IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-09-19
⏴ go to previous day
01:32:25 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd
02:25:22 *** supermop_Home_ has quit IRC
04:37:10 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd
05:14:28 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd
05:25:12 *** Gustavo6046 is now known as Guest1291
05:25:16 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd
05:48:25 *** supermop_Home_ has joined #openttd
05:48:41 <supermop_Home_> well we're screwed
06:19:38 *** supermop_Home_ has quit IRC
06:24:16 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on issue #8261: Suggestion: Add NewGRF global variable for industry density https://git.io/JJkWo
06:24:16 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler closed issue #8261: Suggestion: Add NewGRF global variable for industry density https://git.io/JJkWo
08:28:05 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
08:28:12 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
08:28:24 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
08:29:09 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
08:48:29 *** Progman has joined #openttd
09:08:34 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
09:13:25 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
10:49:25 <TrueBrain> there, grfsearch also switched to new infra :)
13:23:46 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd
13:28:37 <TrueBrain> now I am really blocked by others .. hmm ..
13:28:47 <TrueBrain> owh, no, I can do supybot migration!
13:31:34 <TrueBrain> and I guess I can look into the PR for eints, see if I can fix my own comments :D
13:31:42 <TrueBrain> but wiki remains the real issue tbfh
13:31:50 <TrueBrain> launch it on its own EC2 instance you say? :P
13:32:59 *** m1cr0man has joined #openttd
13:45:02 <tokai> Played a bit OpenTTD yesterday on the RaspberryPI, but no sound. Somehow less fun when the busses don't honk. :D (yeah, looks like I'm too stupid for Linux still… no idea how to fix the issue :) )
14:47:52 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
15:23:21 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
15:30:14 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 commented on pull request #5: Add github-based authentication and authorization https://git.io/JUEC8
15:32:16 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 commented on pull request #5: Add github-based authentication and authorization https://git.io/JUEC4
15:33:09 <frosch123> when i look at the individual commits, there are a lot more comments than in the main pr....
15:35:34 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 commented on pull request #5: Add github-based authentication and authorization https://git.io/JUEC0
15:35:43 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 commented on pull request #5: Add github-based authentication and authorization https://git.io/JUECE
15:35:55 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 commented on pull request #5: Add github-based authentication and authorization https://git.io/JUECu
15:36:07 <frosch123> TrueBrain: sorry, i am just declining things :)
15:36:27 <TrueBrain> that is not an issue; just stop commenting that and resolve them :P
15:36:29 <frosch123> but eints contains a lot of stuff that should rather get deleted and spent more time on
15:37:37 <TrueBrain> I did not see that you moved code around I have to say :P
15:38:26 <frosch123> let's say... i discovered some auth-failure issues with the way the development auth system was intermixed with the real code
15:39:19 <TrueBrain> but just fix what-ever you think is reasonable from my comments, and ignore the rest :) I am fine with that :)
15:39:25 <TrueBrain> it was clear a non-Python person wrote eints :P
15:39:43 <TrueBrain> let's not try to fix that :D For that we have 'black' if we want to :)
15:39:45 <frosch123> haha, albert used to be the most pythonic persion around :p
15:40:03 <TrueBrain> well, that says more about the other people than about him, sorry :D
15:40:57 <TrueBrain> but if it really bothers me, I will run black over eints and make a PR out of that :) Solves the whole coding-style issue at once :)
15:41:43 <frosch123> yes, that's also my plan. but only after i got rid of my active branches :p
15:41:59 <TrueBrain> as it will be a patch-killer :D
15:42:01 <TrueBrain> so take your time :)
15:48:53 <TrueBrain> basically, atm, I would be happy if GitHub logins work :P
16:36:06 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 updated pull request #5: Add github-based authentication and authorization https://git.io/Jv2k1
16:36:15 <frosch123> no idea what to do with requirements.txt
16:37:03 <frosch123> depending on the settings in config.xml, it either needs requests-oauthlib, postgres or other libs
16:38:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 commented on pull request #5: Add github-based authentication and authorization https://git.io/JUEWx
16:39:37 <TrueBrain> Lol.. yeah, you need a setup.py for that
16:40:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 commented on pull request #5: Add github-based authentication and authorization https://git.io/JUElJ
16:40:22 <TrueBrain> Well, I need to make this deploable anyway, guess we do that on the OpenTTD fork with a requirements.txt for our setup
16:40:29 <frosch123> TrueBrain: but i actually do not want to support those redmine things :)O
16:40:42 <frosch123> TrueBrain: it is currently not container ready
16:41:05 <frosch123> you cannot just start eints, you need the local setup of the project
16:41:13 <frosch123> and the git push/pull infrastructure
16:41:33 <frosch123> we can deploy it to the current eints vm, and get rid of the translator mail
16:41:46 <frosch123> but we cannot yet get rid of the eints vm, and move stuff into aws
16:43:28 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 commented on pull request #5: Add github-based authentication and authorization https://git.io/JUElY
16:44:51 <TrueBrain> Pffft, but ooookkkaaaayyyyy :D
16:45:14 <FLHerne> An AppImage would definitely be worth having, people (inc. me) have been complaining ever since the 'generic linux' binaries went away
16:45:37 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
16:47:50 <FLHerne> I guess that would mean some script to download a suitable Docker image to build OTTD in, and maybe some more metadata?
17:00:06 <TrueBrain> frosch123: you tested the PR, as in, it works?
17:00:51 <frosch123> it worked in march :p
17:01:31 <frosch123> i did not really test it after todays stuff
17:01:53 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain approved pull request #5: Add github-based authentication and authorization https://git.io/JUElx
17:02:04 <TrueBrain> you might want to before merging
17:02:07 <TrueBrain> but honestly .. YOLO :)
17:03:18 <TrueBrain> if you like, I can snapshot the VM before we update it on the VM?
17:03:58 <TrueBrain> well, just did make a snapshot, as they are almost free anyway :)
17:04:08 <TrueBrain> after merge, you give it a spin to update the VM? Or do you want me to?
17:13:41 <frosch123> will check later, late afternoon is too hot here
17:47:38 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
17:56:50 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
18:17:56 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
18:17:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
18:26:14 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
18:42:47 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
19:38:45 <frosch123> ah, right, i need that silly localhost https hack again
19:44:35 <frosch123> still seems to work :)
19:46:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 merged pull request #5: Add github-based authentication and authorization https://git.io/Jv2k1
19:50:37 <andythenorth> hmm the Horse garratt should be able to run backwards
19:57:40 <frosch123> TrueBrain: do you remember whether we wanted to merge changes into openttd branch, or whether to force rebase it?
19:58:30 <TrueBrain> I always prefer force rebases, as it keeps it more readable what changes are applied
19:58:33 <TrueBrain> but that is personal preference
19:58:58 <frosch123> ok, i also prefer that, so i guess that's what we decided :)
20:04:00 <frosch123> hmm, i completely forgot the magic local sign-in for the scripts :/
20:05:27 <TrueBrain> most likely: ssh eints
20:05:48 <frosch123> ok, abort. this is not a rebase... this is a new branch with a few cherry-picks :)
20:06:04 <TrueBrain> :D Sounds like a good plan ;)
20:09:44 *** Progman has joined #openttd
20:23:06 <TrueBrain> if I can help with anything frosch123 , let me know!
20:23:49 <frosch123> nah, deleting half of the commits is fun :)
21:32:00 <frosch123> for the latter, it's view/root.tpl that's different
21:32:02 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
21:42:58 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
21:44:48 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
21:45:28 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
21:49:10 <TrueBrain> Cant remember what we need the local bypass for, just remember we do :p
21:50:11 <frosch123> it's the cronjob that uploads/downloads files between git working copy and eints
21:51:06 <frosch123> eints data files have no shared access, so everything has to go through the "api"
21:51:40 <TrueBrain> Could be mentioned in the commit, but meh
21:52:32 <frosch123> i think we will get rid of it somewhen
21:53:57 <frosch123> ok, i'll put it into production tomorrow :)
21:54:12 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd
21:54:31 <frosch123> then we only need to cleanup the website, and empty the contacts page :p
21:55:00 <TrueBrain> Empty? That sounds a bit drastic :p
21:56:02 <frosch123> well, i want something like "game play question -> ask forums or reddit; support questions -> ask forums or reddit; 10 other things -> ask forums or reddit; private matters -> info@"
21:56:24 <frosch123> and remove all the personal developer addresses
21:56:40 <TrueBrain> Does einst store data on disk other than the git?
21:57:32 <frosch123> it stores the user and timestamp of each string, which is not present in git
21:57:46 <frosch123> and well, push is only once per day
21:58:09 <frosch123> no, custom json files
21:58:17 <frosch123> horribly slow and space consuming
21:58:38 <frosch123> i have a patch somewhere for turning it into sqlite
21:58:50 <TrueBrain> K.. then I might have an idea how to migrate it to AWS; but that is a project for next week :p
21:59:26 <TrueBrain> And talking about dev emails .. we still need a solution for email on @openttd.org
22:00:23 <frosch123> sure, but wiki is the real problem :)
22:00:48 <TrueBrain> All 3 are a problem .. eints, mail and wiki
22:01:02 <TrueBrain> Eints we got now, so I am happy
22:01:14 <TrueBrain> Email no clue yet .. drop dev email addresses?
22:01:35 <TrueBrain> Wiki .. still waiting for LordAro to upgrade mediawiki :p
22:01:45 <andythenorth_> then it is finished?
22:02:00 <frosch123> you wanted dev emails for something, like commit signing or so
22:02:05 <TrueBrain> Then the old infra can be shut down, yes
22:02:36 <TrueBrain> It is nice on GitHub to have devs use @openttd.org, yes
22:02:37 <frosch123> but info@ is needed, sadly
22:02:44 <TrueBrain> One mailbox is easy
22:02:57 <TrueBrain> Just 4 euro a month, so whatever
22:03:35 <frosch123> can we forward all others?
22:03:49 <TrueBrain> I think that is best
22:05:03 <TrueBrain> Yeah, that can work
22:05:32 <TrueBrain> And I kinda know how, now this said out loud
22:05:37 <TrueBrain> Cool, another one solved
22:05:46 <TrueBrain> So yeah, wiki ... ugh :p
22:06:33 <TrueBrain> But let's first focus on getting eints done ;)
22:06:39 <frosch123> the polish dude did not reply btw
22:06:51 <frosch123> i guess i can write something on their user page on the wiki
22:07:04 <frosch123> but otherwise there are no other contact options
22:07:54 <TrueBrain> Otherwise .. sad, but is what it is
22:50:47 *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd
22:53:23 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
23:00:03 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
23:10:39 <TrueBrain> Wikis just suck .. :p
23:14:06 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i guess part of the problem is that i don't qyite understand what form the (media)wiki would have to be in to be compatible with AWS
23:16:29 <TrueBrain> Mostly we need to know what we want with the wiki tbfh
23:16:51 <TrueBrain> Gollum would be nice as it simplifies so many things, but mostly maintenance and upgrades
23:17:24 <TrueBrain> Mediawiki is just bleeding death atm as nobody is maintaining it, both from an infra point of view but also content wise
23:17:51 <TrueBrain> Dead? Typing is hard
23:18:23 <TrueBrain> An alternative might be to change to wiki into a Jekyll site tbh
23:18:44 <TrueBrain> And open up the repo to everyone (as in, free to edit, no PR)
23:19:05 <TrueBrain> Nearly the same as a wiki
23:19:49 <TrueBrain> Hmm, I wonder if frosch's scripts can do that :D
23:20:03 <LordAro> so i need to find/make a docker image that's self contained enough that it can be upgradable?
23:20:17 <LordAro> i do neee to learn how docker actually works...
23:20:50 <TrueBrain> Well, I need an OCI container, if we want to be real strict
23:21:16 <TrueBrain> But I really doubt mediawiki is the right fit for OpenTTD
23:22:53 <TrueBrain> The spec is nowadays defined by opencontainer
23:23:26 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
23:23:41 <TrueBrain> Docker is on a return
23:23:53 <TrueBrain> Podman for example is already a lot better
23:24:00 <TrueBrain> But they all run OCI containers
23:24:07 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
23:24:15 <andythenorth_> OOI why is media-wiki not right shape?
23:24:24 <andythenorth_> is it not the de-facto standard?
23:24:32 <TrueBrain> But you have to ask yourself the honest question if you are willing to maintain such Docker container LordAro
23:24:41 <andythenorth_> (this isn't about my personal preference, I don't like MW as a user)
23:25:41 <TrueBrain> You can see the monthly effort already going in DorpsGek, and now BaNaNaS and masterserver
23:25:59 <TrueBrain> Mediawiki will be.. triple the effort of those combined? :D
23:26:19 <TrueBrain> It is just really not a friendly piece of software ;)
23:26:36 <TrueBrain> Andythenorth: it brings a tonal of features we never ever use
23:27:04 <TrueBrain> Mobile is weirdly auto correcting stuff
23:27:31 <andythenorth_> it's the wordpress of wikis :P
23:27:59 <TrueBrain> We once used it as a free place for anyone to edit .. but GitHub gives identical functionality in those regards
23:28:39 <TrueBrain> So you have to look past the nostalgia, and think: what is wiki.openttd.org really
23:29:05 <TrueBrain> (Besides a lot of outdated information :D)
23:29:22 * andythenorth_ tries to write a short line :P
23:29:45 <andythenorth_> TL;DR I got the idea that the point of wiki is "it's not our problem"
23:30:14 <TrueBrain> Sounds like a horrible thing to host :D
23:30:20 <andythenorth_> just post an export on forums, close it and see if anyone takes it over?
23:30:27 *** greeter has joined #openttd
23:30:31 <andythenorth_> or moves it fandom?
23:30:39 <TrueBrain> There are a lot of good articles on it
23:30:58 <TrueBrain> Just the platform clearly doesn't invite people to update it these days :)
23:32:15 <TrueBrain> But you can turn the question around: what do we lose if we make it a Jekyll site with unrestricted edit rights on GitHub?
23:32:24 <andythenorth_> links to coin miners?
23:32:31 <andythenorth_> obligatory tinfoil comment
23:32:45 <TrueBrain> How does it differ from now?
23:33:03 <andythenorth_> potato / potato
23:33:17 <TrueBrain> I asked what we lost
23:33:30 <andythenorth_> I have no solution, so might close my mouth
23:33:43 <TrueBrain> I am not asking for solutions ;)
23:33:52 <TrueBrain> I am asking what we lose in functionality
23:34:00 <TrueBrain> If it would be Jekyll
23:34:34 <TrueBrain> You say links to coinminers; I disagree
23:34:42 <andythenorth_> MW is very common, jekyll is not?
23:34:46 * andythenorth_ now just guessing
23:35:01 <LordAro> it's a static site generator
23:35:05 <TrueBrain> We are forcing our whole user base to GitHub, and we can make the gap rather small
23:35:08 <andythenorth_> I dislike us hosting anything that's open-edit
23:35:08 <LordAro> (and what we use for the website)
23:35:21 <andythenorth_> I got burnt before by open-edit web systems
23:35:28 <TrueBrain> Well, GitHub Pages is what I have in mind
23:35:49 <TrueBrain> But I am not asking to define Jekyll and wiki, I ask what functionality we lose ;)
23:36:01 <andythenorth_> what does the wki do?
23:36:14 <LordAro> we'd lose an actual CMS
23:36:19 <TrueBrain> You can edit articles on GitHub and they are published for everyone to read :)
23:36:29 <LordAro> github web interface barely counts
23:36:50 <TrueBrain> Really? You consider the mediawiki interface better?
23:36:56 <LordAro> and mediawiki is much improved over what ottd wiki is running, what with visual editors and all
23:37:16 <andythenorth_> does jekyll have all the magic page creation crap?
23:37:18 <TrueBrain> Name them please :)
23:37:22 <andythenorth_> and the 404 handling and redirects
23:38:00 <TrueBrain> And again, consider our use of the wiki over the last 5 years ;)
23:38:18 <andythenorth_> has anyone here actually used the wiki in last 5 years, except me?
23:38:19 <TrueBrain> We are not shooting for the moon etc
23:38:48 <andythenorth_> where's the feed of changes? :P
23:39:17 <TrueBrain> To me it really feels we want mediawiki because. Which is a poor reason ;)
23:39:46 <TrueBrain> The same reason I am fine with Gollum btw
23:40:10 <andythenorth_> I absolutely don't care either way
23:40:16 <TrueBrain> (Which is just GitHub Pages standalone)
23:40:20 <andythenorth_> I have done my penance editing the wiki
23:40:39 <andythenorth_> who would approve Jekyll edits?
23:40:47 <TrueBrain> Nobody, like a wiki
23:41:44 <TrueBrain> From my point of view, we can either try to host a beast of a software, or find a lean and mean solution
23:41:47 <andythenorth_> how frequently would GH Pages build the PRs?
23:41:55 <TrueBrain> Frosch has been doing the latter
23:42:03 <andythenorth_> the cycle time on edit sometimes sucks for static site generators
23:42:50 <andythenorth_> hmm, tangent, who runs newgrf wiki? Coop?
23:44:05 <andythenorth_> tt-wiki.net owner is masked
23:44:06 <TrueBrain> Anyway, think about it .. and try not to get stuck in the: because we can and/or because we always have and/or because it is the standard or whatever ;)
23:44:59 <TrueBrain> I will see if I can make a proof of concept with frosch for GitHub Pages or Gollum, just so you can get a feel for it
23:44:59 <andythenorth_> I have proposed before just getting rid of wiki, in all seriousness
23:45:25 <TrueBrain> As pretty sure it is hard to imagine for you guys if you don't know how that looks and feels :)
23:45:37 <TrueBrain> It has some serious good articles
23:45:51 <TrueBrain> So removing it all together is not user friendly
23:46:24 <TrueBrain> Our ingame documentation sucks balls :p
23:47:06 <TrueBrain> And pretty sure nobody is going to sign up to make beginner tutorials etc ;)
23:48:01 * andythenorth_ would buy for $1 a better newgrf wiki :P
23:48:23 <andythenorth_> hook me with that, the main ottd wiki, I am just talking so it's not a monologue here :P
23:48:32 <andythenorth_> I guess newgrf wiki is orudge
23:49:06 <andythenorth_> also I have to keep the line count up, historically I am 50% of the channel
23:49:41 <TrueBrain> But .. who uses IRC still, I mean ..
23:49:55 <TrueBrain> The Discord channels are a lot more active
23:50:04 <TrueBrain> We live in a bubble :)
23:55:13 <supermop_Home> hows cheese land
23:56:16 <supermop_Home> british isles in general, west of centerline in particular
23:56:40 <supermop_Home> working on a good Neal's Yard Cheddar here
23:56:54 <andythenorth_> caerphilly I am near currently, and that is back in lockdown
continue to next day ⏵