IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-10-19
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16:05:09 <andythenorth> FIRS used to adjust those
16:05:14 <andythenorth> then I removed it as out-of-scope
16:05:19 <andythenorth> but they are mad
16:05:47 <longtomjr_> should be at least 25% /s
16:08:48 <Timberwolf> Heh. The "if my pile of coal isn't picked up by a brand new train capable of 100mph I'm not going to be happy" was always the one that got me.
16:09:21 <longtomjr_> Ratings makes more sense from a pax perspective
16:10:15 <longtomjr_> JGR added some features to his pack where waiting times were more tolerant the bigger the station is (and the station capacity goes up)
16:10:28 <longtomjr_> Another one that makes bulk cargo happier to stand around
16:14:19 <Timberwolf> Shame you can't get at the station variables from a custom rating callback, would allow for making some eyecandy tiles like parcels offices and waiting rooms actually useful.
16:14:53 <Timberwolf> Didn't the Sid Meier games have some element of building things like station hotels? (I only played RRT2, and that was a long time ago)
16:15:07 <longtomjr_> Ah, like tile with benches vs a tile without will have better station rating results or something?
16:15:20 <longtomjr_> and dedicated waiting room tiles
16:15:39 <Timberwolf> That sort of thing, yeah - I guess you'd also need to mess about with maintenance costs to balance them.
16:18:30 <longtomjr_> Is it currently possible to change the maintenance cost for different station tiles?
16:18:43 <Timberwolf> Don't think so. although I've not looked in depth,.
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20:38:34 <frosch123> the M word! on our wiki...
20:40:20 <TrueBrain> r'(\d+)?.(\d+)?(e\d+)?|(\d+)e\d+'
20:42:41 <frosch123> looks like you are working on pyphp
20:42:57 <frosch123> is that the regex for empty() ?
20:48:24 <TrueBrain> well, there is a bug in that regex:
20:48:24 <TrueBrain> r'[+-]?\d*[.]\d*(e[+-]\d+)?|\d+e[+-]?\d+'
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20:48:29 <TrueBrain> and it just picks up floats :)
20:49:16 <frosch123> i would have added [Ee] for the case-sensitivity
20:50:17 <frosch123> ah, you are one of the [.] people
20:50:31 <TrueBrain> but I googled what a "float regex" is
20:50:37 <TrueBrain> and they suggested (strongly) to use [.] over .
20:50:49 <TrueBrain> so .. I was like .. yeah, that works too :P
20:50:53 <frosch123> yes :p but there is \.
20:51:11 <TrueBrain> I never knew [.] also worked :)
20:51:25 <TrueBrain> hmm .. think my client ate a \
20:51:37 <TrueBrain> I have been trying to write \ .
20:51:58 <TrueBrain> I was not confusing [.] for . (without slash :P)
20:52:03 <TrueBrain> there is a real difference there :D
20:57:19 <frosch123> i think i had to use [.] on solaris, since \. did not work
20:58:22 <TrueBrain> Warning: Interpreted as (ceil 1)/3, not ceil(1/3), as you might expect
20:58:28 <TrueBrain> I love if the specs already say: WHAT THE FUCK
20:58:34 <TrueBrain> "ceil" is an unary operator
21:01:09 <frosch123> most interpreters are not standard-compliant on that detail
21:04:27 <TrueBrain> I love the Navtabs vs Navtab
21:04:35 <TrueBrain> but it at least linted through my renderer, I remember
21:04:48 <TrueBrain> so there is nothing syntax-wise wrong with it, I think
21:06:16 <frosch123> it's the only one with templates inside #functions
21:07:07 <TrueBrain> the renderer first resolves all templates, before it starts to do logic
21:07:16 <TrueBrain> which works surprisingly well :P
21:10:18 <TrueBrain> hmm .. docs say "1/2 round 0" should be 1
21:10:30 <TrueBrain> Python says round(0.5, 0) is 0
21:11:09 <TrueBrain> in Python2 it was 1, 0.5
21:11:40 <TrueBrain> Python 3's way (called "round half to even" or "banker's rounding") is considered the standard rounding method these days, though some language implementations aren't on the bus yet.
21:11:43 <TrueBrain> I love stack overflow
21:12:16 <TrueBrain> should I "fix" that or just accept it ...
21:12:23 <TrueBrain> unlikely anyone ever runs into this, I guess
21:12:49 <TrueBrain> it also has "-0" .. I also not going to do that :P
21:13:34 <frosch123> never heard of banker's rounding... but i guess it's fair
21:15:55 <TrueBrain> it was also new to me :)
21:22:20 <frosch123> it's the same as in the float
21:23:13 <frosch123> but you can use it as operator :p 1e1e1 = 100
21:23:25 <frosch123> but you can use it as operator :p 1e(5-3) = 100
21:23:52 * andythenorth considers splitting ferrous and non-ferrous scrap
21:24:09 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i am blacklisting several french templates, which i'll just trash. maybe you should apply similar rules to certain expresions :)
21:24:23 <TrueBrain> I was considering just not implementing 'e' as operator
21:24:27 <TrueBrain> would anyone hate me for that?
21:24:47 <TrueBrain> just not implement, see how long it takes for anyone to notice :D
21:24:58 <frosch123> pretty sure anyone who understands what "e" is, would not use it that way :p
21:27:37 <frosch123> andythenorth: non-ferrious scrap can be either "valuables" or "toxic trash"
21:27:59 <andythenorth> 'alleged recyclables'
21:28:00 <frosch123> TrueBrain: he, i linked that :p
21:28:18 <TrueBrain> totally missed that
21:28:20 <frosch123> did you think i knew that :p
21:29:07 <frosch123> i don't mind that you missed it. but it's hillarious that you think i would knew that :)
21:29:10 <TrueBrain> okay, I am not going to track the type (int vs float)
21:29:22 <TrueBrain> I just let Python convert it when-ever, and make "1.0" -> "1" in the result
21:29:47 <TrueBrain> well, I don't know everything (SHOCKER), and I always hope others complement me where I do not :P
21:30:17 <TrueBrain> hihi, I made spaces optional: "truncabs-2.2" is valid
21:30:21 <TrueBrain> it isn't in mediawiki
21:30:32 <TrueBrain> let me fix it so I don't do anything this silly :P
21:30:47 <andythenorth> oof I need some cargo to dump into a bulk terminal industry
21:30:51 <andythenorth> from a mine or something
21:31:07 <andythenorth> it's just a production booster
21:31:28 <andythenorth> sodium sulfate is the logical choice, I already have the mine
21:31:46 <andythenorth> I wanted to use non-ferrous scrap, but graphviz makes an ugly chart
21:32:02 <andythenorth> the design of FIRS is mostly dictated by graphviz dot algorithm
21:35:35 <frosch123> it's the left-over material from mining
21:36:18 <frosch123> so, not exactly stuff you would export
21:38:03 <TrueBrain> argh, I want Python 3.9 .. I need dict | dict :P
21:38:10 <frosch123> ok, people use it as filler material in all kinds of stuff
21:38:23 <andythenorth> frosch123 mostly exported from Italy IRL or something
21:38:50 <frosch123> andythenorth: but it's a german-derived term...
21:39:00 <andythenorth> I should include it
21:39:09 <andythenorth> then do a feldspar feldbahn
21:40:07 <TrueBrain> 200 lines of code to implement the calculator of mediawiki .. surprisingly more than I expected .. even more as most is just boilerplate shit bla
21:40:27 <TrueBrain> but yacc is nice :)
21:46:36 <TrueBrain> -<span style="width:22.388059701493%;height:2px;background:#7fff00;float:left">
21:46:37 <TrueBrain> +<span style="width:22.388059701492537%;height:2px;background:#7fff00;float:left">
21:46:40 <TrueBrain> okay, that is funny :)
21:49:30 <TrueBrain> one of the more difficult things to do, is when to insert a <br>
21:49:35 <TrueBrain> but I have been wondering if we should insert them at all
21:49:45 <TrueBrain> it is rarely an improvement for the layout
21:49:53 <glx> so much precision in the width calculation
21:50:04 <andythenorth> <br> has been given semantics in html5
21:50:09 <andythenorth> I can no longer abuse it :(
21:50:20 <andythenorth> I used to use it endlessly for vertical spacing
21:50:21 <TrueBrain> I ..... have no clue how to process this piece of information
21:51:20 <TrueBrain> the thing with "\n\n\n\n" adding <br>s in the end result, it only makes it look good for certain browser widths
21:51:36 <TrueBrain> my client eats <br > ..
21:52:01 <TrueBrain> owh, it doesn't, it just shows me like it does
21:52:21 <TrueBrain> I only see the <br> stuff being used when people want that something starts below an image that is floating or what-ever
21:52:33 <TrueBrain> it is a bad habit ... so lets see what happens if we do not generate it :D
21:53:33 <TrueBrain> seemly my {{#expr: }} support seems to work ... not sure how to express how shocked I am :P
21:54:10 <TrueBrain> -<span style="color:red">
21:54:11 <TrueBrain> +<span style="color:green">
21:54:18 <TrueBrain> I guess not all calculations go as expected :)
22:07:31 <TrueBrain> okay, some form of lists in tables still fails; but that is not for today :D
22:09:26 <TrueBrain> that moment you parse some crappy input better than mediawiki :D \o/ :D
22:11:31 <frosch123> apply at wikimedia: for only 10% of their yearly donations, you port their site to python
22:11:49 <TrueBrain> :D That would be a very good deal :P
22:11:57 <TrueBrain> and I would reduce their hardware requirement with ... a HUGE factor
22:14:03 <TrueBrain> about 2/3rd of the pages are now (near) identical .. with (near) I mean, minus the bugs and other odd things I simply do not agree with :)
22:14:21 <TrueBrain> and most part seems to be the same bug .. something with tables and lists :)
22:15:48 <TrueBrain> I cannot believe how easy it was to build my own "parser" for their math stuff :D
22:16:08 <TrueBrain> does mean the whole library is now 1200 LOC
22:18:19 <TrueBrain> <div style="float:{{{float}}}">
22:18:25 <TrueBrain> guess the idea was to do {{{float}}}
22:21:00 <TrueBrain> btw frosch123 , I have been thinking about the editing part .. I am very tempted to make 2 containers: one that is used for viewing, stateless, and gets updated by a GitHub Actions like with BaNaNaS
22:21:12 <TrueBrain> the other container for editing, stateful, like bananas-api
22:21:29 <TrueBrain> after editing, like 5 minutes later, it pushes everything to GitHub
22:21:40 <TrueBrain> means when you are editing, you have live view of everything, but everything is a bit slower
22:21:51 <TrueBrain> and after ~5 minutes, your changes appear live for the rest of the world to see
22:22:08 <TrueBrain> means I can scale the "view" part easier
22:22:18 <TrueBrain> as the "edit" part cannot scale
22:22:32 <TrueBrain> also means the view will be like wiki.openttd.org, and the edit like ... preview.wiki.openttd.org ? :)
22:23:45 <frosch123> sounds like people would link to preview.wiki.openttd.org
22:23:53 <TrueBrain> we have done all this before, so it is mostly a copy/paste from bananas :)
22:24:08 <TrueBrain> hmm, fair point .. so it will be api.wiki.openttd.org
22:24:26 <TrueBrain> and the HTML pages can be on wiki.openttd.org, but it doesn't track anything static
22:24:40 <TrueBrain> so the POST are done to api.wiki.openttd.org, basically
22:25:11 <frosch123> anyway, preview is good. i liked the gollum way where you can switch tabs, and some js sends the edit content to the server for rendering
22:25:24 <TrueBrain> yeah, that for sure!
22:25:32 <TrueBrain> it will have a bit of Javascript :D
22:25:50 <TrueBrain> my only "issue" is that between Save and publishing there is a bit of time
22:25:57 <TrueBrain> will have to see how to deal with that in a proper way
22:26:10 <TrueBrain> but I like being able to scale the wiki in a proper way :D Would make a lot of things easier :D
22:26:49 <frosch123> i wonder whether we can store in a cookie which pages the user just edited, and fetch those from the edit server, and the rest from static
22:27:09 <TrueBrain> or if you are logged in, that it loads it from the edit server
22:27:28 <frosch123> something like that, yes
22:27:51 <TrueBrain> on the other hand, we can add to the edit server a big banner: THIS IS THE PREVIEW VERSION, CLICK HERE FOR THE LIVE VERSION
22:27:57 <TrueBrain> that might ... avoid people linking there
22:28:20 <TrueBrain> but I agree humans are likely to not act that way :D
22:28:23 <frosch123> i think js can write whatever it likes into the urlbar
22:28:40 <frosch123> so we can show the real url while editing
22:29:03 <TrueBrain> well, something to fiddle with at least :)
22:29:08 <TrueBrain> but first I am going to build the view part
22:29:11 <TrueBrain> after that, the edit part :)
22:30:40 <TrueBrain> still running, but:
22:30:45 <TrueBrain> are the stats so far :)
22:34:38 <TrueBrain> can't believe how many edge-cases I found for wikitextparser library to improve :D I wonder what other users have been parsing ..
22:34:41 <TrueBrain> clearly not user-content :D
23:02:21 <TrueBrain> we really do have too many wiki pages ..
23:02:26 <TrueBrain> 4k and counting ...
23:04:04 <frosch123> it's less than 800 english pages after migration, when excluding "archive"
23:04:31 <frosch123> and 230 of that are vehicle/industry/cargo pages of the baseset
23:05:39 <frosch123> but yes, the wiki becomes a lot easier to grasp after the reductions
23:05:55 <frosch123> there are some similar pages, that could be merged, and were just "lost" before
23:05:55 <TrueBrain> I am now checking files outside of latin-1 :P
23:07:31 <TrueBrain> how do I stream a tablet to my PC (the screen) ?
23:09:21 <TrueBrain> turns out that without WiFi the "Connect" app doesn't work :P
23:09:30 <TrueBrain> and .. my PC doesn't have WiFi .. I mean ... why would it
23:15:22 <TrueBrain> okay, it now started to run Templates stand-alone .. that didn't really go well :P
23:20:07 <TrueBrain> well, more tomorrow!
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