IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-06-12
⏴ go to previous day
00:10:46 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz opened pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/Jf9yI
00:13:56 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/Jf9yI
00:17:38 *** Speeder has joined #openttd
00:20:56 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/Jf9y2
00:26:22 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/Jf9y1
00:28:36 <FLHerne> nielsm: Is that a desired outcome of the commit checker?
00:29:04 <nielsm> yes it's intentional it accepts that syntax and not the other
00:29:38 <nielsm> previously the commit checker actually required preprocessor commands to be indented before the # instead of after the #
00:29:56 <nielsm> but I think the standard actually requires # to be in the first column, or something like that
00:36:59 <FLHerne> nielsm: That only seems to be the case for pre-ANSI C
00:37:20 <FLHerne> Given that OTTD depends on C++11, isn't that a non-issue?
00:44:38 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] FLHerne commented on pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/Jf9S8
00:54:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/Jf9SD
01:06:17 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/Jf994
01:17:27 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/Jf9yI
01:30:52 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/Jf9Hx
01:42:41 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/Jf9yI
02:00:53 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/Jf9QF
02:25:12 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8204: cmake: make install DESTDIR="something" ignores GLOBAL_DIR option https://git.io/JfM9j
02:34:27 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Nik-mmzd commented on issue #8204: cmake: make install DESTDIR="something" ignores GLOBAL_DIR option https://git.io/JfM9j
02:35:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/Jf95k
03:12:04 *** LordAro has joined #openttd
03:20:10 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] pavloant commented on issue #8038: Fullscreen mode in MacOSX is almost unusable https://git.io/Jv1n7
03:55:15 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd
05:12:58 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
05:19:00 *** arikover` has joined #openttd
07:26:49 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
09:04:13 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
09:13:43 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JfHLh
09:17:21 *** Progman has joined #openttd
10:00:49 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog
10:35:58 *** argoneus has joined #openttd
10:36:32 <argoneus> I'm thinking of setting up a server for some friends, any grfs you'd consider mandatory?
10:36:35 <argoneus> or just vanilla is fine
10:42:11 <FLHerne> For a new player, probably not tbh
10:42:58 <FLHerne> Maybe eGRVTS or Road Hog, the default RVs aren't great
10:43:02 <argoneus> also am I blind or are the settings for realistic acceleration etc gone?
10:43:29 <argoneus> oh it was in advaced
10:44:05 <argoneus> im just going to assume the defaults are sane
10:44:22 <FLHerne> argoneus: Make orders non-stop by default
10:44:47 <FLHerne> (that really should *be* the default, but I don't think it is)
10:45:12 <FLHerne> Especially for new players it'll save a lot of hunting down lost trains
10:45:29 <FLHerne> and debugging stupid orders
10:45:58 <FLHerne> Oh, and the default mapgen settings are horrible
10:46:24 <FLHerne> They're carefully tuned to give a flat world with little ponds and far too many towns
10:46:43 <argoneus> ye I'll look over those
10:46:48 <argoneus> I usually just generate a scenario
10:46:55 <argoneus> until I'm happy with it and then load it on the server
10:47:11 <argoneus> any train sets that are like a better vanilla?
10:48:02 <argoneus> I know someone here made iron horse but im not sure if that's overkill
10:49:26 <arikover`> For the vehicles, it depends on when you're planning to start your game, I would say.
10:49:49 <Timberwolf> For a beginner it also depends how quickly they get the idea of refits.
10:51:15 *** argoneus4 has joined #openttd
10:51:27 <argoneus4> thanks internet, did I miss anything?
10:52:00 <FLHerne> only line since your last was <Timberwolf> For a beginner it also depends how quickly they get the idea of refits.
10:52:24 *** argoneus7 has joined #openttd
10:52:51 <Timberwolf> Vanilla has the advantage you can get a good network going before you have to refit anything, rather than the "why does the only open wagon I have access to not load iron ore?"
10:55:33 <arikover`> For 1920, vanilla trains are good for beginners. Iron Horse is also fine (a bit too many wagons for a beginner maybe). NARS 2.51 is also fine (a bit too many engines for a beginner maybe)
10:58:26 <Timberwolf> Road Hog and Iron Horse are excellent for a second game. "Now you've played it, try it with extra content."
10:59:02 *** argoneus79 has joined #openttd
10:59:12 <argoneus79> damn my client straight up broke
10:59:36 *** argoneus has joined #openttd
10:59:39 <andythenorth> someone should fork Iron Horse
10:59:43 <andythenorth> and delete the wagons
10:59:47 <andythenorth> Iron Small Horse
10:59:48 <argoneus> well I see messages twice, anyway
10:59:58 * andythenorth is adding more wagons right now
11:00:03 <Timberwolf> The balance is still really nice compared to vanilla, rather than something like 2cc where it's (somewhat more realistically) "congratulations, you spent your entire starting loan on one engine".
11:00:10 <argoneus> american road replacement set, av8, egrvts, opengfx trees/airports/trains, FISH
11:00:15 <argoneus> does this sound fine for a first game
11:01:11 <Timberwolf> andythenorth: Wooden Horse?
11:01:38 <argoneus> or is something too complex / missing something
11:01:51 <argoneus> i wanted to include chips/isr but they might get confused when they have so many stations that don't do anyting
11:02:26 *** argoneus3 has joined #openttd
11:02:40 <argoneus3> what is the last message I sent?
11:04:30 <arikover`> andythenorth: "someone should fork Iron Horse and delete the wagons" Like Iron Wild Horse. And then make an add-on set called Iron Saddle.
11:04:47 <arikover`> andythenorth: with all the wagons in it.
11:05:15 <argoneus3> actually ill just upgrade my client it's long overdue anyway
11:06:21 <andythenorth> could add all the trains I've drawn and then deleted
11:06:37 *** argoneus3 has joined #openttd
11:06:47 <arikover`> andythenorth: Iron Ghost Horse
11:07:02 *** argoneus3 is now known as argoneus
11:07:12 *** argoneus3 has joined #openttd
11:07:50 *** argoneus3 is now known as argoneus
11:08:31 <argoneus> so uh, does my list look fine to you guys?
11:08:55 <argoneus> I'll hook them up with FIRS and Iron Horse if they like it
11:13:38 <argoneus> hmm, what breakdowns do you guys like?
11:14:04 <argoneus> i guess reduced is a good compromise
11:14:06 <andythenorth> I turn them off, even though I know frosch disapproves
11:14:33 <argoneus> i guess running/construction costs should also be low
11:14:44 <argoneus> I hate when a game gives me so many options I don't know what to pick
11:14:50 <FLHerne> Breakdowns are just not an interesting/useful mechanic
11:15:36 <FLHerne> You can't really prevent them, so they're an annoyance that doesn't add any interest
11:15:50 <argoneus> it at least makes you keep depots around
11:16:30 <andythenorth> breakdowns are kind of fine in original TTD where the only sensible strategy is point-to-point, 1 train per track
11:16:46 <andythenorth> they're a distraction if you have a complex network
11:20:44 <Timberwolf> My problem with them is the reliability vs. breakdown chance curve, followed by the inability to set reliability consistently per vehicle.
11:21:25 <Timberwolf> There's not really that much benefit in buying a 100% reliability vehicle and servicing it frequently, it'll still break down constantly.
11:22:21 <Timberwolf> I had a go at patching the breakdown chance table many years ago, but I think it ended with me giving up in a "why Chris, why?" fashion.
11:24:55 <_dp_> espectially where defaults aren't exactly reasonable :p
11:25:32 <_dp_> like exclusive_rights, inflation, vehicle_breakdowns etc
11:31:04 <argoneus> hmm, if I generate a scenario on my pc, does it save all the settings too?
11:31:09 <argoneus> or does the server need the cfg too
11:32:31 <_dp_> if you load save/scenario on server it takes settings from save
11:32:40 <_dp_> for a new game it takes from config
11:33:45 <argoneus> er, all the settings?
11:33:54 <argoneus> like literally everything
11:34:34 <_dp_> not literally, only gameplay settings are in save, ui settings aren't
11:35:04 <argoneus> I meant even stuff like construction costs or economy settings
11:52:40 <_dp_> argoneus, yes, ofc, everything that affects the game
11:52:58 <_dp_> argoneus, otherwise it would just desync in mp if players didn't get all relevant settings from the same
12:07:37 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
12:08:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JfHsO
12:21:19 *** sla_ro|master2 has joined #openttd
12:52:59 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
13:06:14 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd
13:10:09 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JfHGA
13:15:58 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JfHZ3
13:18:31 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
13:30:58 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JfHZi
13:57:30 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
15:29:12 *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd
15:29:44 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
15:42:17 *** Lejving has joined #openttd
15:51:54 <argoneus> hmm, I seem to have an issue with my server
15:52:03 <argoneus> it seems to be a bit choppy, like the trains stop and go every few seconds
15:52:10 <argoneus> but resources aren't being used much
16:00:19 <_dp_> argoneus, what does fps command say?
16:01:11 <_dp_> also I assume you're not using that elitegame crap
16:04:49 <FLHerne> argoneus: Remember OTTD can only really use one thread for most stuff
16:05:15 <_dp_> some morons that sell crappy servers
16:05:21 <FLHerne> So if you have lots of CPU cores, average load might be low even if it's maxing out one
16:06:50 <_dp_> one core of any modern cpu is more than enough for pretty much everything openttd
16:08:14 <argoneus> well it seems to be running fine now
16:08:14 <FLHerne> Eh, there are some servers that my laptop struggles to get 5fps on
16:08:41 <FLHerne> Some newgrf town sets seem particularly bad, no idea what they're doing
16:08:58 <LordAro> argoneus: if it's a shared VPS, some other thing on the host could've been overusing the CPU
16:09:19 <argoneus> yeah that might be it
16:09:22 <argoneus> because it's running smooth now
16:09:32 <_dp_> may also be network issues
16:09:35 <argoneus> and when I ran top it said usage was like 6%
16:09:48 <_dp_> need to see tickrate to tell one from another
16:10:15 <argoneus> and tick times are <0.1ms
16:10:17 <_dp_> argoneus, on server? then cpu is ok, must be network
16:10:33 <argoneus> well it's playable anyway
16:10:41 <argoneus> the server lagging luckily doesn't change anything for the player
16:12:25 <_dp_> well, I wouldn't call it a pleasant experience :p
16:22:24 <argoneus> how do I transition from making boring railroads to fun railways
16:22:37 <argoneus> instead of just 7 length trains with giant stations at a huge distance
16:23:25 <argoneus> i see people build like 4 drive-through stations in a row and I don't get the purpose
16:30:58 <_dp_> argoneus, that largely depends on what you find fun, some like coop-style, some goal servers, some weirdos do realism and some just play whatever multiplayer
16:32:10 <argoneus> i just want to build a nice busy network without jams but I'm not sure where to start
16:32:18 <argoneus> it feels like you need to plan ahead of time rather than expanding
16:33:37 <argoneus> i guess to start with I should put larger gaps between my first double rail
16:33:53 <argoneus> like when I have a railroad where one goes there and one back, if I put a gap inbetween it should be easier to expand it
16:58:37 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
17:14:34 <EER> argoneus: I like to bring all the primary products to a single factory / steel mill / whatever and all the while trying to upgrade my network to run smoothly while just adding more and more load. YMMV ;)
17:15:12 <EER> And then when I start transporting all the goods, I enjoy seeing the spike in operating profit
17:19:29 <frosch123> EER: *ad:* you should play with silicon valley gs :)
17:48:04 *** Laedek_ has joined #openttd
18:17:35 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #8218: Add: [CMake] Use GNUInstallDirs to allow install paths customisation https://git.io/JfHu1
18:27:26 <andythenorth> I should figure out why cmake build fails for me
18:29:13 <glx> there are some links in a comment on your issue
19:08:22 <andythenorth> I miss peter1138
19:09:31 <DorpsGek> LordAro: peter1138 was last seen in #openttd 6 weeks, 3 days, 22 hours, 30 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <peter1138> I see I fucked everything up.
19:09:47 <LordAro> andythenorth: have you been forgetting lunch?
19:21:44 <supermop_Home> finally did some screenprinting
19:23:11 <supermop_Home> a little unambitious maybe
19:27:05 <supermop_Home> I don't like the logo
19:27:20 <supermop_Home> very half-assed graphic design
19:27:48 <andythenorth> colour weights are nice
19:28:10 <supermop_Home> like, what you might mockup if you needed to show a train in the background of a commercial, but the commercial was not about trains in any way, and you didn't want to use any real brand
19:29:40 <supermop_Home> loose the 'GC' or put it in a different typeface and i'd be a lot happier
19:29:44 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #8218: Add: [CMake] Use GNUInstallDirs to allow install paths customisation https://git.io/JfHu1
19:29:51 <supermop_Home> i like the overall colorblocking though
19:42:22 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JfH2r
19:45:51 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
19:58:09 <argoneus> i suppose focusing on one place at a time is a good idea
19:58:21 <argoneus> lets me reuse a lot of railroad
20:40:53 <supermop_Home> gah almost 3 pm and i forgot lunch
20:42:04 <andythenorth> need peter1138 back
21:52:21 <andythenorth> can you stalk him on strava LordAro ? :P
21:56:11 <Wolf01> I can stalk him on steam if you want
22:03:02 <andythenorth> I mean, he's probably fine right?
22:03:11 <andythenorth> probably just had enough of us for a bit :P
22:06:22 <LordAro> andythenorth: last rode his bike 2 weeks ago :/
22:11:45 <TrueBrain> wait, with CMake merged .. I can enable LGTM can I not .. :D
22:20:53 *** y2kboy23 has joined #openttd
22:22:42 <EER> frosch123: looks interesting! I'll check it out in a game over the weekend :D
22:37:15 <supermop_Home> andythenorth should i build an apartment-sized model railroad?
22:39:22 <andythenorth> are you married?
22:41:52 <supermop_Home> i assume by that he meant 'you should not'
22:45:10 <FLHerne> No, go ahead and do it, the problem will solve itself ;-)
22:46:23 <supermop_Home> i rather meant, a small layout, appropriate for an apartment, rather than a layout the size of the apartment
22:46:49 <supermop_Home> but why not go big
22:48:03 <frosch123> maybe make it a present for mother's day?
22:48:12 <TrueBrain> that was last month :o
22:49:11 <supermop_Home> also as we don't have children that might be a bit of an awkward gift!
22:49:26 <supermop_Home> "the model railroad is our child now"
22:49:36 <frosch123> would it be less awkward with children?
22:51:28 <supermop_Home> perhaps it needs to be T scale so as to be small enough to keep hidden
22:52:37 <supermop_Home> hmm Lambrusco or Sparkling Pinot Noir....?
22:53:31 <FLHerne> > i rather meant, a small layout, appropriate for an apartment, rather than a layout the size of the apartment
22:53:39 <FLHerne> I don't see the distinction
22:54:22 <FLHerne> It might still be too small, but you could always drill through the wall
22:54:41 <TrueBrain> or make it go outside through the windows and doors
22:54:43 <supermop_Home> sigh... the next door apartment had been vacant for 2 months
22:55:04 <supermop_Home> would have been perfect opprotunity
22:59:22 <TrueBrain> of which 49 are of the same type :D
23:01:42 <TrueBrain> some are funny .. uint with ">= 0" comparison :D
23:03:47 <FLHerne> Oh, those elitegameservers spam entries have gone
23:04:03 <FLHerne> Did someone ask them to stop, or make them stop, or they just gave up?
23:04:36 <frosch123> maybe they temporarily crashed? :p
23:05:01 <TrueBrain> in general OpenTTD is pretty healthy, according to LGTM :P
23:05:18 <FLHerne> What does "A protocol error was detected and the connection was closed" mean?
23:05:18 <supermop_Home> maybe i should get a server
23:05:25 <FLHerne> I just got it connecting to Reddit S2
23:05:49 <TrueBrain> might not be a real surprise, giving a few people have fixed many of the issues found by coverity a few years ago :D
23:06:05 <frosch123> FLHerne: apparently that is fairly common on reddit
23:06:16 <frosch123> they also get people joining the wrong company and stuff
23:07:15 <FLHerne> Is there some logfile I should post?
23:07:45 <TrueBrain> "The result of this call to GetFirstOrder is not checked for null, but 85% of calls to GetFirstOrder check for null." <- that is cool :)
23:08:23 <FLHerne> This time it created a company before I got disconnected
23:09:44 <FLHerne> Third time, I haven't been disconnected yet, but the game is virtually unresponsive
23:09:50 <FLHerne> Redraw time is in the seconds
23:11:11 <FLHerne> It got better enough that I could type `fps`
23:11:21 <FLHerne> Drawing rate is 1.76fps, apparently
23:11:29 <FLHerne> This laptop is slow, but not *that* slow
23:11:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JfHi0
23:12:08 <FLHerne> Looking at a completely empty patch of grass
23:28:09 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] FLHerne opened issue #8219: Inexplicably low redraw rate on multiplayer server https://git.io/JfHiF
23:30:51 <FLHerne> Oh, they haven't bothered to update to 1.10.2
23:31:10 <FLHerne> So it's sorted near the bottom unless you're still using 1.10.1
23:33:53 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] erenes commented on issue #8219: Inexplicably low redraw rate on multiplayer server https://git.io/JfHiF
23:48:18 *** josef[m] has joined #openttd
23:49:23 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8204: cmake: make install DESTDIR="something" ignores GLOBAL_DIR option https://git.io/JfM9j
continue to next day ⏵
