IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-07-12
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00:25:06 <glx> _dp_: yeah looks weird, and can cause desync
00:25:31 <glx> not easily I guess, but still
00:38:05 <_dp_> what's even weirder is that so far only androids seem to desync...
00:38:37 <_dp_> and where tf does androd put netsave? %)
00:53:22 <_dp_> hmm, found netsave but 121 ticks of difference is enough to hide all evidence :(
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08:21:35 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Hexus-One commented on pull request #8268: Change: Sort cargo payment rates legend in order of (initial) cost instead of alphabetically https://git.io/JJYNq
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09:06:17 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8268: Change: Sort cargo payment rates legend in order of (initial) cost instead of alphabetically https://git.io/JJYNH
09:17:44 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] spnda commented on pull request #8268: Change: Sort cargo payment rates legend in order of (initial) cost instead of alphabetically https://git.io/JJYNj
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10:37:58 <_dp_> does anyone know what causes #8111? fixing the save without fixing the cause seems very weird
10:46:20 <_dp_> hm, looks like noone just bothered to fix tunnel building tool itself :/
11:05:21 <Eddi|zuHause> why did games develop this habit of auto-minimizing when you alt-tab?
11:05:31 <TrueBrain> they stopped that years ago :P
11:05:44 <TrueBrain> it is called fullscreen windowed ;)
11:05:59 <TrueBrain> (a fullscreen game has to minimize when you tab out because reasons)
11:07:29 <Eddi|zuHause> somebody didn't tell this game, then
11:10:41 <Eddi|zuHause> also, it captures the mouse pointer in the worst possible way
11:12:06 <Eddi|zuHause> and it doesn't offer a setting for capturing mouse pointer
11:12:19 <TrueBrain> sounds like a cheap game
11:12:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it's a cheap indie game called "tropico 6", i'm sure nobody ever heard about it
11:13:38 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, i found the setting, but it's not in UI but in gameplay settings
11:13:55 <TrueBrain> that makes TOTAL sense
11:16:51 <Eddi|zuHause> but even besides that, the capturing was all wrong... i could move around in the window, but if i moved to the left 10% of it, i couldn't leave that left 10% anymore
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12:16:10 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick dismissed a review for pull request #7947: Fix #7945: Add cost of clearing the sloped tile when placing a dock https://git.io/JfWDg
12:16:10 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7947: Fix #7945: Add cost of clearing the sloped tile when placing a dock https://git.io/JvTH0
12:26:30 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7918: Fix 3c047b1: AIGroup.GetProfitLastYear could get values different than those displayed in gui https://git.io/Jvek6
12:28:28 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7890: Fix #6452: Reset only editable and visible settings from GUI https://git.io/Jexqi
12:30:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick dismissed a review for pull request #7883: Fix: Ensure a minimum gap of water upon generating terrain with original generator https://git.io/JvjNC
12:30:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7883: Fix: Ensure a minimum gap of water upon generating terrain with original generator https://git.io/JeNQn
12:32:17 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7822: Fix #7670: Cache the origin tile to prevent recurring calls to the road pathfinder when a vehicle is blocked by another https://git.io/JegbJ
12:33:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7661: Codechange: Rework 'start_date' parameter for AIs as a game setting https://git.io/fjMsZ
12:35:18 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7503: Feature: Add aircraft type dropdown in Autoreplace window https://git.io/fjqQz
12:35:39 <argoneus> would you guys recommend any 32bpp packs?
12:35:47 <argoneus> raw zbase looks kind of... boring
12:36:27 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7376: More than max_no_competitors could be created in network games https://git.io/fjvY8
12:37:53 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7193: Fix #6468: Load correct version of AI as specified during the time of its save. https://git.io/fhHI1
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14:10:00 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8268: Change: Sort cargo payment rates legend in order of (initial) cost instead of alphabetically https://git.io/JJOvp
14:12:59 <Borg> _dp_: is your city mania GS opensourced?
14:13:16 <_dp_> Borg, it's not a GS and it's not opensourced
14:13:31 <_dp_> Borg, closest thing you can get is luukland server sources
14:14:38 <Borg> _dp_: and that city builder things? are they GS? or sth else?
14:15:08 <_dp_> Borg, which things exactly? xD
14:16:01 <Borg> there are few servers.... CITYBUILDER V2... APHID's CITIBUILDER...
14:16:38 <_dp_> Borg, those aren't citymania servers :p
14:16:52 <_dp_> aphid's gs is opensourced
14:17:00 <Borg> basically.. im looking for sth a bit competetive to add to my server..
14:17:27 <_dp_> Borg, either simple cb or aphids
14:17:52 <_dp_> simple cb is basically a poor man's version of novapolis cb
14:18:17 <Borg> I dont want to patch server.... GS preffered tho..
14:18:47 <Borg> and it doesnt have any bells and whistless.. all I want to change how cities grow...
14:18:50 <_dp_> Borg, imo the best one for competitive cb
14:20:05 <_dp_> Borg, but if you want to just change city growth probably about half of all gamescipts fit the description xD
14:20:49 <Borg> yeah.. but I want allso those nice text in city window.. that you need this and that PAX/MAIL..
14:20:56 <Borg> later you need this amount of goods.. etc
14:21:49 <_dp_> I think all town gamescripts do that in way or the other
14:22:22 <Borg> holy moly.. simple CB doesnt look all that simple ;)
14:22:38 <_dp_> Borg, yeah, it's probably the most complex one xxD
14:23:05 <Borg> can you recommend anything simpler.. preffer like only PAX/MAIL/GOODS ..
14:23:09 <_dp_> Borg, also if you ever use it with firs keep in mind it was designed with firs 1.3 in mind, with firs 2/3/4 all cargos get messed up
14:23:11 <Borg> I want to fit it.. to BSPI
14:25:14 <_dp_> Borg, I didn't play much with anything but simple cb
14:25:35 <_dp_> just aphids a bit, that may be simpler idk
14:25:45 <Borg> lets check wiki and banans then..
14:26:13 <_dp_> if you just want requirements for all towns not just claim-one citybuilder thing Renewed City Growth GS seems popular
15:39:21 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl opened pull request #8269: Fix #8269: Set invalid road and tram types for rail tunnel ends https://git.io/JJOUq
15:39:50 <LordAro> i feel like that fix number is incorrect
15:42:35 <_dp_> LordAro, wdym? it's redudant in pr title yes but for commit seems right, no?
15:43:44 <LordAro> i didn't look at the commit
15:43:48 <LordAro> just the message here
15:44:16 <b_jonas> I should try FIRS for my next game probably (or at least look at it in a scratch cheat game and enable it in the main game if I like it). I say next game, but I don't know when that will be, because it's 2086 and I still see plenty of things to improve on this map.
15:45:19 <LordAro> _dp_: oh, no, still weird
15:45:27 <LordAro> why is the PR number in the commit message?
15:45:43 <LordAro> surely that's unintentional, it's not fixing itself
15:46:33 <_dp_> LordAro, ehm, because I added it to a commit, why not?
15:51:43 <Wolf01> Eddi|zuHause: you were pissed off by that fullscreen/window problem, I'm pissed off by the fact I can't set the sound effect device for terraria, music goes to the right output, sound effects still go to the default device and there is no way to make it work without changing the default device (which I don't wat to change)
16:08:04 <milek7> pretty weird that music/effect uses different output stream at all
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16:12:09 <_dp_> #8111 is very weird, how is anyone supposed to increase savegame version now? bump it in that IsSavegameVersionUntil or what?
16:12:10 <nielsm> milek7: since around 1998-2000 I suppose that's weird, between 1990-2000 it was quite common
16:12:31 <nielsm> since you typically had music played either via a MIDI synth or via CDDA
16:12:43 <nielsm> and sound effects played via digital channel
16:12:50 <nielsm> OTTD just does as back then
16:14:40 <LordAro> _dp_: "Fix <foo>:" where foo is what you are fixing
16:15:05 <_dp_> LordAro, do you want me to also open an issue for 3-line change?
16:15:32 <LordAro> either nothing at all, or the thing that originally introduced the issue
16:16:21 <_dp_> LordAro, fix # links the issue not the cause
16:16:36 <_dp_> i guess I can do fix nrt as well
16:16:55 <_dp_> but most fixes just reference the issue
16:17:06 <LordAro> not the PR that fixes it
16:17:21 <LordAro> which, somewhat by definition, you can't know until you open the PR
16:17:36 <LordAro> commit hash is fine as well
16:17:42 <_dp_> LordAro, well, there is no issue, and pr and issue is pretty much the same thing
16:18:06 <LordAro> why are you making this complicated? surely you know all this? :p
16:18:48 <_dp_> LordAro, as someone who does blame quite often I fell like it's a good idea to include some # in commit message ;)
16:19:29 <LordAro> squashed PRs get the PR number inserted at the end
16:19:48 <LordAro> other than that, the GH ui usually suffices
16:28:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #8115: GS methods to let company have exclusive access to the industry https://git.io/JfZt7
16:29:04 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #8269: Set invalid road and tram types for rail tunnel ends https://git.io/JJOUq
16:42:46 <Borg> b_jonas: not bad.. im at 2039 or so :)
16:43:02 <Borg> waiting for some farms to close....
16:43:13 <Borg> and I will try to build steel chain.. to overflow my goods HUB
16:59:29 <b_jonas> Borg: I added vacuum trains
17:01:21 <b_jonas> I had a passenger network connecting only cities, skipping other towns, so they were far away enough from each other, then I converted them to vacuum trains, but then vacuum trains that can go 4000 km/h were invented, and suddenly the cities are too close, I'll have to improve the vac layout so trains can do long stretches between faraway cities, but still service all the cities
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18:06:21 <b_jonas> I quite enjoy the Industrial Stations Renewal newgrf. Is there something like that, a newgrf with stations for various industries and cargo types, but for FIRS temperate basic?
18:18:16 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8269: Set invalid road and tram types for rail tunnel ends https://git.io/JJOtv
18:26:09 <Borg> I dont use such weird stuff.. its basically vanilla..
18:26:17 <Borg> I just added one loco: X2025
18:26:29 <Borg> its basicaly improved X2001 :) because I love how it looks
18:31:24 <b_jonas> so in FIRS "temperate" basically means UK, which is why it doesn't have grain production?
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19:45:51 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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20:23:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: i use Pulseaudio, there i can set up output device for each program individually
20:51:47 <Wolf01> Eddi|zuHause: I use ear trumpet (on windows), does the same, but software wise, so if the software uses 2 channels I'm fucked :P
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21:27:31 <_dp_> crazy idea of the day: every release make a vote and remove one setting
21:29:53 <b_jonas> _dp_: you already have a tier system for basic vs advanced settings, you could have the vote decide to move a setting up from basic, or remove it if it's already in advanced
21:30:32 <b_jonas> _dp_: except maybe you could fast-track remove settings that are now available as newgrfs
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21:30:52 <_dp_> b_jonas, that solves nothing, first thing everyone does is switching it to expert to see them all
21:31:48 <_dp_> if anything I think it would be better to remove those categories completely as it only adds to confusion
21:32:49 <_dp_> don't think anyone looks at settings and thinks "hmm, what should I change today, guess I'll go for something advanced"
21:32:56 <_dp_> everyone just looks for setting to do x
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22:42:35 <Eddi|zuHause> great game... i have 100 inhabitants and 193 free work places... i rescue a bunch of people, and get a popup saying i should lower unemployment below 7%... then i get immediately a popup that i was successful
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23:25:34 <_dp_> focus works weirdly indeed
23:28:56 <_dp_> opening and switching windows doesn't take focus from chat and some buttons don't either
23:31:31 <_dp_> hm, isn't shifting bools incorrect? (g->replace_protection ? 0 : 1) | (_ctrl_pressed << 1)
23:32:49 <_dp_> especially in that context xD
23:39:46 <LordAro> _dp_: dunno about incorreft, but it's definitely very strange
23:40:56 <_dp_> LordAro, iirc bools aren't guaranteed to convert to ins as 1 and there are even some cases where compilers use that for optimizations
23:55:55 <michi_cc> _dp_: For c++, false -> 0 and true -> 1 IS guaranteed.
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