IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2021-12-28
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10:14:36 <TrueBrain> I don't have enough desktop space, so I am toying with my screens .. now rotate one of the two 90 degree .. never realised how much vertical space that gives, and now I have to use my neck .. not sure I like it :P
10:15:00 <TrueBrain> and ofc the Windows10 support for it is crap
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11:40:49 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: Get one of those 21:9 displays and turn that vertical :)
11:41:36 <LordAro> TrueBrain: powertoys makes vertical monitors bareable in terms of window positioning
11:42:01 <TrueBrain> I am being told Win11 also solves these things more or less
11:42:26 <LordAro> don't think win11 is ready for general use yet though :p
11:42:37 <TrueBrain> one drawback I notice with my current display, that vertical the colours drop off real quick on the sides
11:42:58 <TrueBrain> well, it is the type of screen
11:43:04 <TrueBrain> but because you look at it from an angle
11:43:12 <TrueBrain> it shows more than when the screen is horizontal
11:45:01 <TrueBrain> (it is a TN panel, and that shows)
12:00:12 <andythenorth> now TrueGRF has a changelog!
12:03:16 <TrueBrain> it even detects when you last visited, and only shows the part that is actually new to you :P
12:06:57 <andythenorth> when you get your first compliance warning, I'll help you write a cookies statement :P
12:07:08 <TrueBrain> I do not use cookies :)
12:07:15 <andythenorth> no cookie for you
12:07:18 <TrueBrain> and all storage is client-side!
12:07:40 <frosch123> wow, from 0.2.0 to 0.3.0 in 6 minutes. you can get it done by today :)
12:07:58 <andythenorth> it's the 0.8.0 -> 1.0.0 that takes half the work
12:09:33 <TrueBrain> well, I wanted to call the latest 0.9 already tbh
12:09:49 <TrueBrain> there are some details to work out, but it should be possible to make a half-decent NewGRF with this already
12:10:04 <frosch123> "width" and "height" is weird for layouts
12:10:28 <frosch123> are there unicode arrows?
12:10:43 <TrueBrain> Width / depth was the alternative I had in mind .. Still sucks :p
12:11:37 <frosch123> X extend (⤢), Y extend (⤡)
12:21:36 <TrueBrain> anything else that spots your eye? :D
12:23:12 <frosch123> probably low prio, but i think cargos would benefit from a tabular view listing all cargos at once, and properties you would want to adjust in correlation to other cargos, like colour, payment, ...
12:24:40 <TrueBrain> tabular, or grid-based?
12:24:49 <frosch123> what's the difference?
12:25:18 <TrueBrain> owh, I translated tabular with tabs
12:25:43 <frosch123> ok, "table view" :)
12:27:12 <frosch123> yes, something like that
12:28:21 <TrueBrain> will need some experimenting
12:30:07 <andythenorth> sometimes I wish I'd paid attention to chemistry
12:30:27 <andythenorth> of all the subjects, it sparked low interest
12:30:37 <andythenorth> seemed to just be lots of counting
12:32:11 <andythenorth> all my physics teachers were quite elitist about physics being best
12:32:29 <andythenorth> 'biology is counting and classifying, chemistry is counting and cooking'
12:38:47 <TrueBrain> so in FIRS4 ... "glass" is 625kg per ton
12:38:51 <TrueBrain> how does that work exactly? :)
12:39:22 <frosch123> 37.5% break during loading
12:39:51 <NGC3982> "it's transparent so 1kg of glass only weighs 625 grams duh"
12:43:03 * andythenorth wonders what it was copy-pasted from
12:44:24 <frosch123> maybe it was "panes of glass" instead of "tons of glass" at some point?
12:44:40 <frosch123> it's piece goods afterall
12:45:00 <andythenorth> it's copied from packaging
12:45:08 <andythenorth> which has 0.65 for [I don't know why]
12:45:13 <frosch123> "piece goods" in "tons" is weird :)
12:45:15 <andythenorth> see also ENSP and FMSP
12:45:32 <andythenorth> there's no good representation for volumetric piece cargos currently
12:45:47 <andythenorth> the capacity multiplier is just confusing
12:46:51 <andythenorth> at least ENSP and FMSP use 'crates'
12:47:28 <michi_cc> The cargo weight somewhat doubles as a volume factor, i.e. to modify loaded vehicle weight by some arbitrary volume factor (for realistic acceleration and slope steepness).
12:49:53 <frosch123> that's the capacity multilpier, not the weight
12:50:09 <andythenorth> 'vehicles' is the one that seems to annoy players / authors most
12:50:11 <TrueBrain> I helped making FIRS more realistic \o/ :D
12:50:18 <andythenorth> I switched vehicles back to tons = tons
12:50:22 <frosch123> TrueBrain: you made it worse? :p
12:50:23 <andythenorth> because of complaints
12:50:35 <andythenorth> then I got complaints that vehicles should be in units of 'vehicles'
12:50:36 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I leave that to others .. I just said: more realistic :P
12:54:43 <frosch123> i was hoping for some license amendment to truegrf: you are not allowed to create realistic grfs
13:04:00 <TrueBrain> punishable by ban? :)
13:04:50 <TrueBrain> so many small bugs in the UI framework I use
13:04:55 <TrueBrain> I wonder what I am going to do with that ..
13:05:34 <TrueBrain> let's first make a list of things I still need to address, before I delve into that :)
13:07:20 <TrueBrain> how important is capacity multiplier? :P
13:08:15 <TrueBrain> still find it weird only 0x100, 0x200 and 0x400 are used :P
13:09:46 <andythenorth> does it even do anything?
13:14:44 <TrueBrain> right, what more is important to make at least a half-decent industry GRF .. hmm
13:15:22 <TrueBrain> probability etc .. didn't do anything with that yet :)
13:18:40 <andythenorth> when is automatic publishing to bananas? :P
13:19:23 <TrueBrain> hmm .. industry foundation support
13:19:29 <TrueBrain> how hard will that be, and how needed will that be
13:20:15 <andythenorth> well there are only a limited number of slopes :P
13:20:25 <andythenorth> and the game will draw foundations for certain cases
13:21:32 <TrueBrain> so don't support it, you say :P
13:29:43 <TrueBrain> if I am missing anything, please do yell :)
13:32:48 <TrueBrain> owh, "fences" .. still no clue what that really is :D
13:51:10 <andythenorth> fences are a specific FIRS thing
13:51:26 <TrueBrain> I love hearing that, as I am really good in doing that
13:51:53 <frosch123> didn't ogfx+ invent them?
13:52:07 <frosch123> ogfx+industries, ogfx+landscape objects
13:53:27 <andythenorth> I think they were added to FIRS by yexo
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15:40:07 * andythenorth watches the slow pace video
15:41:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] matthijskooijman commented on pull request #9772: Fix missing icon and wrap long line https://git.io/JygNy
15:43:07 <_dp_> build a line, come back next day for the profits, great gameplay :p
15:44:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] matthijskooijman commented on pull request #9772: Fix missing icon and wrap long line https://git.io/JygA2
15:45:19 <supermop_Home> can I have a param that random per game?
15:45:37 <frosch123> you can read the gameseed
15:45:48 <supermop_Home> like everytime you start a new game the bus stops are a different syle?
15:46:20 <supermop_Home> frosch123 is that something I do in a regular switch or up top in a parameter?
15:48:11 <frosch123> hmm, i can't find it... maybe it was only discussed and not implemented
15:50:51 <supermop_Home> if I cant yet have multiple styles of roadstop, it might be fun at least to give a random one
15:52:23 <frosch123> you can use the climate or the map size :)
15:55:13 <nielsm> can you read the town zone?
15:57:30 <supermop_Home> for a bus stop?
15:57:48 <supermop_Home> i don't think so? surely someone else would have tried that already
15:58:44 <andythenorth> naphtha -> integrated chemicals plant -> polymers
15:59:04 <andythenorth> or naphtha -> steam cracker -> olefins -> polymer plant -> polymers
15:59:23 <andythenorth> or naphtha -> monomer plant -> monomers -> polymer plant -> polymers
15:59:24 <frosch123> nielsm: bus stop is a single global sprite. you have to decide it on game start
16:03:30 <supermop_Home> so i have a couple variants of the sprite. user could select by parameter, but i think it would be more fun in the game picked for you
16:05:14 <supermop_Home> picking by start year makes sense, but i almost always start in the same year so i'd always see the same one
16:06:26 <_dp_> hash all the settings xD
16:07:08 <frosch123> supermop_Home: in single-player you can also use the year the savegame was loaded :)
16:07:08 <supermop_Home> seems weird that i can read all these settings but not the seed
16:07:20 <frosch123> so it changes on every save-load cyclwe
16:07:43 <frosch123> yeah, no idea where the seed thingie got lost, i assumed it was already done :)
16:08:02 <supermop_Home> would be interesting to make a different subset of vehicles available each time you play
16:08:28 <supermop_Home> so you don't know that a better locomotive is coming in just a few years
16:09:22 <supermop_Home> I've actually never made a grf that replaces base sprites
16:09:33 <supermop_Home> lets see if i can figure it out
16:10:05 <_dp_> that's better done with gs, as with newgrfs clients can figure that out anyway
16:18:22 <andythenorth> oh can stations read town persistent storage?
16:18:26 <andythenorth> spec suggests they can
16:18:48 * andythenorth thought there was some reason they couldn't :P
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18:15:45 <supermop_Home> well in the past year i seem to have forgotten how to use my dos prompts
18:16:17 <supermop_Home> all my years of playing command and conquer and SimCity 2000 have finally left my brain
18:16:57 <supermop_Home> its just cd\ then the directory path right?
18:19:34 <supermop_Home> oh i was putting an extra space ooops
18:23:34 <glx> oh I think I have a workaround for the CI failure
18:24:08 <glx> and no it's not removing mingw :)
18:24:56 <glx> it seems to be related to ASLR being enabled by default now
18:25:28 <glx> and for some reason I don't really know, it fails to link our debug builds
18:30:07 <supermop_Home> unexpected end of file? i don't really have anything else for it to do
18:48:59 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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19:38:59 <supermop_Home> so i have my sprite replacement blocks in a big if/else where it has if (traffic_side == TRAFFIC_SIDE_RIGHT) {
19:39:07 <supermop_Home> the right sided bus stops,
19:39:19 <supermop_Home> then else the left sided ones
19:39:38 <supermop_Home> but it just uses the left side ones all the time
19:40:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #9773: Fix: [MinGW] Disable ASLR for x64 Debug builds https://git.io/JyaUW
19:40:16 <nielsm> not sure about OTTD, but in original TTD you can change the driving side until the first RV is built
19:40:41 <nielsm> so it might be less defined during game load or something
19:41:04 <frosch123> supermop_Home: it may not update when changing the setting in-game, restart a new game or reload
19:41:26 <supermop_Home> also ogfxe_extra png only has sprites for drive on right stops
19:41:46 <supermop_Home> and none of the terminus bus stops..
19:42:02 <supermop_Home> how do i replace sprites that are in like infra 06
19:43:54 <frosch123> for the drive-in stops you need "replace", for the drive-through stops you need "replace_new"
19:44:35 <frosch123> basically, "replace" is for TTD sprites, "replacenew" for everything new in TTDP/OTTTD
19:45:24 <supermop_Home> in infra 06.png, the drive in stop is made up of three side sprites, plus the pavement
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19:57:10 <peter1138> static int offsetY = 0;
19:58:20 <supermop_Home> also - ogfxe_extra.png only has drive on right bus stop sprites... how does the game switch sprites based on drive side?
19:59:50 <peter1138> static int offsetY = 0;
20:05:00 <supermop_Home> the game uses the same sprites
20:05:21 <supermop_Home> but then the bus stop sign is on the wrong end for drive on left
20:05:48 <supermop_Home> assuming the sign should be at the front of the bus
20:06:31 <supermop_Home> still... it seems like i should be able to switch my replacement sprites based on drive side?
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20:07:50 <frosch123> yes, you have to use the "if" as you wrote before
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20:08:28 <supermop_Home> unfortunately it seems to always return drive on left sprites
20:11:11 <frosch123> did the pastebin remove the indentation?
20:12:06 <frosch123> the else in the middle applies to the style_param, not to the driving-side
20:12:21 <frosch123> if you indent the cases, it's easier to see where { and } match :)
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20:34:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] corpulentcoffee updated pull request #9771: Feature: Add/extend console commands to enable screenshot automation https://git.io/JyW75
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20:51:45 <andythenorth> oof the names of chemicals give me brainache
20:52:00 <andythenorth> Sodium dodecylbenzenesulfonate
20:52:33 <andythenorth> so that's something like a 12 ring something something with benzene and sodium?
20:52:55 * andythenorth just wants to know what cargos can go from chemical plant to detergent factory
20:53:19 <andythenorth> phosphoric acid, caustic soda, chlorine (assuming it makes bleaches also)
20:53:23 <andythenorth> then some kind of surfactant
20:53:30 <andythenorth> but surfactants are very confusing
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21:34:17 <frosch123> use the in-game sprite aligner to show any sprite
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21:34:26 <frosch123> you can enter the sprite number, and get the sprite
21:36:06 <supermop_Home> i get "connection refused" at that link
21:36:29 <Gustavo6046> day night cycle when
21:36:39 <frosch123> it contains "openttdcoop.org" in the url
21:36:54 <frosch123> Gustavo6046: use nightgfx
21:38:02 <Gustavo6046> I wonder if NewGRFs work well with it
21:38:07 <Gustavo6046> what was the name again?
21:49:41 <Gustavo6046> does OpenTTD use OpenAL?
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