IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-08-13
⏴ go to previous day
00:19:44 *** mm is now known as Guest5712
00:27:54 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #8295: The game crashes after two in-game months https://git.io/JJ9zk
00:28:51 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] VerlorenMind commented on issue #8295: The game crashes after two in-game months https://git.io/JJ9zk
00:42:17 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
00:42:29 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
00:56:46 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] VerlorenMind commented on issue #8295: The game crashes after two in-game months https://git.io/JJ9zk
01:11:23 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
02:03:02 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd
03:16:21 <Gustavo6046> Placing down bridges like a chadtm
03:24:33 <Eddi|zuHause> what's that loop for?
03:31:47 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
03:42:48 <Gustavo6046> Eddi|zuHause: so trains coming both ways can access the depot or the station
03:43:53 <Eddi|zuHause> what "both ways"? there's only a path from one direction, in two different ways, probably neither one will ever get used
03:47:13 <Gustavo6046> they're both the same way
03:47:16 <Gustavo6046> I'm stupid lol, thanks
03:50:10 <Eddi|zuHause> right. next question: how will they get out?
03:50:32 <Gustavo6046> From the station or the depot?
03:50:48 <Gustavo6046> From the depot, they can just go the other way around these loops.
03:51:02 <Gustavo6046> if they want to go north, they can just follow the north track and
03:51:09 <Eddi|zuHause> assume that on every signal, there's a train waiting.
03:51:11 <Gustavo6046> that diagonal crossing in the middle is not necessary
03:51:30 <Eddi|zuHause> how will they pass that train?
03:52:26 <Gustavo6046> I dunno where else.
03:52:34 <Gustavo6046> Maybe the signal in one of the branches near the north exit?
03:54:57 <Eddi|zuHause> on a single-track section like that, you should have no signals anywhere...
04:03:53 <Gustavo6046> I didn't know that!
04:31:14 <Gustavo6046> I should've hired Minecraft Steve to dig it. :P
05:31:18 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
05:34:39 *** y2kboy23 has joined #openttd
05:48:50 <Gustavo6046> I have around $120k USD left, all loans paid, why does the game still not let me autorenew my trains? (I even told to explicitly replace diesel engines by the electric SH40, but no budge)
05:56:15 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a setting for a limit
05:56:37 <Eddi|zuHause> also, replacing diesel to electric is only possible in electrified depots
06:02:27 <Gustavo6046> Eddi|zuHause: I converted every single thing to electric. It took me two tile swoops.
06:03:15 <Eddi|zuHause> if you do it right, converting everything takes about 10 pixels of mouse movement :p
06:04:22 <Gustavo6046> Well, I selected everything and it complained "owned by AdmiralAI Corps."
06:04:28 <Gustavo6046> therefore all of *my* tiles are already general electric
06:05:33 <Eddi|zuHause> not zooming out, but scrolling to the north end, opening a second viewport (press "V"), and then scrolling to the south end. then you can drag from the viewport window into the main map
06:16:24 <Eddi|zuHause> (and technically you don't even need the mouse to scroll)
06:22:05 <Gustavo6046> Do multiple ships in the same dock slow loading/unloading down
06:23:05 <Eddi|zuHause> (that's really the most OP part about ships, you can fit infinitely many of them in close space)
06:33:22 <Gustavo6046> I was gonna say "I wish I could build tunnels", but the severe land "circumvention" limitations seem just right now.
06:36:06 <Gustavo6046> I like ships, though.
06:36:22 <Gustavo6046> Something about them figuring out their routes and alternating on loading and unloading is kinda cool.
06:36:30 <Gustavo6046> Same about trains. It looks so nice and gratifying for whatever reason.
07:32:04 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
07:50:12 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8288: Fix: sprite preview in sprite aligner is too small with scaled UI https://git.io/JJHql
07:50:46 <Gustavo6046> The buoy thing is kinda annoying
07:51:15 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8291: Change: Use key names instead of characters in hotkey.cfg https://git.io/JJHq8
08:16:23 <CornsMcGowan[m]> shame the ship pathfinder has had issues for a while
08:21:30 <CornsMcGowan[m]> yeah like it doesn't have the same optimisations like the road/rail ones
08:22:40 <Eddi|zuHause> that's not quite correct
08:23:01 <Eddi|zuHause> it has the all the same optimizations. just they don't work that well
08:23:26 <Eddi|zuHause> because with roads and rails, you have long straight sections
08:23:41 <Eddi|zuHause> which don't need any pathfinder decisions, and can be cached
08:23:59 <Eddi|zuHause> with water, every tile is a crossing, which needs a pathfinder decision
08:24:09 <Eddi|zuHause> so you can't cache any of that
08:24:57 <Eddi|zuHause> you need a completely different kind of optimization for that
08:26:44 <CornsMcGowan[m]> tfw no jump point search
08:40:58 <Eddi|zuHause> you're welcome to implement that
08:57:01 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
08:58:23 <Wolf01> Let's see if provider is able to connect to the global internet today
09:03:09 <Eddi|zuHause> what other internet would it connect to?
09:05:04 <Wolf01> Italian sites and services operated normally, a lot of foreign services had problems yesterday
09:14:19 *** Extrems has joined #openttd
09:16:16 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds odd, i would imagine a large country like italy has more than one connection to the outside world
09:32:51 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
10:26:58 <andythenorth> glass like that is amazing
10:27:03 <andythenorth> also gives me the creeps
10:27:12 <andythenorth> my grandma had tables made of it
10:27:45 <andythenorth> putting your hand under it is a bit like trypophobia
10:38:28 <FLHerne> andythenorth: New Horse rendering process?
10:38:34 <FLHerne> - build train in Lego
10:38:40 <FLHerne> - put train under pixel-glass
10:38:59 <FLHerne> - copy result onto spritesheet
10:42:11 <Timberwolf> The physical version of the Timberwolf's Trains process!
10:51:36 *** y2kboy23 has joined #openttd
10:56:56 <Wolf01> <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds odd, i would imagine a large country like italy has more than one connection to the outside world <- iirc only 4, and the Milan one fails often which causes a lot of overload on the others
10:57:41 <Eddi|zuHause> that's because capitalism tends to optimize away all redundancies
11:00:12 <Wolf01> Like the wiring of the FTTH, TIM (the main provider) is wiring for FTTC while openfiber wires for FTTH, the problem is that openfiber can get funds only where there isn't FTTC and TIM doesn't even consider FTTH
11:01:51 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
11:02:30 <Wolf01> So, since I have FTTC I won't get FTTH unless I pay (a lot and iirc only commercial companies could ask for it) or wait until they finish to cover everything and start the second pass to upgrade the last mile... which TIM want to do with 5G
11:03:37 <Wolf01> That's because you can't have 2 of the same infrastructure covering the same territory
11:19:59 <andythenorth_> Eddi|zuHause that might be the best one line critique of contemporary capitalism I've seen
11:27:14 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth_: yeah, i felt like adding any more words to it would probably break it :p
11:29:35 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
11:30:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: that's worse than capitalism. that's protectionism and local monopolies
11:30:56 <andythenorth_> Eddi|zuHause not sure you'd rally a crowd behind it :P
11:31:16 <andythenorth_> if only we could incentive capitalism to leave one layer of redundancy in place :P
11:31:40 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno. people did crowd behind tweet-sized critiques in the past. :)
11:31:59 <andythenorth_> bubbles seem to incentivise provision of huge redundancy initially, e.g. railway bubble etc
11:32:13 <andythenorth_> then it's over-corrected by short-term profit motive
11:32:31 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth_: in theory, that's where government policies would step in. but those have been driven into the ground since at least the thatcher era
11:32:44 <andythenorth_> 'free market knows best'
11:32:53 <Eddi|zuHause> "except when it doesn't"
11:33:01 * andythenorth_ _is_ a capitalist
11:33:09 <andythenorth_> but probably not a typical capitalist
11:33:48 <Eddi|zuHause> is there a "typical" capitalist? (as opposed to a "stereotypical")
11:34:13 <Eddi|zuHause> capitalists are also people [[citation needed]]
11:34:23 <andythenorth_> evidence needed
11:34:35 <andythenorth_> is anyone actually people?
11:35:15 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, if you take enough "averages" over different categories, you're sure to find no person that satisfies all of them
11:35:58 <Eddi|zuHause> australia repeatedly tries to find the "average australian", and they failed every time
11:51:14 <Wolf01> I'm the average lazy bastard
11:59:00 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
12:07:02 <andythenorth_> early for frosch's
12:07:22 <andythenorth_> english stupid '
12:08:40 <frosch123> it's raining, so the climate is nice today
12:09:06 <andythenorth_> LordAro is that like tomatoes?
12:09:57 <TrueBrain> wait, you have rain already? Dammit ...
12:10:06 <LordAro> frosch123 is red for me...
12:10:57 <frosch123> don't mind the 90's design of that site
12:11:10 <frosch123> the data is from a few kilometers from here
12:13:01 <andythenorth_> the first day I need to go back in the office
12:13:07 <andythenorth_> there are severe weather warnings
12:13:15 <andythenorth_> and my road is being resurfaced so I can't drive
12:13:27 <andythenorth_> "god sends a message"
12:46:03 <andythenorth_> I think Train Whack is a mistake
12:49:32 <frosch123> apparently you need a Whain Track variant
12:58:21 <andythenorth_> maybe it needs DLC
12:58:28 <andythenorth_> or a modding framework
12:58:46 <andythenorth_> when I do american Horse, will I allow combining in Train Whack?
13:38:51 <Wolf01> Let's try to install 2004
14:19:45 <Eddi|zuHause> there aren't many american horses pre 1492, unless you count -30000 or so :)
14:20:35 <Eddi|zuHause> (from what i heard, the predecessors of horses crossed the same land bridge as humans, just in the other direction)
15:04:13 <Flygon> Gotta haul that stuff with Llamas.
15:04:32 <Flygon> If we're speaking North American specifically, sled dogs were a thing in both the snowy areas, and non-snowy.
15:04:35 <Flygon> Yes, I am being serious.
15:05:59 <andythenorth_> HEQS original plan included elephants
15:32:39 <Flygon> andythenorth_: Getting in on the 1400s/1500s Industrialization of India?
15:33:17 <andythenorth_> I found a UN forestry manual from 1960s
15:33:33 <andythenorth_> logging with elephants was an included technique
15:39:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: i would imagine sled dogs were also not a thing in pre-columbian america :p
15:44:24 <CornsMcGowan[m]> will i get slaughtered for adding a global variable to my patch
15:45:14 <glx> it's better if you can avoid it
15:48:48 <CornsMcGowan[m]> fair; i'm just not sure how to add this tile highlighting stuff otherwise without adding params to the viewport functions
15:51:43 <CornsMcGowan[m]> i'll put in the one global i need and then afte,r i'll figure out how to eliminate it if possible
16:10:46 <Wolf01> Wtf is wrong with updates stuck at 94% for 1 hour?
16:14:15 <frosch123> it underestimated how long it takes to send all your data to the cia
16:42:53 <frosch123> pff, exporting ottd wiki will take an hour. i wonder whether my bot will reach the bot request quots then :p
16:48:10 <frosch123> TrueBrain: does the new docker image retention policy affect us somehow?
17:06:04 <Wolf01> Nice, now I could check the temperatures from the task manager
17:08:24 *** y2kboy23 has joined #openttd
17:10:08 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd
17:11:30 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
17:13:43 <Wolf01> 13:40 -> 17:00, not bad
17:14:33 *** Progman has joined #openttd
17:16:38 <TrueBrain> Most images are renewed every week; just some only if there was a change
17:17:05 <TrueBrain> So I will have to check, but this sounds like a terrible idea they have now ;)
17:17:15 <CornsMcGowan[m]> i've just been informed global class instance is abad idea
17:17:46 <CornsMcGowan[m]> time to use singleton
17:21:26 <Wolf01> TB: to use WSL2 do I need to do something or it has been automagically replaced with the update?
17:22:30 <TrueBrain> You need to upgrade
17:22:45 <TrueBrain> Microsoft's article on it is spoton
17:24:35 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd
17:31:15 <TrueBrain> Haven't looked into that
17:35:04 <Wolf01> Nice, I crashed OTTD badly, segmentation fault
17:41:51 *** Limes777 has joined #openttd
17:44:29 <Wolf01> Clean, I can't connect to the xserver
17:50:55 <LordAro> i'd say SDL related, at a random guess
17:55:22 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
18:03:31 <Wolf01> Ok, connection refused, but the server is running and configured, I used it
18:07:13 <TrueBrain> So there isn't any issue :)
18:08:22 <glx> oh it's just a case of dropping useless images then
18:09:20 <TrueBrain> Also means you cannot check an older image, like for us an older version of the CF
18:09:26 <TrueBrain> But I don't mind this
18:09:42 <TrueBrain> I hated Docker had no way of automatically deleting images
18:09:53 <TrueBrain> Our website repo is huge for absolutely no reason
18:12:17 <LordAro> you should stop doing that :p
18:12:29 <LordAro> matrix is bad at highlights
18:13:02 <glx> it's not the HL, it's the autocompletion I'd say
18:13:33 <_dp_> oh, wow, there is actually a good-looking 32bpp baseset/landscape
18:13:45 <_dp_> it's just been in development for over 10 years without a single release :/
18:14:40 <LordAro> over 10 years means it must date from the 32bpp-ez era, are you sure it's actually a baseset, rather than just a collection of images?
18:15:26 <_dp_> well, so far it's just a bunch of nice screenshots so who knows what it actually is :p
18:17:53 <glx> it's a one man project, including sounds and everything
18:26:02 <_dp_> it's a shame newgrfs never focused on making complete climates
18:26:19 <_dp_> like a faulty rubik's cube - billion of options but no solution :(
18:28:41 <frosch123> did you check out V's stuff?
18:29:01 <andythenorth_> it was already solved, just get original TTD graphics :P
18:32:19 <_dp_> frosch123, yes, but that's like the only set
18:32:29 <_dp_> and pretty extravagant one :p
18:32:48 <frosch123> there is also pm's pota:ghat
18:32:52 <frosch123> though it is a bit busy
18:35:09 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd
18:35:19 <_dp_> frosch123, isn't that just a ground sprites?
18:35:24 <_dp_> and quite a bad ones tbh
18:35:55 <frosch123> ah, you only accept complete sets. good luck then :p
18:36:36 <_dp_> well, yeah, that was kinda the whole point of what I said :p
18:36:54 <frosch123> i thought you were looknig for 32bpp ground sets
18:37:24 <TrueBrain> LordAro: tnx, did not know it does that. The new version of Matrix Mobile changed some things, that makes it less transparent what it sends to IRC :(
18:38:02 <_dp_> it's not even just 32bpp, for 8bpp there isn't much complete stuff either
18:38:57 <LordAro> _dp_: basesets are a lot of work :p
18:47:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
18:49:15 <_dp_> LordAro, yes, but it's not like those hundreds mismatched grfs didn't require any work
18:49:26 <_dp_> I'd just rather see few complete climates instead
18:50:04 <_dp_> like original ttd did, you change climate and everything is different
18:50:13 <_dp_> but fits together visually and gameplay-wise
18:52:15 <andythenorth_> only Simon Foster has ever managed to pull that off
18:53:15 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd
18:57:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] VerlorenMind commented on issue #8295: The game crashes after two in-game months https://git.io/JJ9zk
19:15:36 *** Progman has joined #openttd
19:53:51 * andythenorth_ has been researching trains
19:53:56 <andythenorth_> Iron Horse scale is all wrong
19:54:29 <nielsm> days since we discussed scale in transport tycoon: zero
20:32:16 <frosch123> hmm, i thought i know how mediawiki worked :p
20:32:32 <frosch123> turns out, image descriptions and image uploads are completely separate things
20:50:15 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #8288: Fix: sprite preview in sprite aligner is too small with scaled UI https://git.io/JJwtg
21:29:02 <andythenorth_> I have drawn big steam engines as 12/8
21:29:06 <andythenorth_> and big diesels as 8/8
21:29:12 <andythenorth_> IRL they should be the same it turns out
21:30:16 <andythenorth_> also size is deceptive :P
21:30:27 <frosch123> did you miss the tender?
21:31:06 <andythenorth_> something about the shape makes them look bigger than diesels
21:33:14 <andythenorth_> not going to redraw them, IRL is clearly wrong, Horse clearly right
21:34:38 <frosch123> 24m for br01, 18.5m for br v200
21:36:50 <andythenorth_> I suspect UK trains were limited by turntable length
21:37:13 <andythenorth_> so many factors to vehicle progression :P
21:37:26 <frosch123> so from my very limited sample size, steam engines are longer, but not by 50%
21:37:59 <andythenorth_> IRL should be retconned
21:40:18 * andythenorth_ only got into this because of Garratts :P
21:40:36 <frosch123> ah, also found diesels with 23m
21:40:44 <andythenorth_> someone should do a Garratt Zellepin, then NewGRF is complete
21:40:58 <nielsm> also steam engines tend to have many more wheels
21:41:35 <nielsm> while most diesels and electrics are Bo'Bo' and Co'Co' is kinda rare?
21:44:04 <FLHerne> nielsm: In the UK it's the other way round
21:44:26 <FLHerne> Co-Co diesel locos have always been the norm in the UK
21:44:47 <FLHerne> Bo-Bo is quite unusual
21:45:31 <FLHerne> (AC electrics the way you say, althought the 92s are a significant exception)
21:46:22 <FLHerne> The 40s and Peaks were quite common and 1-Co-Co-1, if you want to draw diesels with lots of wheels
21:47:27 <Timberwolf> The Class 28 was Co-Bo, although to do that justice in OpenTTD you need to work out how to animate the cab windows falling out.
21:48:35 <Timberwolf> That's from the "let's do weird stuff for fun" era of British steam replacement.
21:51:28 <andythenorth_> "then scrap it within 5 years"
21:51:40 <andythenorth_> the churn of 1955-1970 or so was quite nuts
21:52:11 <andythenorth_> 1 generation of steam engines and 2 generations of diesels designed, built, and then 2/3 of them scrapped
21:52:34 <andythenorth_> but if it doesn't work...melt it down :)
21:53:14 <andythenorth_> Timberwolf but have you got a class 38? o_O
21:58:26 <Timberwolf> I am thinking of sticking a Brush Kestrel in there.
21:59:38 <andythenorth_> hmm I could put a line in with Garratt -> Kestrel :P
22:00:14 <andythenorth_> stupid high power :)
22:18:32 <FLHerne> andythenorth_: Super Deltic
22:18:58 <FLHerne> (sure, it never actually existed, but it would have been really cool...)
22:20:53 <FLHerne> 36 cylinders, turbochargers, 4600hp
22:57:06 *** y2kboy23 has joined #openttd
22:58:15 <_dp_> lol, I just noticed ex's cb servers were called "City Mania"
22:58:26 <_dp_> so we kinda went full circle without even realizing xD
continue to next day ⏵
