IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-11-04
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00:48:05 <FLHerne> LordAro: What would you think about deleting all the `debug_print` methods in NML?
00:49:08 <FLHerne> Most of them only work in some particular state, they're not really tested properly, and mostly duplicate the NML printed output anyway
00:49:26 <FLHerne> There are better ways to actually debug things :p
03:50:00 <supermop_Home> still not looking great
03:51:22 <FLHerne> The election, or my patches? :p
03:51:30 <FLHerne> (I think it's true of either)
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15:14:05 <andythenorth> ships are such a pissy thing to add to the game
15:15:03 <andythenorth> that's accepting defeat!
15:15:38 <TrueBrain> "somehow" is easy, because it doesn't have the right label
15:15:45 <TrueBrain> I think one of the mobile apps doesn't do this correctly
15:16:02 <glx> oh so if I manually add it it's ok ?
15:16:03 <TrueBrain> you have 1 of 2 choices: ask the user to make a new ticket, this time with a real browser, or add the user manually to the right time and act like you are DorpsGek :)
15:16:43 <TrueBrain> it is always okay to do it manually; DorpsGek is just here to make life a bit easier and less repetitive :)
15:19:50 <TrueBrain> I btw thing more specific that it is the iOS app from GitHub, that is failing in to its job properly :)
15:32:55 <TrueBrain> and I fixed many small bugs and other odds and ends
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17:43:44 <Eddi|zuHause> what makes that different from any other liquid?
17:45:04 <FLHerne> You get drunk if you drink it
17:45:26 <FLHerne> And if there's a shipwreck, all the whales get tipsy
17:45:27 <Eddi|zuHause> as opposed to killing you outright, you mean?
17:48:28 <FLHerne> I know road milk tankers are much harder to drive than fuel tankers
17:48:31 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause it's mostly regulatory :P
17:48:42 <FLHerne> Because they're not allowed to have slosh bulkheads, for easier cleaning
17:48:52 <FLHerne> But ship tanks are so big I doubt that's relevant
17:48:58 <andythenorth> oh is that why the rollover a lot FLHerne?
17:49:06 <Eddi|zuHause> what's a slosh bulkhead?
17:49:13 <andythenorth> for Hog, most of the milk tanker photos I found were on their side
17:49:15 <FLHerne> A bulkhead to stop the contents sloshing
17:49:20 <andythenorth> due to newsworthy-ness
17:49:36 <andythenorth> road tanker slosh animations is a whole YouTube sub-genre
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18:02:51 <andythenorth> that is a comprehensive i18n strategy
18:03:26 <TrueBrain> it is possibly the weirdest thing I have seen on our wiki :)
18:13:28 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i can beat that :p
18:23:34 <TrueBrain> frosch123: lol ... poor people ...
18:24:12 <TrueBrain> I fixed that you cannot make pages in odd places .. folders are created otherwise automatically .. Files is nearly there ..
18:24:25 <TrueBrain> main issue currently: you can make a page in File/ folder .. which should of course be: upload a file :P
18:24:28 <TrueBrain> but that is on the TODO
18:24:49 <TrueBrain> case-checking is not in there yet, neither is renaming .. something for tomorrow I think
18:25:22 <LordAro> just host it on a windows server, will do case checking for free!
18:25:22 <TrueBrain> I tried to make it so that if you link to a page of another language, that language is added in the title, so: "OpenTTD's Wiki (nl)", etc
18:25:42 <TrueBrain> LordAro: we have a Dutch saying for that: dusssssss
18:26:16 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I couldn't really find a nice way to tell people to make an issue/PR for folder renaming btw .. not sure where that should go honestly
18:26:53 <TrueBrain> maybe a help-section of some kind
18:27:42 <TrueBrain> Firefox insists I have a network portal active ... which I do not :P
18:27:45 <frosch123> TrueBrain: we need some wiki-dialect page. we accumulated some differences from mediawiki :)
18:28:02 <TrueBrain> we have wiki-pages for that, not? :D
18:28:29 <TrueBrain> I was thinking of putting a link on the Edit page, which explains a thing or two
18:29:22 <TrueBrain> btw, really curious what performance is going to do if every file has a mediawiki attached to it ..
18:29:28 <frosch123> i am not sure what to put on ottd wiki pages, and what into md in truewiki
18:29:28 <TrueBrain> it doubles the amount of mediawiki files we will have :D
18:29:53 <frosch123> ok, i'll push File: today then :p
18:30:10 <TrueBrain> fun other fact, you can transclude files there
18:30:24 <TrueBrain> so you could make a File which transcludes a Page which transcludes a Template ... it is really silly
18:32:42 <frosch123> let's hope we do not have to forward declare prototypes
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19:48:56 <andythenorth> if I work on 2 Horse rosters simultaneously
19:49:01 <andythenorth> but only plan to release one initially
19:49:04 <andythenorth> what % done is it?
19:57:13 <frosch123> TrueBrain: those stupid emoticon images have licenses in their File: texts
19:58:49 <TrueBrain> frosch123: is that a problem?
19:59:22 <frosch123> no, i just finally found an image where the text contained something noticeable
19:59:48 <TrueBrain> :D SOMETHING USEFUL FOUND! OWH NOOOOO :p
20:00:35 <TrueBrain> owh, right, "Random Page" on mediawiki gives you one from ANY language
20:00:39 <TrueBrain> I never understood that anti-feature
20:01:23 <frosch123> originally it was meant to be "delete random page"
20:02:55 <TrueBrain> but you are reviewing all those 4000+ file mediawiki files, or what? :P
20:11:20 <frosch123> only enough to train the script :)
20:28:12 <TrueBrain> sorry? My english translator fails on that sentence :(
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20:47:04 <andythenorth> so...how many generations of ships
20:47:24 <andythenorth> I was thinking 2
20:47:31 <andythenorth> also is rice + vegetables valid for dinner?
20:47:42 <supermop_Home> what vegetables?
20:47:50 <Eddi|zuHause> generations over what timeframe?
20:48:15 <Eddi|zuHause> 1700-1900, 1900-1950, 1950-?
20:48:45 <andythenorth> there have only been 4 evolutions in ship appearance in that time
20:48:50 <andythenorth> and I don't want to draw all of them
20:49:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i think they built sail ships until like 1920 or so
20:49:26 <andythenorth> they did, but I have ruled out sailing ships
20:50:11 <Eddi|zuHause> you can do wheel-driven steam ships, but those would be river-only
20:50:20 <andythenorth> there were ocean going paddle steamers
20:50:24 <andythenorth> I have a plan for those....
20:50:34 <andythenorth> the hull and structure in many cases were the same
20:50:43 <andythenorth> and ships were converted to/from screw/paddles
20:50:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say one generation every 50 years-ish?
20:51:33 <andythenorth> I think that would be optimum
20:51:34 <Eddi|zuHause> that'd be 4 generations
20:51:49 <andythenorth> I would like to do that, but each ship takes 1 week to draw
20:52:33 <andythenorth> I am thinking 1860-1900 limited selection
20:52:39 <andythenorth> 1900-1970 full selection steam
20:52:46 <andythenorth> 1970-end full selection diesel
20:53:05 <andythenorth> that doesn't really account for LNG, hydrogen power, innovative hull shapes etc
20:53:25 <Eddi|zuHause> 1970 seems a tad late for diesel?
20:54:01 <andythenorth> it's late to new-build steam yes
20:54:12 <andythenorth> 1940 would be better from an IRL perspective
20:54:35 <andythenorth> hmm the appearance of 1940 steam / diesel is identical except funnel details
20:54:49 <andythenorth> maybe I could transition the power type without changing anything else
20:55:14 <Eddi|zuHause> could settle for 1950-ish
20:55:27 <andythenorth> supermop_Home carrots, black kale, beans, rice?
20:55:32 <andythenorth> no meat or cheese
20:55:35 <Eddi|zuHause> and have 2000+ variants as "stretch goal" :)
20:55:47 <Eddi|zuHause> in case you're ever bored :p
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22:36:38 <frosch123> TrueBrain: pushed the result of today
22:36:54 <frosch123> all File:*mediawiki are new
22:37:04 <frosch123> Page transclusions are still missing
22:37:30 <frosch123> i trashed some more categories
22:37:52 <frosch123> and tried to magically sort templates/categories/files into folders like the pages
22:38:04 <frosch123> works in a lot of cases, but not all
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22:44:55 <TrueBrain> frosch123: cool; will benchmark tomorrow what the impact is on the server :D
22:46:01 <TrueBrain> well, I can take a quick look ofc :D
22:46:08 <TrueBrain> memory consumption is up, no surprise :P
22:46:22 <TrueBrain> 60MB instead of 55MB :P
22:47:23 <TrueBrain> hmm ... an exception when loading
22:47:38 <TrueBrain> it cannot find a file ... which is a bit odd :D
22:48:37 <TrueBrain> ah .. a file that has been moved .. hmm
22:49:02 <frosch123> most files have been moved :p
22:49:15 <TrueBrain> issue with my caching
22:49:26 <TrueBrain> it has a page as dependency, it tries to invalidate it,but OWH NO, IT IS NOT THERE :D
22:49:33 <frosch123> btw. "/Folder" without trailing / gives 500
22:50:17 <TrueBrain> hmm .. why is Sentry not picking it up when I do that on staging ..
22:50:47 <TrueBrain> k, got the traceback, will fix :)
22:51:23 <frosch123> i edited the url manually, there was no link to that url
22:51:36 <TrueBrain> no [[Translation]] in File mediawikis?
22:52:29 <TrueBrain> no, seems there are none; I expected a few :)
22:52:50 <TrueBrain> okay, total RAM went up from 55 to 70, with these extra pages, which is all because of the metadata cache :)
22:54:21 <TrueBrain> okay, otherwise this seems to work just fine :D Sweet .. mostly missing the translation tag
22:54:52 <TrueBrain> nice folder structure :)
22:55:50 <TrueBrain> you btw can't have a file called "Main Page" (as that is the index marker)
22:56:37 <frosch123> luckily there is none :)
22:57:24 <TrueBrain> but the translation, bug on your side, bug on my side?
22:58:13 <TrueBrain> hmm ... folders in File don't list anything, that needs fixing
22:58:30 <TrueBrain> found some other bugs, will fix them up and deploy tomorrow to staging :D
22:58:41 <frosch123> the folders worked for me
22:58:41 <TrueBrain> means we also have working files \o/
22:58:50 <frosch123> missing indexing on your side?
22:59:20 <TrueBrain> which does not list the folder
22:59:25 <TrueBrain> (it tries to load Main Page, which does not exist)
22:59:54 <TrueBrain> minor boo-boo on my side :)
23:00:15 <TrueBrain> dir-listing is really fast, I am happy with that. I was a bit afraid it would be slow with this many files, but it is fine
23:00:40 <TrueBrain> sweet :) This slowly is getting together :D
23:02:14 <frosch123> TrueBrain: haha, 127.0.0.1:8000 works for me :p
23:03:03 <frosch123> i had to check whether i cleaned the most obvious blood after moving all files
23:05:45 <frosch123> i pushed the file translations
23:06:09 <frosch123> either it does not work, or the indexer did not notice it
23:07:31 <TrueBrain> works fine for me ...... after you add 3 lines of code :P
23:07:39 <TrueBrain> File namespace didn't render a language bar yet :)
23:08:00 <TrueBrain> sometimes I really surprise myself ... it "just works" :o
23:08:11 <TrueBrain> I think I found the correct balance of abstraction with namespaces :)
23:09:25 <TrueBrain> that image you gave, is a bit odd, as in:
23:09:37 <TrueBrain> in your export there is also the It language, which is nice
23:09:42 <TrueBrain> but on the current wiki there is also a de version
23:10:18 <TrueBrain> ah, not on any page
23:10:23 <TrueBrain> I guess that is why
23:10:40 <frosch123> ah, yes, translate an image, and then don't use it :)
23:10:51 <TrueBrain> cool, this works \o/
23:11:07 <TrueBrain> have some fixing to do, but nothing spectacular :)
23:11:14 <TrueBrain> guess tomorrow I will also try to allow file uploads :D
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23:13:06 <TrueBrain> nice work frosch123 , seriously.. nice work :D
23:13:22 <TrueBrain> Who would have seen this coming ... from migrating to new software to restructuring and cleaning out the bullshit :D
23:13:37 <TrueBrain> soon our wiki will be (slightly more) USEFUL :D
23:13:44 <TrueBrain> and frosch123 now knows every page .. so yeah :P
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