IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-10-20
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01:43:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i think forum caught a case of spambot
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05:26:30 <rptr_> where a list of vehicles and year they're available? i joined some server with nothing available..
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09:34:40 <LordAro> rptr_: the base set has some vehicles that never expire (not many, but some)
09:34:50 <LordAro> can't apeak for newgrfs though
09:34:58 <LordAro> i imagine there's a list on the wiki
09:35:07 <LordAro> if not, perhaps you should make one!
10:12:22 <TrueBrain> that scared him enough to run :P :D
10:42:38 <Eddi|zuHause> that list cannot exist, because it depends on which newgrfs you combine
10:43:42 <LordAro> list of the vanilla vehicles
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11:46:46 <TrueBrain> anything can exist if you set your mind to it
11:47:23 <andythenorth> enduring happiness?
11:47:28 * andythenorth thinks of nonsense
11:48:08 <TrueBrain> you came to the right channel!
11:52:11 * LordAro fixing test failures by deleting tests
11:52:23 <TrueBrain> like a good boy you are :)
12:45:11 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: does that involve things requiring solutions to the halting problem?
12:47:52 <TrueBrain> it even holds for the Ether
12:49:34 <Eddi|zuHause> you sound like one of those (usually right wing) cospiracy theorists that believe hitler created UFOs and escaped to the moon
12:51:19 * andythenorth listens to Van Halen
12:51:24 <andythenorth> and avoids writing some html
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13:23:17 <andythenorth> funny how sensitive graphviz is
13:23:31 <andythenorth> renaming 'Lye' to 'Caustic Soda' makes a mess of the FIRS layout
13:23:42 <andythenorth> even though nothing changes in the graph
13:23:47 <andythenorth> except the string
13:23:54 * andythenorth renamed it back to Lye :P
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13:35:41 <Eddi|zuHause> "caustic soda" sounds dangerous
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13:38:57 <andythenorth> I wouldn't eat it
13:46:28 <Eddi|zuHause> it sounds like a drink, honestly :)
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14:29:54 <TrueBrain> these things are so far in the edge-cases, it is not even funny anymore :P
14:38:03 <rptr_> you could make a brexit firs
14:38:15 <rptr_> chicken farm -> chlorinate -> ship abroad
14:38:32 <Eddi|zuHause> did brexit actually happen?
14:39:16 <rptr_> they will give a date next year sometime, for when they'll give the next date, etc...
14:41:11 <TrueBrain> on one hand we have a president that says he is going to leave the country if he loses, on the other hand we have a country that wants to leave but never does .. the world is a strange place ..
14:41:25 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Technically yes, but we've agreed to pretend it didn't until January
14:41:26 <TrueBrain> "a president" -> "a president in the world"
14:46:26 <andythenorth> rptr_ it's like you read my mind
14:46:43 <andythenorth> currently I have a port that accepts Food and Chlorine
14:46:49 <andythenorth> it's all just a bit too brexit
14:46:59 <andythenorth> spent 2 days trying to change it
14:47:06 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause Brexit is done
14:50:13 <Timberwolf> rptr_: "New internal border in New Flenfingbridge! Trucks must travel via Munhattan Port Of Entry"
14:52:22 <andythenorth> oh the game lolz possibilities are endless
14:52:29 <andythenorth> I wish I still made political satire
14:52:44 <andythenorth> although it would be like shooting fish in a barrel
14:52:56 <andythenorth> usually satire moves reality 2 paces left
14:53:06 <andythenorth> but in this case, just reproduce reality, job done
14:57:27 <rptr_> who is leaving what country? trump?
15:04:49 <TrueBrain> rptr_: he said that if he loses, he is going to leave the US. But like so many things he says ..... don't assume he was telling a truth :)
15:05:49 <TrueBrain> and he most likely denies he ever said it ... because recordings are made by the media, and you know how he feels about the media :)
15:06:46 <glx> what he said about hacking was pure lol
15:09:59 <TrueBrain> riiigggggghhhhhhttttt ... guess my old company is now out of business! That is both a positive thing (no more hacking) and a negative :P
15:10:11 <TrueBrain> (I worked for an Cyber Security firm :) )
15:26:41 <TrueBrain> ugh, I even find errors in templates like "this page needs translating"
15:26:48 <TrueBrain> like nobody checked the output of any of these templates :P
15:31:00 <TrueBrain> "This page will be translated by Bennievv soon in Dutch" - 18:11, 15 February 2012
15:34:52 <LordAro> how often are you just "fixing" the actual wiki content, rather than adding workarounds in the conversion?
15:35:57 <TrueBrain> depends on my mood and the "problem"
15:36:12 <TrueBrain> well, I don't add workarounds, tbh
15:36:16 <TrueBrain> I either ignore it in comparing
15:36:21 <TrueBrain> or it really is a bug :D
15:36:55 <TrueBrain> the wiki history shows you how often I find something really worth fixing :)
15:37:07 <LordAro> eh, i'd have to actually look at that :p
15:37:50 <TrueBrain> omg, you have to do some effort to answer your question? NOOOOOOO
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15:42:51 <TrueBrain> LordAro: but in the broad view, it more often is an edge-case of the parsing/rendering that is an issue. Next are template issues I fix. After that are mediawiki bugs
15:42:59 <TrueBrain> like it tends to close <li>s in the wrong order, and shit like that
15:43:36 <TrueBrain> what remains are things that are irrelevant after the migration frosch is doing (capital issues, talk pages, namespaces, etc)
15:44:00 <TrueBrain> well, and shit like this:
15:44:00 <TrueBrain> -<span class="mw-headline" id="forbid_trains_and_ships_from_making_90.c2.b0_turns">
15:44:00 <TrueBrain> +<span class="mw-headline" id="forbid_trains_and_ships_from_making_90.26deg.3b_turns">
15:44:09 <TrueBrain> I aint going to fix that, as I will just "slugify" the ids
15:44:15 <TrueBrain> instead of what-ever this is mediawiki tries to
15:45:53 <TrueBrain> LordAro: why you ask?
15:46:28 <LordAro> e.g. i'd probably just delete the page you mentioned above
15:46:47 <TrueBrain> I am not going to delete pages :P
15:46:49 <TrueBrain> that is frosch's job
15:47:32 <TrueBrain> my job is to make the best possible renderer ;)
15:47:52 <TrueBrain> (and make our wiki slightly better while at it)
16:10:52 <TrueBrain> [Advanced Roundabout] Horizontal alignment set to both 'none' and 'center'
16:10:56 <TrueBrain> so many of these kind of warnings :P
16:12:05 <FLHerne> Please just delete all the mega-junction articles :p
16:12:18 <TrueBrain> bribe frosch about that :)
16:12:34 <FLHerne> (seriously, most of them are just some stupid impractical thing that someone thought looked pretty)
16:12:57 <TrueBrain> it is a wiki; you are free to edit them into oblivion :)
16:15:52 <TrueBrain> take a page like Alberth/Contracts .. every block of code is missing 1 line in the <pre> block .. yet nobody seemed to care :P
16:21:50 <TrueBrain> mediawiki triest to close a <td />
16:22:31 <TrueBrain> pretty sure who-ever wrote this was thinking <tr/> and <td/> was the way to go
16:22:43 <TrueBrain> what-ever .. garbage in / garbage out
17:28:42 <TrueBrain> our wiki really is a good testset .. I keep finding these odd bugs I otherwise never would have found
17:28:49 <TrueBrain> people using templates in arguments of templates .. like .. who does that?
17:41:38 <TrueBrain> okay, the first 50 pages are without (worth mentioning) diff .. going for the 100 ... will I make it ... (it is currently running while typing) .. 90 ... awh, 93 ... it was a good run
17:42:20 <TrueBrain> it is a false positive, bah :P
17:43:14 <TrueBrain> all pages starting with "A" pass :)
17:47:11 <TrueBrain> 85% pages seem to be rendering fine now; the ones that do not seems to be at least 2 bugs in the renderer :)
17:49:59 * andythenorth just remembered c-pre-processor nfo
17:50:03 <andythenorth> and variadic macros
17:50:12 <andythenorth> when is my therapy appointment?
17:56:22 <milek7_> I don't know what's worse, variadic macro spaghetti or boost-style template mess
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18:03:05 <Eddi|zuHause> combine both for better effect
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20:22:54 <TrueBrain> funny, our version of mediawiki supports something that shouldn't be supported :P
20:24:38 <TrueBrain> *{| \n |} isn't a valid list entry
20:24:45 <TrueBrain> (a list entry should be on a single line)
20:24:56 <TrueBrain> and their manual suggest to use <table> in those cases
20:25:03 <TrueBrain> yet .. it works in mediawiki :P
20:25:15 <TrueBrain> but parsers fail, because .. it is not valid syntax according to their own manual :P
20:25:21 <TrueBrain> I wonder if it still works in newer versions of mediawiki
20:25:42 <TrueBrain> * {| \n | Test \n |}, what does it do? :)
20:33:40 <TrueBrain> did I fuck up the table syntax?
20:33:55 <TrueBrain> without the list thingy, it is a table?
20:34:13 <TrueBrain> and you used any of the #*;: for a list? (not the silly utf-8 my client most likely printed?)
20:34:24 <TrueBrain> owh, lol . .darling, \n is a newline
20:34:45 <TrueBrain> no clue why that wasn't obvious :P
20:36:10 <TrueBrain> okay, so they no longer support it
20:36:11 <LordAro> without the list, it appears to disappear entirely
20:36:45 <TrueBrain> so it is just our version that renders it properly
20:36:53 <TrueBrain> which is annoying; as a lot of pages use that :P
20:37:19 <TrueBrain> thank you LordAro :)
20:37:48 <LordAro> we are a few versions behind, tbf :p
20:37:54 <LordAro> upgrading it is on my list of things to do...
20:38:37 <TrueBrain> "we" is your mediawiki you were testing with?
20:38:56 <TrueBrain> pretty sure it is more up-to-date than the OpenTTD-one :D
20:39:43 <LordAro> 1.31, vs 1.35 which was released a couple of weeks ago
20:40:58 <TrueBrain> you now get why I have been bitching about this, for, what, 4 years now? :P
20:42:01 <TrueBrain> owh, english is equally bad
20:42:37 <TrueBrain> and those are all invalid tables ... owh joy
20:43:02 <TrueBrain> in every language it is broken :P
20:59:10 <TrueBrain> LordAro: follow-up, what if the first char is a : ?
20:59:14 <TrueBrain> does that make any difference?
20:59:49 <TrueBrain> (still not going to support it, but good to know :D)
21:18:32 <TrueBrain> I finally also render the "main page" button in the language menu :P No clue why it is there, but I render it, so that is good, right? :D
21:22:36 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.0544871794872
21:22:54 <TrueBrain> so far a 95% hitrate on rendering (nearly) the same HTML
21:23:00 <TrueBrain> I think I am close to calling this :)
21:24:01 <TrueBrain> hmm .. I do render: <b><i></b></i>
21:24:03 <TrueBrain> that is not good :D
21:25:16 <TrueBrain> I do have to implement TOC and gallery-tag .. meh :P
21:25:43 <TrueBrain> first linting all other pages .. as I have been testing all pages with the A very well :P
22:38:09 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.0463414634146
22:44:56 <TrueBrain> frosch123: something for your conversion, if you can: sometimes links are "%23" instead of #, where # was really meant
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22:45:33 <TrueBrain> owh, nevermind, it is in the translation part
22:45:36 <TrueBrain> this will be fine, ignore :)
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22:46:23 <frosch123> well, on the good news: i can now migrate {{Tabs}} and other magic templates correctly :)
22:48:56 <frosch123> or more general: the script now knows which template parameters are pages or images, and can replace them
22:50:16 <TrueBrain> it is funny to see my renderer fixes more than a few bugs :D
22:50:24 <TrueBrain> newer mediawikis do the same, I imagine
22:50:29 <TrueBrain> but it means I am on the right track ;)
22:56:02 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.0390946502058
22:56:21 <TrueBrain> and so far none are bugs in the parser :P
22:57:13 <TrueBrain> I have to report it, as if he is anything like me, I would want to know
22:57:19 <TrueBrain> but .. it is getting a bit too much :P
22:58:57 <frosch123> can you add some more ' ?
22:59:33 <frosch123> i guess also add <pre> to the expected result :)
23:00:28 <TrueBrain> good call frosch123 , no clue why I did not :)
23:00:54 <TrueBrain> right, now lets parse all the pages, just to see how far it gets .. I ran A..C too many times now tonight :)
23:00:59 <TrueBrain> who knows what D and E hold!
23:01:00 <frosch123> i think #80 is invalid. what is it supposed to do for " ''' a '' b ''' c '' " ?
23:01:23 <TrueBrain> it opens with ''', it should close with '''
23:01:29 <TrueBrain> if an inner '' comes, it should first close ''
23:01:54 <TrueBrain> similar to the fact you expect ( ( a + b ) ) to be executed as ( a + b ) , before ( ( a + b ) )
23:01:56 <frosch123> i think <i> and <b> are not expected to nest correctly in html
23:02:12 <frosch123> i think there is a reason xhtml failed :)
23:02:22 <frosch123> andythenorth may know
23:02:56 <TrueBrain> how else do you make something bold and italic? :)
23:03:48 <TrueBrain> btw, the fix is adding a space in the right place for '''''
23:03:54 <TrueBrain> which is what I did on the wiki
23:04:05 <frosch123> that's not what i mean. i claim that " <b> bold <i> both </b> italic </i> " is valid html
23:04:09 <andythenorth> AIUI, xhtml failed because people didn't write it
23:04:18 <andythenorth> html5 was relatively empirical
23:04:23 <andythenorth> and relatively less idealised
23:04:34 <andythenorth> it surveyed somewhat what authors were actually doing
23:04:59 <andythenorth> distorted somewhat also by the usual big tech company influence on standards :P
23:05:03 <TrueBrain> frosch123: might be valid, but not the expected outcome :)
23:06:38 <TrueBrain> weirdly, if I flip bold/italic around in #80, it does do what I would expect
23:06:41 <TrueBrain> so pretty sure it is a legit bug :)
23:08:00 <TrueBrain> I did not expect the reverse to work .. as that starts with only 2 '
23:08:11 <TrueBrain> I would have thought it would terminate on the 3 ' of the bold-start
23:08:18 <TrueBrain> so there is already some code to do this correctly, I guess
23:08:25 <TrueBrain> but possibly it prefers one of the other
23:08:42 <frosch123> TrueBrain: so what does " ''' a '' b ''' c '' " do?
23:09:16 <TrueBrain> [Bold("''' a '' b '''"), Italic("'' b ''' c ''")]
23:09:18 <frosch123> i claim that five ''''' are supposed to swap both italic and bold, but whether <i> or <b> is output first does not matter
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23:10:48 <TrueBrain> hmm, that would be true if the objects themself also consider that .. let me check
23:11:16 <TrueBrain> ah, that is what my real issue is
23:11:20 <TrueBrain> wtp.get_bolds_and_italics()[1].text
23:11:31 <TrueBrain> if that would not have been the case, there wouldn't be an issue
23:13:19 <TrueBrain> added that to the ticket, as you are correct; the order of the nodes really doesn't matter, it is the fact ' are still part of the text :)
23:13:45 <frosch123> [[|alt]] <- where does that link to?
23:13:58 <TrueBrain> it is valid wikitext, stupid enough
23:13:59 <frosch123> and translators write that? :p
23:14:08 <TrueBrain> it happens due to templating, what I have observed
23:14:23 <TrueBrain> [[{{url}}|alt text]]
23:14:33 <TrueBrain> the language thing in the top does that on OpenTTD's wiki
23:14:58 <TrueBrain> LordAro: browsers fix EVERYTHING
23:15:13 <TrueBrain> well, no, mediawiki does this
23:15:21 <TrueBrain> as this is how I found out :) Mediawiki does "what you expect" :)
23:15:56 <LordAro> yeah, source is "fixed" too - it's not devtools normalising things (which it does do sometimes)
23:16:08 <TrueBrain> mediawiki balances all tags
23:16:13 <TrueBrain> if you don't close a table, it does it for you
23:16:17 <TrueBrain> it is pretty nice in those regards
23:17:18 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.089485458613
23:17:29 <TrueBrain> my error-rate is going up :( Not unexpected .. given I have to fix more wiki pages :P
23:19:12 <TrueBrain> a few legit bugs .. but most seems to be trivial things now
23:19:30 <TrueBrain> I am still amazed how many shit there is on our wiki, that helps testing the render :D
23:25:13 <TrueBrain> okay, he has a lot of code for the <b> <i> stuff :)
23:27:40 <TrueBrain> okay, if I first replace the bold, then the italic, it goes fine
23:27:58 <TrueBrain> you only end up with <i>text<b>text</i></b>
23:28:02 <TrueBrain> but .. it is not like I care about that :)
23:28:21 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.118095238095
23:39:34 <TrueBrain> <b>Bold<i>Italic</b>Not Bold</i> becomes in browser <b>Bold<i>Italic</i></b><i>Not Bold</i> btw frosch123 :) So browsers fix it for you if you don't anyway :)
23:39:53 <TrueBrain> so my only problem was that it showed '' after one of the two (can't remember which)
23:40:17 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.134601832276
23:40:28 <TrueBrain> 13% :o Well, a lot better than the 50% of yesterday :P
23:41:15 <TrueBrain> many are broken tables
23:41:26 <TrueBrain> and there is a strong disagreement when to use th and when td :P
23:42:28 <TrueBrain> hmm, template redirects don't always go as I want it to .. owh well, not the worst problem :)
23:43:21 <TrueBrain> should "strike" become "s" or "del" .. .hmm
23:43:35 <frosch123> never heard of "del"
23:44:32 <TrueBrain> Neither did I till 5 minutes ago :)
23:45:30 <frosch123> i think if you use <i> instead of <emph>, you also have to use <s> instead of <del>
23:46:02 <frosch123> b/i/s vs strong/emph/del
23:47:56 <frosch123> well, <b><strong>aesthetics</strong</b>...
23:48:18 <TrueBrain> strong is a valid HTML5 tag
23:48:19 <michi_cc> It appears to me that MW wikitext can be defined as: Anything is valid wikitext, no exceptions :p
23:48:49 <TrueBrain> I am only going to replace the HTML4 tags that are no longer valid in HTML5 :)
23:49:07 <TrueBrain> well, maybe we can do that in the conversion .. we will see :)
23:49:19 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: it is an endless shitshow, yes :P
23:49:46 <TrueBrain> the <tt> tag is the same btw ..
23:49:53 <TrueBrain> tempted to replace it with <pre> :P
23:50:13 <TrueBrain> <code> tag is annoying .. it doesn't keep newlines
23:50:17 <frosch123> andy knew when he had to leave :)
23:50:27 <TrueBrain> guess who ever made up <code> never programmed
23:50:51 <frosch123> or they used minimized js
23:52:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure it's his fault, then :p
23:52:57 <TrueBrain> style="float:{{{float}}}" <- mediawiki renders this .. it is so weird
23:54:22 <LordAro> what does it render as?
23:55:40 <Eddi|zuHause> how is that even a page title? someone failed at linking to actual wikipedia?
23:56:03 <TrueBrain> the page once did exist, but was trashed
23:56:47 <TrueBrain> hmm .. I have not been skipping pages that are in the Trash .. maybe I should :P
23:57:20 <TrueBrain> don't even know how you can see if a page is trashed on the web itself .. lol
23:57:52 <TrueBrain> no clue how I can tell that from looking at that page
23:58:38 <TrueBrain> it might be frosch's magic, now I think about that :)
23:58:46 <TrueBrain> so it might be manual :P That would explain :D
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