IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-05-13
⏴ go to previous day
00:00:18 <Speeder> so my 4096x4096 file for example I should load it on a 1024x1024 map?
00:02:18 <Yexo> No, corners of neighbouring tiles are the same, so while a single tile has 4 corners, in total there are as many corners as tiles on the map (modulo some extra at one border)
00:03:43 <Yexo> To put it differently: internally OpenTTD stores the height of the northern corner as "tile height". The height of the other corners can be gotten from neighbor tiles
00:06:55 <Speeder> also anyone made a patch or something that lets you define on the heightmap file or another kind of file, where rivers are?
00:24:23 <Speeder> I found that but no idea how to get the patch :(
00:31:39 <mcbanhas> guys where can I find the bitmap for the tiny font? It doesn't seem to be in OpenGFX/sprites/png/gui/
00:45:11 <mcbanhas> Yexo, that's the newspaper font
00:46:11 <Yexo> mcbanhas: there are actually 3 fonts in that file: regular, small and newspaper
00:50:06 <mcbanhas> I found a compatible charset we can use to expand font to japanese
00:50:43 <mcbanhas> and corresponding charsets for the larger fonts too
01:12:22 <glx> mcbanhas: easier to set a font in cfg :)
01:12:45 <mcbanhas> Yeah but it's not as nice
01:13:25 <mcbanhas> I mean this pixel font is also available in ttf, so it could be used both ways
01:13:35 <glx> and real font is resizable
01:15:01 <mcbanhas> btw, why isnt anti aliasing enabled for fonts by default?
01:31:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that's the biggest worry we should have concerning fonts
01:31:42 <mcbanhas> what is the biggest wory concerning fonts then?
01:32:05 <Eddi|zuHause> probably would be a better idea to ditch the sprite font entirely, and include a full TTF font suitible for all supportedlanguages
01:32:49 <mcbanhas> There is no such thing right now
01:33:29 <mcbanhas> Fonts that support extended latin + greek + cyrillic + hebrew + asian languages are rare
01:33:36 <mcbanhas> and usually not suited for video games
01:35:04 <mcbanhas> Much less one that resembles the classic ttd font
01:36:28 <mcbanhas> Like, we can do that already for the newspaper font, because it's based on Liberation Serif
01:36:58 <mcbanhas> Which does have unicode support for the most part
01:37:19 <Eddi|zuHause> the bigges concern with fonts, however, would be an ingame gui to set them up
01:37:40 <mcbanhas> I don't think we need a gui for that
01:37:51 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, we certainly do
01:38:53 <mcbanhas> I think first and foremost we need good fonts with enough character coverage that means it doesn't change to a system font every other language
01:39:38 <mcbanhas> I do understand what you're saying though, given how the UI scales on hi res
01:40:55 <mcbanhas> But before we even consider that, we need fonts that do the job
01:42:29 <Eddi|zuHause> as you said, it's unrealistic that we find a font that fits all those criteria, which makes it even more important to make the setting more accessible to the players
01:43:33 <mcbanhas> Well that's why first and foremost I wanted to expand the pixel font into something workable
01:44:17 <mcbanhas> Because pixel fonts can still be turned into .ttfs
01:44:35 <Eddi|zuHause> it's pretty much impossible to extend the pixel font for things like arabic, which rely on all sorts of character connections and transformations
01:46:02 <mcbanhas> and yes, it includes ligatures
01:46:52 <Eddi|zuHause> but we can't have ligatures, because we can have only one sprite per character
01:47:33 <mcbanhas> what most arabic fonts do is that they have characters for every possible ligature
01:48:01 <Eddi|zuHause> but then you have to implement a system that translates character combinations to ligature-characters
01:48:47 <mcbanhas> That is correct, yes
01:48:53 <Eddi|zuHause> and nobody is going to do that
01:49:17 <glx> on windows and macos we rely on the OS to do that for us
01:50:01 <Eddi|zuHause> on linux we use a library
01:50:01 <glx> there's ICU, with all its issues
02:00:27 <mcbanhas> hmm yeah so still an ongoing issue
02:14:39 *** TooTallTyler has joined #openttd
03:07:00 *** TooTallTyler has joined #openttd
03:46:39 *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd
04:02:18 *** Yexo is now known as Guest24907
04:02:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Yexo
04:36:34 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
06:44:52 <Speeder> how I make scenario editor generate cities like the default generator?
06:45:07 <Speeder> it is annoying that I can't use the scenario editor to just have a "default" map that I can tweak
08:03:17 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
08:16:47 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
08:48:00 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
09:33:07 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8145: Fix: sdl2-config would always be detected as present https://git.io/Jf4Ls
09:33:38 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8145: Fix: sdl2-config would always be detected as present https://git.io/Jf8Vp
09:42:36 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf4Li
09:43:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8140: Fix #8137: New clients can't join (desync) after funding an industry https://git.io/JfloZ
09:43:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed pull request #8141: Fix #8137: Rectangular industry area used for stations_near calculation https://git.io/Jfliv
09:43:09 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #8137: New clients can't join (desync) after funding an industry https://git.io/Jfl8b
09:43:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8141: Fix #8137: Rectangular industry area used for stations_near calculation https://git.io/Jf4LX
09:44:29 <LordAro> it'd be good if we could fix #8129 before releasing 1.10.2
09:47:17 <blathijs> Yipes, cmake? I'm always fighting with that trying to get a debug build working or pass some extra flag to the build, but I guess if you actually know how it works it's nice :-p
09:51:28 <andythenorth_> lots of fixes since last release :)
09:52:01 <andythenorth_> releases are cheap, right?
10:59:47 *** GroovyNoodle has joined #openttd
11:21:47 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf4Om
11:22:19 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf4OO
11:32:47 <Borg> howdy, question about procedure callback (variable 7E), can they be chained as well? or they need to be single chain returning result? from sources.. I dont see they are processed differently.. Resolve() is called recursivly...
11:33:42 * andythenorth_ hasn't tried, but I would have assumed chained works
11:33:53 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf4OM
11:33:55 <andythenorth_> based on the action 2
11:34:51 <Borg> yeah.. okey, lets assume this... too..
11:55:42 <Borg> If the chain ends in a regular action2, the returned result is 0xFFFF <- this comment worries me tho..
11:58:24 <Borg> my CPP skills become very rusty...
12:08:29 <LordAro> it's ok, OTTD is mostly C anyway :p
12:08:51 <LordAro> (pedantry: CPP is the preprocessor, not C++)
12:20:19 <FLHerne> Speeder: Note: You can rename any random savegame to '.scn', and load it in the scenario editor
12:20:51 <FLHerne> (the fact that scenarios are literally savegames is the root cause of most of their limitations, but it also means you can do that)
12:23:49 <LordAro> isn't there a 'generate many towns' button somewhere in the scenario editor?
12:29:53 <FLHerne> Hm, yes, clicking "Many random towns" a few times looks much the same as normal generation
12:33:51 *** arikover has joined #openttd
12:34:21 <Borg> LordAro: mostly C? ja hoor....
12:34:23 <Borg> % git grep -F virtual | wc -l
12:35:10 <Borg> LordAro: I really barelly understand most of it code.... wrappers.. virtuals... variadic arguments...
12:36:43 <Borg> LordAro: can you find me a code where VarAction2 decides to return result or chain to another VarAction2 ? I was looking at newgrf_spritegroup.cpp and.. all I see is this:
12:37:02 <Borg> return group->Resolve(object);
12:42:21 <Yexo> See DeterministicSpriteGroup::Resolve
12:43:09 <Yexo> I don't see anything obvious that would prevent recursive procedure calls
12:47:23 <Borg> recursive.. or chained... I care about chained more now..
12:48:00 <Borg> I mean.. VA2 -> VA2 -> call VA2 -> VA2 -> result -> VA2
12:48:27 <Borg> yeah.. I hope so.. recoding my GRF and going to put it to test in few mins...
13:02:40 <Borg> thats good... will simplify things a bit
13:04:35 <Borg> btw.. in debuglevel grf=2 the filename.grf:<N> is sprite number?
13:11:54 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
13:16:03 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
13:23:34 *** TooTallTyler has joined #openttd
13:27:35 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
13:43:26 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
13:43:39 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
13:44:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Astroneer now looks like it's drawing some inspiration from factorio, with the robotic arm for automation
13:57:36 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
13:57:49 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
14:02:57 <_dp_> oh, great, even weirder desync now
14:03:14 <_dp_> same person on 2 instances one desync, one don't xD
14:03:26 <LordAro> _dp_: stop breaking it!
14:13:01 <Samu> was build with refit thing proven to desync?
14:15:44 <_dp_> hmm, desynced all clients that connected after a certain point in time... that was ages ago
14:15:50 <_dp_> mb same desync after all
14:17:06 <_dp_> though that's unlikely as desyncs stopped...
15:09:01 <_dp_> ... I just learned steel mills and farms accept passengers
15:09:28 <_dp_> is that even a bug or a feature?
15:09:56 <supermop_Home> it was kind of an easter egg in the original game
15:23:49 <Samu> that's because the tiles have passenger acceptance
15:24:04 <_dp_> yeah, I guessed that much
15:24:35 <Samu> I am waiting for the elusive 1.10.2 to post my canal pathfinder on the forum
15:24:47 <Samu> it has a much needed fix
15:27:39 <_dp_> well, this new desync is very elusive so no point waiting for me this time I guess xD
15:33:29 <Samu> what do you suspect it is
15:34:48 <Samu> how could openttd get to the point of so many desyncs
15:36:41 <_dp_> new features bring new bugs
15:36:50 <_dp_> and I've no idea what it can be sadly
15:38:11 <Samu> sometimes I feel like I want to help, but I don't know where to begin
15:38:44 <_dp_> well, that's the problem with desyncs, if you know where to begin you're already 90% done
15:43:40 <supermop_Home> huh i thought there was a way to check base set, but now i can't find it in nml docs
15:50:38 <Samu> those station coverage related changes touch too much things at once
16:03:14 <FLHerne> supermop_Home: I think perhaps you can just check for the grfid?
16:04:14 <FLHerne> supermop_Home: It's "\FFOT\01" for OpenGFX, and "\FFOTz" for zBase
16:04:54 <FLHerne> Hm, that's for the 'extra' grfs
16:22:41 <Samu> is station kdtree passed in savegame?
16:24:48 <supermop_Home> FLHerne that might work.... i think they are trying to turn off a certain house or reference a different base sprite depending on base set used
16:25:12 <supermop_Home> based on forum post
16:27:36 <glx> hmm doing different things depending on baseset is not a good idea (at least it's not network safe I think)
16:35:29 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #7603: Town::cargo_accepted, Town::cargo_produced saveload and consistency issues https://git.io/fjB3A
16:40:59 <supermop_Home> glx I had the same thought
16:42:45 <supermop_Home> I believe the 'solution' if needed would be to just not reference houses from other climates
16:43:11 <supermop_Home> or only use base sets where all climates look similar in style
16:48:39 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_Home: you cannot check for basesets (or static grfs in general)
16:49:28 <Eddi|zuHause> well, technically, you can check for static grfs, but it will always result in the static grf to be disabled and the answer will always be "no"
16:51:13 <Eddi|zuHause> static grfs are in a quantum state, and checking for them collapses their wave function
16:52:24 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
17:29:17 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
17:58:49 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
18:28:37 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
18:44:55 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf42D
18:55:10 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] frosch123 approved pull request #42: Fix: [Makefile] make sure installed filenames are as OpenTTD expects https://git.io/Jf4as
19:07:52 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] frosch123 approved pull request #141: Fix #140: non-advanced sprite layouts don't have flags https://git.io/Jf4VU
19:10:25 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 merged pull request #141: Fix #140: non-advanced sprite layouts don't have flags https://git.io/Jflj3
19:10:26 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 closed issue #140: 0.5.1 - animated forest tiles from OpenGFX+ Industries disappear https://git.io/JflSO
19:11:46 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] frosch123 commented on pull request #142: Fix #139: Make --cache-dir work and don't create a directory when --no-cache is given. https://git.io/Jf4Vn
19:31:42 <andythenorth_> needs extra zoom
19:33:31 <frosch123> i think there was some handcar grf
19:34:15 <frosch123> is "draisine" no english word?
19:43:21 *** Progman has joined #openttd
19:45:50 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
19:58:27 <andythenorth_> draisine is valid in English
20:02:03 <frosch123> only dutch/german/danish wiki knew the term
20:02:13 <frosch123> nor did my english dictionary
20:08:48 <supermop_Home> frosch123 its maybe not an English word but i think people are familiar enough with it that they use it as such
20:13:55 <frosch123> looks like an outpost2 colony
20:14:36 <frosch123> in every mission the hippies settled next to a vulcano, and the mission was to evacuate them following the outburst
20:14:45 <frosch123> every single mission...
20:15:09 <supermop_Home> technically it's a tuff cone..
20:15:24 <supermop_Home> so it would have exploded with no warning
20:17:01 <supermop_Home> but the funicular runs straight up the steepest face to an old artillery spotting bunker and my wife insists on hiking up it early in the morning every time we visit her family there
20:17:42 <supermop_Home> the hike up is strenuous, but walking back down on the railroad ties is what kills your knees for the next few days
20:34:03 <Wolf01> Ahaahah outpost 2, fantastic game... never managed to win a game
20:34:38 <Wolf01> Never finished the campaign, the virus got me first... or the lava on the other side
20:35:16 *** qwebirc57243 has joined #openttd
21:06:43 <glx> <frosch123> only dutch/german/danish wiki knew the term <-- it's in french too
21:20:31 <supermop_Home> surely its only 9 or 10 there?
21:21:26 <Wolf01> I have troubles to stay awake in these days
21:27:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i never played outpost 2, only outpost 1, which is a completely different game
21:29:44 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
21:30:10 <andythenorth_> I have troubles to go to sleep Wolf01
21:30:17 <andythenorth_> then troubles to stay awake next day :P
21:30:19 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
21:30:26 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
21:37:57 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i'm fairly sure i didn't pay money for it :p
21:41:35 <frosch123> i bought 1 and 2 as a bundle. from the text on the back, 1 was the cool one, while 2 was a bonus. but as it turned out 1 was complete trash, and 2 was okay
21:42:52 <frosch123> buying games was not that easy in my youth. i only knew a show in the next bigger town, and i had no external review sources
21:43:25 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd
21:44:00 <frosch123> as it turned out, the games you bought were either bad or mediocre at best. while good games you got for free, since you only shared good games :)
21:44:54 <Wolf01> " the games you bought were either bad or mediocre at best." not that it changed much with time :P
21:45:53 <Wolf01> Paying for bad/mediocre AAA titles is the worst it can happen now, that's why indies worked so well
21:46:12 <frosch123> that's the punishment for preordering
21:46:29 <frosch123> it's so easy to get reviews or watch other play the game. it's really your fault if you buy a bad game
21:46:51 <Wolf01> They are still bad even after a year with a goty and 75% discount :P
22:11:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i still put many hours into outpost 1, even though it was woefully unfinished
22:27:56 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 updated pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf82n
22:37:27 *** arikover has joined #openttd
22:38:52 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf4Xj
22:54:19 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf41M
22:55:36 <Speeder> I got a .nut file on the forum, how I make the game use it?
22:55:45 <Speeder> it is a script (not an AI)
22:56:14 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf419
22:56:25 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf41H
22:57:16 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf41d
22:57:36 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf41F
22:57:58 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf41b
23:00:33 <Speeder> so how I figure why it didn't work?
23:00:42 <Speeder> if the script has a compilation error due to being old would it show somewhere
23:01:18 <Yexo> If it works similar to AIs it'd pop up with the error
23:02:30 <FLHerne> frosch123: So you'd rather keep the cachefile-naming stuff in generic?
23:02:58 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf4Ms
23:03:10 <FLHerne> IMO, it can always be moved back if or when anyone finds a use for more caching
23:04:09 <Speeder> it does't show up, at all
23:04:18 <Speeder> no matter where I paste the .nut file
23:05:39 <Yexo> you should have at least 2 files: info.nut and main.nut
23:05:47 <frosch123> FLHerne: no idea. i didn't finish the review, too tired
23:07:20 *** mcbanhas has joined #openttd
23:07:52 <Speeder> ah, I don't have a info.nut :(
23:08:51 <Speeder> I want to finish a scenario I started making in 2014... back then OpenTTD didn't had enough height limit for it to work, resulting in a wonky map
23:09:00 <Speeder> now that it DOES support my heightmap I wanna finish and publish it :)
23:09:43 <mcbanhas> question, anyone can explain to me why one of the checks on PR #8144 was cancelled?
23:09:57 <TrueBrain> frosch123 : there is a pending attempt to contact this dude so he can fix his licenses. Still push forward with blacklisting?
23:10:08 <mcbanhas> the error log says one of checkers was disconnected or something. I don't quite understand what that means
23:10:14 <TrueBrain> (I have no opinion about it; just validating)
23:10:36 <frosch123> TrueBrain: it's no loss. half of the grf contain pink pixels due to wrong palette
23:10:45 <frosch123> must have been a teenager
23:11:00 <Yexo> Speeder: 4th post has a zip with both .nut files
23:12:14 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i have a blacklist-script now :)
23:13:38 <TrueBrain> And I am really happy how easy this now is .. instead of diving in a database hoping you don't screw up terribly without any history :D
23:27:33 <TrueBrain> I love the simplisity
23:30:46 <Speeder> so, now I could load the script but seemly it doesn't "launch"
23:30:55 <Speeder> it has some logs on the source about when it starts
23:31:00 <Speeder> but I never see that log in-game anywhere
23:31:05 <Speeder> and seemly it doesn't do anything
23:31:15 <frosch123> TrueBrain: the packagelist.py (a rip-off from the api storage stuff) creates a csv that is easier to grep than the yaml, since it includes author/title/id in one line
23:31:51 <Speeder> how I open the script debug window?
23:32:23 <frosch123> not sure whether you need to enable some script-dev setting
23:33:26 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] FLHerne requested changes for pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf4DF
23:34:09 <FLHerne> mcbanhas: I doubt it's worth worrying about the CI, it'll probably fix itself on the next push anyway :P
23:34:58 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] FLHerne commented on pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf4Db
23:37:16 <Speeder> ah thanks :D that helped a lot
23:38:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf4yf
23:41:28 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf4ym
23:45:21 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf4y8
23:47:00 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf4y0
23:47:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf4yE
23:49:14 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf4yg
23:51:54 <FLHerne> mcbanhas: I'll concede the slashes to you :P
23:52:35 <mcbanhas> FLHerne, I spent too much time fixing slashes on my real life job
23:53:46 <mcbanhas> You can leave a space inbetween if you are separating phrases or values i.e:
23:54:03 <mcbanhas> Downloading 1.5 mb / 2.0 mb
23:54:29 <mcbanhas> Whether or not he was / was not correct
23:54:57 <FLHerne> The space definitely isn't grammatical, but in the settings you're often scanning for a particular word, and they help pick it out
23:55:16 <FLHerne> OTOH, your adding capitalization to the second one might help
23:55:28 <FLHerne> And the settings window has a search box now :P
23:55:47 <glx> yeah it was a pain before :)
23:55:51 <FLHerne> (once it didn't, and the settings were even more jumbled and weirdly-named)
23:57:23 <mcbanhas> also, do you guys know why one of the checks failed in the commit? the note isn't clear about it.
continue to next day ⏵
