IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2021-03-29
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00:11:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on pull request #8574: Feature: Ships yield when passing through one another https://git.io/JYcNH
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05:42:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rpwjanzen updated pull request #8894: Replace IConsolePrint*(F)( calls with specific console level calls https://git.io/JYqiY
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05:49:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rpwjanzen opened pull request #8909: Feature 7957, banlist: load/save ban lists from/to external files https://git.io/JYCMN
05:54:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rpwjanzen updated pull request #8909: Feature 7957, banlist: load/save ban lists from/to external files https://git.io/JYCMN
05:57:36 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] perezdidac updated pull request #43: Add: pass upload date to OpenTTD client https://git.io/JYOJd
05:58:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] perezdidac commented on pull request #43: Add: pass upload date to OpenTTD client https://git.io/JYCyB
05:59:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] perezdidac commented on pull request #43: Add: pass upload date to OpenTTD client https://git.io/JYCya
05:59:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] perezdidac updated pull request #43: Add: pass upload date to OpenTTD client https://git.io/JYOJd
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06:29:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8909: Feature 7957, banlist: load/save ban lists from/to external files https://git.io/JYC7E
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06:50:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] perezdidac updated pull request #43: Add: pass upload date to OpenTTD client https://git.io/JYOJd
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07:08:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac updated pull request #8902: Feature: show upload date in the network content window https://git.io/JYZyX
07:11:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8902: Feature: show upload date in the network content window https://git.io/JYCA7
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07:35:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8902: Feature: show upload date in the network content window https://git.io/JYCjo
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07:43:31 <peter1138> Hmm, why did I keep my old PC? What am I ever going to use it for?
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07:49:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain commented on pull request #43: Add: pass upload date to OpenTTD client https://git.io/JYWfs
07:57:53 <TrueBrain> the obligated OMG 2038 IS APPROACHING comment :P
08:04:55 <TrueBrain> crazy to imagine we are half-way there between OpenTTDs creation and 2038 .. I am getting old :P
08:09:37 <peter1138> Where are all the new young developers?
08:20:52 <TrueBrain> owh, time_t still hasn't gotten a real spec I see ..
08:20:58 <TrueBrain> still rather undefined what the resolution is
08:21:24 <TrueBrain> also undefined if it includes leap seconds or not .. "commonly it doesn't", is the answer :P
08:22:22 <TrueBrain> "While investigation is still underway, we have decided that maintaining our own git infrastructure is an unnecessary security risk, and that we will discontinue the git.php.net server. Instead, the repositories on GitHub, which were previously only mirrors, will become canonical."
08:22:25 <TrueBrain> and another project sees the light
08:33:22 <blathijs> Woah, OpenSFX release! Didn't see that coming :-)
08:34:43 <andythenorth> I did a crude measurement of the V in HSV to darken cargo colours that were too light
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08:35:18 <TrueBrain> blathijs: it is the second already .. :P
08:40:21 <blathijs> Now I can finally clear away my Debian packaging backlog for OpenSFX (small packaging updates, policy version bumps, that sort of thing that I normally do whenever there's an upstream release)
08:40:55 <TrueBrain> \o/ Clearing backlogs is always nice :P
08:49:38 <andythenorth> I think this cargoflow is nearly done for steeltown
08:49:48 <andythenorth> just need to over-ride a few colours for clarity
08:50:01 * andythenorth surprised that graphviz can be actually tuned
08:50:15 <andythenorth> not 100% reliably but eh
08:50:24 <andythenorth> can influence the magic enough to get a result
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09:06:58 <peter1138> Them: Can you export this data?
09:07:06 <peter1138> Me: Here is the button to press to export this data.
09:07:15 <peter1138> Them: Can you send the data?
09:07:41 <TrueBrain> they have to make sure they can blame someone else in case they were not allowed to have that data :P
09:10:08 <LordAro> or perhaps better, "for data security reasons, i am not allowed to access this data, you have to press the button with your user permissions"
09:12:02 <andythenorth> we used to field constant feature requests for 'download report' features
09:12:18 <andythenorth> then when we added them, we fielded constant feature requests for 'please email me the report'
09:12:49 <peter1138> Then it's 'can you add this datad to the report'
09:12:58 <peter1138> Then it's 'why is this data on this report'
09:13:20 <peter1138> 'Can you put this data here'
09:13:41 <peter1138> Yes, a new report because you needed column A to be in column E, yes yes.
09:28:32 <Timberwo1f> Most of the time I found "download report" was the surface on an iceberg of, "customer/user has reimplemented most of the functionality of your software in Excel and is trying to add raw data to it"
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09:38:36 <Timberwo1f> A fun one many years ago was one report with two users; user A wanted a data extract for their pile of hand-cranked Excel, user B wanted to print the report as-is on a single page of landscape A4.
09:38:45 <Timberwo1f> No surprise those two goals end up in conflict.
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09:53:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8468: Fix #8316: Make sort industries by production and transported with a cargo filter possible https://git.io/JLHah
09:55:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8908: Adds hotkey for the new filter edit boxes. https://git.io/JYWlP
09:56:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8468: Fix #8316: Make sort industries by production and transported with a cargo filter possible https://git.io/JYWlD
09:56:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8468: Fix #8316: Make sort industries by production and transported with a cargo filter possible https://git.io/JYWl9
09:57:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8468: Fix #8316: Make sort industries by production and transported with a cargo filter possible https://git.io/JYWlF
10:04:06 <peter1138> A PR to make something possible.
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10:10:26 <peter1138> I guess all PRs are, in a way.
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12:45:47 <andythenorth> hmm python rgb to hsv using the standard lib module is shifting colours
12:45:53 <andythenorth> maybe there are colourspace issues, dunno
12:46:34 <andythenorth> doesn't really matter, I just don't like not knowing the reasons :P
12:59:14 <TrueBrain> is your original rgb sRGB or Adobe RGB? :D
13:02:07 <andythenorth> it's whatever PIL produces as RGB triples from TTD DOS palette :P
13:02:19 <andythenorth> I didn't investigate further :P
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13:31:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8902: Feature: show upload date in the network content window https://git.io/JYlen
13:41:00 <TrueBrain> lol, I tried to change the base to the release/1.11 in GitHub for ^^
13:45:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8902: Feature: show upload date in the network content window https://git.io/JYlJx
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13:58:56 <LordAro> interesting that the new one is 70% of the master titlegame
13:59:04 <LordAro> suppose compression has something to do with it?
13:59:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rpwjanzen commented on pull request #8909: Feature 7957, banlist: load/save ban lists from/to external files https://git.io/JYlIU
13:59:35 <TrueBrain> not sure what compression the master title game has
13:59:42 <TrueBrain> but I would guess the LRE variant :P
14:02:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rpwjanzen commented on pull request #8909: Feature 7957, banlist: load/save ban lists from/to external files https://git.io/JYlIV
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14:51:53 <TrueBrain> so the winning title game got 75 votes
14:52:00 <TrueBrain> last year, the winner got 16 votes
14:52:11 <TrueBrain> who-ever doubted what would be more accessible: GitHub or tt-forums: here is your answer
14:52:30 <TrueBrain> total votes last year was only 62
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15:25:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] RoqueDeicide opened issue #8911: Suggestion: Replace target of the order without recreating it, and/or copy order's specs. https://git.io/JYlBY
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15:37:34 <FLHerne> "So I hacked it up quickly, to learn about XHR long polling. Then I put it online, and then I moved on to the next toy project as usual.
15:37:36 <FLHerne> However someone started using it, to my surprise. So I added a chat to communicate with that person."
15:40:57 <Nicd> hi, is there a way to have a train bypass a station if all the tracks are occupied? like go round and round in a circle till it gets to an open track :D
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16:02:34 <FLHerne> Nicd: Not a straightforward one, certainly
16:03:14 <Nicd> I was afraid so. it would have just made for funnier stations. imagining a long line of trains just circling around till they find space, instead of getting stuck waiting
16:03:48 <FLHerne> It's possible you could do something with implicit orders and '2-way EOL'
16:04:21 <FLHerne> (there's a lot of stuff on that wiki about advanced signalling ideas)
16:05:22 <FLHerne> _dp_: It's not clear to me from that article what exactly it's meant to be, nor how it works :-/
16:05:40 <_dp_> it sends extra trains to the depot
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16:24:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on issue #8911: Suggestion: Replace target of the order without recreating it, and/or copy order's specs. https://git.io/JYlBY
16:24:55 <Nicd> wow, that really seems too complex for me
16:25:00 <Nicd> thanks for the tips anyway :)
16:32:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] perezdidac commented on pull request #43: Add: pass upload date to OpenTTD client https://git.io/JYlPl
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16:34:48 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] RoqueDeicide commented on issue #8911: Suggestion: Replace target of the order without recreating it, and/or copy order's specs. https://git.io/JYlBY
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16:38:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8902: Feature: show upload date in the network content window https://git.io/JYlX6
16:42:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac updated pull request #8902: Feature: show upload date in the network content window https://git.io/JYZyX
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16:49:53 <frosch123> hmm, so, the titlegame with the train crash won
16:52:24 <frosch123> hmm, now i am unsure..
16:52:37 <frosch123> aren't pbs+block signal mixtures in the same junction invalid?
16:53:54 <frosch123> they seem to reserve paths even when crossing block signals
16:53:58 <frosch123> that's new to me :p
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17:00:19 <andythenorth> cargo colours are the ones used in game, but algorithmically adjusted
17:00:32 <andythenorth> graph layout is extensively manually tuned
17:00:34 <Wolf01> I was trying to figure out how is possible to crash a train without manually ignoring a signal :P
17:01:20 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> graph layout is extensively manually tuned <- still looks like some kid drawing :P
17:02:37 <Wolf01> Arctic economy looks like professional now
17:04:23 <andythenorth> it's the problem of graphviz bezier splines
17:05:03 <frosch123> arctic is weird. the "ammonia" is very close to the "pyrite smelter"
17:05:09 <frosch123> even though there is actually no arrow
17:05:20 <Wolf01> That's why I like more ortho splines
17:06:37 <frosch123> i like how the lines blend in with the colored cargo boxes
17:10:04 <andythenorth> I can manually tune arctic
17:10:17 <andythenorth> I've discovered how 'rank=same' works
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17:53:04 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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17:57:45 <Wolf01> Yeah, a lot more tidy now
17:58:06 <Wolf01> Some arrows might need to be fixed but I really like that
17:58:42 <Wolf01> Maybe you could just drop the exit arrow
17:59:09 <andythenorth> the ortho tends to overlap though :|
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18:00:24 <Wolf01> If only there is a way to merge the arrows into one, maybe there is but you need to do it manually
18:00:41 <Wolf01> I mean like the 3 food arrows
18:02:13 <FLHerne> Wolf01: Removing signals, of course...
18:02:44 <FLHerne> I'm sure there used to be an issue where PBS+block could cause crashes, but that might be fixed now
18:02:46 <andythenorth> there are various strategies to tune graphviz
18:02:57 <andythenorth> but nothing that automatically makes ortho better :P
18:03:51 <Wolf01> Yeah, I did everything manually last time
18:04:57 <andythenorth> I can increase the node separation, which creates more space verticallly
18:05:14 <andythenorth> but there is a limit to what will fit a 'normal' browser window
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18:17:57 <andythenorth> ortho rides the struggle bus too much
18:21:27 <frosch123> FLHerne: that's what i thought. but i guess it only applies if you convert a non-pbs junction to a pbs junction while there is a train inside
18:23:29 * andythenorth tried mixing spline types
18:23:32 <andythenorth> graphviz says no
18:23:54 <andythenorth> Graph property, not Edge or Subgraph
18:30:05 <andythenorth> I could draw invisible industry nodes and force all industries to a rectangular grid
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18:48:52 <frosch123> wasn't the point of graphviz to have automated graphs? :p
18:50:46 <andythenorth> I have read a lot of docs
18:50:56 <andythenorth> automated graphviz seems to be a niche use case :P
18:51:06 <andythenorth> most people posting examples are making graphs manually
18:51:35 <TrueBrain> so you had a problem, found a solution, that created another problem? :D
18:51:45 <TrueBrain> I never have that issue at all :P :P
18:51:48 <andythenorth> this is software
18:52:00 <andythenorth> pls send t-shirt slogan
18:52:04 <TrueBrain> I am currently cross compiling some Go packages to arm ..
18:52:09 <frosch123> TrueBrain: in this case, i don't think the software created the problem :p
18:52:11 <TrueBrain> I never did anything with Go
18:52:14 <TrueBrain> I don't like it either
18:52:35 <TrueBrain> by default, Go downloads everything via their proxy
18:52:39 <TrueBrain> which seems to be rate limited
18:52:45 <TrueBrain> this package has 6 dependencies
18:52:52 <TrueBrain> after the 4th, it kicks my HTTPS session out
18:53:03 <andythenorth> I showed some people and work and they said 'this is why nobody should use graphviz for docs ever'
18:53:16 <TrueBrain> but I guess it makes sense .. it is a Google product .. so knowing exactly what people download via your go language is important
18:55:39 <frosch123> andythenorth: i like it
18:55:49 <andythenorth> that's 1 vote then :)
18:55:52 <frosch123> it saves me from learning the industry names, i can just go by picture
18:55:59 <andythenorth> it's not a democracy, but eh votes help
18:56:29 <frosch123> did you tune the cargo colors to work on white?
18:56:35 <frosch123> i think the other day some where very bright
18:56:44 <andythenorth> I tuned them this morning
18:56:58 <andythenorth> convert to HSV and then darken if V is some threshold
18:57:16 <andythenorth> the python RGB -> HSV converter in standard lib seems to distort the colours a bit
18:57:28 * andythenorth didn't investigate further
18:57:42 <TrueBrain> text is slightly too high in the boxes :P
18:58:12 <TrueBrain> but yeah, images are better than text
18:58:18 <andythenorth> yeah the text is annoying
18:58:26 <andythenorth> I can't control it
18:58:32 <andythenorth> I tried forcing a border to the top to trick it
18:58:35 <TrueBrain> just draw it yourself :P
18:58:56 <frosch123> TrueBrain: do you know that these charts change every 2 day?
18:59:08 <TrueBrain> frosch123: we need something to keep him busy
18:59:48 <andythenorth> yeah that svg scale-pan plug in is limited and buggy
19:00:06 <TrueBrain> when you move your mouse over it, without clicking, it changes viewport
19:00:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on issue #8911: Suggestion: Replace target of the order without recreating it, and/or copy order's specs. https://git.io/JYlBY
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19:00:27 <frosch123> TrueBrain: that behavior changes with reloading the page sometimes
19:00:30 <andythenorth> oh I thought that got fixed
19:00:41 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I love the "sometimes" part :D
19:00:45 <andythenorth> goes it throw out plugin?
19:00:56 <andythenorth> it doesn't work locally either, and I never figured out why
19:01:00 <andythenorth> but makes testing really annoying
19:01:13 <frosch123> it's better than nothing
19:01:23 <andythenorth> hmm why does ferrochrome colour get converted from RGB green to HSV blue
19:01:23 <frosch123> i have no idea why browsers support zooming png, but not svg
19:01:38 <frosch123> it's like the opposite of their intentions
19:01:42 <andythenorth> svg used as background image zooms fine
19:01:45 <frosch123> scaleable image not being scaleable...
19:01:46 <andythenorth> but not as object
19:02:12 <TrueBrain> well, why is this Go application already spending 26 CPU minutes on compiling a single file?
19:02:28 <frosch123> it's sending your hdd to google
19:02:40 <TrueBrain> its so horrible .. no progress reporting
19:02:58 <frosch123> i have not heard about go for years
19:03:09 <TrueBrain> it sadly enough is still a popular language
19:03:12 <frosch123> is it still hip? or did everyone switch to rust?
19:03:12 <TrueBrain> especially for kubernetes
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19:03:51 <frosch123> some dutch guy told me: docker yay, k8 nay
19:04:16 <TrueBrain> doing k8s in production is your worst nightmare, that was one smart Dutch guy :P
19:04:47 <andythenorth> glad I never got on the k8s hype train :P
19:05:29 <frosch123> andythenorth: no idea what it's supposed to do, but it's not good :p
19:05:37 <andythenorth> what does it do?
19:05:50 <andythenorth> I replaced the svg method to be background image on a div
19:05:50 <frosch123> when zooming out, it makes it smaller
19:05:52 <andythenorth> instead of object
19:05:59 <frosch123> when zooming in, it stretches it to window size
19:06:06 <frosch123> independent of zoom level
19:06:10 <andythenorth> it should scale with rest of page elements
19:06:13 <TrueBrain> what the hell is your browser doing? :P
19:06:34 <TrueBrain> no, it is doing the same here
19:06:38 <TrueBrain> I just had to scroll further in
19:06:46 <TrueBrain> took a while for that to kick in :D
19:08:23 <andythenorth> so it's capped at viewport width because it's the background to a div in a responsive container
19:08:32 <andythenorth> so it won't scale past the viewport without special handling
19:10:08 <andythenorth> no maybe it's just my error
19:12:52 <andythenorth> meh I broke the path to the embedded industry images
19:13:35 <andythenorth> and there are no 404s so I can't see what broke :P
19:16:50 <andythenorth> yeah background image svg route fails
19:17:16 * andythenorth must to ship on Thursday, so not fixing that now I reckon
19:17:21 <andythenorth> that image library though :(
19:18:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rpwjanzen updated pull request #8909: Feature 7957, banlist: load/save ban lists from/to external files https://git.io/JYCMN
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19:22:37 <frosch123> it requires a gearbox for the wheel, but otherwise works
19:25:35 * andythenorth wonders how many coin miners it contains
19:25:40 <andythenorth> 3rd party javascript :P
19:28:03 <frosch123> aol cds no longer exist, otherwise they would contain miners
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20:06:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac updated pull request #8902: Feature: show upload date in the network content window https://git.io/JYZyX
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20:11:10 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] RoqueDeicide commented on issue #8911: Suggestion: Replace target of the order without recreating it, and/or copy order's specs. https://git.io/JYlBY
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21:01:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8909: Feature 7957, banlist: load/save ban lists from/to external files https://git.io/JY8lQ
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22:08:21 <TrueBrain> argh, this stupid go shit .. keeps having issues setting up TLS connections; no clue why, as no hint is provided
22:08:28 <TrueBrain> just via net/http of go it fails
22:08:31 <TrueBrain> can I just hit it a lot?
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22:38:48 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rpwjanzen updated pull request #8909: Feature 7957, banlist: load/save ban lists from/to external files https://git.io/JYCMN
22:40:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rpwjanzen updated pull request #8909: Feature 7957, banlist: load/save ban lists from/to external files https://git.io/JYCMN
22:41:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rpwjanzen updated pull request #8909: Feature 7957, banlist: load/save ban lists from/to external files https://git.io/JYCMN
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