IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-05-28
⏴ go to previous day
01:10:55 *** Wormnest has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
01:20:05 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
02:15:16 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
02:37:45 *** debdog has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
03:00:30 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog
03:18:34 <wallabra> What is the shortcut or menu button to close all windows?
04:45:47 *** uhren has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
05:50:46 <wallabra> Any transport link I should leave as close to saturated as possible, but if in doubt, should I leave it in oversaturated or undersaturated?
05:51:02 <wallabra> Like, click world map, "Show cargo flow as map".
06:03:24 <LordAro> wallabra: the delete key (in answer to your first question)
06:32:24 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
07:20:22 <andythenorth> but I'm not sure if the behaviour I've described is accurate
07:21:22 <andythenorth> used lol @ again, this isn't discord :P
07:21:35 <wallabra> Though having to go all the way around to get serviced at the depot isn't great.
07:26:32 <nielsm> "GameScript can optionally set a property that to indicate that this industry should not close at this industry."
07:26:39 <nielsm> "this industry ... at this industry."
07:27:20 <andythenorth> tried to reword it too many times :)
07:27:20 <nielsm> but it seems fine othereise
07:30:53 <andythenorth> closure seems slightly odd, GS can disallow it even if grf tries to request it
07:32:01 <nielsm> the thing I tried/wanted to do was letting GS "freeze" an industry so it won't disappear from the map until some condition
07:33:03 <nielsm> (tbh mainly I was annoyed that I made a map and carefully placed vanilla industries, and then after 10-20 years in game all the carefully placed industries were gone and replaced, before the player had a chance to interact with a tenth of them)
07:39:00 <andythenorth> I only noticed because the prod increase / decrease delegates ultimately to newgrf, whereas closure delegates ultimately to GS
07:39:26 <andythenorth> just 12.0 and 13.0 to do :P
08:01:47 <andythenorth> -128 to 127..996?
08:04:16 <nielsm> I'm not really sure how fixed point interacts with signed numbers, tbh
08:04:44 <andythenorth> michi_cc tested it in the PR and said it works :)
08:04:58 <andythenorth> I assume nml just accepts -128 to 127 but eh
08:04:59 <nielsm> whether the most negative number is FF.FF or FF.00
08:06:11 <nielsm> FF.FF has to be the smallest number less than zero
08:06:39 <nielsm> so 80.00 has to be -128 yes
08:07:56 <nielsm> and 80.FF is -127.004m and 81.00 is -127
08:08:16 <nielsm> so yes -128.000 to +127.996
08:22:11 <andythenorth> I'm going to ignore the float :P
08:23:22 <nielsm> allowing fractions is important as far as I can tell, since it's a multiplier
08:24:12 <andythenorth> ok, I'm looking if there's any precedent
08:25:56 <andythenorth> I've changed it 127.996
08:26:19 <andythenorth> just 2 things left and spec is up to date :P
08:26:36 <andythenorth> then maybe a group livery feature can be allowed :P
08:51:15 <wallabra> What if the audio was stereo, and attenuated as the distance to viewport changed?
08:51:23 <wallabra> Inb4 we add Doppler effect of ingame sounds lol
08:51:49 <andythenorth> I thought the audio was stereo?
08:51:58 <wallabra> I don't mean in the backend
08:52:06 <wallabra> I mean like, events happening to the right of the viewport playing on the right channel.
08:52:13 <wallabra> And vice-versa for the left channel.
08:52:58 <andythenorth> my laptop speakers are quite powerful :P
08:53:08 <andythenorth> I can feel the ship sound under my left or right hand :P
08:55:30 <wallabra> I remember it didn't last time I tried, then again I haven't had stereo audio for a while already.
08:55:38 <wallabra> I'm about to buy a new headset I think so hopefully that'll change soon.
08:56:44 <andythenorth> ^ can someone merge?
08:56:57 <andythenorth> FLHerne maybe? :)
09:03:20 <andythenorth> then I can finish the docs
09:17:33 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
09:19:43 <andythenorth> oh GitHub has a cool 'onion skin' slider for diffs on graphics files
09:21:11 <andythenorth> seems someone already added the network sprites to OpenGFX
09:21:13 *** uhren has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
09:24:28 <andythenorth> map seed is 0 .. 65535 ?
09:24:32 <andythenorth> as return value?
09:25:17 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
09:27:18 <andythenorth> seems to be uint32, which I thought was 4,294,967,295
09:27:34 <andythenorth> but other similar vars are given as 0 .. 65535 for range
09:28:36 <andythenorth> static const uint32 GENERATE_NEW_SEED = UINT32_MAX; ///< Create a new random seed
09:33:19 <peter1138> Well I didn't cycle yet :/
09:35:21 <andythenorth> nor did I stretch, dead hang or practice standing on 1 leg
09:35:29 <andythenorth> I did have 2 coffees
09:37:07 *** Timberwolf has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
09:37:33 <andythenorth> so map seed size for nml? :P
09:42:09 <andythenorth> I think it's 0xFFFFFFFF
09:42:32 <andythenorth> interestingly nml docs give most return values as decimal, but sometimes hex
09:43:59 <andythenorth> hmm or is that -1 due to signed?
09:44:37 * andythenorth so dependent on google
09:44:46 <andythenorth> uint32 so that's 4294967295
09:52:43 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
09:55:42 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
10:01:02 <frosch123> [Sunday, October 31, 2021] [1:59:27 PM CET] <TrueBrain> let me know how that went frosch123 <- i got access yesterday
10:01:12 <frosch123> let's see how long it takes him to add context :)
10:02:22 <TrueBrain> so they finally proceeded with the rollout
10:02:31 <TrueBrain> just when I am switching away from it and starting to use gitpod
10:03:53 <frosch123> ah, you made space for me?
10:04:11 <TrueBrain> I wonder what the eventual price will be on GitHub
10:04:27 <TrueBrain> if they will have some free tier for public repos or what-ever ..
10:04:39 <TrueBrain> I tried to compile OpenTTD on it ... it is slow :P
10:04:46 <TrueBrain> on Gitpod it took 4 minutes to compile OpenTTD, which is kinda okay
10:04:58 <TrueBrain> next step would be to be able to debug the game in the browser .. so you can truly develop OpenTTD on-the-go :P
10:05:52 <TrueBrain> Gitpod just uses EPYC CPUs on shared host
10:06:08 <TrueBrain> where GitHub uses dedicated VMs
10:06:09 <TrueBrain> pros and cons to both :)
10:06:54 <frosch123> but do they keep objects/ccache, or rebuild everything eveytime?
10:08:23 <TrueBrain> Your storage is persistent
10:08:50 <TrueBrain> Just for OpenTTD it isn't all that helpful, as small changes often recompile tons of files :p
10:09:09 <frosch123> different subject: did you already have your laught at the guy who wants to buy ottd dist ltd?
10:09:28 <TrueBrain> Did not check mail yet, going to do that after lunch :D
10:09:54 <frosch123> they were in scotland last week and asked whether we could meet up
10:18:11 <frosch123> oh, no, they will be next week. so you can still have a coffee with them
10:18:23 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
10:23:49 <andythenorth> do we have any Scottish contribs? :P
10:44:23 <TrueBrain> frosch123: that is just weird
10:44:59 <TrueBrain> some of the other mails ..
10:45:05 <frosch123> the mails from 15th and 16th are fun
10:45:34 <TrueBrain> I was reading the one from the 13th .. "YOU WON!" ... but before you actually won anything ... put our name on your website k?
10:45:37 <TrueBrain> that is not winning
10:45:41 <frosch123> what did you send to the UN btw?
10:46:22 <frosch123> ah, we get many like the 13th
10:46:43 <TrueBrain> haha, that email address ... diplomat<namehere>@blabla.com .. that is just brilliant :)
10:46:54 <frosch123> "hey, can you link our website from yours, you may call it an award"
10:47:25 <TrueBrain> I always wonder if that actually works
10:48:02 <TrueBrain> what a weird emails ..
10:48:04 <frosch123> anyway, that company that wants to buy ottd is legit
10:48:18 <frosch123> the guy mailing does not seem to work for them though, but maybe a subcontractor
10:48:31 <TrueBrain> well, guess this is finally our moment
10:48:39 <TrueBrain> what do we aim for?
10:48:49 <frosch123> we need to tweet about it
10:49:22 <TrueBrain> don't think they will go for that
10:49:24 <TrueBrain> but sure, let's try
10:52:52 <TrueBrain> for a while email was pretty normal
10:53:00 <TrueBrain> but it seems this month it just exploded in complete weirdness
10:53:42 <frosch123> i like the monthly geeogle mails about how many people asked for directions to ottd corp hq
10:57:25 <frosch123> in april: 0 calls, 41 people asked for directions(+10%), 0 website visits from profile, 26 profile views (+52%)
10:58:25 <TrueBrain> all those people aimlessly trying to find OpenTTD's HQ
11:01:57 *** lobster has joined #openttd
11:02:35 <andythenorth> so did I do the nml docs correctly for map_seed?
11:03:01 <TrueBrain> ugh, I should finish TrueGRF beta1 .. but I don't want to!! :(
11:03:04 *** lobstarooo has joined #openttd
11:03:11 <andythenorth> I am avoiding drawing small pixelated cars
11:03:12 <frosch123> looked good at first glance. though i was disapointed about the lack of drama
11:03:25 <andythenorth> you wanted a vandalism revert?
11:03:32 <frosch123> 67% of newgrf creators found this edit useful
11:03:52 <andythenorth> newgrf spec is allegedly now all up to date
11:04:18 <frosch123> oh, so if we implement a code freeze, it stays like that forever?
11:04:37 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: stop giving frosch123 ideas
11:04:47 <andythenorth> it might be factually inaccurate
11:05:04 <andythenorth> just render both wikis to flat html :P
11:05:10 <andythenorth> that's like a freeze?
11:05:16 <frosch123> s/might/is/ <- pretty sure about that
11:09:29 <frosch123> botu factually correctness: i think newgrf wiki is on-par with help pages of corporate software
11:09:59 *** lobster has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
11:10:05 *** lobstarooo is now known as lobster
11:10:46 <TrueBrain> Cloudflare wrote a nice article recently about the importance of developer documentation
11:10:48 <TrueBrain> might be worth reading :P
11:11:03 <TrueBrain> they consider documentation a product of its own :)
11:11:40 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
11:12:39 <andythenorth> the reason FIRS is so much in python was so I could generate docs from it :P
11:14:57 <andythenorth> ok so nml has lots of outstanding issues
11:15:04 <andythenorth> maybe some of those next :P
11:15:14 <andythenorth> today seems to be paying taxes day
11:19:32 <andythenorth> and mark the old ones as deprecated somehow?
11:20:39 <frosch123> explains why i did not want to do it :)
11:21:18 <frosch123> maybe copilot can do it
11:28:25 <andythenorth> am I copilot in this case? :P
11:31:56 <frosch123> what is the chocolate-to-code conversion rate of your kids?
11:32:53 <andythenorth> infinitely tending towards zero
11:33:08 <andythenorth> shall I put the legacy sounds in a separate block?
11:33:18 <andythenorth> otherwise it will be lots of ugly python comments
11:37:05 <andythenorth> SND_1F_SPLAT_OTHER
11:38:01 <andythenorth> there are multiple splats :P
11:58:59 <frosch123> there is no usecase for a newgrf to ever use SOUND_UNUSED
12:00:40 <glx> SOUND_CONSTRUCTION_WAER <-- something is missing
12:00:54 <TrueBrain> an extension to the english dictionary you mean?
12:14:51 <glx> oh commit message should probably be something like Fix #190: ...
12:15:53 <glx> or at least adds "closes #190" in the description
12:29:11 <andythenorth> so it's mapping the old constant to the new constant?
12:29:22 <andythenorth> and then it auto prints a deprecation warning?
12:30:02 <glx> but the mapping has to be a string :)
12:31:13 *** lobster has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:41:18 <andythenorth> ok think that's done
12:43:36 <glx> you remove a comma line 234
12:45:34 <andythenorth> ok now the examples trigger the deprecation warnings :)
12:45:37 <andythenorth> which is good, but noisy
12:47:40 <glx> yeah noisy, but it tests the deprecation mechanism :)
12:49:48 <andythenorth> might be I can reduce some
13:07:02 <wallabra> Is the Lenin statue from the ECS Vectors?
13:24:15 *** Timberwolf has joined #openttd
13:41:56 <andythenorth> hmm there's no 'null' result for spritelayers?
14:42:27 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
15:04:38 <FLHerne> wallabra: Is it an industry that accepts Tourists? If so yes
15:05:07 <FLHerne> I remember it having castles and things but not that specifically
15:05:14 <wallabra> I.. don't think so? At least it's not an industry. It's a city tile like any other (then again so is the thing that accepts Building materials).
15:41:57 <glx> castles and their impossible landscape requirements
16:27:20 * andythenorth spent 5 hours saving 2s per compile :P
16:27:35 <andythenorth> but also 10% of the grf size
16:33:28 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
16:43:34 <peter1138> 1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXJ9SDK1Kp4 < familiar music at 1m30
16:49:18 <_dp_> and familiar issue at 2m18 xd
16:53:29 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
16:53:29 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
16:59:15 <andythenorth> ok 4MB now saved
16:59:25 <andythenorth> think of the AWS bill :P
17:00:14 *** tokai has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
17:05:50 * andythenorth wonders if it's time to switch to TrueGRF yet
17:06:09 <andythenorth> I can't keep Iron Horse compile below 30 seconds with nmlc
17:15:06 <andythenorth> if we could shard grfs I could split it up :P
17:25:41 <TrueBrain> presets you say? :P
17:25:55 <Samu> my "Company Value GS" script is expensive now
17:26:06 <Samu> something changed regarding computing company value?
17:26:52 <andythenorth> presets that act like packages
17:27:45 <andythenorth> think of the compile time saving :P
17:27:48 <andythenorth> think of the children
17:35:00 <Samu> excluding shares thingy, that's kinda expensive if there's 15 companies and my script do it for each company
17:37:11 <Samu> so even if shares_owned is 0 which is the case for AIs, it's still gonna compute the company values, only to multiply by 0 at the end :(
17:37:25 <Samu> what a waste of cpu cycles
17:42:56 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: think of the lack of free time! :P
17:44:49 <_dp_> andythenorth, switch to grf-py :p
17:44:55 <_dp_> no idea how fast it is though
17:45:14 <_dp_> faster than nml I guess since it's python anyway but saves some steps
17:45:24 <andythenorth> I wonder how easy it would be to port :P
17:45:39 <_dp_> probably not that hard since you already have a lot in python
17:45:49 <_dp_> just replace nml stuff with grf-py classes
17:46:13 <andythenorth> hmm multi-renderer :P
17:46:27 <andythenorth> render to nml, or to grf-py
17:46:50 <_dp_> grf-py can probably be made to output nml
17:46:54 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
17:54:54 <Samu> there is a bug with this commit
17:55:15 <Samu> "including_loan" is completely discarded
17:57:00 <Samu> dinner time, i'll return to make a PR fixing it
17:59:33 <frosch123> is there a xkcd about the ratio (number of grf authors)/(number of grf tools) over time?
18:03:16 <andythenorth> we do have quite a lot now :P
18:23:40 *** lobster has joined #openttd
18:24:46 *** lobstarooo has joined #openttd
18:31:44 *** lobster has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
18:31:47 *** lobstarooo is now known as lobster
18:32:31 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Quit: A toaster's basically a soldering iron designed to toast bread)
18:47:12 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
19:11:04 *** andythenorth has quit IRC (Quit: andythenorth)
19:11:30 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
19:14:03 <Samu> who's a money expert? company 1 has 25% shares of company 2. company 2 bankrupts and buys company 1. does it also buy the shares? it drops the shares? this seems bugged
19:14:40 <Samu> company 2 bankrupts and company 1 buys 2
19:16:59 <nielsm> you mean like what that ticket talks about?
19:19:22 <Rubidium> that ticket is about a situation with 3+ companies
19:22:41 <Samu> bankrupt company value is now including shares and loan
19:23:08 <Samu> need to test this further
19:26:42 <Rubidium> seems like with bankruptcy all the company that is bankrupt but taken over are sold first, and then the value for which it was offered is subtracted from your balance. So, that seems "fine"
19:29:43 <Rubidium> and yes, you might be screwed a bit with share values when things are the other way around... but I think you can't make it work "right" easily, as if company 1 owns 75% of company 2 and company 2 owns 75% of company 1... what is the actual value?
21:33:39 *** nielsm has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
21:55:36 <Samu> how to properly compute company value for a 100% share buyout versus for a bankrupty buyout
21:56:19 <Samu> loan and shares are complicated
21:59:56 <glx> but it's only triggered on bankrupt
22:00:23 *** Samu has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
22:00:25 <glx> (including_loan defaults to true
22:05:12 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC ()
22:06:19 <glx> as for all other it's assumed true
22:16:31 <_dp_> glx, what's weird, isn't it doing exactly that?
22:17:56 <glx> it's removing loan from value
22:18:12 <_dp_> loan is basically negative value
22:20:29 <glx> yeah I didn't look at the details, it was just an impression :)
22:21:25 <glx> anyway loan is always included even if explicitely asked not to
22:24:15 <_dp_> I wonder if shares should be checked at all for bankruptcy
22:31:06 <_dp_> also #9770 doesn't seem to work as intended in #9765
22:31:26 <_dp_> because buying and selling shares base on CV with shares
22:31:36 <_dp_> but CV is based on CV of others without shares
22:32:56 <_dp_> so change in CV doesn't match the amount spent/gained
22:33:28 *** andythenorth has quit IRC (Quit: andythenorth)
22:52:03 *** frosch123 has quit IRC (Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn)
continue to next day ⏵
