IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-05-12
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00:06:57 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #8139: Add: stations_near and industries_near cache check https://git.io/JflrE
00:25:58 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8139: Add: stations_near and industries_near cache check https://git.io/Jfl7w
00:41:16 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #8140: Fix #8137: New clients can't join (desync) after funding an industry https://git.io/JfloZ
00:41:35 <_dp_> didn't quite work out as planned but still ok I guess
00:44:58 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #8140: Fix #8137: New clients can't join (desync) after funding an industry https://git.io/JfloZ
00:51:09 <LordAro> yeah, commits aren't exactly separated properly
00:53:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8140: Fix #8137: New clients can't join (desync) after funding an industry https://git.io/Jfl5x
00:55:34 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8140: Fix #8137: New clients can't join (desync) after funding an industry https://git.io/JfldT
00:56:23 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8140: Fix #8137: New clients can't join (desync) after funding an industry https://git.io/JfldL
00:58:25 <_dp_> LordAro, templated lambda = inline
00:58:46 <LordAro> last i heard they were often inefficient
00:59:22 <_dp_> if called as function pointer mb but as templated that's the whole point
01:00:26 <_dp_> unlike vector that requre some lto magic
01:00:38 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #8140: Fix #8137: New clients can't join (desync) after funding an industry https://git.io/JfldG
01:00:41 <michi_cc> Any compiler/optimizer that is not totally dumb should realize these lambdas as a simple stack-stored struct with a single member var and an operator(). Which the optimizer can possibly inline away.
01:02:01 <LordAro> do have a go at splitting those commits up a bit better
01:02:08 <LordAro> they're a mess at the moment
01:02:44 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8140: Fix #8137: New clients can't join (desync) after funding an industry https://git.io/JfldR
01:03:00 <_dp_> LordAro, if you mean extra TileIndex it's only needed for desync fix
01:03:09 <_dp_> completely unnecessary without
01:04:44 <glx> I would move AddIndustryToDeliver() change to its own commit
01:05:06 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8140: Fix #8137: New clients can't join (desync) after funding an industry https://git.io/Jfldu
01:06:26 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8140: Fix #8137: New clients can't join (desync) after funding an industry https://git.io/JfldV
01:07:08 <glx> (I know it's not so easy to split a commit, but in this case it should be doable
01:10:46 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8140: Fix #8137: New clients can't join (desync) after funding an industry https://git.io/Jfldb
01:13:14 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8140: Fix #8137: New clients can't join (desync) after funding an industry https://git.io/JflFJ
01:14:20 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #8140: Fix #8137: New clients can't join (desync) after funding an industry https://git.io/JfloZ
01:19:54 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #8139: Add: stations_near and industries_near cache check https://git.io/JflrE
01:21:42 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #8140: Fix #8137: New clients can't join (desync) after funding an industry https://git.io/JfloZ
01:23:11 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Yexo
01:24:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8140: Fix #8137: New clients can't join (desync) after funding an industry https://git.io/JflFX
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03:02:21 <supermop_Home> well i forgot to eat dinner
03:20:17 <Eddi|zuHause> that might be a problem at 3AM :p
04:03:44 *** Yexo is now known as Guest24816
04:03:48 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Yexo
04:04:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 commented on issue #140: 0.5.1 - animated forest tiles from OpenGFX+ Industries disappear https://git.io/JflSO
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04:45:48 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 opened pull request #141: Fix #140: non-advanced sprite layouts don't have flags https://git.io/Jflj3
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07:00:02 <TooTallTyler> My town set decreases how much mail is produced by towns (houses produce nearly none, commercial is slightly increased) so I'd like to try increasing mail delivery payments to compensate. Does anyone know A: Mail's default price factor, and B: If I only define the price factor, will the cargo inherit its other properties from the base game cargo, or do I have to define the entire cargo?
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10:20:37 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8140: Fix #8137: New clients can't join (desync) after funding an industry https://git.io/Jf8OW
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10:23:38 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8140: Fix #8137: New clients can't join (desync) after funding an industry https://git.io/Jf8OE
10:24:15 <LordAro> i'm not going to merge them though :p
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10:55:52 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8140: Fix #8137: New clients can't join (desync) after funding an industry https://git.io/Jf836
11:07:46 <LordAro> mm, i do recall reading something similar before, now that i think about it
11:10:05 <_dp_> LordAro, well, the whole STL is not templated for no reason ;)
11:11:34 <_dp_> and rust even dropped polymorphism in favor of templates xD
11:12:22 <_dp_> they're done much better in rust though
11:13:28 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] hpiirai opened issue #8142: Loading savegame from 1.10.1 fails: ”Wrong owner for station tile” https://git.io/Jf8sz
11:15:29 <LordAro> Heiki: well that's problematic
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12:07:42 <Yoshi> Hello, long time not heared ;)
12:09:18 <Yoshi> After the Bananas Upgrade... What is the current way of reporting copyright infringing content? Mail to abuse@openttd.org?
12:09:49 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ilayaraja97 commented on issue #8131: Missing bounding boxes for bridge pillars of height 1 cause graphical glitches https://git.io/JfWqh
12:12:41 <LordAro> Yoshi: if that was the way before, it's the way now too
12:12:46 <LordAro> that bit hasn't changed
12:13:06 <Yoshi> I'm not sure if it was the way before :D
12:13:21 <Yoshi> There is no embedded "report" function on bananas
12:13:56 <Yoshi> on openttd.org, there is an abuse@openttd.org listed at the contact form
12:16:01 <TrueBrain> Yup, mail to abuse. And we should indeed add it on the site too, good suggestion :)
12:16:32 <Yoshi> Who receives this email? :D
12:16:37 <TrueBrain> I hope abuse still routes the mail correctly, but it should :D (sorry, we don't have that many reports)
12:17:06 <Yoshi> The I'll just send a quick mail and stay here :)
12:17:18 <TrueBrain> But the point of these aliases is that enough people get it so it is processed :)
12:20:11 <TrueBrain> Bah, cannot login to the server to check who is attached to the abuse alias :p feel free to CC me too; just to be sure :)
12:30:21 <Yoshi> And sent again to you :D
12:31:20 <TrueBrain> Cheers. Most likely greylisted, so it might take a bit to reach me, but I will pick it up tonight. And sorry you had to use it ....
12:33:56 <Yoshi> I wonder why I didn't use it earlier... The three entries are from 2015 :think:
12:34:21 <Yoshi> Seems like I am absent for way too long time
12:35:39 <Yoshi> Transport Fever took over 99% of my free time on computer :D
12:41:57 <TrueBrain> Received the email. Will process it later today!
12:42:40 <Yoshi> If there are any remarks or questions, just respond to the mail
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13:04:08 <mcbanhas> So for the altered texts, I wanted o submit all capitalization changes first. Should I create a new PR or modify PR #7870?
13:08:11 <planetmaker> ^^ I received the e-mail and checked the validity of Yoshi's claim
13:09:08 <planetmaker> Yoshi, same question here, as you're around: are you ok with disabling the newgrf for all versions and removing it from the accessible list - but keeping it for people with a savegame which requires it?
13:10:08 <planetmaker> That stops distribution - except in cases where an existing savegame would be broken. I'd like to kindly ask you to allow continued distribution in that case
13:10:32 <Yoshi> What happens, if a new server has it in the list?
13:10:45 <Yoshi> Will clients still be able to download it?
13:10:58 <planetmaker> If a server's savegame would use it, yes, then the clients would be allowed to download it, too.
13:11:28 <planetmaker> that's technically "a savegame needs it"
13:11:36 <Yoshi> As far as I understand, Brianum was or is a server, thus, that was the only purpose of these entries.
13:12:16 <LordAro> mcbanhas: probably ultimately cleaner if you make a new PR
13:12:31 <planetmaker> let me see... whether I can find the account
13:12:32 <LordAro> reuse is good, but we're not limited by numbers :)
13:15:05 <Yoshi> All three vehicles are included in the DACH 0.3.2, seems like whoever runs or runned that server jus extracted it and reduced the cost property
13:16:35 <planetmaker> I'm not sure what to reply myself tbh...
13:16:48 <planetmaker> I'd like to suggest that people a working github solution
13:18:02 <andythenorth> coop infra is on life support?
13:18:10 <andythenorth> maybe we just say the facts and move on
13:18:33 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, can I hand out the e-mail of the account who uploaded the NewGRFs in question?
13:18:43 <planetmaker> So that the two can sort it out themselves, ideally?
13:20:14 <planetmaker> andythenorth, yes... I feel struggling to keep it properly running and maintained. It's better to move on. It's ... no-one properly taking care of... I'm still missing time. Was much more fun when it was a group of people
13:20:38 <andythenorth> maybe we just put that
13:20:46 <planetmaker> I don't mind at all to have the server running. But I don't have time to maintain all services
13:22:26 <planetmaker> Yoshi, may I hand out your e-mail to the account who uploaded the NewGRFs. With a time of like ... 3 days to respond to you so that you two can sort it out that either he updates or disables NewGRFs?
13:23:04 <planetmaker> And I'm sure you two can talk it out in German even ;)
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13:25:19 <Yoshi> You may send him legal@mguertler.de as contact mail
13:27:19 <planetmaker> ok. Thank you. 3 days is ok, and when he doesn't reply, please tell us again. We don't want your stand in that way... jsut have a good community where people can tal to eachother
13:28:55 <Samu> or will it also crash in release build?
13:29:17 <Yoshi> Planetmaker: Yes, indeed talking to sort things out is better :) Part of my everyday "job" over at the Transport Fever community too...
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13:38:12 <planetmaker> it was brought to our attention that three of your NewGRFs are violating
13:38:15 <planetmaker> The Graphics are originally part of the DACH set and licensed under GPL
13:38:17 <planetmaker> v2 - thus you are required to honour that license. CC-BY-SA is not a
13:38:19 <planetmaker> compatible license.
13:38:23 <planetmaker> Please contact the author of the DACH set
13:38:25 <planetmaker> legal@mguertler.de
13:38:27 <planetmaker> immediately so that you can find a resolution to the issue.
13:38:29 <planetmaker> If we don't hear back within 3 days (that is till 15th May 2020) from
13:38:31 <planetmaker> the DACH set author, we will have to disable your NewGRFs unconditionally.
13:38:35 <planetmaker> ^^^ that's what I sent him now
13:39:39 <LordAro> planetmaker: we tell people off for far fewer lines, y'know
13:43:16 <Yoshi> Regarding the Talk is better than hard Judgement... Austrian Set by PNDA was such a case too. He took graphics from DACH Set without asking, but finally he sorted things out and even got more from me ^^
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13:46:06 <planetmaker> it most often is ignorance rather than malevolence
13:46:50 <Yoshi> but sadly, sometimes ignorance turnes over to malevolence, when the original author claims
13:47:52 <planetmaker> well. First thing I checked was: which NewGRF is older :) Then I checked graphics ingame for similarity... well. This case identical :)
13:48:44 <planetmaker> this one very much so. I wish it always was that easy :)
13:49:31 <planetmaker> but ofc... it also was easy as I knew somewhat the DACH set
13:50:00 <Yoshi> In german OpenTTD community, it nowadays seems to be as known as the DBSet ^^
13:50:37 <planetmaker> I'm not surprised. It's the difference between vapourware and something real :)
13:55:05 <Yoshi> I still need a 48hour day... then I could continue with all the old projects :D
13:55:21 <planetmaker> tell me about it :)
13:58:18 <Yoshi> Number One Item on my wishlist is the time reverser of Hermione
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14:15:21 <Samu> I'm intrigued why does the save in #8142 load in 1.10.1
14:16:00 <Samu> should go through the same tests
14:17:45 <LordAro> Samu: the fix in #8134 will be (or was going to be) in 1.10.2, it's not been released yet
14:17:52 <LordAro> so it's not going through the same tests
14:17:59 <LordAro> clearly the fix is wrong, or missing some edgecase
14:19:48 <LordAro> Samu: though please do investigate exactly what's happened
14:20:20 <Samu> buoy has a tile owner OWNER_WATER
14:20:31 <Samu> and the station->owner has OWNER_NONE
14:20:47 <LordAro> put it in the issue, please :)
14:20:54 <Samu> but all buoys are like that
14:21:13 <LordAro> indeed, a missed edgecase in the fix
14:22:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on issue #8142: Loading savegame from 1.10.1 fails: ”Wrong owner for station tile” https://git.io/Jf8sz
14:25:06 <Samu> reminds me of my Build on Competitor canal
14:25:25 <Samu> i had made changes to buoy owner
14:27:40 <Samu> exactly that where it crashes
14:29:17 <Samu> erm... not crash, i mean errors
14:29:45 <Samu> sorry, I'm typically slow
14:29:50 <LordAro> that message was only added recently :p
14:29:57 <LordAro> no need to restate it
14:40:08 <LordAro> andythenorth: copying the majority of what OGFX does should be enough for most people
14:40:23 <LordAro> possibly also with what nml does for adding files to the GH release
14:40:27 <andythenorth> if there are no python deps
14:40:34 <andythenorth> and it's just nmlc + a makefile
14:40:55 <andythenorth> I did get Azure building FIRS and publishing it to S3
14:40:55 <LordAro> someone should make a friendly OTTD GH action :)
14:41:03 <andythenorth> but Azure is a lot of clicking buttons :(
15:01:20 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne opened pull request #142: Fix #139: Make --cache-dir work and don't create a directory when --no-cache is given. https://git.io/Jf8BZ
15:03:44 <LordAro> FLHerne: also, is not None
15:04:21 <FLHerne> The 'and not sources' was a last-minute thought, and I clearly wasn't paying attention ;P
15:05:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne updated pull request #142: Fix #139: Make --cache-dir work and don't create a directory when --no-cache is given. https://git.io/Jf8BZ
15:06:42 <Samu> _dp_ don't forget headquarter
15:07:45 <_dp_> Samu, what about headquarters?
15:07:59 <Samu> they produce pass and mail
15:09:27 <Samu> im not sure, does it handle HQs?
15:09:49 <_dp_> Samu, yeah, why shouldn't it?
15:13:07 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #8143: Fix #8142, 5aa6351: Buoy owner and tile owner can be different https://git.io/Jf8BX
15:16:05 <Samu> glx have a look at my big PR #7937, it handles buoy owners
15:16:39 <LordAro> glx: waypoints aren't affected, are they?
15:16:53 <glx> waypoints have a real owner
15:17:27 <glx> buoys have none and the tile can be water owned or any player
15:18:01 <LordAro> FLHerne: ah, no f-strings in python3.5
15:18:41 <LordAro> though all the other versions have issues as well
15:18:54 <LordAro> FLHerne: 3.5 still supported for a few more months :p
15:19:02 <FLHerne> I know, fixing it all
15:20:15 <Xaroth> 3.5 is end of support; end of life in about 4 months iirc
15:21:01 <Xaroth> 3.6 is end of support and EOL end of next year, but it's also still used by some LTS distros
15:21:25 <Xaroth> so going beyond 3.6 is a bit meh atm
15:21:47 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8143: Fix #8142, 5aa6351: Buoy owner and tile owner can be different https://git.io/Jf8RL
15:22:09 <LordAro> _dp_: good thing you made us wait for 1.10.2, otherwise we would've missed ^
15:22:32 <glx> and nice someone tried a nightly
15:23:01 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #8143: Fix #8142, 5aa6351: Buoy owner and tile owner can be different https://git.io/Jf8BX
15:23:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 closed issue #8142: Loading savegame from 1.10.1 fails: ”Wrong owner for station tile” https://git.io/Jf8sz
15:26:39 <_dp_> yeah, worked out nicely xD
15:26:42 <Samu> i would rather change buoys
15:27:10 <glx> not for an easy backportable fix
15:27:51 <Samu> now I got to unfix your fix on my PR :)
15:28:12 <FLHerne> Xaroth: Only need 3.6 for the f-strings
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15:31:00 <Samu> _dp_, just tested headquarters, it still works, it uses the ForAllStationsAroundTiles
15:32:02 <mcbanhas> Anyone can tell me why I'm getting this error msg:
15:32:10 <mcbanhas> jvitorino@jvitorino-X550DP:~/openttd$ git checkout upstream -b <textupdate>
15:32:10 <mcbanhas> bash: syntax error near unexpected token `newline'
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15:33:16 <FLHerne> mcbanhas: < and > are special characters to bash
15:33:19 <Yexo> If that's literally what you tried: The '<' and '>' symbols trigger text redirects, that's not what you want
15:34:13 <FLHerne> mcbanhas: `command > filename` means "write the output to that file"
15:34:33 <FLHerne> So it sees the >, and it's expecting a filename to follow
15:40:55 <Eddi|zuHause> if you really want the <> there, put it in single quotes: '<blah>'
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15:41:30 <Eddi|zuHause> but you shouldn't want the <> there, really
15:42:06 <Samu> IsSaveGameVersionUntil is conflicting with many of my PRs :( I wonder now if i place my code past the until or before the until
15:43:20 <glx> I'd say after as I guess you have a savegame upgrade
15:44:13 <glx> it's logical to apply new fixes after others
15:45:18 <glx> unless the fixes are needed before other checks
15:48:57 <Samu> there should be a pull --force in github desktop. There is but once i make a change in visual studio, it's gone
15:52:55 <Samu> there is no IsSaveGameVersionAfter function :(
15:53:23 <nielsm> that's just the negation of IsSavegameVersionBefore
15:53:35 <Samu> ah, that may work, gonna try
15:54:02 <glx> depending on wanted starting point
15:55:34 <dwfreed> negation of < is >=, and negation of <= is >
15:56:10 <Samu> if ((!IsBuoyTile(t) || IsSavegameVersionBefore(SLV_BUILD_ON_COMPETITOR_CANAL)) && bst->owner != GetTileOwner(t)) SlErrorCorrupt("Wrong owner for station tile");
15:59:18 <Samu> 0x10 means... ONWER_NONE if I recall
15:59:22 <LordAro> Samu: that looks very much like the wrong solution
16:00:52 <Samu> if ((!IsBuoyTile(t) || !IsSavegameVersionBefore(SLV_BUILD_ON_COMPETITOR_CANAL)) works
16:01:20 <dwfreed> which is different than what you had before
16:09:20 <LordAro> Samu: please stop needlessly linking everything
16:09:23 <LordAro> it's literally right there
16:22:52 <glx> I don't think it's an issue to always skip the check when it's a buoy
16:23:48 <glx> they are not multitile anyway
16:24:20 <glx> the main reason for this check was multi tile and multi modal stations
16:24:35 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne updated pull request #142: Fix #139: Make --cache-dir work and don't create a directory when --no-cache is given. https://git.io/Jf8BZ
16:36:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu> if ((!IsBuoyTile(t) || !IsSavegameVersionBefore(SLV_BUILD_ON_COMPETITOR_CANAL)) <-- i'd probably de-morgan this to !(buoy && savegame)
16:38:49 <Eddi|zuHause> my intuition tells me to use as few ! as possible in complicated logic
16:40:31 <dwfreed> especially since it's easy to miss
16:45:11 <Eddi|zuHause> also, if you're in saveload code you should probably emphasise the savegame version, so you might want to put that check first
16:55:24 <Samu> I'm not sure what to do with 8047
17:04:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 opened pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf82n
17:05:14 <mcbanhas> hold on to your butts
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17:07:41 <mcbanhas> Ok, I think that went well by the looks of it. LMK if you guys catch anything out of the line
17:07:53 <mcbanhas> It's the first time I'm doing a PR on my own
17:09:16 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7890: Fix #6452: Reset only editable and visible settings from GUI https://git.io/Jexqi
17:10:35 <mcbanhas> Hmm some check appear to be failing. Any idea what's causing this?
17:11:16 <TrueBrain> <planetmaker> TrueBrain, can I hand out the e-mail of the account who uploaded the NewGRFs in question? <- no, that is never okay. You can only reach out to the email address asking if he is okay with it ;)
17:12:41 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7822: Fix #7670: Cache the origin tile to prevent recurring calls to the road pathfinder when a vehicle is blocked by another https://git.io/JegbJ
17:15:56 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf82d
17:16:06 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7661: Codechange: Rework 'start_date' parameter for AIs as a game setting https://git.io/fjMsZ
17:18:28 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7193: Fix #6468: Load correct version of AI as specified during the time of its save. https://git.io/fhHI1
17:18:40 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf8aJ
17:18:52 <TrueBrain> Welcome DorpsGek_III , the spammer! Pfft ..
17:20:47 <Samu> it was IsSaveGameVersionUntil's fault
17:24:14 <LordAro> mcbanhas: the checks should tell you what's wrong ;)
17:24:31 <mcbanhas> Yeah i can understand one of them, but not the others
17:26:13 <LordAro> mcbanhas: because you've not kept your local copy up to date, so have ended up reverting some changes
17:26:20 <LordAro> which have caused the knock on error in all the other languages
17:26:25 <LordAro> james103 has pointed it out
17:26:39 <mcbanhas> That's one I figured out, but what about the other failed checks?
17:27:06 <glx> all checks failed on missing INR string
17:43:48 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] matthijskooijman opened pull request #8145: Fix: sdl2-config would always be detected as present https://git.io/Jf8Vp
17:45:55 <blathijs> I'm looking at packaging OpenTTD 1.10 (a bit late, w00ps) and noticed that there is an SDL2 video driver. How stable and complete is that? Ready to be used by default on Debian, or better to stick for SDL1.2 for a bit more?
17:46:11 <LordAro> blathijs: perfectly stable and complete as far as we're aware
17:47:07 <blathijs> Ok, sounds good. Let's see if I can get it to compile, then :-P
17:47:50 <nielsm> just be aware that you can only use either SDL1 or SDL2 :)
17:48:27 <glx> and if both are found SDL1 is disabled IIRC
17:49:41 <nielsm> I suppose we should formally deprecate the SDL1 driver some time soon and remove it when the SDL2 driver is found to be stable
17:51:32 <nielsm> maybe with cmake change so you only get SDL1 if you actively request it
17:51:39 <LordAro> though there was someone that wanted to keep it a few weeks back
17:51:43 <LordAro> was it the amiga port?
17:51:53 <nielsm> maybe something like that
17:52:09 <nielsm> can't they use allegro instead?
17:52:38 <nielsm> though allegro is barely maintained at all, nobody really uses it?
17:55:43 <mcbanhas> question, after I do commit --amend to replace a file, do I have to do commit --all afterwards?
17:55:51 <mcbanhas> Or will that just create a new commit?
17:56:05 <nielsm> commit creates a new commit unless you use --amend
17:56:31 <mcbanhas> But after I've done --amend it now tells me there are still unstaged changes
18:02:19 <_dp_> lol, was curious how to check which sdl a I using, now I know that if switching to fullscreen kills X server that's sdl1 xD
18:06:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] matthijskooijman opened pull request #42: Fix: [Makefile] make sure installed filenames are as OpenTTD expects https://git.io/Jf8rW
18:08:19 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 updated pull request #141: Fix #140: non-advanced sprite layouts don't have flags https://git.io/Jflj3
18:08:23 <nielsm> you need to git push --force
18:08:52 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 updated pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf82n
18:10:58 <blathijs> mcbanhas: I recommend --force-with-lease, which refuses to force if someone else pushed to the same branch since you last did, which is a bit safer.
18:11:28 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 updated pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf82n
18:12:59 <blathijs> Ok, SDL2 seems to work fine, nice :-)
18:20:12 <Eddi|zuHause> <mcbanhas> But after I've done --amend it now tells me there are still unstaged changes <-- you should "git add" before "git commit"
18:20:59 <Eddi|zuHause> although i tend to go "git commit -a" unless i have some fancy mixed stuff
18:25:29 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 updated pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf82n
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18:30:17 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #8144: Change: Improved English texts - capitalization. https://git.io/Jf8og
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18:42:21 <andythenorth> but FIRS implementation is 52 cargos already :P
18:55:37 <mcbanhas> Do you guys actually play with THAT level of complexity?
18:56:30 <Eddi|zuHause> no. andy is just working on a pipe dream
18:57:01 <andythenorth> well played Eddi|zuHause
18:57:08 <andythenorth> you should do standup :)
18:57:45 <andythenorth> I am pushing for 64 cargos with the chemical economy
18:57:53 <andythenorth> it's an experiment in flow
18:59:19 <mcbanhas> curious to how much research you put into the inner workings of industry in general
19:00:52 <andythenorth> I find it really interesting
19:01:04 <andythenorth> it's like a puzzle
19:01:24 <andythenorth> especially chemistry where there are different processes around the world
19:01:32 <andythenorth> and there are multiple names for the same chemical
19:02:09 <andythenorth> and output can also be feedstocks to their own production process
19:02:14 <mcbanhas> I wonder how does one get into a specific business like
19:02:32 <mcbanhas> "ok i'm gonna invest on a polymer factory!"
19:02:46 <andythenorth> interesting isn't it
19:02:55 <andythenorth> also the amount of plastic we consume
19:02:57 <andythenorth> and where it comes from
19:03:01 <andythenorth> and what the alternatives are
19:03:15 <mcbanhas> The answer is usually oil
19:05:06 <mcbanhas> Almost everything we use these days has some form of oil derivate. Alternatives would simply disrupt the highly convenient chain of derivates you illustrated so well.
19:06:02 <mcbanhas> A few days ago I learned that even the majority of modern hydrogen production is achieved through natural gas.
19:14:39 <andythenorth> and yet on a basic level, it's all just elements and compounds
19:14:46 <andythenorth> other sources are possible
19:14:51 <andythenorth> or alternative processes
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19:18:58 <mcbanhas> andythenorth, you have any idea how many oil people would be pissed off over that possibility?
19:19:36 <andythenorth> I think the geo-political aspects of the fossil fuel lobby are a Known Thing
19:20:02 <andythenorth> whilst they have managed to capture control of multiple democracies and pseudo-democracies
19:20:14 <andythenorth> they are becoming less investable by capital markets
19:23:11 <mcbanhas> Because of the pandemic you think? Personally I think oil will go back to booming after this is over.
19:28:57 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: crude oil from various places have subtle differences in composition, which needs careful tweaking of the refinement process, so oil refineries are very reluctant to switching
19:29:09 <andythenorth> yes, it's a long term slow moving process
19:29:38 <andythenorth> but coal power generation is already un-investable in most developed economies even without carbon tax
19:29:45 <andythenorth> and gas generation is following
19:29:54 <andythenorth> the next thing will be petrochemical feedstocks
19:30:28 <andythenorth> assuming 30 year timelines
19:30:37 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: they've been debating over here for the past 10 years over opening a new coal power plant that is already built (and which is supposed to supercede 3 existing ones)
19:31:22 <andythenorth> plastic consumer goods have big 2 issues: source of hydrocarbons, and destination of waste plastic
19:31:24 <Eddi|zuHause> ... while at the same time debating over how quickly we can get out of coal power completely
19:31:42 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause are you in the brown coal region?
19:32:01 <andythenorth> remarkable place
19:32:21 <andythenorth> we built round one of civilisation by digging up all that coal and burning it
19:32:30 <andythenorth> we built round two with all the oil
19:33:06 <andythenorth> where I grew up, you could pretty much see (or at least hear) a coal train any hour of the day
19:33:15 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, we're now on the case of: can we build round 3 with neither of those, or is it gonna collapse in on itself?
19:33:32 <andythenorth> coal train line went past my house, my school, my next school, and the school after that
19:33:48 <andythenorth> could see 7 deep mines (coal) from one window of my house
19:33:54 <mcbanhas> I don't think coal is un-investable at all. China, for example, is still building new coal power stations due to the west's increased demand for electronics. Coal plants are cheap and quick to build.
19:34:18 <andythenorth> yes, this is the problem with supposed achievement of low-carbon economy in countries like UK
19:34:20 <Eddi|zuHause> mcbanhas: your information might be 5 years outdated
19:34:31 <andythenorth> we have simply outsourced steel and other high pollution industries to china
19:34:54 <andythenorth> India is mandating 100% EVs by 2030(?), but is digging up all of Queensland to burn as fuel for it
19:36:07 <Eddi|zuHause> china is one of the leading drivers of dropping the price of solar panels, large swaths of the german solar industry have been bankrupted by that
19:37:53 <andythenorth> I was looking for an appropriate (non campaigning) source on fossil fuel divestment
19:38:11 <andythenorth> the actuaries will say it's a bad risk
19:38:25 <andythenorth> if you've ever met an actuary, they are pretty low emotion
19:40:01 <andythenorth> if you're uninsurable with mainstream insurance markets
19:40:07 <andythenorth> you're going to fail due diligence
19:40:20 <andythenorth> which means mainstream institutional investors (pension funds) won't invest
19:41:04 <andythenorth> this is a very big change from current *today* situation where fossil fuel investments are the major contributor of dividends to pension funds
19:41:10 <milek7> doesn't germany recently increased fossil enery share due to phasing out nuclear?
19:41:27 <mcbanhas> milek7, I heard the same.
19:42:27 <Eddi|zuHause> somewhat-ish, but the complete nuclear shutdown hasn't happened yet. only the really old ones which should have been decommissioned by that point anyways
19:43:07 <Eddi|zuHause> nuclear is a very controversial subject on that matter anyway
19:43:19 <mcbanhas> andythenorth, you mean stuff like 401ks?
19:43:46 <andythenorth> 401ks are pensions from large providers like Fidelity?
19:43:53 <andythenorth> index funds, mutual funds etc?
19:43:58 <andythenorth> not self-invested?
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19:45:47 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
19:46:18 <Eddi|zuHause> as you can see on those charts, the expansion of renewables easily trumps the loss of nuclear power. the main argument people were having was: "we could get out of coal earlier if we kept nuclear around longer"
19:46:46 <andythenorth> if we did the CCS we could keep burning the coal
19:46:49 <andythenorth> but CCS is unproven eh
19:47:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i think we're a few decades out from deploying CCS on an industrial scale
19:47:47 <andythenorth> it's unclear what it's for
19:47:51 <andythenorth> preserving oil industry wealth?
19:47:57 <andythenorth> declining coal mining jobs?
19:48:04 <Eddi|zuHause> and that doesn't solve the "we're still running out of oil" problem
19:48:23 <andythenorth> don't we have lots of it, just not economically accessible?
19:48:40 <andythenorth> if only we could somehow unfreeze all the methane hydrate from the bottom of the ocean :P
19:48:46 <andythenorth> so much hydrocarbon resource
19:49:00 <andythenorth> maybe by warming the oceans 4 degrees
19:49:50 <Eddi|zuHause> so as far as i can tell, germany's plan for now is: "hope there isn't a peak-renewables", "use natural gas as backup", "get out of the other stuff in a timely manner, without being too hasty"
19:50:27 <Eddi|zuHause> where some powers want the latter to be quicker
19:50:38 <andythenorth> we have this small issue with things like Haber Bosch fertiliser
19:50:52 <andythenorth> which is 100% dependent on gas / naphtha currently
19:51:03 <andythenorth> and somewhat needed to...feed us
19:52:11 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a semi-strong argument at the second part, where it's "but you're making us too dependent on russia for gas deliveries"
19:52:43 <milek7> what does exactly installed solar capacity mean? it depends on season, doesn't it?
19:53:00 <Eddi|zuHause> which recently escalated as orange-hair-dude intervened on an already almost-finished gas pipeline
19:53:31 <Eddi|zuHause> milek7: installed capacity is just the covered area multiplied with an assumed efficiency value
19:54:32 <andythenorth> there will be a retrospective factual measure for any period
19:54:43 <Eddi|zuHause> there's actually 2 efficiency values: a) in case of direct solar input, how much power are you getting out, and b) how large of a fraction of time is actually full solar input
19:55:08 <Eddi|zuHause> the "installed capacity" is only concerned with a)
19:56:49 <Eddi|zuHause> so a) is mostly about what angle the sun is shining at it (averaged out over days/seasons), and b) is about how cloudy it is
19:56:55 <andythenorth> * change electricity supplier to 100% renewable, preferably gas supplier also
19:57:05 <andythenorth> * change pension fund if you have one, to divestment from fossil fuel
19:57:12 * andythenorth has done 1, not 2
19:57:24 <andythenorth> my pension provider was very proud that they have divested from tobacco recently
19:57:28 <andythenorth> and are therefore ethical
19:58:09 <Eddi|zuHause> they should have done that 30 years ago...
19:58:29 <andythenorth> I think they probably did
19:58:30 <Eddi|zuHause> ... and 10 years ago they should have switched to ethical mining
19:58:36 <andythenorth> but they are still talking about it now
19:58:39 <andythenorth> as ethical behaviour
19:58:50 <andythenorth> suggests a gap of other examples :P
19:59:26 <Eddi|zuHause> and "ethical mining" not as in "we don't buy anything from Congo", but as in "we choose carefully who in Congo we buy from"
20:01:09 <_dp_> "we pay a share to some scammers in congo with good pr" :p
20:03:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i like this figure: "Share of renewable power generation: Norway: 106.8%" :p
20:03:24 <milek7> change gas supplier to what? renewable gas? such thing exists?
20:03:43 <andythenorth> it's currently very minority
20:03:55 <andythenorth> biogas from crops or compost recycling
20:04:07 <Eddi|zuHause> milek7: first thought would be bio-gas from human waste decomposition
20:04:27 <Eddi|zuHause> like, side product from water treatment
20:04:45 <andythenorth> that currently tends to be used directly on site for power generation
20:04:50 <andythenorth> but could be fed to the gas grid
20:05:01 <andythenorth> same from pig / cow farms
20:05:15 <andythenorth> manure digestion biogas
20:05:31 <milek7> it still generates co2 from combustion, so what is adventage of this?
20:05:39 <mcbanhas> If only solving the climate crisis was all about telling individual to change pension funds and power providers...
20:05:51 <Eddi|zuHause> milek7: it's stuff that would have been released anyway
20:07:16 <andythenorth> the exact timeline is a question
20:07:35 <andythenorth> how long does methane from cow manure take to release vs. capturing it and burning it
20:07:40 <andythenorth> what's the rate of emission?
20:08:03 <Eddi|zuHause> mcbanhas: no, it's not about telling every individual to change habits, it's about putting levers on the right places
20:08:33 <mcbanhas> That sounds like fancy rewording
20:08:50 <Eddi|zuHause> mcbanhas: you're not diverting a river by going out and telling each water atom to change direction
20:09:18 <mcbanhas> That's sort of what I'm saying, yeah
20:09:40 <Eddi|zuHause> you're doing that by either making a few subtle changes so it gets harder to go one direction and easier to go in another direction
20:09:44 <andythenorth> not everyone has to change pension fund or power provider
20:10:25 <Eddi|zuHause> psychology of herd movement is very tricky subject
20:10:28 <andythenorth> the UK has more capital to spend on renewable installation than our spatial planning regime will allow to be built
20:11:16 <mcbanhas> andythenorth, I still think that's wishful thinking. I don't believe you can simply fix problems that are caused by the way the economy itself is structured, which affects the way communities are organized, and the amounts of consumption. These are also to a large extent political problems that can only be fixed through serious political intervention.
20:11:43 <andythenorth> either / or thinking is quite a common fallacy
20:12:11 <andythenorth> it's quite a common self-inflicted brake on groups trying to be progressive
20:12:12 <Eddi|zuHause> the main problem germany has currently with renewable energy production is that the majority production sites are not where the majority of power consumtion is, and they've been delaying the construction of essential power distribuition lines
20:13:15 <Eddi|zuHause> mcbanhas: that is not a new problem, it has at any time in history been discussed whether you can change enough by reform, or if you need an actual revolution
20:13:43 <andythenorth> there is probably an aphorism somewhere
20:13:51 <mcbanhas> the problem is that right now we are running out of time now.
20:14:06 <Eddi|zuHause> where often the revolution wasn't actually solving anything, but ended up right back where it started
20:15:27 <mcbanhas> Eddi|zuHause, that's cynicism at best and denying human and social advancements from political action at worst
20:16:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd dispute both of those claims, but it would be too elaborate for a simple irc discussion
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20:21:22 <andythenorth> revolution has a very poor track record afaict
20:21:30 <andythenorth> it tends to replace one elite with another
20:21:36 <andythenorth> and people die along the way
20:21:47 <andythenorth> not all revolutions are bloody
20:22:36 <andythenorth> but the existence of "The Bloodless Revolution" as a historical event suggests the common outcome
20:23:17 <Eddi|zuHause> revolution has two main problems: 1) it creates reactionary forces that want "the old way" back (that is usually romanticised and never actually existed), and 2) it inherits all the problems of "the old way", and gets blamed for not solving them quickly enough
20:23:27 <andythenorth> also I think we've had revolutions
20:23:36 <andythenorth> Trump, Brexit, 5 Star etc
20:23:45 <andythenorth> alleged revolutions against ruling elites
20:24:05 <andythenorth> seizing of power by the people etc
20:24:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd classify the trump/brexit camp actually in the "reactionary" part
20:24:42 <mcbanhas> Eddi|zuHause, agreed
20:24:53 <mcbanhas> Even stuff like 5 star, etc
20:25:06 <Eddi|zuHause> because the revolution was already on the way before they got into power
20:26:11 <andythenorth> alleged revolutions
20:26:12 <Eddi|zuHause> 5 star is a bit trickier, because i would rather argue that they're of the 2nd camp. they were seeing the anti-berlusconi movement, and didn't get results quickly enough
20:27:00 <Eddi|zuHause> same way as the ukrainian dude, where it was like "we've seen multiple back and forth revolutions"
20:27:19 <andythenorth> progress comes from capitalism
20:27:30 <andythenorth> which is unfortunate
20:28:09 <mcbanhas> 5 star/brexit is more about "we want some of the nice things we used to have" over actually enacting real change
20:28:14 <Eddi|zuHause> capitalism has undoubtedly created previously unimaginable momentum
20:29:07 <andythenorth> it's unfortunate because it concentrates unbelievable wealth and power in the hands of very few
20:29:09 <Eddi|zuHause> but the question we are facing right now is: are we actually in control of that momentum?
20:29:11 <mcbanhas> capitalism was great at mobilizing productive forces up until the 2nd half of the 20th century.
20:29:32 <andythenorth> without any kind of rationale, like divine birthright
20:29:41 <mcbanhas> Eddi|zuHause, if one agrees with Nick Land, not really :p
20:29:56 <mcbanhas> Capitalism has sort of become a beast of its own.
20:30:00 <Eddi|zuHause> mcbanhas: i don't think i've heard that name before
20:30:08 <andythenorth> bring back Kings!
20:30:41 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i wouldn't rule out the possibility of that happening
20:31:53 <mcbanhas> It's already what's implied in the return of strongmen at the head of western economies
20:32:08 <andythenorth> many people would like it
20:32:16 <andythenorth> they would vote for that!
20:32:19 <mcbanhas> And that's the problem with populism
20:32:24 <andythenorth> elected dictators!
20:32:32 <andythenorth> colour TV for all!
20:32:43 <mcbanhas> People don't really like taking responsibility at the end of the day
20:33:09 <mcbanhas> It's sort of what is implied in representative democracies, division of labor, etc
20:34:12 <Eddi|zuHause> anything more advanced than a stone age society needs specialisation of labour, and that includes people who specialize in leadership
20:34:17 <mcbanhas> On one hand you shouldn't be forced to have an opinion on every foreign policy or economic matter. The system should handle that for you, so you can have time to enjoy your life.
20:35:01 <Eddi|zuHause> the question at that point always is: how do you filter out people that are unfit for their specialisation
20:35:47 <mcbanhas> But on the other representative democracy assumes people and communities will make deliberate rational choices, which is a very outdated belief from classic liberalism
20:36:14 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause oh that's easy, you just promote them
20:37:00 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i forgot the name for that
20:37:01 <mcbanhas> Eddi|zuHause, the same question can put on a different, more recent example: how does one prevent conspiracy theories from running amok during pandemic times?
20:37:40 <Eddi|zuHause> mcbanhas: i think it's too early to tell :)
20:38:14 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause Peter Principle
20:38:22 <andythenorth> promotion to limit of competence
20:38:37 <andythenorth> so you end up stuck in a position you are not competent to fill
20:39:17 <Eddi|zuHause> mcbanhas: i've seen someone propose that the problem was created by a history of to discredit previous conspiracy theories by injecting more absurd ideas into them. which is a concept that is now clashing by all those marginalised people now cuming together to form one giant wave
20:39:37 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes, that's what i was thinking
20:40:43 <andythenorth> one cannot prevent conspiracy theories running amok
20:40:48 <andythenorth> they are a memetic virus
20:40:59 <andythenorth> highly adapted to give a high R0
20:41:14 <andythenorth> one can counter them
20:41:15 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that you can't do something hasn't ever prevented people from trying
20:41:26 <andythenorth> we counter viruses
20:41:29 <andythenorth> we have remedies
20:41:55 <andythenorth> but unless we can vaccinate the human brain, we can't prevent memetic virus transmission
20:42:45 <FLHerne> We could just kill everyone
20:42:56 <andythenorth> form a political party for that
20:42:57 <Eddi|zuHause> the best explanation i heard so far was: "conspiracy theories are running amok because all the cancelled flights mean the government couldn't spray enough chemtrails"
20:43:02 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] matthijskooijman opened issue #43: Favors .git version even in release tarball https://git.io/Jf8Xh
20:43:05 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause that's wonderful
20:43:17 <andythenorth> I might have to share that
20:44:19 <mcbanhas> Anyway, who wants to have a look at some strings?
20:48:44 <milek7> election silliness continues there
20:49:07 <milek7> first insisting on 10 may, next haphazardly organized postal voting, then cancelled at last moment by party president, now again express pushing of law through parliament..
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21:01:19 <Eddi|zuHause> very little foreign news currently penetrates the wall-of-corona articles
21:24:20 <mcbanhas> folks can you help me improve these?
21:24:31 <glx> oh we had floodings this week end, changed from covid oriented news
21:25:18 <mcbanhas> I only streamlined the phrasing little a bit. They could use a heavier re-wrte
21:33:55 <nielsm> "Stays green as long as there is one or more green exit signals from the following section of track."
21:34:13 <nielsm> maybe "from the following signal block." instead
21:35:35 <nielsm> "Behaves in the same way as a block signal but" <- I think "behaves the same way" (without "in") is okay here? not sure
21:36:39 <nielsm> "This allows you to build large ramifications of pre-signals" <- I don't think the word "ramifications" is good here, it's certainly not the meaning I usually think of. maybe "cascades"?
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21:39:11 <nielsm> for path signals I'd really want to change the function description entirely: "Allows trains to pass if they can reserve a path to a safe stopping point. Reserved paths can not cross."
21:39:16 <mcbanhas> cascades sounds a bit weird. "Large branches" or maybe even "large networks"?
21:40:03 <nielsm> use the full description for both "normal" and one-way path signals, but add one of "Can be passed from the back" or "Can not be passed from the back"
21:42:41 <nielsm> "This parameter sets the number of tiles inbetween signals" <- "Sets the number of tiles frome one signal to the next" (starting with "this parameter" is unnecessary)
21:54:25 <FLHerne> The number of tiles when?
21:55:03 <FLHerne> "Sets the number of tiles between signals when dragging to build more than one"
21:56:30 <FLHerne> "Sets the number of tiles between signals built by dragging"
21:57:24 <FLHerne> "Sets the number of tiles between signals when building more than one"
21:57:39 <FLHerne> ...more than one at a time?
22:02:17 <nielsm> FLHerne I intentionally left out the second half of the sentence because that was fine
22:03:48 <mcbanhas> Sets the number of tiles between signals when using auto-placement?
22:04:33 <mcbanhas> I dunno, I feel we must first decide what exactly to call the drag-to-autobuild function
22:05:08 <mcbanhas> Like I called it signal auto-placement on the other two lines below, but I don't think it's good enough
22:05:35 <mcbanhas> Maybe actually calling it "Drag-to-build" wouldn't be a bad idea
22:14:48 <TrueBrain> frosch123 : CC'd you as we should improve that error flow I guess :D
22:20:04 <nielsm> mcbanhas the problem with writing "between signals" is that it's not signals
22:20:17 <nielsm> when you set it to 1 you build signals every tile, with 2 it builds every other tile, and so on
22:20:38 <nielsm> uh the problem is that it's not *distance*
22:20:52 <nielsm> or... damn I think I should maybe sleep
22:21:10 <mcbanhas> then we can use the word interval
22:21:37 <nielsm> (that's a terrible term)
22:21:56 <nielsm> Tile-frequency of drag-construcuted signals
22:24:23 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #7896: Feature: Push-buttons on storybook pages https://git.io/Jf8SL
22:31:10 <mcbanhas> FLHerne, any more ideas?
22:31:40 <FLHerne> mcbanhas: I'm not looking right now, trying to improve nml tests
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23:03:34 <andythenorth> I wanted a coal tar distillery
23:03:43 <andythenorth> as a source of paracetamol
23:04:03 <andythenorth> but I suspect I have a cargo quantity impedance mismatch
23:07:30 <milek7> cities needing paracetamol to grow?
23:10:25 <andythenorth> we probably don't ship trainloads of it though
23:12:40 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
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23:13:21 <andythenorth> 150k tons per year
23:52:00 *** Speeder has joined #openttd
23:52:42 <Speeder> so, I remembered that in 2014 I was messing with heightmaps, and stopped due to height limit being low
23:52:50 <Speeder> 2015 seemly got the height limit increased
23:53:01 <Speeder> so I decided to muck around with heightmap again, maybe release the one I was working on back then
23:53:49 <Speeder> my question is: if I got it right, each pixel of a heightmap is a CORNER, not a tile?
23:57:17 <Yexo> Yes. The four corners of a tile can have different heights, so there is no such ting as "single height of a tile"
continue to next day ⏵
