IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-06-30
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00:50:35 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8249: CMake: Not possible to cross-compile due to settinsgen/strgen https://git.io/JJvbJ
00:57:56 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Andrew350 opened issue #8250: NRT: Company infrastructure window always omits last road/tramtype https://git.io/JJfRr
01:16:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] giordy commented on issue #8219: Inexplicably low redraw rate on multiplayer server https://git.io/JfHiF
01:17:43 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #8249: CMake: Not possible to cross-compile due to settinsgen/strgen https://git.io/JJvbJ
02:08:46 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
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02:45:30 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJfuk
04:43:19 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/Jf9yI
04:49:06 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJf2e
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05:49:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJfaP
05:54:14 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJfa1
06:23:37 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8244: Fix #8216: Don't show floating text on autoreplace if cost is 0 https://git.io/JJfVX
06:32:23 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8238: Update documentation to acknowledge integer type mismatch in certain admin packets https://git.io/JJfV7
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08:20:37 * andythenorth has registered grf.farm
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08:47:42 <LordAro> andythenorth: it works!
08:48:05 <andythenorth> I get a gandi parking page
08:48:16 <LordAro> probably cached somewhere
08:51:41 <andythenorth> the AWS instructions for setting up a http site are pretty good
08:51:56 <andythenorth> I'll do the cloudfront bollocks next to get https
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09:28:22 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJfit
09:41:13 <andythenorth> hmm looks like a long default TTL
09:44:37 <andythenorth> remote website testing services see it working
09:44:49 <andythenorth> looks like Virgin have cached DNS results
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10:18:22 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge commented on issue #8249: CMake: Not possible to cross-compile due to settinsgen/strgen https://git.io/JJvbJ
10:31:27 <andythenorth> I suspect the next 72 hours are going to be mostly me moaning about TTL
10:32:03 <LordAro> i'd be surprised if it was more than 48
11:01:27 <andythenorth> you're right, the default was 48hrs
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11:46:07 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJfyA
11:59:46 <andythenorth> hurrah my Virgin DNS refreshed
12:17:03 <planetmaker> hey ho :) grf.farm sounds... excellent :)
12:25:47 <andythenorth> planetmaker I did wonder if we could somehow how keep bundles alive, I do like it
12:26:02 <andythenorth> but ultimately I could solve this by clicking on some buttons, so I did :P
12:26:13 <andythenorth> bundles was much appreciated
12:27:41 <planetmaker> andythenorth, yes, we can keep it alive. I have no plans to shut that down
12:29:03 <planetmaker> I simply currently miss time to maintain much of the services or do much else. However the server will remain available and bundles is not much more than a file dump with a http server attached anyway
12:30:17 <planetmaker> and if s/o or somewhat needs ssh there... I shall happily install a root key for you or another trusted person so that it can be reasonably used should I be temporarily not available
12:30:38 <planetmaker> (and there's always ^spike^ who has root on everything there, too
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14:18:31 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8249: CMake: Not possible to cross-compile due to settinsgen/strgen https://git.io/JJvbJ
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15:21:00 <andythenorth> will I automate uploading these with GH actions?
15:21:09 <andythenorth> or just do it manually only on tagged versions?
15:26:09 <LordAro> why not automate uploading these with GH actions only on tagged versions? :p
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15:33:49 <andythenorth> supermop_Home o/
15:34:00 <andythenorth> LordAro yes that could be done
15:34:12 <andythenorth> that automation XKCD would apply, how often do I tag?
15:34:27 <andythenorth> bundles did it for 100+ projects, definitely worth it
15:34:31 <andythenorth> I have....5 or so
15:35:01 <andythenorth> I am not averse to learning GH Actions though
15:36:34 <LordAro> andythenorth: if you're doing GH actions anyway, it's not a lot more effort on top
15:36:56 <andythenorth> I'm only doing it to get the docs publishing tbh
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15:37:35 <andythenorth> if I do it manually, I'll probably brown bag at some point
16:13:35 <supermop_Home> hi andythenorth
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16:26:51 <supermop_Home> i ended up buying neither a train nor a box of Japanese records
16:27:01 <supermop_Home> instead i bough yet another coffee scale
17:11:17 <Eddi|zuHause> a coffee scale is where you rate it from 1 to 10? :p
17:31:48 <supermop_Home> Eddi|zuHause maybe i will use imperial and rate it out of 12
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18:26:17 <arikover> What sort of engines?
18:34:08 <andythenorth> only of interest to people recreating British railways in OpenTTD
18:34:14 <andythenorth> minimal gameplay value
18:34:31 <andythenorth> overlaps existing engines, but with moderately worse stats in all areas
18:40:58 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Parameter?
18:41:16 <FLHerne> Or just another roster...
18:41:28 <andythenorth> I have a Joker parameter
18:41:38 <andythenorth> turns on the 08, snowplough etc
18:42:17 <andythenorth> they'd go in the bit of the tech tree that says "Lolz: Silly trains that don't have any gameplay purpose but look nice."
18:42:25 <FLHerne> andythenorth: I think adding more variety to the normal roster is probably better value-for-time?
18:42:43 <andythenorth> or I could do the European or US rosters :P
18:42:45 <FLHerne> Things like the three identical generations of Shoebox
18:43:25 <FLHerne> And the freight kettles still look somewhat unloved
18:44:05 <andythenorth> they're a bit non-descript
18:44:18 <FLHerne> Maybe a 60 instead of the 59, so they aren't identical at TTD scale?
18:45:04 <andythenorth> the 60 is the Vanguard, but it's a never-built class 38
18:45:17 <andythenorth> that was one of the others I was considering
18:46:02 <andythenorth> it's all very realistic to have endless class 73, 37 and 59/66
18:46:20 <andythenorth> if only we had daylength :P
18:46:33 <andythenorth> I could do 20 year generations not 30
18:46:43 <andythenorth> anyway, daylength is solved in GS
18:46:48 <andythenorth> so I could redesign for that
18:49:26 <arikover> andythenorth: I find the Grub/Gronk quite useful for small shunting (factory to freight station)
18:49:40 <andythenorth> I use it for little novelty lines
18:52:58 <arikover> The Grub is also nice for early tram-like service (low density passenger), or as a low-cost metro.
18:53:40 * andythenorth looking up never-built british engines
18:54:37 <nielsm> so should we add a feature for "scripting properties" on newgrf items?
18:54:39 <andythenorth> and I wanted to use more sheds
18:54:44 <andythenorth> nielsm explain more? :)
18:55:10 <nielsm> let things add a list of arbitrary fourcc-named properties that scripts can query
18:55:41 <nielsm> to allow newgrf to better explain themselves to scripts how they're "supposed" to be used
18:56:09 <nielsm> like have a "GENR" property where engines with the same value are logically "same generation"
18:57:03 <andythenorth> that sounds dangerously close to the arbitrary props I wanted for var 61 :)
18:57:04 <nielsm> or a FRTP and PASP set of properties that indicate how preferred they are supposed to be for freight and passengers
18:57:54 <andythenorth> unless it's hidden to newgrf, I would abuse it :)
18:58:00 <nielsm> or ALTG for "alternative groups", a generation/tech tree GS could allow a player to pick one of several alternatives to get
18:59:30 <nielsm> either way, just a generic way to let newgrf specify stuff that can be queried later, but otherwise has no effect in the base game
19:00:00 <andythenorth> you think the user bits might be a poor solution to that? :P
19:00:43 <andythenorth> newgrf trains have a prop with arbitrary bits
19:00:49 <andythenorth> can be used in certain queries
19:00:53 <andythenorth> afaik, it's mostly useless
19:01:54 <andythenorth> prop 25 User-defined bit mask to set when checking veh. var. 42
19:02:10 <andythenorth> can obviously be used outside var 42, but is of very limited value
19:02:48 <andythenorth> there's a certain kind of person who can envisage how to combine bitmask values in a way that's actually productive there
19:02:53 <andythenorth> and then there's the rest of us
19:04:26 <andythenorth> anyway, has anyone tried the daylength GS yet?
19:04:53 <andythenorth> I did look at it, but it (a) confused me (b) is incompatible with any reloading of newgrfs
19:05:05 <andythenorth> and I only have time to play games to test newgrfs
19:05:49 <andythenorth> potentially it solves daylength, but it has had crickets response on forums
19:06:14 <andythenorth> shows the difference between 'what players say they care about' and 'what they actually care about'
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19:12:57 <andythenorth> I had to restrain myself, buying domains on AWS would be very easy :P
19:13:05 <arikover> andythenorth: daylength GS? Are we talking about the same daylength feature included in JGR Patchpack?
19:13:19 <andythenorth> the daylength GS I linked in forums
19:15:29 <arikover> I fail to understand why you call it Daylength GS. It's called tech advance, right?
19:15:44 <nielsm> yes it changes the speed tech gets introduced at
19:15:51 <nielsm> relative to the speed things move around the map
19:16:19 <andythenorth> it's an implementation of daylength
19:16:27 <arikover> But it does not change production rate of industries, right?
19:17:15 <nielsm> if you change the production per tick of industries you change the balance between elements of the economy
19:18:24 <andythenorth> afaict, there is a small cohort who want daylength because it reduces industry and town production
19:18:34 <andythenorth> but those people could write a newgrf already
19:18:49 <andythenorth> I suspect what they see as a feature, is to other people a bug
19:19:04 <nielsm> firs already allows you to change the base production rate of primaries, right?
19:19:12 <andythenorth> not in parameters
19:19:16 <andythenorth> but it could be done
19:19:25 <andythenorth> we talked about me adding a production scaling param
19:19:43 <andythenorth> afaict, there was also a small cohort who want daylength to make travel times realistic
19:19:43 <arikover> Well I tried daylength because you can basically service an industry with fewer vehicles.
19:19:47 <andythenorth> but those people are weird
19:20:08 <andythenorth> arikover good, so I didn't imagine that case :)
19:20:37 <nielsm> have anyone made a half scale train set? :)
19:20:53 <andythenorth> so lower production rates, or bigger vehicles would both solve your desire arikover ?
19:20:55 <nielsm> everything is half size, except capacities and power
19:21:05 <nielsm> so you can have twice as long trains in the same number of tiles
19:21:42 <nielsm> you could probably even just take the original scale sprites and put into the 2x scale graphics instead
19:21:44 <arikover> andythenorth: Well I guess. I also like time passing slower.
19:22:01 <nielsm> the annoying part would be making new rail and station graphics :P
19:22:09 <andythenorth> nielsm there's a capacity parameter for Iron Horse :P
19:22:15 <andythenorth> achieves same result, but not visually
19:22:52 <nielsm> part of my thought was that you should be able to send longer trains around without the trains being 4x the size of the industries on the map
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19:24:52 <andythenorth> nielsm changing the Horse capacity parameter gives 4/8 vehicles with 30 tonnes capacity
19:25:06 <andythenorth> varies a bit by date
19:25:16 <andythenorth> 1.5* the default value
19:25:56 <arikover> andythenorth: I'm not a big fan of Daylength, mind you.
19:26:04 <andythenorth> hmm 1.33* the default, I checked the code
19:26:08 <nielsm> yeah you can do that, it just makes some rather chubby-looking trains :P
19:26:12 <andythenorth> arikover why not?
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19:26:16 <dP> nielsm, do sets of people who want realism and who can do content even intersect?
19:26:43 <andythenorth> dP me and pikka?
19:27:08 <arikover> andythenorth: I like it, but I'm not a hardcore fan.
19:27:56 <andythenorth> any particular things about it?
19:28:01 <dP> andythenorth, you want realism? o_O
19:28:12 <andythenorth> I've been told I'm obsessed with it
19:28:54 <nielsm> it looks to me more like you focus on gameplay progression with a sprinkle of belivability
19:29:07 <andythenorth> mostly I focus on drawing trains I like
19:29:15 <andythenorth> everything else is post-hoc rationalisation
19:29:35 <andythenorth> some of the trains I like drawing are fake
19:33:47 <supermop_Home> what i want is probably not 'daylength'
19:34:08 <supermop_Home> also i don't find new trains come to quickly
19:34:23 <andythenorth> I find that it takes 30 game years to replace all the old trains
19:34:28 <supermop_Home> maybe if i played on huge maps i would,
19:34:31 <andythenorth> then new ones appear
19:34:54 <nielsm> well you should do like with mobile phones, only buy every second gen
19:35:26 <supermop_Home> but on maps similar to original size, i have no problem, or i even find myself waiting for new trains
19:35:55 <supermop_Home> my problem is probably somewhat related to production, but not uiformly
19:36:42 <andythenorth> I find early game, the Horse trains are nerfed
19:36:47 <andythenorth> so I want new ones sooner
19:36:57 <andythenorth> but after 1930, progression is much too fast
19:37:36 <nielsm> more different early trains
19:37:46 <nielsm> early steam engine development was wild and experimental
19:37:53 <andythenorth> I played some original OTTD baseset recently, the train progression is borderline bizarre
19:38:05 <andythenorth> there's no concept of roles, only more or less useless engines
19:38:09 <supermop_Home> it's more that i often reach headway capacity of a line
19:38:37 <andythenorth> I have ideas for that in NARS Horse
19:38:45 <andythenorth> but I never chose a route to go
19:38:59 <andythenorth> if we accept short trains (unrealistic for US, but eh)
19:39:05 <supermop_Home> and can't fit in a mix of local and express, or freight
19:39:06 <andythenorth> then capacity could increase severely
19:39:23 <andythenorth> 40t could become 80t
19:39:34 <andythenorth> I also considered requiring a new railtype for the heavier trains
19:39:43 <andythenorth> Railroad Tycoon did something along those lines
19:40:13 <nielsm> heavy rail and high speed rail be separate?
19:40:43 <nielsm> heavy rail is limited to 160 km/h while high speed can't carry heavy freight due to axle load
19:41:06 <supermop_Home> for industries, idk if i actually consistently find production too high or too low
19:41:39 <dP> btw, speaking of old trains, it would be awesome to have a sane way of upgrading the rail type
19:42:06 <dP> simplest solution would be an option to let old trains run on new rails, kinda like it is with elrail
19:42:08 <supermop_Home> sometimes its like, it only really makes sense to serve this once every 90 days, and that's sort of odd to plan around
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19:42:12 <andythenorth> supermop_Home are you specifically thinking of Steeltown?
19:42:22 <andythenorth> production ramps up horribly as new cargo flows come on stream
19:42:32 <supermop_Home> once everything is gung ho
19:42:35 <andythenorth> once you have 4 inputs the output grows fast
19:42:40 <andythenorth> and then down the chain
19:42:43 <supermop_Home> the production is huge
19:42:50 <supermop_Home> but its very deterministic
19:42:55 <andythenorth> but it tends to stabilise, unless you keep adding mines
19:43:10 <supermop_Home> and you are free to carry only like 60% if you want
19:43:27 <andythenorth> tempting as it is, I probably won't optimise vehicle progression for Steeltown
19:43:30 <andythenorth> it would be good though
19:43:57 <andythenorth> if I write a God Mode GS
19:44:03 <andythenorth> it could control both FIRS and the vehicles
19:44:06 <supermop_Home> in steel town i often find i really need ensp to make a raw material service make sense
19:44:18 <supermop_Home> but at gung ho its too much
19:44:23 <andythenorth> you can tone it down
19:44:26 <supermop_Home> so i have the gh level set lower
19:44:37 <andythenorth> 200% not 300% is more relaxing
19:45:24 <supermop_Home> i like steel town as it seems to work best for a modern urban economy
19:45:51 <supermop_Home> but quickly takes all capacity, so you need a duplicate passenger network
19:46:29 <supermop_Home> personally idk if i am particularly interested in a north American horse
19:47:03 <supermop_Home> except perhaps as a 'what could have been' if they hadn't abandoned passenger service
19:47:25 <andythenorth> " During World War II 15% of America's steel making capacity crossed over the Hot Metal Bridge, up to 180 tons per hour."
19:47:35 <supermop_Home> the north American railroad i am most interested in is the subway....
19:48:05 <andythenorth> there's a newgrf for NA subways no?
19:49:05 <supermop_Home> not that i need it to be exactly prototypical
19:49:43 <supermop_Home> not a fan of the art style
19:50:07 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8249: CMake: Not possible to cross-compile due to settinsgen/strgen https://git.io/JJvbJ
19:50:12 <supermop_Home> a horse style, genericized, foster-ized set would be nice
19:50:59 <supermop_Home> i don't need to choose between the Alstom, Bombardier, and Kawasaki equivalents for which 2010s train i'm going to buy
19:54:29 <supermop_Home> andythenorth i still think a japan horse has a lot of potential
19:55:08 <supermop_Home> for the 1067mm vs SG difference, high volume commuter, niche freight
19:55:46 <supermop_Home> instead of Rail ELRL NG Metro
19:56:25 <supermop_Home> split the difference between metro and SG emu, and add monorail as the 'weird' gauge
19:56:46 <supermop_Home> NG ELNG ELRL Mono
19:57:01 <supermop_Home> for japan termite
19:58:13 <supermop_Home> idk if the old mockup list i made would still hold balanced vs current IH
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20:15:09 <supermop_Home> "Due to the imbalance of ironmaking and steelmaking facilities at the two plants, rail shipments of molten iron "hot metal" were sent from Campbell to Brier Hill from 1937 until 1979. "
20:16:36 <supermop_Home> "The company abruptly closed its Campbell Works and furloughed 5,000 workers on September 19, 1977,"
20:16:55 <supermop_Home> where did the molten iron com from those last 2 years?
20:19:38 <andythenorth> maybe they kept a stockpile
20:19:47 <andythenorth> in giant vacuum flasks
20:21:01 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJJIb
20:21:19 <frosch123> i think the vacuum is not important if the flask is large enough
20:22:01 <supermop_Home> maybe it took 2 years for the furnace to cool down
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20:56:47 <andythenorth> non-linear gaps between generations?
20:58:21 <nielsm> what might be interesting also: lots of different engines made available, but production of them stops early if nobody builds them
21:00:27 <nielsm> but somthing like from 1850 to 1920 a new steam engine design comes every 5 to 10 years, some of them very specialized
21:00:44 <nielsm> and then things settle down into more clear roles and slower development
21:04:18 <nielsm> and some of those early designs get obsoleted fast so you may not use all of them, depending on when you're building new routes versus expanding existing
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21:27:50 <frosch123> hmm, there are some NOT_REACHED in the script api
21:28:13 <frosch123> i guess ais can force crash ottd :p
21:28:35 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone opened pull request #8251: Fix: 8250: NRT: Company infrastructure window always omits last road/… https://git.io/JJJq2
21:37:02 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8251: Fix: 8250: NRT: Company infrastructure window always omits last road/… https://git.io/JJJq7
21:57:23 <Corns[m]> how can i tell which game settings can be changed during multiplayer?
21:57:47 <Corns[m]> e.g. yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol can be changed but not airspeed factor
21:58:55 *** Corns[m] is now known as CornsMcGowan[m]
21:59:58 <andythenorth> so anyone fancy writing a GS? :P
22:00:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone updated pull request #8251: Fix: 8250: NRT: Company infrastructure window always omits last road/… https://git.io/JJJq2
22:00:36 <andythenorth> planetmaker frosch123 :P
22:01:40 <CornsMcGowan[m]> inb4 bananas moves domain
22:01:42 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone commented on pull request #8251: Fix: 8250: NRT: Company infrastructure window always omits last road/… https://git.io/JJJmQ
22:03:26 <frosch123> andythenorth: i am just exploring writing a new gs
22:04:16 <frosch123> finally got a good idea
22:05:19 <frosch123> andythenorth: as new dictator over grf hosting, will you review them for quality?
22:05:53 <supermop_Home> ugh i always start in 1990 like a year before the 135 freight wagons come
22:06:09 <CornsMcGowan[m]> "this new industry turns people into-"
22:06:24 <CornsMcGowan[m]> * "this new industry turns passengers into-"
22:07:58 <frosch123> andythenorth: why does the hotel accept pax twice?
22:08:43 <dP> I don't want to write GS but I may do a server :p
22:08:54 * dP just hopes I won't have to fork firs
22:09:19 <andythenorth> dP thanks for 404 report :)
22:09:24 <andythenorth> I know cause, will fix
22:15:53 <andythenorth> frosch123 accepts and produces I guess
22:15:57 <andythenorth> that needs fixed
22:19:51 <andythenorth> frosch123 the idea is a secret? :)
22:22:19 <frosch123> but you know, that i focus on weird track setups
22:22:35 <frosch123> it won't be a busybee
22:23:00 <frosch123> and definitely no city builder
22:23:35 <frosch123> also no military content
22:23:51 <frosch123> can i make more obvious statements?
22:24:42 <frosch123> andythenorth: i certainly have to consider infinite score exploits
22:25:41 <frosch123> i won't write docs. gh releases are good enough
22:25:43 <andythenorth> once TrueBrain has registered our stichting we could get our own TLDs?
22:25:47 <frosch123> probably same for george
22:28:02 <frosch123> andythenorth: .gs is a valid country tld
22:30:05 <frosch123> though my browser does not trust the certificate of their *offical* issuer
22:30:25 <frosch123> how many people live on the sandwich islands?
22:30:48 <frosch123> 30 people have their own tld?
22:36:06 <supermop_Home> the question is rather, why do 30 people live on the south sandwich islands
22:36:42 <frosch123> supermop_Home: apparently there is a research laboratory
22:37:12 <supermop_Home> less 'live there' and more 'have to be there for work' i guess
22:38:30 <andythenorth> hmm did we ever find out why windowshading the train window increases fps?
22:41:57 <andythenorth> oh video is on devzone, so no longer works
22:54:17 <CornsMcGowan[m]> pathfinding for two or more simultaneous rails is tricky
22:54:49 <frosch123> is that the reason monorail was invented?
22:54:53 <CornsMcGowan[m]> how does choo choo do it with just the A* library?
22:55:41 <CornsMcGowan[m]> i implemented a tool similar to factorio's railplanner, only works for one track at the moment
22:57:48 <CornsMcGowan[m]> i'm thinking about adding an option to build two simultaneous tracks but the problem becomes much more complicated
23:01:04 <nielsm> cheap approach: treat the map as 2x2 tile cells and pathfind between those
23:01:19 <nielsm> at least I think that can work
23:01:51 <frosch123> though i did not read it
23:02:33 <CornsMcGowan[m]> he's been publishing a lot of multi-agent pathfinding papers, mostly for amazon robotic warehouse stuff it seems
23:02:43 <CornsMcGowan[m]> i'll read the trAIns paper ty :)
23:03:07 <frosch123> multi-agent stuff usually is about pathfinding with limited knowledge
23:04:27 <nielsm> superficially multi-agent sounds like pathfinding in an environment where agents need to get around independently on potentially intersecting routes, with limited or no cooperation
23:04:30 <CornsMcGowan[m]> oh? i thought the domain space would be 100% known (in at least the robot warehouse scenario)
23:05:39 <nielsm> yeah the issue is that if you want them to have 100% knowledge of every agent's paths you'd get lots of downtime with synchronisation and maybe pointless waiting, and instead it might be better to take a best guess even if it might conflict with someone else
23:08:09 <nielsm> another possible approach for parallel rail tracks: have higher cost for tiles that don't have similar sloped (or flat) land next by, so you for the most part find a route for one track that will have space for the second next by
23:08:39 <nielsm> then build the second track in segments along the first track, and if a segment can't build next by try to find a separate route for that segment
23:08:44 <nielsm> and you might need some backtracking then
23:10:24 <supermop_Home> andythenorth small ore hoppers are cheaper per ton that medium or large
23:10:45 <supermop_Home> not complaining really as i like the look of the small ones
23:11:31 <CornsMcGowan[m]> that could work
23:11:33 <b_jonas> supermop_Home: don't they also weigh more or longer?
23:11:36 <CornsMcGowan[m]> sounds like a lot of backtracking though
23:11:45 <b_jonas> because those can metter when you put them on a train
23:11:50 <dP> just give the second track bonus for going along the first one
23:12:02 <nielsm> that's also a possibility
23:12:06 <andythenorth> supermop_Home sounds like a bug, the costs are just done with maths * unit length
23:12:29 <nielsm> and be careful what happens if the second track ends up on the wrong side of the first :P
23:12:49 <supermop_Home> the difference is on the order of $10-$40
23:13:26 <supermop_Home> enough you'd only notice if you were just checking to see if you'd be penalized for using the cuter small hoppers...
23:13:56 <andythenorth> it's about 4.4 / ton vs 4.5 / ton?
23:14:12 <andythenorth> just be rounding issues
23:14:24 <supermop_Home> for the 135 kmh generation,
23:14:44 <CornsMcGowan[m]> omg trAIns rolls their own priority queue implementation
23:14:49 <supermop_Home> based on small hopper you'd expect a long hopper to be 1944 quid
23:14:53 <CornsMcGowan[m]> ty for the tips
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23:15:48 <andythenorth> yeah rounding issues :)
23:16:00 <supermop_Home> medium you'd expect to be 1458, but its 1464
23:18:16 <CornsMcGowan[m]> smol hopper can navigate tighter turns
23:18:27 <CornsMcGowan[m]> or at least penalised less on tight turns
23:18:41 <CornsMcGowan[m]> given curve speed limit is determined by wagon count between turns
23:18:54 <supermop_Home> andy add high speed turn bonus to small ore hoppers?
23:19:05 <supermop_Home> for high speed ore trains?
23:23:36 <CornsMcGowan[m]> i believe its not necessary
23:24:00 <CornsMcGowan[m]> or immersive :^) shorter wagons are more unstable IRL i thinkh
23:24:05 <CornsMcGowan[m]> hence why theres no 150kph variant in iron horse
23:24:41 <supermop_Home> open gangway ore hopper:
23:25:31 <supermop_Home> one continuous hopper made of 10 hopper segments?
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23:28:53 <supermop_Home> do they use something like this for ballast?
23:33:36 <CornsMcGowan[m]> your poor house
23:33:51 <CornsMcGowan[m]> must be shaking itself to bits over time lmao
23:34:48 <supermop_Home> the railfreight guards van in there is 100
23:34:55 <andythenorth> I have a OO version of that engine
23:35:03 <andythenorth> it is nuts, I just found it has opening cab doors
23:35:13 <andythenorth> this is not my childhood version :P
23:35:19 <supermop_Home> was looking for railfreight sectors N 47s the other day
23:35:36 <supermop_Home> couldn't find much for sale
23:35:46 <andythenorth> think my brother had one 20 years ago :P
23:35:50 <andythenorth> doesn't help much
23:36:16 <andythenorth> I now have 4 foot by 6 foot of train set
23:36:26 <andythenorth> and 10 foot by 10 foot by 3 foot of stored trains
23:37:51 <andythenorth> it was nice to have packages arrive during lockdown
23:38:52 <supermop_Home> 300 cubic feet of trains is a lot?
23:40:18 <CornsMcGowan[m]> do u have any layouts we can see
23:40:26 <andythenorth> it's just an oval
23:45:26 <supermop_Home> last night i had the insane idea to try to use Z track to model 1067mm gauge at N scale
23:46:41 <supermop_Home> and T to model some <2' gauge
23:47:18 <andythenorth> that probably has a name?
23:49:29 <supermop_Home> unfortunately t is too small to model 1067 at Z scall
23:50:07 <supermop_Home> and i am not crazy enough yet to scratch build 4.85mm track
23:50:24 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge commented on issue #8249: CMake: Not possible to cross-compile due to settinsgen/strgen https://git.io/JJvbJ
23:50:39 <supermop_Home> N and Z track does look super broad under Japanese body shells
23:56:09 <andythenorth> oof I should sleep
23:56:13 <andythenorth> tomorrow appears soon
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