IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-10-26
⏴ go to previous day
00:17:05 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
01:38:25 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
01:39:57 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
01:41:05 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
01:41:23 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
04:48:14 <dwfreed> LordAro: next time frosch123 is around, let them know I fixed it :) (and thanks for the hilight)
08:02:27 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
08:03:16 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd
08:09:49 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
08:14:56 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
08:15:09 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
08:16:53 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
08:19:15 *** longtomjr_ has joined #openttd
09:45:23 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd
09:55:53 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
10:15:15 *** Progman has joined #openttd
10:34:10 <LordAro> you've clearly had a productive weekend
10:34:45 <TrueBrain> weekend? This was 10 days :P
10:36:49 <TrueBrain> well, tbh, most of that time was understanding what the fuck a user had tried to do on the wiki :P
10:40:54 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
10:43:12 <TrueBrain> welcome andythenorth
10:45:17 <TrueBrain> I have to decouple TrueWiki from OpenTTD content etc, but that is all for "sometime later" .. first getting it to work :D
10:53:55 <TrueBrain> 2700 LoC is wikitexthtml now, lol .. that grew fast :P ply tends to do that for you :D
12:43:21 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
12:43:34 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
13:04:18 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
14:00:38 *** supermop_Home_ has joined #openttd
14:02:15 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd
15:45:18 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
16:02:35 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd
17:19:49 *** frosch12 has joined #openttd
17:28:01 *** frosch12 has joined #openttd
17:29:07 *** frosch12 is now known as frosch123
17:30:37 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
18:08:53 <TrueBrain> Our group of minions is growing!!
18:13:50 <longtomjr_> What do you use for the localization?
18:47:52 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
18:52:07 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
19:12:14 <frosch123> TrueBrain: migrated <gallery> :)
19:12:31 <frosch123> also, nice essay on truewiki :)
19:13:18 <frosch123> i do no longer develop software for high voltage stuff, i do no longer spark
19:14:08 <Wolf01> I spark hate, even if I'm not connected to a power source
19:14:38 <frosch123> too much php? too much ruby? both?
19:15:01 <Wolf01> Maybe is the lack of those
19:18:20 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd
19:37:50 <TrueBrain> guess the next thing I should be doing is making the editing available
19:38:06 <TrueBrain> it sounds really easy to add, so I am curious what I am not seeing :P
19:40:20 <TrueBrain> well, something for tomorrow or so to try; now first lets see how galleries look :)
19:47:49 <TrueBrain> it is missing CSS, but that is not the point :)
19:50:00 <andythenorth> css is never a primary concern
19:50:01 <frosch123> firs charts are prettier
19:50:29 <andythenorth> dunno, I think the colours are nicer here
19:50:38 <andythenorth> I like the gel shading effect as well
19:50:48 <frosch123> haha, that's the part i dislike :)
19:51:29 <andythenorth> everyday is a schoolday with OpenTTD
19:51:44 <longtomjr_> Also, nice the language switching works
19:51:52 <andythenorth> I should find out about these Agents
19:51:53 <longtomjr_> there is some clipping on the russian page
19:52:07 <frosch123> andythenorth: that page and 3 similar ones remained on the "where to put this"-list until the very end :p
19:53:23 <longtomjr_> " Server got itself in trouble " Love that 500 message
19:53:25 <LordAro> shouldn't it be en/File:foo, rather than File:en/foo ?
19:53:27 <longtomjr_> using that from now on
19:53:52 <frosch123> LordAro: no :) it's one wiki, not multiple wikis
19:54:23 <frosch123> we had the same discussion with categories yesterday
19:54:34 <TrueBrain> LordAro: frosch123 says it is Category/Language/<subpage>
19:54:52 <TrueBrain> pretty sure it doesn't matter in the end :)
19:55:29 <TrueBrain> it will be File/en/foo btw, without the :
19:55:34 <TrueBrain> but .. File isn't done yet :D
19:56:26 <TrueBrain> LordAro: this order makes most sense on disk btw; no category -> Page, and off you go :)
19:57:27 <frosch123> it's also how you link them in the wiki source: [[File:en/image.png]]
20:01:10 <TrueBrain> just because it is quicker to implement
20:01:19 <TrueBrain> it is, however, not userfriendly :P
20:01:30 <longtomjr_> Will github be the backing data source?
20:01:46 <frosch123> yes, and also the massedit interface :)
20:01:58 <longtomjr_> That makes life a lot easier
20:02:29 <longtomjr_> Will there still be editing on the wiki?
20:02:42 <longtomjr_> and then a bot that commits it to gh?
20:02:52 <frosch123> longtomjr_: look at how bananas works
20:02:52 <TrueBrain> yes, but mainly as I was not allowed to only allow that via GitHub :P
20:03:15 <FLHerne> andythenorth: I think someone just invented the terminology and decided to write it down on the wiki :p
20:03:28 <FLHerne> Like the bloody junctions
20:03:52 <longtomjr_> frosch123, which part of bananas?
20:03:57 <frosch123> FLHerne: but the deadlock-free-ness of the junctions was proven with the petri-net-proving software of the page author
20:03:58 <FLHerne> About half the content is just random ideas that Joe Blogg had on a Sunday afternoon
20:05:00 <longtomjr_> That looks pretty nice :)
20:05:14 <TrueBrain> it pretty much solved a huge bus-factor
20:05:16 <longtomjr_> because he is an orangutang
20:05:24 <longtomjr_> (or however you spell that)
20:05:39 <TrueBrain> we banned the language nazis long ago in this channel, no worries
20:06:41 <longtomjr_> Btw, really cool what you got done with the wiki in such a small amount of time
20:07:43 <longtomjr_> also, does git add more history features than something like mediawiki, or less?
20:09:15 <frosch123> mediawiki has history per page. but no correlation between pages
20:10:02 <longtomjr_> To late in the evening for me to try and figure out what that ends up meaning in practice.
20:10:20 <frosch123> that also carries over to reverting and deleting things
20:11:11 <frosch123> so on mediawiki you can mess with the history of a single file, without the rest noticing
20:11:33 <frosch123> but similar, if you do mass-edits, like replace words on multiple pages, those changes are independent
20:12:04 <longtomjr_> I mean you can still do that with git if you just end up going through the truewiki editor, so it only shows the file spesific history?
20:14:35 <frosch123> yeah, but if you want to remove vandalism from a page by rewriting history, you affect the revision hashes of the whole repository, so of all pages
20:15:12 <longtomjr_> This is crazy, there is so much less code than what I expected.
20:16:37 <TrueBrain> now check the PHP version :P
20:16:54 <longtomjr_> frosch123, mmmm yep. A PR based workflow is probably too much for wiki editing
20:16:57 <TrueBrain> (referring to the mediawiki code :P)
20:17:03 <frosch123> right, did someone compare the loc of wikitextparser+wikihtml with the php rendered linked from that rust-rant?
20:17:32 <frosch123> longtomjr_: esp. without previews :p
20:18:14 <TrueBrain> wikitextparser: 3k, wikitexthtml: 3k (including ply), truewiki: 300
20:18:36 <TrueBrain> mediawiki is not far off there
20:18:47 <TrueBrain> so it is pretty comparible tbh, in LoC terms
20:18:47 <longtomjr_> TrueBrain, yep. When I saw it is 40% CSS, I thought "Why is there such a crap-ton of css". Turns out that there just is not a lot of code, this is amazing. Might end up being a way more maintainable sollution than mediawiki in the end.
20:19:10 <TrueBrain> for OpenTTD for sure it will be a whole lot more maintainable
20:19:19 <longtomjr_> Yep, I mean for ottd
20:19:35 <TrueBrain> yeah, I am 100% sure that the total package we have here is more maintainable
20:19:47 <TrueBrain> especially with the data on GitHub, that alone is a big win
20:19:50 <longtomjr_> I were quite sceptical when you said that it might just be easier to build it, than maintain it.
20:20:07 <longtomjr_> (easier to build an alternative vs maintaining mediawiki)
20:20:07 <TrueBrain> I was too till I found wikitextparser :P
20:20:39 <TrueBrain> storage is always (nearly) free :)
20:20:48 <TrueBrain> but everyone being able to manipulate it, it just epic win
20:21:00 <TrueBrain> mass edits on mediawiki .... well ... I think nobody wants to do that :P
20:21:17 <frosch123> longtomjr_: well, our wiki reaches 50% of the lfs quota of the free plan :)
20:21:42 <TrueBrain> but, tbh, the only reason I considered truewiki viable, is because we already done all the difficult shit with bananas-api and bananas-frontend-web
20:21:47 <TrueBrain> it really is mostly a copy/paste from there
20:22:13 <TrueBrain> we have the experience, we have the knowledge ..
20:22:20 <TrueBrain> and we know the concept works
20:22:37 <longtomjr_> This is really cool and exciting! Anyways, I need to go to bed now. Thanks a lot for the effort and really looking forward to see this progress!
20:23:01 <TrueBrain> sleep well, and tnx :)
20:23:54 <longtomjr_> might be able to help if the opportunity arises, but atm I am getting pretty end of year kinds of tired from my day job coding. I still want to have a look at that bananas grf upload UI and see how long it will take for me to break.
20:24:22 <TrueBrain> help is always welcome, but enjoying life is more important :)
20:28:25 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd
21:21:06 <frosch123> joy, <gallery> also works with image names without leading File: or Image: :)
21:21:40 <TrueBrain> yeah, I kinda ignore that too I tihink
21:23:24 <frosch123> i just fix the one case in mediawiki, then i do not have to adjust my script :)
21:23:40 <TrueBrain> I did that many times :P
21:23:41 <frosch123> learned that from you
21:24:17 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd
21:36:29 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd
21:38:32 <frosch123> damn, i hate it when my software does something right, that i did not intend and only notice when i break it
21:45:07 *** cyberjunkie[m] has quit IRC
21:45:08 *** grossing has joined #openttd
21:45:18 *** reldred has joined #openttd
21:45:18 *** y2kboy23 has joined #openttd
21:47:10 *** dwfreed has joined #openttd
21:48:23 *** cyberjunkie[m] has joined #openttd
21:50:27 *** cawal[m] has joined #openttd
21:53:20 *** gretel[m] has joined #openttd
21:55:23 *** robert[m] has joined #openttd
21:59:02 *** patricia[m] has joined #openttd
22:00:55 <frosch123> it's also amazing how bugs sometimes only affect a single page :)
22:02:32 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i pushed an update. fixing a ton of image links
22:17:21 <TrueBrain> Nice! Will check it out tomorrow
22:17:42 <TrueBrain> Considering launching this on staging, so we have a bit more stable testing ground
22:18:02 <TrueBrain> Need to add GitHub checkout for that .. bit of copy paste :D
22:25:35 <frosch123> hmm, i am tempted to change the ambox/check templates so that the conversion works
22:25:46 <frosch123> not sure what is less work... change before or after conversion
22:41:13 <TrueBrain> What ever floats your boat :)
22:51:01 <TrueBrain> We also need a way to archive the current wiki .. hmm
22:51:17 <TrueBrain> Export MySQL and dockerize it, I guess
22:54:20 <TrueBrain> The break-glass archive :p
23:00:17 *** arikover has joined #openttd
23:04:15 <andythenorth> lol 3 days so far to draw 1 ship :D
23:07:07 <TrueBrain> As long as it is going to be pretty!
23:10:14 <frosch123> is that a positive thing to say? draw for 3 days, so it will be pretty for 3 days, and then delete it?
23:14:22 <andythenorth> as long as it gets done
23:14:38 <andythenorth> ships are the most time consuming thing, more than industry
23:14:55 <andythenorth> they have all these extra crappy bits, like masking out the hull when they load
23:15:03 <andythenorth> and drawing a wake for when they're moving
23:25:00 <TrueBrain> Don't draw crap plz
23:29:01 <andythenorth> can automate crap
23:48:23 <TrueBrain> Normal people call going it to the toilet, but okay
23:48:44 <TrueBrain> That was a poorly constructed sentence, lol
continue to next day ⏵
