IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-04-30
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01:50:40 <supermop_Home> and now I've somehow stayed connected for hours
02:27:15 <adikt> every time i tell one of my friends to play openttd i get laughed at
02:27:19 <adikt> they dont know a good time
02:37:50 <FLHerne> Get different friends :P
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07:57:34 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Good to know about the apt update in GH actions, I was just working on a workflow myself (partly based on the nml workflow), which also uses apt :-)
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09:45:04 <andythenorth> I wanted to do both Ethlyene and Propylene cargos but they come from the same cracker plant, and go to the same polymer plant, so no point
09:51:58 <andythenorth> I have about 30 hydrocarbon cargos :)
10:36:39 <_dp_> not much of a tree but whatever :p
10:40:47 <andythenorth> go on, add specific support for my newgrf :D
10:40:49 <andythenorth> then I'll change it :P
10:41:20 <andythenorth> I would actually like an action0 property for tech level on vehicles
10:41:46 <andythenorth> then GS could use it
10:41:52 <_dp_> andythenorth, at this point I don't even know what goals to make for default engines and yours have like 10x more :p
10:42:39 <andythenorth> I don't know enough about GS and the goals it can support :|
10:42:48 <andythenorth> I know about cargo goals from Busy Bee
10:43:39 <_dp_> well, it's not GS and I can probably support pretty much anything with a bit of coding xD
10:43:45 <andythenorth> many goal ideas: 'maintain outstanding rating in the town for 5 years to get a new engine'
10:44:25 <andythenorth> divide the map into grid regions (or just use towns): 'transport at least 50% of available cargo in this region for 1 year'
10:45:09 <andythenorth> do we have vehicle utilisation, or average speed statistics? :P
10:45:18 <_dp_> andythenorth, ok, I take it back, you ideas are not just a bit of coding xDDD
10:45:32 <andythenorth> or amount of infrastructure per cargo unit delivered / year?
10:45:43 <andythenorth> there are lots of RL or game efficiency measures :)
10:45:53 <andythenorth> maybe they aren't lolz enough
10:45:59 <Wolf01> "Keep specific engine reliability over x%"?
10:46:21 <andythenorth> oof that would be hard :D
10:46:33 <andythenorth> just seems town growth is a hammer
10:46:37 <andythenorth> so every goal looks like a nail
10:46:44 <_dp_> lol, just keep it in the depot :p
10:46:57 <andythenorth> we basically only have town growth, so all goal games orient to that
10:47:10 <andythenorth> but town growth is the most boring part of the game
10:47:20 <andythenorth> it's both easy and tedious, just yak-shaving
10:47:32 <andythenorth> 'pick town, add buses, repeat'
10:47:35 <andythenorth> town is now 100k
10:47:38 <_dp_> andythenorth, you clearly haven't played any decent citybuilder :p
10:47:54 <andythenorth> I turn town growth off in my games, it gets in the way
10:48:18 <Wolf01> _dp_: I would look at steam achievements for this genre of game
10:48:33 <Wolf01> Just to get some ideas
10:48:43 <andythenorth> I would like to connect town growth to delivered cargos, but that needs a patched client
10:48:46 <Wolf01> Next step, OTTD trading cards
10:50:11 <_dp_> problem is to craft a reasonable gameplay out of it
10:51:07 <Wolf01> Should not be an easter egg hunt
10:52:08 <_dp_> andythenorth, there are plenty of CB gamescrips
10:52:25 <_dp_> some are good enough, at least for singleplayer
11:10:54 <andythenorth> how do they manage delivered cargos?
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11:49:59 <Samu> looks like trAIns queue implementation includes the priority value (aka estimated cost) in the item itself, so the Insert function only needs 1 parameter
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12:45:13 <Samu> finally managed to include trAIns priority queue working without crashing, let's just hope it's doing as intended now
12:46:25 <Samu> yay, it worked! however the results disappoint
12:46:38 <Samu> I expected the holy grail of queues
12:53:45 <Wolf01> What do you expect for a queue?
12:54:58 <Samu> low number of ticks needed
12:55:12 <LordAro> trAIns' pathfinder has never struck me as particularly fast
12:55:56 <Samu> i mean, the results aren't as good as that of terron's
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12:57:23 <Samu> and railwai's somewhere in the middle
12:59:50 <Samu> and it even involved some cahnges in the node
13:00:02 <Samu> i was not worth the trouble :(
13:06:14 <Samu> nothing beats PR#8091 implementation though
13:08:52 <Samu> 3482 for shipai's implementation, aka the Native Heap I uploaded 3 weeks ago
13:09:08 <Samu> which turns out to be memory hungry, almost like a virus
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16:24:03 <Samu> which one is faster ? 10 / 2 or 10 >> 1 ?
16:28:03 <andythenorth> how many bitcoin has our client mined today?
16:37:40 <planetmaker> Samu, write the code so that it makes sense. If you do math, then use division. If you use bit arithmetics, use bit shift
16:37:54 <planetmaker> pre-mature optimization is the root of much evil :)
16:38:10 <planetmaker> and compilers are reasonably intelligent meanwhile
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16:40:15 <nielsm> and if you're writing Squirrel then the difference between operators will likely be dwarfed by the interpreter
17:04:20 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] giordy commented on issue #8038: Fullscreen mode in MacOSX is almost unusable https://git.io/Jv1n7
17:10:32 <Eddi|zuHause> we should maybe add a squirrel JIT compiler? :p
17:10:52 <LordAro> someone would have to write one first
17:11:18 <Eddi|zuHause> how hard could it be :p
17:11:50 <milek7> transpile to javascript first ;P
17:17:07 <Samu> why is that the fastest implementations always results in the most cpu intensive ones
17:18:38 <Samu> I got 3 results: 3646, 3631 and 3622
17:20:26 <Samu> 3646 is the same as the 3622 but using a single list
17:21:20 <milek7> you didn't post units, but sounds like meaningless difference
17:21:40 <Samu> I did managed to shrink railwai's 3671 to 3646 ticks!
17:23:10 <Samu> i think im gonna switch to terron's priority queue
17:23:27 <Samu> it kind of "cheats" for ties
17:24:34 <Samu> items with the same priority as others already in the list are inserted in a random spot, not at beginning of the tie or end of the tie
17:44:40 <Eddi|zuHause> so samu has now switches from pointless micro-optimisations to potentially dangerous semantics changes, just for the sake of a few ticks?
18:15:11 <andythenorth> this is how people learn
18:15:16 <andythenorth> or fail to learn
18:15:31 <andythenorth> or learn, but refuse to pay attention to what they've learnt, for lolz
18:19:40 <luaduck> really stoopid question, but does PACKET_UDP_SERVER_DETAIL_INFO properly return a list of clients inside companies?
18:19:51 <luaduck> writing a packet parser and I always end up with an empty string
18:22:08 <luaduck> hm, reading the source, it appears it doesn't
18:22:24 <luaduck> interestingly everyone's implementations that I've seen of it read a string after the stations count
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18:35:10 <TrueBrain> guess they never have an AI active :P
18:36:20 <andythenorth> the lolz are back
18:41:25 <andythenorth> mail delivery is back
18:57:29 <andythenorth> so can I start randomly closing tickets to see if anyone misses them?
18:57:35 <andythenorth> chaos-ticket-monkey
19:00:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure if i agree with that strategy
19:01:01 <andythenorth> it would come with a promise to re-open them
19:01:20 <andythenorth> but there would be too much spam
19:01:23 <andythenorth> it would ruin our logs
19:19:52 <andythenorth> ok brains, image CDNs: cloudinary.com or imgix.com?
19:24:51 <Eddi|zuHause> never heard of either of those
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19:56:50 <andythenorth> what kind of web design community channel is this anyway?
19:58:59 <luaduck> iSoSyS: yeah, found that one, thanks!
19:59:33 <luaduck> unfortunately I'm writing something that doesn't auth as a client, so I'm stuck with UDP
19:59:42 <luaduck> sending PACKET_SERVER_COMPANY_INFO requires auth afaik?
20:00:07 <luaduck> (my fix to this is going to be to use adminport)
20:03:15 <Wolf01> I'm still checking my work... enough work is enough, I need to forget it until monday
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21:00:00 <iSoSyS> @luaduck, I just tested and it seems it does not needs any auth step. It just requires a tcp connection.
21:44:21 <TrueBrain> so, current stats .. top 5 BaNaNaS entries .. 1) 120GB traffic, 2) 97GB, 3) 7GB, 4) 3GB, 5) 2GB
21:45:28 <andythenorth> first to 1TB wins?
21:46:28 <TrueBrain> bananas-server still crashes a few times a day .. still OOM :P I know what it is, but I have to debug it to see how to avoid it
21:46:56 <frosch123> sadly they are probably first-time downloads
21:47:19 <frosch123> otherwise i would have suggested to add librsync for the uncompressed data to ottd
21:50:15 <TrueBrain> @calc 2600000/60 * 2 / 1024 / 1024
21:50:15 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.0826517740885
21:50:24 <TrueBrain> @calc 2600000/60 * 2 / 1024
21:50:24 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 84.6354166667
21:50:33 <TrueBrain> 84 kbit/s of traffic over TCP :P
21:51:00 <andythenorth> dedicated fan obviously
21:51:04 <andythenorth> do I get royalties?
21:59:21 <TrueBrain> still surprised there are no complaints about the new BaNaNaS :P
21:59:25 <TrueBrain> also no compliments, but .. I take it :)
21:59:58 <frosch123> looks like abase and zbase only differ in 50 sprites
22:02:49 <frosch123> you could save half the bandwidth, if you could put them into the same zip. if just ottd supported that :)
22:03:39 <TrueBrain> well, cache-rate is a lot higher than I expected
22:04:02 <TrueBrain> we are more focused in a single region .. most really is EU
22:04:05 <TrueBrain> which is a good thing
22:04:40 <Eddi|zuHause> than is correct usage
22:05:03 <TrueBrain> owh, sorry, internal joke :P You get these lovely clases that tell you that it is 'then' when there is an order
22:05:14 <TrueBrain> so my mind went: first I was not expected it ... then I was
22:05:34 <TrueBrain> I love how silly the English language is, and how alien for outsiders :P
22:05:50 <frosch123> then/than is mostly a dutch people issue
22:05:58 <TrueBrain> yes; we just have 1 word for it
22:06:01 <TrueBrain> as nobody really cares :P
22:06:17 <TrueBrain> well, no, we have 2, but they are not the same .. what-ever
22:07:04 <TrueBrain> anyway, the one region thing helps, as if CloudFlare allows us to be hosted by them for this, it means their cache-hit-rate will also be high
22:07:13 <TrueBrain> which means a lot less traffic in AWS :D
22:07:55 <TrueBrain> and given CloudFlare is one of those companies were there are still humans at work, I give it good odds they help us out :)
22:31:08 <TrueBrain> @calc 240000 / 6000
22:31:17 <TrueBrain> euh..yeah, typing is hard
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22:36:25 <frosch123> the most surprising thing to me is how many people already have a gh account
22:36:46 <frosch123> i guess that's part of why noone complains, they enjoy having less accounts
22:38:34 <frosch123> i would be less suprised if their content were ais etc. but also scenario/heighmaps people are already on gh
22:48:17 <TrueBrain> k, sent CloudFlare a pretty-please letter
23:21:55 <Samu> Awesome content by SamuXarick
23:28:08 <Samu> there's no more statistics about number of downloads?
23:29:16 <Samu> meh, it doesn't matter much, maybe it's better this way
23:30:10 <Samu> I should prepare to release the canal pathfinder, and stop these optimizing tests
23:47:52 <andythenorth> should I join reddit?
23:49:39 <frosch123> it's like suggestions forum
23:49:49 <frosch123> some thing are asked every 5 days
23:49:59 <andythenorth> I am just disturbed that server 3 has FIRS 1.4.5 on it :P
23:50:06 <andythenorth> they could...stop that
23:50:34 <frosch123> that version did not yet have economies?
23:52:07 <andythenorth> I think it has a weird supplies mechanic too
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