <TrueBrain> I am toying a bit with TrueWiki .. and it is amazing how little I can remember of wikitexthtml .. like magic to me .. but I am 99% sure I wrote it :P
10:03:53 <TrueBrain> there are a shitton of comments explaining stuff, so I have no actual problems following it
10:03:57 <TrueBrain> I just cannot remember I wrote it :P
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10:25:40 * TrueBrain high fives dwfreed :)
10:28:48 <TrueBrain> I am fuzzing TrueWiki .. and it is funny that so far all the bugs it found are related to "lists" :P
10:29:05 <TrueBrain> turns out parsing lists in mediawiki is really really difficult to get right :P
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13:55:19 <Samu> i wish i could sometimes sort by highest value in AIPriorityQueue
13:56:42 <Samu> im creating a list of possible station locations and i give them a score for priority
13:56:54 <Samu> the higher the value, the better
13:57:13 <Samu> does priority queue work with negative values?
13:57:24 <peter1138> Isn't that what a priority queue does?
13:57:59 <Samu> no, it ranks from 0 to highest
13:58:06 <Samu> i want the opposite order
13:59:37 <peter1138> If only there was some function that could invert your value...
14:00:57 <Samu> but i can't put an instance for item
14:03:34 <peter1138> The priority value is a signed 64 bit integer.
14:03:40 <peter1138> That suggests using a negative value is no problem.
14:03:45 <peter1138> So what's the problem>
14:06:40 <glx> indeed Peek() and Pop() get the lowest priority, so negative should work
14:17:18 <Samu> how to put a queue into another queue
14:17:55 <Samu> guess i need to do this in another manner
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16:16:42 <Samu> there's a GetRoadStationFrontTile, but i don't think it works for drive through
16:26:50 <Samu> IsRoadStationTile requires IsRoadTypeAvailable(GetCurrentRoadType()) to be true, but I wanted to check if it has any road station, regardless of type, how do i do this
16:27:32 <Samu> i want to find a location where I can build a train station, and avoid blocking road station exits
16:27:40 <Samu> so i don't care for which road type
16:30:52 <Samu> I need to retrieve the road type of the road, but that assumes the tile is road
16:31:30 <Samu> hmm, i think i got an idea
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16:37:11 <Samu> it can be tram or road, this is more complex than i expected
17:21:27 <Samu> HasRoadType seems bugged, or so i think
17:22:23 <Samu> who's a roadtram expert? can a road be electrified and the tram not be electrified in the same tile?
17:22:53 <Samu> or if one is electrified, the other also is?
17:41:33 <Samu> or maybe line 97, instead of RoadType, should be RoadTramType
17:44:03 <Samu> let me retest, maybe im doing this wrong
17:48:01 <Samu> i need another newgrf with multiple road types and tram types
17:58:58 <Samu> i'll test again after dinner, this is quite confusing
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18:44:18 <TrueBrain> priority bugs I see ... :P
18:51:31 <andythenorth> TrueBrain 9933, the problem seems to be with FIRS 4?
18:52:18 <TrueBrain> didnt even open the ticket :P
18:57:59 <Samu> then again road and tram is very confusing
18:58:19 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: lc? :P
19:00:50 <Samu> it should be named... HasRoadTramType? perhaps
19:07:18 <Samu> it checks if the tile has the same RoadTramType as that of the RoadType provided
19:07:32 <andythenorth> TrueBrain ban FIRS :P
19:07:40 <TrueBrain> in the balance of things ...
19:07:43 <andythenorth> reduce bug counts
19:07:47 <TrueBrain> so if I have to choose ..
19:08:20 <andythenorth> I will talk less
19:08:29 <andythenorth> hmm but then the community
19:08:44 <andythenorth> on balance banning FIRS will cause more words than not banning it]
19:08:57 <andythenorth> oh could we charge for words?
19:09:02 <andythenorth> that could be the pay2w
19:09:31 <andythenorth> and we have a logarithmic scale, charge-per-word increasing per word
19:09:48 <andythenorth> 1 word: 0.1 eurocents
19:10:36 <andythenorth> 100 words, 13 euros
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19:15:40 <TrueBrain> you failed in the "I will talk less", sorry :P
19:28:51 <andythenorth> "I will talk less than lc" :P
19:29:13 <andythenorth> so anyway we can charge per word, maybe using crypto?
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20:01:40 <Samu> how many AIs will that break?
20:02:58 <glx> could it be the API didn't get an upgrade with NRT merge ?
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20:06:12 <Samu> what should be the intended usage of that function
20:06:50 <Samu> what was it like, before NRT?
20:11:20 <glx> but IIRC this function is just to check if a tile has road or tram (but not sure it supports newgrf types)
20:17:00 <Samu> i used RattRoads 1.0.2 and eGRVTS v2.1 -r235
20:17:25 <Samu> it has 6 roadtypes and 2 tramtypes
20:18:10 <andythenorth> Hvgq-2kU7rcv-2aGPMb5-2bugdC4-2m2zebf-2gbXgbf-2kTcg5i-WE1vyj
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20:30:28 <glx> yeah some functions were added to list roadtypes (and tramtypes) with NRT, but the API might be not fully compatible
20:30:59 <Samu> left side is "master", kinda
20:31:08 <Samu> right side is with the fix
20:31:40 <Samu> let me also test without any newgrf
20:37:49 <Samu> how many AIs support NRT?
20:40:21 <Samu> AAAHogEx, CivilAI, NotPerfectAI and RailwAI have used at least AIRoadTypeList
20:41:42 <Samu> wow, a lot of AIs use HasRoadType
20:42:10 <Samu> well, kind of expected, it already existed before NRT
20:42:40 <glx> HasRoadType partially works I think
20:43:40 <glx> it detects road/tram presence, but not the exact type
20:43:52 <glx> as shown in your screenshot
20:47:06 <Samu> how many roadtypes existed before NRT?
20:49:39 <Samu> it's probably not gonna break AIs older than NRT
20:49:49 <Samu> but the new ones may break
20:50:12 <Samu> depends on how they're using it
20:53:15 <glx> road API seems to only know 2 types (the original ones)
20:55:51 <Samu> it can get a list of them now
20:56:32 <glx> yes that was added with NRT, but AIRoad itself was not updated to use it I think
20:58:07 <Samu> it is assuming RoadType 0 to be a RoadTramType of Road, and RoadType 1 to be RoadTramType of Tram
20:58:15 <Samu> is that really enforced in OpenTTD?
21:02:08 <glx> there are 2 default labels, ROAD and ELRD which should correspond to original road and tram
21:03:18 <glx> ah no that's for roadtypes, tramtypes have RAIL et ELRL
21:10:17 <Samu> for stations, it already does that
21:11:17 <glx> still assuming only 2 types I think, but maybe compatible with more
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