IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-10-21
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00:15:30 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.186891385768
00:15:46 <TrueBrain> so .. that is not bad :) Now to improve!
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00:38:15 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Telling you how to checkout and commit to OTTD with it?
00:39:01 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: i didn't actually look at the page
00:40:33 <FLHerne> That does seem broken
00:50:55 <TrueBrain> LordAro: the #{| is not valid, but :{| is it seems .. : is not only "list", but also "indent" .. ugh :P
00:51:13 <TrueBrain> which is a bit odd, as the rules strongly suggest {| has to start on a new line ..
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00:52:40 <TrueBrain> but fuck it, I am going to implement this now .. means I should, if I would be nice, revert a few pages too
00:54:21 <TrueBrain> time to find my bed; this is something for tomorrow :)
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02:27:50 <rptr_> hm. the "valuables from [X town] to [Y town]" subsidy, how does it work? i don't receive it
02:32:10 <Eddi|zuHause> subsidies have weird special cases
02:39:40 <rptr_> from X bank to Y bank works, but not from X bank to X town
02:39:59 <rptr_> and often there's "x bank to x town" which makes no sense
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12:50:30 <LordAro> today on Fun with LordAro: if(pPath[0] == '\0' || pPath == NULL){
12:50:49 <andythenorth> security questions
12:51:14 <andythenorth> quite vanilla sensible ones, but FML
12:51:27 <andythenorth> nowhere in my dreams of the perfect life did these feature twice per week
12:51:28 <TrueBrain> well, I am looking at diffs like
12:51:29 <TrueBrain> -autoclean_protected <months> </dd>
12:51:29 <TrueBrain> +autoclean_protected <months></dd>
12:51:33 <TrueBrain> not sure if that is any better
12:51:41 <andythenorth> I would rather do the security questions
12:52:05 <andythenorth> I hate hate hate other people's markup
12:54:52 <TrueBrain> I hate when people don't close tags :P
12:55:16 <TrueBrain> the problem with something like mediawiki is, they fix so much crap users put in, that they will never know it was crap, and never fix it
12:55:21 <TrueBrain> so it just adds and adds and adds
12:56:57 <TrueBrain> <td><b>test</td></b> <- owh mediawiki, you are cute :)
12:58:34 <TrueBrain> takes 8 minutes and 23 seconds currently to render all the pages (and compare them) on a single thread
12:59:15 <TrueBrain> slowest page is 4133ms (without caching and performance improvements etc)
12:59:19 <TrueBrain> the 32bpp "files" page :P
12:59:32 <TrueBrain> that is a huge jump :P
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12:59:59 <TrueBrain> only 10 take longer than a second
13:00:13 <LordAro> next one: char* func() { char foo[FILENAME_MAX]; ...; char* name = &foo[1]; return name; }
13:00:33 <TrueBrain> LordAro: about time to fire someone? :P
13:01:06 <TrueBrain> I hope that [1] is a typo, but okay :)
13:01:09 <TrueBrain> it is still horrible :P
13:01:27 <TrueBrain> so two huge mistakes in 1 function, w00p!
13:01:44 <TrueBrain> well, I always fancy stack corruptions, so yeah :)
13:01:55 <TrueBrain> Rust is really nice for this btw
13:01:57 <LordAro> wait, what's the mistake there? other than being a weird way of doing `foo + 1` ?
13:02:00 <TrueBrain> it won't allow that function to work, EVER
13:02:11 <TrueBrain> LordAro: returning a pointer to a stack variable?
13:02:23 <LordAro> yes, what's the other one?
13:02:38 <TrueBrain> not knowing C is 0-indexed :P
13:02:41 <LordAro> oh no, that's intentional
13:02:49 <TrueBrain> .... that is .. scary as fuck :P
13:02:55 <LordAro> cutting off the first character
13:03:03 <TrueBrain> but but ....but .. well, nevermind :)
13:03:25 <TrueBrain> but yeah, Rust has locality of variables very well backed into the language .. well, lifetime
13:03:46 <TrueBrain> there is a syntax in which you can do that function, but it requires the variable to go on the heap
13:03:46 <LordAro> it's following an (effective) `strrchr(foo, '/')`, so cuts off that '/'
13:04:11 <TrueBrain> I really fancy Rust for its memory correctness :)
13:04:44 <TrueBrain> that made me lookup if there is a Rust module for wikitext
13:04:46 <TrueBrain> the docs start with:
13:04:47 <TrueBrain> Wiki text is a format that follows the PHP maxim “Make everything as inconsistent and confusing as possible”
13:04:50 <TrueBrain> sounds about right :)
13:06:27 <TrueBrain> "In short: If you think you understand wiki text, you don't understand wiki text."
13:07:10 <TrueBrain> "Please don't use wiki text as a format for new applications."
13:07:17 <TrueBrain> guess we do have to convert everything to markdown after all :P
13:08:50 <LordAro> if (strchr(pText, '\"') != NULL || strchr(pText, ' ') || ... [ this if statement contains 12 strchrs on the same string] )
13:09:20 <TrueBrain> I see you are having fun :)
13:10:38 <andythenorth> I enjoy a good rant
13:12:12 <TrueBrain> for some reason I am a bit tempted to make the OpenTTD wiki into static HTML, upload to S3, and serve that for the not-logged-in people
13:12:21 <TrueBrain> it is now 9 minutes .. pretty sure I can halve that time with some fiddling
13:12:29 <TrueBrain> rebuilding the whole wiki in 5 minutes is not bad
13:12:36 <TrueBrain> I can multi-core it ..
13:12:41 <TrueBrain> pretty sure I can get it to like 1 or 2 minutes
13:12:47 <TrueBrain> hmmm ... something to consider :p
13:13:25 <andythenorth> TrueBrain can you write a tool to diff arbitrary contents against S3 and selectively upload?
13:13:45 <andythenorth> also versioned content, but 'latest' served in a stable path
13:14:11 <TrueBrain> well, diffing against S3 and uploading if changed is as expensive as just uploading :)
13:14:24 <TrueBrain> unless you consider mtime or filesize, it is of little gain
13:14:38 <andythenorth> but I haven't looked into it further
13:14:52 <TrueBrain> if you build it yourself, "aws s3 sync" is your friend
13:14:55 <TrueBrain> it checks, I believe, mtime
13:15:05 <andythenorth> I guess it's only 150MB so far
13:15:08 <andythenorth> for all docs I publish
13:15:27 <TrueBrain> but if I am done with the wiki and migrated email, I can help you out with these kind of things :P First .. the old server needs to be migrated away :)
13:15:39 <TrueBrain> now lunch .. damn, hour late .. oops
13:16:12 * andythenorth had some kind of idea about hosting grf projects on our infra
13:16:22 <andythenorth> but nothing better than 'would it be nice?'
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13:40:37 <TrueBrain> someone disagree'd with the global one or something?
14:20:38 <andythenorth> cheese on toast for lunch?
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15:05:32 <TrueBrain> that moment that you still manage to find an issue with the templating engine .. you would think I had seen all situations by now :P
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15:25:20 <TrueBrain> r/whooooooooooossshhh :P
15:28:19 <andythenorth> flying fast airplanes
15:57:22 <TrueBrain> ugh ... why do people do stupid shit :P
16:16:22 <FLHerne> Lunch is sausages, but I set my grill on fire :-(
16:20:09 <TrueBrain> do I dare to ask ... how?
16:24:58 <FLHerne> Well, I should (a) clean my grill pan more often and (b) not have thoughts like "oh, I wonder if this would work better like *that* <type type type>" while cooking
16:26:10 <andythenorth> FLHerne I answered infosec questions while making cheese on toast
16:26:27 <andythenorth> but I have got better at juggling shit due to having kids
16:26:30 <andythenorth> and an angry wife
16:26:39 <andythenorth> the second is an effective motivation :P
16:38:24 <TrueBrain> I like how some wikipages are fixed by a translator
16:38:27 <TrueBrain> but not in the english
16:38:33 <TrueBrain> this looks kinda good
16:38:47 <TrueBrain> Hu is the only language where it looks good
16:38:50 <TrueBrain> the rest ... clearly does not :P
16:39:59 <LordAro> i wouldn't go so far as saying it looks good
16:40:04 <LordAro> it looks better, sure...
17:19:08 <TrueBrain> right, ~2000 of the ~5000 pages checked
17:19:17 <andythenorth> thanks TrueBrain :)
17:19:30 <TrueBrain> less and less issues show up .. mostly templates were a bit wonky
17:20:07 <TrueBrain> time to run everything, see where I am at, while making dinner :)
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17:34:46 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.12736318408
17:34:52 <TrueBrain> 12% needs investigating :)
17:36:31 <andythenorth> I don't buy train books usually
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18:54:42 <frosch123> aw, someone pasted php escape chars again. logs are broken for today
18:55:46 <LordAro> who would do such a thing
18:56:52 <frosch123> a few weeks ago, i would have said that everything broken on the internet is probably written in php. but now i know that ruby is also an option
18:59:30 <TrueBrain> lol ... I have to remember that :D
19:00:17 <TrueBrain> nothing really special was said today .. wonder what it was :P
19:01:43 <TrueBrain> can't find that in the logs
19:03:00 <TrueBrain> frosch123: could it be that not all redirects are in redirects.json? For example, I am missing "Company", just to name one?
19:03:11 <FLHerne> LordAro: For #103, should I make a patch that just adds #fmt on/off in the right place, if you're too fed up with it?
19:03:23 <TrueBrain> frosch123: and I removed a page .. it was the only one with graphviz shit on it, so I just trashed it
19:03:37 <LordAro> FLHerne: i imagine i'll
19:03:56 <FLHerne> I don't like the idea, but the big-list approach does hurt readability too much IMO :-(
19:04:01 <LordAro> i imagine i'll get to it eventually
19:04:24 * LordAro getting a whole 2Mbps right now
19:04:47 <longtomjr_> wait is someone posting php escape chars and it is erasing all the irc logs?
19:05:22 <longtomjr_> or just not logging for a day or a while
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19:10:16 <andythenorth> also, on the broken front, there is Perl
19:10:25 <andythenorth> and I have written things in python, and they are probably broken
19:10:49 <TrueBrain> <br \> <- ha, dat is a new one :)
19:11:35 <longtomjr_> self closing br tag?
19:12:05 <LordAro> i've seen a few of those
19:12:09 <LordAro> they work fine, of course
19:12:31 <TrueBrain> well, they are now illegal on the wiki :P
19:12:52 <longtomjr_> Why is it using a backslash?
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19:17:45 <frosch123> TrueBrain: "Company" is lost because i can't handle pages that only differ in case for every stupid case
19:18:08 <frosch123> there are two pages "Transport Company" and "Transport company"
19:18:16 <frosch123> the former is a redirect to the latter
19:18:22 <frosch123> so later in the process i trash the former
19:18:25 <TrueBrain> I now just put all "pages not found" on ignore,so it is fine :)
19:18:40 <frosch123> but i arrive at "Company" earlier, see that it is ambiguous and trash it :p
19:19:27 <frosch123> but since i want to trash all redirects anyway (unless you give me a list of the top 100 externally linked pages), i do not bother :)
19:20:12 <TrueBrain> I will supply the list; but I still think we should trash them :)
19:20:22 <TrueBrain> okay, so the navtabs template is useless ..
19:20:31 <TrueBrain> shitty templates being shitty
19:21:00 <frosch123> ah, at least "Company" is in trash.json. so that part worked :)
19:22:07 <frosch123> [19:12] <longtomjr_> Why is it using a backslash? <- because it is user input
19:22:25 <longtomjr_> and that makes it evil?
19:22:49 <longtomjr_> Software would probable be better without users yep
19:23:37 <TrueBrain> frosch123: did you also check for unused templates?
19:23:45 <TrueBrain> my gut-feeling tells me there are tons :P
19:23:57 <frosch123> TrueBrain: yes, unreferenced templates, categories and images are trashed
19:24:06 <frosch123> but i don't think i pushed that yet
19:24:06 <TrueBrain> can you confirm "navtab" and friends are unused?
19:25:00 <TrueBrain> my grepping skills fail horribly
19:25:22 <frosch123> so it may still be unused :)
19:25:33 <andythenorth> I love watching a bonfire
19:26:28 <TrueBrain> ah, that would explain why my grepping failed :)
19:26:35 <frosch123> ah, my script does not yet trash it, since i do not evaluate transitivity
19:26:54 <frosch123> it's used in other unused templates :)
19:31:40 <TrueBrain> okay, I think I fixed all the pages that prevented rendering
19:31:49 <TrueBrain> 9 minutes to check if I am correct :D
19:34:26 <TrueBrain> @calc 5000 / (9 * 60)
19:34:26 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 9.25925925926
19:34:38 <TrueBrain> @calc 9 * 60 / 5000
19:34:53 <TrueBrain> 100ms average render time .. with 4+ second ones .. that is a lot better than I expected honestly
19:36:08 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I am locally caching all wiki pages (as the API can be a bit slow :P), and check recent-changes to see what pages to invalidate .. it works surprisingly well
19:36:16 <TrueBrain> the server-time is only slightly behind
19:38:47 <TrueBrain> 1 (!) page uses #imagelink
19:39:14 <TrueBrain> deprecated and archived
19:39:17 <TrueBrain> right .. what was it doing
19:40:05 <TrueBrain> yet another other-language implementation
19:40:53 <frosch123> deprecated since 1.14 :)
19:41:52 <TrueBrain> I assume "Modèles/Fr" is in your trash list?
19:41:59 <frosch123> hmm. my script needs to learn "link=" then
19:47:08 <TrueBrain> okay, one more attempt .. pam pam pammmm
19:48:35 <frosch123> TrueBrain: no, it's not. but there is something other wrong in my code...
19:49:24 <TrueBrain> or maybe it is useful
19:50:02 <frosch123> but i did not trash it
19:50:02 <TrueBrain> but I fixed the #imagelink .. was easier .. :P
19:50:21 <TrueBrain> yes, merging there makes sense :)
19:54:55 <TrueBrain> around 300 Pages fail validation; seems to be mostly random bits and pieces. And 300 templates fail rendering properly .. pretty sure that is something I overlooked :)
19:56:07 <TrueBrain> no link, time to delete that page :)
20:00:48 * andythenorth reads openttd reddit
20:11:23 <frosch123> you are lacking the advantages of being an employee :) the kununu page of my old company is one of the most entertaining pages for me
20:27:00 <Wolf01> I don't think I'll manage to keep my eyes open for another hour
20:28:14 <TrueBrain> so ... get some sleep?
20:28:55 <Wolf01> But then I'll get up at 3AM and that is not good
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20:41:45 <FLHerne> Was the idea to stop complaints by making it impossible to even imagine the game being balanced?
20:42:35 <andythenorth> game is so balanced
20:43:02 <andythenorth> I should stop playing tanks
20:43:06 <andythenorth> think I'm addicted
20:43:32 <longtomjr_> andythenorth, about that upload issue that you mentioned with grf.farm
20:43:48 <longtomjr_> is the issue that you are publishing the docs for every version?
20:49:01 <andythenorth> the issue is that if I write an uploader client, it will need to determine what to upload
20:49:13 <andythenorth> currently I use AWS browser interface manually
20:49:33 <longtomjr_> to upload the docs?
20:52:04 <longtomjr_> It might not be too difficult to create a CI pipeline to build and publish the docs when you tag a commit?
20:53:15 <longtomjr_> Dunno if I am understanding the issue though.
20:53:42 <andythenorth> yes it could be done with GH actions
20:54:13 <andythenorth> so it could be done
20:54:38 <andythenorth> mostly I am concerned about paying bandwidth for AWS uploads
20:55:02 <andythenorth> I don't understand the cost structure on AWS, it's a full time £75k / year job to use AWS
20:55:49 <longtomjr_> Figuring out how much something costs in aws amounts to doing what you need to do, and look at the bill, hoping you can avoid that second morgage
20:56:34 <longtomjr_> Is the docs in a built form already on github? (sorry I cannot see that repo you linked)
20:57:04 <TrueBrain> private repos, tssk
20:57:18 <andythenorth> oh why is it private?
20:57:26 <TrueBrain> because you didn't make it public?
20:57:43 <TrueBrain> door, meet andythenorth , andythenorth meet door
20:58:21 <TrueBrain> okay, 25% of the pages are sorted .. just 75% more to go \o/
20:58:34 <longtomjr_> at least I can play with the svg anamation that github has for 404 pages. (or whatever frontend black maginc they use)
20:58:56 <andythenorth> the repo does not contain the built /dist dir
20:59:07 <andythenorth> but the Makefile is stupidly simple
21:00:28 <longtomjr_> I will chat more about this tomorrow. I think there should be a nice way of solving this.
21:00:50 <longtomjr_> final question, do you currently upload the full /dist dir every time you update the docs?
21:01:07 <longtomjr_> (sorry I need to go to bed now)
21:02:02 <andythenorth> currently I selectively upload manually
21:02:08 <andythenorth> because I know what has changed
21:02:13 <longtomjr_> aaah the issue is if you were using something else
21:02:18 <andythenorth> but logging in to AWS manually is boring
21:02:23 <andythenorth> I wanted to automate it
21:02:37 <andythenorth> either a local script with IAM user, or a GH action with some kind of AWS key
21:03:24 <TrueBrain> and you need an IAM user with no console access :P
21:04:02 <longtomjr_> anyways, I have to get some sleep now. o/
21:04:05 <andythenorth> manually uploading is not a big chore
21:04:18 <andythenorth> but not understanding AWS (and similar) limits how well I can do my day job
21:05:10 <frosch123> truebrain's page percentages are just like andy's horse percentages
21:05:24 <TrueBrain> frosch123: yup :) Different passes :)
21:05:27 <frosch123> they go up and down every day, when the scale changes
21:05:39 <TrueBrain> @calc 77 / (2710 * 54)
21:05:39 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.000526171928386
21:05:47 <TrueBrain> @calc 77 / (2710 + 54)
21:05:47 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.0278581765557
21:05:51 <TrueBrain> that number is going down at least :P
21:06:43 <TrueBrain> for some reason there are READMEs on the wiki ..
21:06:57 <TrueBrain> guess clicking to GitHub is too difficult or what-ever
21:08:37 <frosch123> though the website/about page is not a copy, but a suggestion :)
21:10:56 <andythenorth> this is so nice to watch
21:11:13 * andythenorth just likes seeing things burn
21:11:33 <andythenorth> when I did the dev section of wiki, I wanted to delete soooooo much
21:11:50 <TrueBrain> oeh, someone made a HTML5 table .. no closing </tr>
21:11:58 <frosch123> andythenorth: is it okay to label "long pages rambling about how to change the economy and the game entirely" as "essays"?
21:12:00 <TrueBrain> no clue why they didn't use {| |}
21:12:31 <frosch123> is there a better word? it should not be offensive, and authors should happily sort their future pages into the same category
21:15:02 <andythenorth> frosch123 delete?
21:15:13 <andythenorth> they can ramble on forums
21:15:25 <andythenorth> or you think it will inevitably just re-grow?
21:16:17 <andythenorth> frosch123 Thought Leadership :D
21:16:44 <frosch123> andythenorth: no, that does not work. if you know how people abused the wiki in only the last year... when people want something on the wiki, they will shoehorn it in. it's better to give them a nice folder, where they happily put their stuff into. that way people interested in that are happy, and people not interested, can easily ignore it
21:17:39 <andythenorth> Thought Leadership then
21:17:49 <frosch123> you have to provide a shed for the coal, so people do not put it into the gold safe
21:18:08 <andythenorth> Future Possibilities
21:19:05 <frosch123> my senior ceo (approaching 70) answers employee questions every few months, usually with warm nice words without implications
21:19:32 <frosch123> i am excited how he will answer the "IT ruined email for everyone" question this time :p
21:20:41 <frosch123> aw, i am awful.. he's only 63
21:23:54 <TrueBrain> sometimes my code confuses me .. I have a <pre> I do not understand where it is coming from :D
21:24:17 <frosch123> empty line with single space?
21:24:24 <TrueBrain> owh, wait, mediawiki added it
21:24:37 <andythenorth> I never mastered it
21:25:10 <TrueBrain> my renderer does it better \o/ :D
21:26:22 <frosch123> ah \n at end of template :)
21:26:28 <FLHerne> frosch123: I like essays
21:27:04 <FLHerne> tbh, I quite like reading the essays about how to change the game entirely, so long as they aren't angry that no-one else agrees
21:27:57 <frosch123> nice, i'll use "Essays" then :)
21:28:58 <FLHerne> I suppose 'manifesto' might work, but probably not general enough to cover everything of that kind
21:31:58 * andythenorth wonders what C2 wiki calls them
21:32:04 <andythenorth> probably just every page is like that
21:34:26 <andythenorth> how about 'blogs' :P
21:35:14 <frosch123> i also sorted "newgrf utopia" into the category
21:37:35 <TrueBrain> hmm .. I broke "something"
21:38:22 <TrueBrain> when you revert, cache is not updated correctly :P
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21:45:14 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 0.133333333333
21:45:25 <frosch123> 13% failed invitations
21:46:35 <TrueBrain> I broke something horribly, and I cannot find what :P French language bar is .. boem :P
21:59:14 <TrueBrain> right, I am at the N of the alphabet ..
22:00:22 <TrueBrain> you are forgetting non-latin :P
22:06:43 <TrueBrain> so stats for today: down to 8 minutes rendertime
22:06:45 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.888888888889
22:06:55 <TrueBrain> that is a nice improvement by doing nothing except making pages better
22:07:04 <TrueBrain> @calc 473 / (5160 / 69)
22:07:09 <TrueBrain> @calc 473 / (5160 + 69)
22:07:09 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.0904570663607
22:07:17 <TrueBrain> 9% of the pages still need my attention
22:07:23 <TrueBrain> of which over 50% is still templates
22:07:36 <TrueBrain> euh, no .. I have been doing that math wrong
22:07:41 <TrueBrain> @calc 473 / (5160 + 69 + 473)
22:07:41 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.0829533497019
22:07:50 <andythenorth> Horse 99% complete
22:08:04 <TrueBrain> 5160 pages are equal, 69 pages I have ack'd the difference, and I won't be fixing it
22:08:16 <TrueBrain> so ... really close now .. "just" 473 ..
22:08:32 <TrueBrain> so annoying to figure out if the user was doing stupid shit, or the render made a boo-boo :P
22:08:37 <andythenorth> will you be done before I get Horse 100%
22:08:52 <TrueBrain> will Horse be done before the weekend?
22:09:37 <TrueBrain> there is a page that tells me this: @@ -71,1725 +71,639 @@
22:09:41 <TrueBrain> that should scare you
22:10:30 <TrueBrain> I add 2 chars to the page, and the diff is gone \o/
22:10:40 <frosch123> highlighting is usually disabled at 5k loc
22:11:27 <TrueBrain> this file is 30k loc :)
22:11:37 <TrueBrain> one huge-ass diff :P
22:17:08 <TrueBrain> lol .. wikitextparser makes a link from the http inside a link
22:17:14 <TrueBrain> so you get <a href="<a href="... :D
22:26:55 <TrueBrain> I FIXED IT! I AM A HERO!
22:31:40 <andythenorth> wonder what happens if I set in-game probability of an industry to 0?
22:32:17 <frosch123> i think that's the case for oil wells
22:33:42 <andythenorth> if I set half of industries to 0
22:33:48 <andythenorth> I probably get spammed by all the others :P
22:45:33 <Eddi|zuHause> the total number of industries on the map should be the same
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