IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2021-12-27
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03:54:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] corpulentcoffee opened pull request #9771: Feature: Add/extend console commands to enable screenshot automation https://git.io/JyW75
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04:02:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] corpulentcoffee updated pull request #9771: Feature: Add/extend console commands to enable screenshot automation https://git.io/JyW75
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14:07:53 <andythenorth> 49 cargos so far
14:09:03 <andythenorth> think I'm going to run out
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14:55:47 <blathijs> Anyone else here that redistributes packages for OpenGFX/SFX/MSX? I'm updating the Debian packages and am running into some issues with the build system and how `make install` works. I'm looking at unifying these three projects and making it work in a way that is convenient for the Debian packages, but do not want to cause extra work for others... See
14:57:02 <LordAro> blathijs: the trouble is that they all use a (modified?) version of the generic newgrf makefile (despite not being newgrfs) that no one except planetmaker understands
14:57:52 <blathijs> All three are different, so part of the problem is in the modifications made I guess :-)
14:59:04 <LordAro> 1 & 2 seem like bugs, the rest are artefacts of the build system
15:02:09 <Rubidium> to bad heffer is gone; that way the other one I notified upon releases back in the day
15:15:18 <peter1138> andythenorth, 2^32 cargo types when?
15:22:45 <andythenorth> cargo types per region?
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15:52:09 <dP> hm, apparently just an empty 4k water map already has 10ms+ world ticks
15:55:24 <dP> TileLoop_Water is very slow for a function that mostly does nothing
16:03:22 <peter1138> And the smallest size, 64x64 is 4K... damn.
16:12:27 <LordAro> peter1138: so you're saying a 64x64 map is equivalent to a 1x4096 map?
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16:56:50 <supermop_Home> Is there any roadstop support in nml? or do I just replace base set sprites?
17:12:17 <supermop_Home> so I guess I should write it as a base sprite replacement for now
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18:57:25 <peter1138> How old is a P7450 Core 2 Duo?
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19:37:52 <TrueBrain> brrr, scary, the NewGRF spec is now in my top 10 visited websites ..
19:40:36 <TrueBrain> wait, no, I need to validate this
20:10:43 <dwfreed> ribbon world is a common factorio play mode
20:11:15 <dwfreed> there is also a maze mod; dead ends have biter bases
20:11:17 <andythenorth> ok so we're not doing 256 cargos this christmas?
20:11:25 * andythenorth has run out of cargos again
20:11:56 <LordAro> dwfreed: 64x4096 is our equivalent to ribbon world
20:13:12 <LordAro> suppose it could be even thinner
20:13:47 <dwfreed> you could totally do 2x4096 if building in 3 dimensions was like RCT
20:20:42 <andythenorth> ok there are about 16 important commodity chemicals
20:20:52 <andythenorth> and then another 16 or so speciality chemicals
20:21:14 <andythenorth> there are about 8 important feedstocks
20:21:30 <andythenorth> there are about 8 interesting end products
20:21:56 <andythenorth> pax, mail, food, ensp and fmsp take 5
20:22:03 <andythenorth> that's 53 cargos
20:22:13 <andythenorth> then there's coal, ore, metals
20:22:22 <andythenorth> and some kind of consumer goods
20:22:26 <andythenorth> and then cheese and stuff
20:23:06 <dwfreed> at least increase it to 128
20:24:27 <andythenorth> I think factorio only has 44 cargos
20:24:32 <andythenorth> according to wiki
20:31:27 <dwfreed> remember you can transport anything you can build in factorio
20:33:56 * andythenorth wonders what interesting way frosch will find to say no to > 64 cargos
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20:42:29 <frosch123> 64 cargos is a pretty hard limit
20:42:48 <frosch123> increasing that breaks string processing, gs api, and probably more
20:44:53 <frosch123> it also breaks the gui probably :p
20:45:59 <frosch123> 64-item dropdowns are on the weird end, when you start using searchable comboboxes
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20:51:36 <TrueBrain> That started with 64? I would say that starts at 16 already :p
20:51:58 <TrueBrain> Especially the station window thingy with all the cargoes makes me laugh
20:52:07 <TrueBrain> Like who is actually going to use that?
20:52:38 <frosch123> i like the refit list: vehicles is refittable to "everything but <list of 29 cargos>"
20:54:26 <frosch123> someone implemented it so it chooses "refittable to <list>" or "refittable to all but <list>" depending on which list is shorter :p
20:56:16 <TrueBrain> Having well defined cargo classes would be more helpful :p
20:57:06 <frosch123> would renaming "express" to "packaged consumer good" help you?
20:57:44 <TrueBrain> Was more thinking about enforcing a cargo can be only one
20:57:47 <TrueBrain> Listing them in refittable
20:57:53 <TrueBrain> Force wagons to use them
20:58:11 <TrueBrain> Will not result in angry post or anything
20:58:57 <frosch123> haha, unfortunately there are always exceptions :)
20:59:28 <frosch123> livestock, lumber and cars do not fit into any class
20:59:43 <TrueBrain> Lack of imagination
20:59:49 <frosch123> "bulk", "liquid" and "packaged consumer goods" work well
20:59:58 <frosch123> "piece goods" is just an unsolvable mess
21:00:19 <TrueBrain> Burn it and start over? :)
21:00:59 <frosch123> i don't think there is a better solution :)
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21:09:29 <andythenorth> oh did I summon frosch123 :P
21:10:36 <andythenorth> TrueBrain composite classes :P
21:10:46 <andythenorth> PIECE_HAZARDOUS_LIQUID_ON_FIRE
21:16:19 <andythenorth> frosch123 ok so you're saying I have to consolidate to only important cargos? :P
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21:17:11 <andythenorth> it's not essential to transport methane, methanol, ethane, ethylene, benzene, butadiene, propene, polypropene and so on?
21:17:21 <andythenorth> all these colourless liquids or gases :P
21:19:02 <frosch123> i think organic chemicals can be grouped
21:20:09 <andythenorth> I have researched them a few times and I can't keep track of which one is which :P
21:20:19 <andythenorth> also, depending on era, and local conditions
21:20:31 <andythenorth> sometimes its A -> process -> B
21:20:42 <andythenorth> and sometimes it's B -> process -> A which is very confusing
21:20:51 <andythenorth> doesn't Eddi|zuHause do something with chemicals?
21:21:19 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on what "something" is
21:21:39 <frosch123> "alkane" seems to group "methane, ethane, propene, .."
21:22:07 <andythenorth> frosch123 for practical purposes, 'polymers' seem to be the output
21:22:12 <andythenorth> I just include more pipes in the industry
21:23:01 <andythenorth> sometimes I find an interesting vehicle for a specific cargo, so I want to include them
21:23:25 <glx> at the end of the chain you have carbon and hydrogen
21:23:41 <andythenorth> used in cleaning agents
21:23:47 <frosch123> so you could have alkane, alkene, alkyne, and players would already rage :p
21:24:26 <frosch123> chaper 3 does not look too bad
21:24:33 <frosch123> so you could add 15 cargos matching 3.1 to 3.15
21:28:13 <frosch123> my brother-in-law worked in a place using hyrofluoric acid and stuff. they had a policy "there is a big party in every year without some kind of accident" :/
21:28:31 <andythenorth> how many parties?
21:29:02 <TrueBrain> Do the party on Jan 1st and you are fine
21:29:21 <TrueBrain> By that policy, there will be no accidents
21:29:29 <andythenorth> developer optimisation in action
21:29:31 <frosch123> iirc they averaged to one accident per 3 years, so there were more years with party than years without
21:32:52 <frosch123> anyway, it was meant to inspire people to stick to safety rules, not to express luck :p
21:35:09 <TrueBrain> What are we without any luck
21:47:31 <andythenorth> 'integrated chemical plant' could solve everything
21:47:44 <andythenorth> except that FIRS doesn't like more than 4 input cargos
21:50:46 <andythenorth> it will do 8, but if they're combinatorial the fractions get evil
21:51:07 <andythenorth> delivering just 1 cargo if 8 are needed combinatorially
21:51:20 <andythenorth> 1t out for 8 in, quite unpleasant
22:18:03 * andythenorth researching tioxide
22:19:16 <frosch123> that's a brand name
22:19:26 <frosch123> titan-dioxide is used for everything white
22:20:00 <frosch123> it's also used in food
22:20:21 <frosch123> and indoors paint for walls
22:20:26 <andythenorth> food additives are one of the specialist chemicals cargos
22:20:38 <andythenorth> food additives, paints and coatings, cleaning agents
22:20:46 <andythenorth> maybe glues and resins
22:21:20 <frosch123> do you want one industry per chemical process?
22:21:46 <andythenorth> the current cargoflow is quite confused
22:21:50 <frosch123> maybe you could score "ottd used in chemistry class" milestone :p
22:22:05 <andythenorth> did you watch the video about sim chemical plant?
22:22:42 <frosch123> oh, so old, yet i never heard of it
22:25:47 <andythenorth> 1 level per compound?
22:25:58 <andythenorth> molecule / compound /s
22:26:09 <frosch123> wow, a chemical company hired a game studio to create a game for their staff...
22:26:49 <frosch123> andythenorth: it's a puzzlegame like sokoban. you move atoms with limited movement rules, and have to assemble the desired molekule
22:27:24 <dwfreed> there's a new version of that, fuck what's it called
22:27:45 * dwfreed checks his steam game list
22:31:08 <frosch123> andythenorth: broken mic stream :)
22:34:18 <frosch123> it starts after 10 minutes
22:34:38 <frosch123> first 10 minutes is fixing mic
22:36:57 <andythenorth> I skipped quite a lot
22:37:07 <andythenorth> intros are boring usually :P
22:38:17 <andythenorth> ok so chemicals stuff isn't the only thing to fit in
22:38:51 <andythenorth> dairy products, meat, baked goods, seafood, vegetables
22:39:03 <andythenorth> where does pasta fit ?
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23:55:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] xordspar0 commented on issue #8299: Show type of cargo and destination in vehicle list https://git.io/JUIhK
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