IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2021-12-26
⏴ go to previous day
01:02:37 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
04:00:16 *** debdog has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
05:59:31 *** _aD has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)
07:32:39 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
07:39:18 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC (Quit: snail_UES_)
07:53:29 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
07:53:49 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
08:21:08 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
08:34:59 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog
08:53:02 <andythenorth> what was I doing again?
09:29:13 <andythenorth> molasses: litres or tons?
09:29:52 <TrueBrain> "Molasses (/məˈlæsɪz, moʊ-/)[1] or black treacle (British English) is a viscous substance"
09:30:49 <andythenorth> can I use this channel like google always?
09:31:53 <TrueBrain> it is not christmas every day
09:34:01 <andythenorth> probably fun? :)
09:34:04 <TrueBrain> pretty sure most things I did, especially in the earlier years, gave that response from other developers :P
09:34:12 <TrueBrain> I remember I made a patch that allowed for bigger than 256x256 maps
09:34:22 <TrueBrain> they were like: wtf are you doing?! NO! THAT IS TERRIBLE! :)
09:34:44 <andythenorth> this one goes to 11
09:34:47 <TrueBrain> but .. one has to learn how to code some day :)
09:35:19 <TrueBrain> (my patch was a rather low-quality hack, to be clear .. Tron I believe made the actual implementation we have these days)
09:35:42 <andythenorth> so we can't blame you? :P
09:35:58 <TrueBrain> you are always free to blame me for anything
09:35:59 <andythenorth> 4k ^2 is apparently the minimum possible map size
09:36:05 <andythenorth> for some players
09:36:30 <andythenorth> hmm so are we increasing the cargo limit?
09:36:36 <andythenorth> we let frosch take christmas off?
09:36:36 <TrueBrain> still can't believe I managed to import FIRS4 stuff in TrueGRF .. it looks so nice now :)
09:36:42 <LordAro> nielsm: it's missing the license too
09:36:52 <LordAro> (and everything else)
09:36:59 <andythenorth> TrueBrain do I want to know you did it? :P
09:37:16 <TrueBrain> you already know I did it
09:37:19 <TrueBrain> so that is a bit of a weird question
09:37:27 <TrueBrain> btw, Vehicle Distributor ... such a lazy industry
09:37:30 <andythenorth> oh, I forgot to type 'how'
09:37:32 <TrueBrain> I expected more variation ..
09:37:43 <andythenorth> can we just guess what I meant to say?
09:37:46 <andythenorth> would be easier all round
09:37:51 <andythenorth> typing is not easy
09:38:00 <TrueBrain> reading what you write even harder :D
09:38:37 <andythenorth> I read back sometimes, it's not even English what I write
09:38:50 <TrueBrain> I have the same with my Dutch conversations
09:39:00 <andythenorth> cargo label for Acetic Acid?
09:39:05 <andythenorth> chemical formula is CH3COOH
09:39:13 <andythenorth> which is nearly 'chooh' but not quite
09:42:04 <andythenorth> lol these stupid 2 char cargo abbreviations
09:42:06 <andythenorth> for station list
09:42:18 <TrueBrain> yeah .. so every cargo has 4 letters
09:42:26 <TrueBrain> like .. how is this even useful?!
09:43:23 <andythenorth> the station list isn't even limited to 2 chars
09:43:27 <andythenorth> it's just a convention
09:43:45 <andythenorth> but I don't know if the text will overflow if I provide longer string
09:44:27 <andythenorth> # it seems that using 2 chars for these is a convention not a limit, I tested 4 chars and OpenTTD renders it fine - May 2020
09:44:58 <TrueBrain> "It should be a two-letter abbreviation prefixed by the special character 0E to switch to the microscopic font."
09:45:29 <andythenorth> specs are like the bible or something
09:45:48 <TrueBrain> you can just press edit and change it to "at least two-letters"
09:46:14 <Rubidium> but... then you might break TTDP ;)
09:46:21 <andythenorth> forums might be mean
09:46:24 <TrueBrain> ooowwwwhhhhh nnnnnooooooo
09:46:32 <TrueBrain> there was this one dude that tried to apply TTDp on OpenTTD
09:46:36 <TrueBrain> to find out it doesn't work
09:47:05 <andythenorth> TrueBrain btw does TrueGRF make sure to keep mail, goods and food on specific numeric IDs?
09:47:09 <andythenorth> otherwise you break houses
09:47:25 <andythenorth> pax also it seems
09:47:43 <TrueBrain> load the empty template
09:47:48 <TrueBrain> those are all fixed
09:49:16 <andythenorth> one day we will figure out how to actually fix houses
10:09:46 <TrueBrain> so where are the 2 letters of cargo defined for default cargoes ...
10:10:58 <TrueBrain> in the language files
10:11:16 <TrueBrain> so it can be different per language .. that is not confusing at all
10:17:27 <andythenorth> it's a really special feature :)
10:38:31 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd
10:45:52 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
10:55:41 <nielsm> TrueBrain: for the logic of trying to apply ttdpatch to openttd, I could imagine it went something like, "this looks like an old game. old games typically need patching to run on modern systems. I need to check if there are patches. okay I searched for "open ttd patch" and found this ttdpatch. but it doesn't work"
10:55:52 <andythenorth> TTD patch tuesday
10:56:43 <andythenorth> ok so pop quiz: how much yeast is produced per year in the EU
10:56:47 <andythenorth> give or take UK :P
10:56:56 * andythenorth exploring cargos
10:58:28 <NGC3982> 200 tonnes is probably on the low end
10:58:59 <nielsm> "In USA companies like Lesaffre Group, AB Vista, GB Plange and AB Mauri, produced hundreds of thousands of metric tons of yeast in 2012.[citation needed]"
10:59:08 <andythenorth> it's about 1 million tonnes in Europe
10:59:25 <andythenorth> key bits of the economy you never see or hear about :P
11:01:14 <nielsm> and you need a lot of those to reach a million tonnes
11:11:58 <Rubidium> though a lot of produced yeast is turned into other products, e.g. flavouring. Want a roasted chicken flavour? Just dry some specific yeast and you got a roasted chicken flavour
11:13:58 <NGC3982> yeah, the industrial usage must be like 90%
11:20:04 <Rubidium> might even be higher... remember they add ethanol to fuel? That (probably) requires a lot of yeast
11:28:05 * andythenorth continues exploring strange cargos
11:30:01 <Rubidium> can't really find how much yeast you need to make a litre of ethanol though... I guess it does not really matter, as long as you have enough time the yeast will convert and procreate
11:30:47 <nielsm> as long as you remove the ethanol as it produces, so you don't kill the yeast with it
11:42:58 <andythenorth> cargo label for yeast?
11:46:29 <TrueBrain> as the 2 letters have to be somewhat unique to to be useful, YS__ :P
12:01:14 <FLHerne> to make BRED of course
13:03:36 <nielsm> SACC (from Saccharomyces cerevisiae)
13:21:02 <Eddi|zuHause> if a product says it contains "citric acid" (which is, almost everything) you can be sure that that doesn't come from actual lemons. it's produced by modified yeast
13:41:52 <andythenorth> more niche chemical chains :)
13:53:49 <nielsm> FLHerne: actually YEST to make BRED, if Yeast makes Bread then Yest makes Bred
14:01:20 <FLHerne> nielsm: but since when has OpenTTD been about consistency
14:04:45 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
14:58:16 <LordAro> that's the best easter egg though
14:58:20 <LordAro> why would we remove it?
15:19:44 <TrueBrain> works as intended, I would say :)
16:24:30 *** jottyfan has quit IRC (Quit: jottyfan)
16:29:49 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd
17:23:35 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
17:27:53 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Quit: A toaster's basically a soldering iron designed to toast bread)
18:27:54 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
18:38:40 <frosch123> "danger zone" <- what a blatant copy from gh :p
18:52:06 <andythenorth> TrueBrain has asked me many questions frosch123
18:52:09 <andythenorth> mostly about FIRS :P
18:52:19 <andythenorth> I was unsure of most of the answers :P
18:56:11 *** urdh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
19:02:35 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
19:13:02 <TrueBrain> frosch123: NEVAH! (copy from GH :P)
19:13:11 <TrueBrain> I couldn't have invented it better myself :)
19:13:31 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: pretty sure we figured out most :)
19:13:36 <TrueBrain> well, the zoffset is still a weird one
19:13:39 <TrueBrain> especially for the silos
19:49:56 <frosch123> just keep truegrf oppinionated :) no need to support every BS
19:50:32 <TrueBrain> mostly couldn't figure out if there was a legit reason some sprites had a zoffset
19:50:37 <TrueBrain> these are composite sprites
19:50:48 <frosch123> i considered removing newgrf spritelayouts, ottd could just convert them into a simple sprite sequence on load
19:52:41 <TrueBrain> my FIRS import script converts those to a single sprite :P
19:53:39 <TrueBrain> I have yet to figure out what to do with zoffset in general
19:54:06 <TrueBrain> I first have to see what it actual does to understand how to present it to the user :D I now know how I want to do left/top .. but I have yet to implement it :)
19:54:25 <frosch123> zoffset is something you wouln't want to expose to the user
19:54:41 <andythenorth> is there any actual use case for it?
19:54:53 <TrueBrain> wasn't there something about building height you said the other day? I cannot really remember .. too much info tends to cloud the less important details :P
19:54:55 <frosch123> on flat land it is always 0. if you support non-flat land you may set it to 8 ot 16 sometimes
19:55:10 <frosch123> TrueBrain: building height is zextend, not zoffset
19:55:35 <andythenorth> FIRS uses zoffset widely for certain use cases
19:55:39 <TrueBrain> see! Too much info made mind go bsss
19:55:54 <TrueBrain> so what does zoffset actual do?
19:55:57 <andythenorth> but except for placing base set sprites, is it ever useful?
19:57:53 <frosch123> hmm, yeah, i recall my earlier comment about non-flat land. i agree, you never need it :)
19:58:11 <TrueBrain> I never read it, it's fine
19:58:15 <TrueBrain> so I just forget about zoffset
19:58:36 <TrueBrain> I guess composite sprites are useful for the creator .. but that will be fine
19:58:49 <TrueBrain> so what about zextend .. I just now make all industry tiles .. 16x16x16 I believe
19:59:40 <TrueBrain> just keep it hardcoded, don't touch it?
20:00:15 <TrueBrain> okay, I also know how I want to do animated sprites
20:00:24 <TrueBrain> that only leaves groundsprites, UI-wise .. but I figure that out too
20:02:02 <TrueBrain> need just a few more props for cargo .. town-blabla
20:02:06 <TrueBrain> which is just something to do
20:02:23 <TrueBrain> and capacity-multiplier
20:02:25 <TrueBrain> which is just a really odd duck
20:03:04 <TrueBrain> owh, and custom prefixes .. so you can have more than "bags of ..." .. like "boxes of candy" :)
20:04:16 <TrueBrain> owh, and frosch123 .. andythenorth did some terrible things with cargo classes ...
20:04:33 <TrueBrain> like mixing piece goods with liquid
20:04:42 <TrueBrain> I don't know what to do with it :P Burn it with fire, I am thinking :D
20:05:25 <frosch123> oh right, i wondered what would happen if "express" was renamed to "packaged"
20:05:49 <TrueBrain> I now just pick the last one he sets in FIRS :P
20:06:06 <TrueBrain> I like how cargo prices turned out
20:06:16 <TrueBrain> but I also want to support the "custom" callback
20:06:19 <frosch123> yeah, the range control is nice
20:06:29 <frosch123> but the checkboxes are weird in that css
20:06:41 <TrueBrain> checkboxes ? Do I have checkboxes? :P
20:06:43 <frosch123> kind of unclear that they are togglebuttons, and what state they have
20:07:53 <TrueBrain> not really sure what you refer to with checkboxes :P
20:08:25 <frosch123> the "covered"/"powderized"/"oversized" thingie
20:08:47 <TrueBrain> especially in the light theme, they are a bit weird
20:08:52 <TrueBrain> in the dark theme they are slightly better
20:09:09 <TrueBrain> but I do like how you can quickly see what happens, once you know what to look for
20:10:01 <TrueBrain> there is some need for some cleanup .. like label and abbreviation fit well on a single line .. no need to claim all that height :)
20:10:13 <TrueBrain> and in 100% of the cases, long-name is name.lower()
20:10:19 <TrueBrain> so I wonder if I shouldn't just make that the rul
20:11:11 <frosch123> i guess postpone that until you have an opinion about translations :)
20:11:27 <TrueBrain> oof, translations ...
20:11:31 <TrueBrain> didn't even consider that :P
20:11:59 <frosch123> FIRS is also a dictionary :p
20:12:10 <frosch123> for lots of cargo and industry terms
20:12:40 <TrueBrain> guess mainly long-name is needed for cases etc
20:12:51 <TrueBrain> but in general I did away with that anyway, and made everything plural
20:13:03 <TrueBrain> which works for some languages ... not for others :D
20:13:40 <TrueBrain> and cases is indeed the reason long-names might be different
20:13:49 <TrueBrain> still, you always enter it in English
20:13:54 <TrueBrain> so no need to bother the creator with that
20:14:19 <andythenorth> is there a cargo class for 'burning' ?
20:28:55 <glx> <frosch123> i considered removing newgrf spritelayouts, ottd could just convert them into a simple sprite sequence on load <-- only if no registers
20:32:02 <frosch123> what fool added registers? :p
21:40:00 *** gelignite has quit IRC (Quit: Stay safe!)
22:46:18 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
22:50:12 *** andythenorth has quit IRC (Quit: andythenorth)
22:51:50 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
22:53:25 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
22:53:36 *** frosch123 has quit IRC (Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn)
22:55:32 *** andythenorth has quit IRC ()
22:58:47 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
23:04:25 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC (Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.)
23:23:53 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC ()
continue to next day ⏵
