IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-07-13
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00:01:32 <nielsm> I think the memory representation of the bool might be implementation defined, but conversion from bool to int always results in 0 or 1
00:02:20 <_dp_> but it's a slightly different case
00:05:38 <_dp_> so now I'm watching for landmines every time there is a bool xD
00:07:45 <_dp_> should I still fix those shifts though while I still remember where they are?
00:12:25 <nielsm> the shift of a bool would still be an implicit conversion to int (0 or 1) and then shifting that int
00:12:42 <nielsm> if the bool has an undefined value then you'd be invoking UB regardless
00:14:33 <b_jonas> hey all. can I ask questions about FIRS? in particular, with FIRS, is it still true that FIRS temperate basic is the easiest climate, FIRS arctic basic is medium, tropic basic is hard? or does FIRS do away with that? in particular, what are the condition for town growth with FIRS?
00:16:03 <Eddi|zuHause> FIRS does nothing to change town growth.
00:16:29 <_dp_> nielsm, yeah, I understand that it's correct, just still a weird thing to do imo
00:16:37 <Eddi|zuHause> and there is nothing that prevents you to use tropic basic in temperate climate
00:16:56 <argoneus> how does timetabling determine which vehicle should get which start date?
00:16:58 <b_jonas> Eddi|zuHause: I know that, I'm asking because FIRS does change the food industry
00:17:00 <argoneus> they seem to leave the depot in random order
00:17:55 <b_jonas> and yes, part of the difference between climates is the default train engines and other vehicles
00:18:02 <b_jonas> and that depends on the climate
00:18:18 <b_jonas> but the industry set and town growth can change the difficulty too
00:18:38 <nielsm> towns in arctic and tropic climates might require different cargoes to grow, rather than food and water
00:18:44 <Eddi|zuHause> again. FIRS does NOT change TOWN GROWTH
00:20:39 <_dp_> I'm actually a bit surprised there were still some ctrl-click features I didn't know xD
00:22:04 <b_jonas> _dp_: there's actually a wiki article listing them
00:23:15 <b_jonas> I found a few I didn't know about there too
00:23:23 <_dp_> b_jonas, it's far from being complete :p
00:23:34 <_dp_> I did grep cmclient though, it may have some extras xD
00:24:11 <b_jonas> I use a lot of ctrl features often
00:24:29 <b_jonas> that might be because I'm used to gimp, which has a lot of features bound to holding ctrl and/or shift
00:25:07 <b_jonas> plus it seems to be the only way to create shared orders or clone a vehicle sharing orders
00:25:21 <_dp_> that article is among links I usually send to completely new players xD
00:25:43 <b_jonas> also the tooltips tell about some of the ctrl features
00:25:53 <b_jonas> and there are so many that sometimes I just TIAS
00:26:00 <argoneus> is there a way to determine which vehicle will leave the depot first?
00:26:11 <argoneus> the timetable autoseparation seems broken
00:26:57 <argoneus> it sets the start dates correctly but e.g. the bus that's meant to be 3rd is 1st
00:27:01 <argoneus> and blocks the others
00:27:03 <b_jonas> more about FIRS, is it possible to directly transport from a Fishing Grounds or Dredging Site industry with train or truck? or are they locked to ships only?
00:27:54 <b_jonas> also, if I'm new to FIRS, is it recommended that I try temperate basic first?
00:28:02 <b_jonas> or is one of the other two basics better?
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00:34:51 <b_jonas> oh, so FIRS tropic basic doesn't even have water, that must mean they've changed the town growth
00:41:17 <_dp_> I'll be experimenting with moving remove mode to shift
00:43:14 <_dp_> b_jonas, why do you even care about those town cargos? they are so irrelevant can hardly be counted as "town growth"
00:43:32 <_dp_> they just map to newgrf cargo based on some flags
00:44:34 <b_jonas> _dp_: because towns (on non-temperate) can basically stop growing if you don't transfer them, and town growth matters. on temperate they don't matter, sure, but I'm asking about the other climates.
00:44:57 <b_jonas> _dp_: and I also care about which cargoes are produced and accepted by houses (ordinary town buildings)
00:45:53 <b_jonas> oh also, how ready is FIRS 3? should I play that instead of FIRS 2?
00:46:45 <_dp_> b_jonas, it's so ready it's almost outdated :p
00:47:03 <b_jonas> I should have downloaded that then, thank you
00:47:11 <b_jonas> I'll download now so I don't forget
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00:56:29 <b_jonas> at least the in-game gui is clear enough about what a town needs for growth
00:56:39 <b_jonas> (and production and acceptance) so I can use that
01:02:24 <b_jonas> I think I'll probably stick to temperate and FIRS temperate basic at first if I try FIRS
01:02:44 <b_jonas> thank you for the answers
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11:24:07 <argoneus> is there any way to make a vehicle go the reverse order of stations automatically?
11:24:18 <argoneus> a bus going there and back
11:24:22 <argoneus> or do you need to do it manually
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11:45:37 <nielsm> you need to do it manually
11:46:53 <nielsm> unless you have constructed the line such that the only possibly path from end A to end B goes through all the stations in the intended order, then you can just order the vehicle to only the two end stations and make sure the orders a NOT "non-stop", then it will implicitly stop at all stations between
11:47:14 <nielsm> that can work for trains and trams, usually not buses
12:46:17 <argoneus> is there a way to tell cmake not to look for sdl?
12:46:20 <argoneus> since I want a dedicated server
12:48:56 <argoneus> cmake -DDEDICATED=TRUE doesn't seem to work
12:49:33 <argoneus> it's -DOPTION_DEDICATED=TRUE
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16:26:23 <CornsMcGowan[m]> hm of the ctrl click functions, the ones i don't know are depot + right click, remove sign, ctrl-click location to open viewport, remove desert
16:29:58 <_dp_> CornsMcGowan[m], do you know you can ctrl-click industry type in map legend to select anything but it?
16:30:08 <_dp_> CornsMcGowan[m], or ctrl-click station building tool to start it in remove mode?
16:30:33 <_dp_> CornsMcGowan[m], or ctrl-click livery types to change their colors all at once?
16:31:09 <_dp_> * disable anything but it
16:32:33 <_dp_> and I'm not even starting on scenario editor stuff :p
16:38:25 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #8269: Set invalid road and tram types for rail tunnel ends https://git.io/JJOUq
16:39:58 <_dp_> nielsm, you didn't add a single new ctrl-click :p
16:40:14 <nielsm> I could make ctrl-plant double the trees!!
16:40:45 <_dp_> actually, removing trees would make sense
16:41:09 <nielsm> hmm, as in counting down the number of trees on a tile?
16:41:10 <supermop_Home> ctrl to switch deciduous trees to conifers
16:42:35 <_dp_> nielsm, as in just removing them completely I think, at least in the game
16:43:13 <_dp_> dunno if counting trees makes any sense in se
16:43:15 <nielsm> that's just regular dynamite though, unless you mean a selective removal feature
16:43:33 <_dp_> like remove mode on other tools
16:43:48 <_dp_> I'm kind of doing that right now actually
16:43:53 <_dp_> though I started with station
16:46:54 <_dp_> I separated all magic to shift key and now adding more uses for remove mode on ctrl
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17:53:04 <argoneus> wew i only found today about jgr's patch pack
17:53:15 <argoneus> a lot of these features make me wonder why they aren't in trunk
17:53:20 <argoneus> i assume performance/memory constraints
17:54:39 <argoneus> especially a patch with automatic separation and timetabling
17:54:47 <argoneus> feels so much better than what's in the main branch
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21:28:06 <frosch123> is it newgrf release season?
21:28:53 <frosch123> 3 bananas migrations in 3 days, after about 1 month of nothing
22:08:18 <frosch123> i guess we forgot to add "no cb" to the tos
22:12:20 <frosch123> it's the thing you need to flame citymania, btpro, and stuff
22:14:12 <frosch123> is eddi the only one playing other games?
22:14:13 <argoneus> what's wrong with cb
22:15:10 <TrueBrain> frosch123: tnx for rebasing :D
22:15:54 <frosch123> now i can say "huh?"...
22:16:22 <TrueBrain> the last few PRs for BaNaNaS migration required a rebase before I could merge
22:16:25 <TrueBrain> this one did not :)
22:17:45 <frosch123> hmm, i thought there was a pull in the script
22:18:27 <frosch123> hmm, maybe "git fetch" silently fails if the ssh-key is not unlocked
22:23:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i try to avoid "no cb" wars... the -2 stab hit is annoying :p
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23:58:58 <b_jonas> oh nice, there's a setting to make oil displayed in cubic meters instead of liters. I'll enable that, the extra zeroes have been confusing me all the time.
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