IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-08-11
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09:11:42 <andythenorth> escalation of vehicle running costs is hard :P
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11:23:36 <CornsMcGowan[m]> i'm just thankful the full game compiles quicker now lmao
11:25:09 <CornsMcGowan[m]> -compared to like 2 years ago when modifying one file needed a 30 second relinking thingy
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11:30:51 <LordAro> CornsMcGowan[m]: i wouldn't have thought anything done recently would've changed that significantly
11:31:23 <LordAro> depends which file you're editing, as ever - touching a 'core' header file will inevitably mean recompiling everything
11:33:01 <CornsMcGowan[m]> hm i wouldn't imagine changing stuff like rail_gui.cpp would need so much time
11:33:10 <CornsMcGowan[m]> but yeah its much quicker now, whatever changed
11:33:34 <CornsMcGowan[m]> hm OnPlaceObjectAbort() doesn't execute when the user hits delete...
11:34:45 <CornsMcGowan[m]> doesn't happen when they click X either
11:35:22 <CornsMcGowan[m]> trying to find a function that reliably executes when the tool is closed
11:36:49 <CornsMcGowan[m]> eg when they deselect the tool, when they choose a different tool (onplaceobjectabort covers these cases), and when the toolbar itself is closed entirely
11:36:58 <Eddi|zuHause> are you sure you're not compiling a debug build? those probably compile faster (but run slower)
11:37:49 <CornsMcGowan[m]> but yeah i do remember when working on 1.8 and 1.7, i'd change one line in rail_gui.cpp and it would take some time to recomp
11:38:13 <CornsMcGowan[m]> i guess i could checkout the old tags and have a go again
12:46:28 <CornsMcGowan[m]> oh so the window closing just uses `delete`
12:47:28 <CornsMcGowan[m]> so i can modify the destructor of the rail toolbar to catch that event
14:20:36 <CornsMcGowan[m]> dp when you were implementing the path search rail builder, did you use the tile edges as the graph vertices?
14:20:54 <CornsMcGowan[m]> idk if i pinged correctly
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15:21:21 <FLHerne> Second one looks right
15:34:50 <TrueBrain> and here I was, wondering why my Rust application was so much slower than I expected .. well, it helps to create a release build instead of a debug :P Damn, that is a lot faster :D
15:36:05 <TrueBrain> 22.1 vs 1.7 seconds :D
15:36:35 <LordAro> yeah, rust debug vs release performance is impressive
15:36:49 <LordAro> i've never been sure whether debug is excessively slow, or release is just that fast
15:37:30 <TrueBrain> I am meeting my deadlines with ~1 usec ..
15:37:34 <TrueBrain> that is .. a lot better than I expected
15:39:41 <TrueBrain> it sometimes, depending on other activities in this still single-thread application, can be 1ms overdue .. rest of the time it is within 1 us .. holy crap :P
15:39:51 <TrueBrain> and this is Rust calling Python calling Rust
16:00:25 <LordAro> i'd ask why, but i'm not sure i want to know
16:00:37 <TrueBrain> well, yes, as the answer is ofc: why not? :)
16:00:49 <TrueBrain> but this is a static/dynamic SNES decompiler, or at least, the beginnings :)
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16:01:24 <TrueBrain> it builds an AST; I now need Visitors to make the code easier to read :P
16:06:49 <TrueBrain> where is my airco? You happen to know?
16:21:35 <_dp_> CornsMcGowan[m], yeah, I used edges
16:52:10 <andythenorth> TrueBrain where did you leave it? o_O
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18:31:26 <Eddi|zuHause> where did all my food go? i need to go shopping, i fear
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18:37:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not even sure there's anything that delivers out here
18:37:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never actually tried
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18:44:39 <Wolf01> Hmmm still no update on microsoft store
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18:50:02 <TrueBrain> did anyone ask orudge for that? :)
18:52:16 <LordAro> hmm, 1.10.3 uses configure still
18:53:07 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, we're not going to make that kind of changes to release builds :p
18:56:11 * andythenorth stopped reading github
18:56:23 <andythenorth> definitely happier now
18:56:31 <LordAro> but think of the issues!
18:56:54 <andythenorth> nah, if there were more of us who were completionist I would
18:57:00 <andythenorth> but it's not a fun game to play solo
18:57:11 <andythenorth> trying to hold back the sea is no fun alone
18:57:55 <andythenorth> at the seaside, which of you build the biggest possible fort / dam / sandcastle against the incoming tide?
18:57:58 * andythenorth usually does that
18:59:29 <LordAro> been many years since i was at a suitably sandy beach (with digging implements) though
18:59:41 <supermop_Home_> andythenorth i prefer to find a stream running into the ocean and build dams and headraces
18:59:49 <LordAro> i also enjoy daming streams
19:00:01 <andythenorth> futile game, losing in the long term
19:00:06 <andythenorth> totally addictive
19:00:12 <Eddi|zuHause> on the seas i usually am, there's not much going on with tides
19:00:17 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: just like life, I guess :P
19:00:19 <supermop_Home_> preferably one with several channels so my brother and i can compete
19:00:48 <supermop_Home_> though now that he is a hydrological civil engineer i imagine it would no longer be fair
19:02:19 <TrueBrain> depends on if he earned that degree or not :P
19:04:37 <supermop_Home_> well my dad, also a civil engineer never built particular ambitious dams when all three of us were at it
19:05:04 <supermop_Home_> you really need the hubris of an architect to make a good beach dam
19:05:25 * andythenorth looking for pictures
19:07:41 <andythenorth> the ideal is to have the most upstream dam on a stream lots of people are damming
19:08:06 <supermop_Home_> i would love to have one of those big sand tables they have in hydrology labs
19:08:13 <andythenorth> this (1) tends to be the most technically challenging build, as it will be wider
19:08:24 <andythenorth> (2) blocks everyone else's water supply
19:08:40 <andythenorth> (3) people come up and ask you to break your dam so they can have water
19:08:47 <supermop_Home_> (3) open the spillway to destroy everyone elses
19:08:51 <andythenorth> (4) after enough requests and enough water, you let everyone break the dam
19:08:57 <andythenorth> which they really really want to do
19:09:05 <andythenorth> (5) all their dams collapse almost instantly
19:09:28 <Eddi|zuHause> you play wildly different games than me :p
19:09:30 <andythenorth> creates a public spectacle and voluntary trolling
19:09:44 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause this is probably _not_ surprising? o_O
19:09:56 <supermop_Home_> honestly so much of what annoys be about the terrain generator is hydrology based...
19:10:17 <supermop_Home_> maybe it's time for Open Dam Tycoon
19:10:19 <andythenorth> didn't servers used to have flooding?
19:11:00 <Eddi|zuHause> all my attempts at rivers so far failed on the restrictions that they can't be on half-slope tiles
19:11:20 <andythenorth> goes it throw out restriction? o_O
19:11:28 <andythenorth> you so nearly won with breadth-first Eddi|zuHause
19:11:32 <andythenorth> the artefacts were good
19:11:38 <andythenorth> also your town grid patch
19:12:06 <andythenorth> on the other hand....I am kind of wary of social pressure in open source right now
19:12:13 <supermop_Home_> liked the idea of that town thing
19:12:20 <andythenorth> having had a sense of humour failure about the whole open source project lifecycle
19:12:35 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause forget I ever mentioned your patches :)
19:12:54 <Eddi|zuHause> you forgot the synchronized level crossings
19:13:31 <Eddi|zuHause> and i think i have a half-done version of diagonal level crossings around somewhere
19:13:32 <supermop_Home_> with teleporting stuck trucks across?
19:13:59 <supermop_Home_> i thought the synchronous crossings was the prelim. work for diagonal
19:14:11 <supermop_Home_> man that was like 10 years ago at least?
19:14:18 <andythenorth> I have been yak-shaving down cost optimisations in Horse which almost no-one will notice
19:14:24 <andythenorth> and which I will declare wrong in 6 months
19:14:43 <andythenorth> but it is infinitely more fun than doing the nml docs rewrites I am *supposed* to be doing
19:14:44 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a crazy old version of diagonal crossings without the synchronization, which caused all kinds of problems
19:15:25 <Eddi|zuHause> so i started out with that problem, then updated the rest of the patch
19:15:40 <Eddi|zuHause> but i never got done porting over the graphics part
19:16:03 <Eddi|zuHause> it seemed to work fine mechanic wise
19:16:37 <supermop_Home_> andy i am supposed to be rendering lots of stupid pieces of furniture, but instead i'm looking at houses for sale in Honolulu that i'll never be able to afford
19:17:41 <Eddi|zuHause> and i'll never reach a shop before it closes at this speed...
19:18:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i should learn to do this in the morning
19:19:00 <andythenorth> I learned to live somewhere that delivers :|
19:19:12 <andythenorth> I would hate the logistics of having to plan to go out
19:21:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think it would be healthy for me to have yet more excuses to not go out
20:03:11 <andythenorth> so should I adjust running costs to be more...realistic? o_O
20:06:13 * andythenorth thinks track access charges should be simulated
20:06:33 <andythenorth> sometimes longer trains cost more, because they take up 2 paths, not 1
20:06:44 <andythenorth> and sometimes shorter trains cost more, because they 'waste' a path
20:07:01 <andythenorth> but shorter trains accelerate faster, and take less loop space
20:07:06 <andythenorth> but they carry less payload!
20:07:14 <andythenorth> oh wait, we own all the tracks :P
20:08:56 <andythenorth> FLHerne supermop_Home_ major tactical Horse question: ¿Garratt? y|n
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21:11:01 <TrueBrain> that moment you can decompile and run the whole intro of Zelda :D (well, without any gfx; only the CPU instructions :P)
21:13:40 <glx> nice, means you can also play the game virtually
21:13:55 <TrueBrain> in my mind, I sure can! :P
21:13:59 <glx> unless inputs are not yet supported
21:14:19 <TrueBrain> nothing is supported other than running opcodes :P
21:14:38 <TrueBrain> well, and 1 memory register, as otherwise the APU initialization code just halts :P
21:14:40 <glx> so intro then infinite loop in the menu
21:16:18 <TrueBrain> well, better: infinite loop of the intro :)
21:25:34 <TrueBrain> Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC) = 13,880 <- lines of generated code :P
21:25:45 <TrueBrain> this is fun :) Mostly because it works :P
21:26:02 <TrueBrain> a good: fuck-it-is-too-hot-to-think chore :)
21:26:31 <TrueBrain> I am still amazed how fast Rust is
21:26:45 <TrueBrain> despite calling Python constantly :)
21:27:46 <_dp_> zero-cost abstractions ftw xD
21:31:43 <TrueBrain> I am still surprised I meet most of my deadlines within a few usec .. for something that is calling 60 times a second, going through Python back to Rust .. I really did not expect that
21:31:48 <TrueBrain> I was fully prepared to slow down emulation
21:34:39 <Eddi|zuHause> at least if you're not constantly restarting python, that's not THAT surprising :)
21:38:52 * andythenorth forsees a Rust -Python hybrid NML :P
21:39:06 <andythenorth> oof I could franken-rust my newgrf compiles? o_O
21:39:28 <Eddi|zuHause> because you don't have enough layers of indirection yet?
21:39:43 <andythenorth> I could template the python :P
21:39:47 <andythenorth> I could template the Rust!
21:40:19 <Eddi|zuHause> if you say "blockchain" and "kubernetes" then i have bingo
21:42:03 <andythenorth> "new, from Iron Horse"
21:42:28 <andythenorth> 9x9 grid, you get 10 goes, if your trains match the grid, you win!
21:43:05 <andythenorth> oh, Train Tetris also
21:43:10 <andythenorth> but I might get sued for that
21:44:28 <andythenorth> Train Tycoon Deluxe!
21:44:37 <Eddi|zuHause> train simulat... oh wait :p
21:44:41 <andythenorth> someone should make a game with all these sprites I've drawn
21:45:46 <andythenorth> how about a game where you have to build a train network?
21:46:04 <Eddi|zuHause> you know these mornings where you declare war, and blow all your advantages in the first moments?
21:46:16 <andythenorth> sounds like my every day?
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23:28:55 <supermop_Home_> hmm can i use this guanciale for lardons
23:31:18 <supermop_Home_> well no protests from the Italian so i will go ahead
23:57:02 <Wolf01> supermop_Home_: always use guanciale
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