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00:13:44  <andythenorth> is it bed time?

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08:36:33  <andythenorth> yo

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10:49:27  <Samu> hi

10:51:56  <Samu> error: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects

10:52:00  <Samu> did it die

10:57:00  <andythenorth> yes

10:57:41  <andythenorth> usually someone from coop will restart it, usually the same day

10:57:42  <LordAro> F

10:57:57  <andythenorth> or P or S

10:58:21  <andythenorth> but this is one of the reasons for devzone -> GitHub

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11:09:56  <Samu> if I am to release my canal pathfinder ai library to bananas, how would others be able to import it?

11:10:12  <Samu> will it show up in online content?

11:12:25  <Samu> ah, it's on Check Online Content instead

11:12:58  <Samu> not shown if i click from inside AI/Game Script settings

11:14:46  <Samu> how do I force download Graph.Aystar 5? https://bananas.openttd.org/package/ai-library/4752412a

11:14:55  <Samu> i got 4 and 6, but not 5

11:15:17  <Samu> wanted to see if version 5 doesn't include the GetLength part

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11:59:37  <Eddi|zuHause> so coop depends on FPS?

12:00:21  <Eddi|zuHause> you know i'm generally short on those :p

12:37:28  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8093: Regular server desynchronisations from clients https://git.io/JfkmV

12:45:03  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8099: UI elements (incl. news message) do not resize properly, causing graphical glitches https://git.io/JftoL

12:51:28  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 opened issue #8102: Installer does not say that Windows 8 and 10 are supported. https://git.io/JfO7I

12:52:13  <andythenorth> I should send James the issue count memo

12:52:34  <andythenorth> every issue kills a kitten

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13:00:48  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge commented on issue #8102: Installer does not say that Windows 8 and 10 are supported. https://git.io/JfO7I

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13:02:55  <LordAro> i still think at least 70% of these matix users are bots

13:03:01  <LordAro> matrix*

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13:19:21  <frosch123> TrueBrain: what do we still run on digital ocean?

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13:30:05  * Heiki[m] is not a bot

13:36:13  * andythenorth considering building RL state machines (model train signals)

13:36:34  <andythenorth> might have to learn about diodes and relays

13:37:45  <andythenorth> the logic isn't hard to state

13:37:57  <andythenorth> but checking 'vars' involves a lot of wires :(

13:39:05  <frosch123> but relays are like diesel engines, while diodes are electric. how can you mix them?

13:39:58  <andythenorth> I don't know yet :)

13:40:19  <andythenorth> I think I need diodes to prevent one var over-writing another

13:41:32  <andythenorth> I might not need the relays, but they're an abstraction layer - they reduce the number of wires I have to solder to the physical switch in the control panel

13:42:11  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think you should go digital if you have that kind of thoughts

13:42:17  <andythenorth> sophisticated railway modellers actually just write software to control these things :P

13:42:28  <andythenorth> but that's just replicating the hobby I already have

13:42:31  <andythenorth> and my day job

13:42:45  <andythenorth> code does not smell like solder

13:43:07  <Eddi|zuHause> you can still solder a raspi to your layout :p

13:43:42  <andythenorth> arduino seems to be the weapon of choice

13:43:51  <Eddi|zuHause> like, you can actually put it into a signal box :p

13:44:46  <andythenorth> I was trying to keep it all rigorously analogue

13:44:50  <andythenorth> where is the boundary? :P

13:45:01  * andythenorth googles 'solid state electronics'

13:45:27  <andythenorth> hmm transistors are 'just' tiny relays

13:45:31  <andythenorth> and diodes are diodes

13:45:38  <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_electronics

13:46:00  <Eddi|zuHause> analogue means you can't have any real signal logic, you can press only buttons

13:46:32  <Eddi|zuHause> my signals have a relais built into them

13:46:52  <Eddi|zuHause> so if you switch them red/green it can control the power state of the track

13:47:04  <andythenorth> my kids want that

13:47:22  <andythenorth> I've also found 3DPT or 4DPT switches can achieve the same result

13:47:26  <andythenorth> but longer wires needed :P

13:47:42  <andythenorth> it's quite interesting trying different things

13:47:43  <Eddi|zuHause> there's about a 30-40cm piece of track that is controlled by that signal, the rest is always powered

13:47:58  <andythenorth> yeah that's exactly what my kids are proposing

13:48:08  <andythenorth> I also have to refactor the wiring colour schema :P

13:48:25  <Eddi|zuHause> pro tip for wiring longer distances: ethernet cables

13:48:45  <andythenorth> a 120cm x 360cm oval turns out to have a lot of complexity

13:49:24  <Eddi|zuHause> you have 8 wires in a cable

13:49:27  <TrueBrain> frosch123 : the old new CDN. On the agenda to demolish this month.

13:50:40  <andythenorth> there's also train detector signals, which I'm considering :P

13:51:02  <andythenorth> and I found a push-button sound circuit board which uses MP3s loaded over USB

13:51:23  <Eddi|zuHause> if you want sound, really go digital

13:51:24  <andythenorth> these trains are all analogue, in the UK adding DCC and sound is 200% price

13:51:56  <andythenorth> I am stubbornly resisting DCC

13:52:04  <andythenorth> 2 wire analogue is more interesting

13:52:19  <andythenorth> I have a box full of DCC chips stripped out of ebay purchases

13:52:21  <Eddi|zuHause> my trains are all 30 years old

13:52:32  <andythenorth> I send you DCC chips :P

13:52:40  <Eddi|zuHause> no digital stuff in this...

13:53:07  <Eddi|zuHause> but you can actually power the electric engines from an overhead wire

13:53:47  <andythenorth> my kids also want that

13:54:01  <andythenorth> and they are planning live power pylons also for some reason

13:54:12  <andythenorth> that won't be happening

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13:56:14  <Eddi|zuHause> my engines have a screw on the top that lets you turn it 90° to switch from rail-mode to overhead-mode

13:56:48  <Eddi|zuHause> as in, it operates an actual physical switch

13:58:04  <andythenorth> are they 2 rail or 3 rail?

14:03:40  <Wolf01> <andythenorth> but checking 'vars' involves a lot of wires :( <- make a can bus and attach everything to 1 wire :P

14:04:12  <andythenorth> that's a bit DCC ish :)

14:11:28  <Wolf01> Nah, you can make an analog multiplexer

14:17:04  <andythenorth> o_O

14:21:25  <Wolf01> A bit of transistors, some op-amps, a load of resistances... we made a simple one at school with 3 channels sensing the current on a wire

14:24:42  <Flygon> Scrolling up.

14:24:50  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: my trains are 2-rail

14:25:03  <Flygon> That chat is really making me want to properly learn Electronics so I can design that enhanced SN76489.

14:25:30  <Flygon> (I whipped up something accumulator based, but I don't have the skills to implement it. :D)

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14:26:25  <Wolf01> Flygon, nice :)

14:28:20  <Flygon> tl;dr - imagine a really really ghetto SID.

14:29:12  <Flygon> 4-bit volume precision, logarithmic. So the Saw/Triangle are actually non-linear, like the AY "Buzzer" instruments.

14:29:25  <Flygon> 16 Duty Cycles. No ADSR envelopes.

14:29:49  <Flygon> Honestly, it was an exercise in figuring out how the SN76489 could've been not-crappy but also not-RIP-silicon-budget.

14:30:28  <Eddi|zuHause> i've not understood a single sentence you just said

14:30:43  <Flygon> Soundchip use to go Beep, now it goes Brrrr.

14:31:14  <Eddi|zuHause> so, you invented a door bell? :p

14:31:23  <andythenorth> ooof

14:31:26  <andythenorth> I was eating Eddi|zuHause

14:31:38  <Flygon> Sure, I've invented the Door Bell. :P

14:31:42  <andythenorth> well played

14:31:58  * Flygon actually laughing really hard IRL

14:49:27  <Samu> how do I download version 5 ? https://bananas.openttd.org/package/ai-library/4752412a/2009-03-29T20:06:10+00:00

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14:52:04  <andythenorth> so 'alkenes' or 'olefins'? :P

14:52:41  <supermop_Home> olefins sounds very british

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14:53:01  <andythenorth> they seem to be interchangeable

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14:53:22  <supermop_Home> but idk if many americans ever utter the word 'alkenes' outside of high school chemistry class

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14:54:01  <andythenorth> I didn't know it existed until a few weeks ago

14:54:13  <andythenorth> chemistry is largely mysterious to me

14:54:40  <supermop_Home> tbh I've never heard my father-in-law, a chemical engineer who specialized in industrial production of polypropylene, say either word

14:55:13  <supermop_Home> but i know you weirdos say 'polyolefin'?

14:56:23  <andythenorth> well usually it would be propene (propylene) and ethene (ethylene)

14:56:32  <andythenorth> as commodity basic chemicals

14:56:41  <andythenorth> but as they both are cracked from naptha in the same cracker

14:56:47  <andythenorth> and both go to a polymer plant...

14:57:16  <supermop_Home> i mean we usually use the 'ene suffix names and similar for most organics here

14:57:17  <andythenorth> there are alternative cracking chains which split them, but they seem to be less standard

14:57:39  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so i think i've heard "olefines" more before

14:58:09  <supermop_Home> but wouldn't really say the generic al-xxx type name outside of an academic or theory type setting

14:58:46  <supermop_Home> Eddi|zuHause i think its us / Europe divide then?

14:59:33  <Eddi|zuHause> dunno, they started calling our local chemistry complex that, when the americans (DOW) took over

14:59:42  <andythenorth> I don't really like composite cargos, but chemical industry requires some level of generic grouping

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15:00:24  <supermop_Home> Eddi|zuHause also what industry say vs us lay people who are trying to remember our high school text books and CRC manuals might differ

15:00:58  <Eddi|zuHause> i think when we design an industry set, we can orient ourselves on the industry terminology

15:01:01  <andythenorth> there are about 33 listed here https://www.essentialchemicalindustry.org/chemicals.html

15:01:14  <andythenorth> they're not all relevant, and some other cargos are needed

15:01:39  <andythenorth> some of the more niche polymer feedstocks aren't worth covering

15:02:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i think that list is too specific for game abstraction terms

15:02:36  <andythenorth> the organics are definitely

15:02:46  <supermop_Home> i just never encounter olefin in my life except when talking to british designers who refer to polypropylene chairs and bins from muji as 'polyolefin'

15:02:55  <andythenorth> my rough guide has been to look at how many million tonnes are produced

15:03:11  <andythenorth> a secondary consideration is if the industry appearance or transport method is 'interesting'

15:03:52  <supermop_Home> hoppers of pellets

15:03:56  <andythenorth> taken too literally everything will travel by either insulated tank car, or pipeline

15:04:01  <supermop_Home> more fun than pipes

15:04:03  <andythenorth> yes pellets

15:04:04  <andythenorth> etc

15:04:05  <supermop_Home> so far

15:04:20  <andythenorth> as we don't have pipelines, that's a thing

15:04:26  <andythenorth> we do have PIPE :P

15:04:43  <supermop_Home> bucket ropeway of pellets - pipe even the solids

15:05:31  <supermop_Home> torpedo cars of molten plastic

15:07:40  <andythenorth> transport tubes

15:08:08  <andythenorth> current https://firs-test-1.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/firs-bltc/docs/html/economies.html#better_living_through_chemistry

15:08:10  <andythenorth> quite broken

15:08:44  <andythenorth> pleasingly fat middle though

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15:28:22  <supermop_Home> ugh

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15:50:40  <Samu> oh no, I found a ship pathfinder https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=797775#p797775

15:50:46  <Samu> i've been working for nothing

15:51:20  <Samu> gonna test it

15:59:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8099: UI elements (incl. news message) do not resize properly, causing graphical glitches https://git.io/JftoL

16:14:54  <Samu> has some outdated code like AIAbstractList, it's now AIlist

16:14:58  <Samu> AIList*

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16:55:55  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8093: Regular server desynchronisations from clients https://git.io/JfkmV

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17:03:15  <Samu> well, the pathfinder is flawed

17:03:29  <Samu> already found it blocking old paths with locks

17:03:49  <Samu> looks like mine is "superior"

17:04:16  <Samu> it also fails building aqueducts due to other aqueducts planned

17:05:00  <Samu> but it's faster than mine :(

17:07:20  <Samu> https://i.imgur.com/0LbCcd5.png - connecting 5A to 5B, my pathfinder on the left, the one i found on the forums on the right

17:16:42  <andythenorth> hmm chemistry is so much more complicated than steel industry

17:17:23  <andythenorth> steel: burn 3 minerals together, pour out, burn again with oxygen + additives -> roll into shapes -> profit

17:18:34  <andythenorth> chem industry seems to vary highly by era, country and process

17:18:47  <andythenorth> sometimes an A is processed to produce B

17:18:55  <andythenorth> and sometimes B is processed to produce A

17:19:15  <andythenorth> and sometimes processing B into C produces more A

17:19:18  <andythenorth> very baffling

17:19:51  <andythenorth> I mean it's all just bonds and counting, but eh

17:28:53  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 opened pull request #8103: Fix #8093: Do not call OrderBackup::Restore in the command test run, and use DC_AUTOREPLACE for actions that shall be reverted. https://git.io/JfOjg

17:41:14  <LordAro> oh woops

17:41:21  <LordAro> TrueBrain_ii: ^ you broke the CI :p

17:41:33  <LordAro> indirectly

17:42:03  <glx> maybe we just need to fix yaml

17:42:10  <LordAro> yeah, that'd be the better solution

17:43:07  <LordAro> frosch123: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/azure-pipelines/templates/ci-opengfx.yml might as well update it in the same PR

17:43:57  <frosch123> no idea what that means

17:44:08  <frosch123> anyway, i don't get this OrderBackup thing yet

17:44:44  <LordAro> url has moved to https://cdn.openttd.org/opengfx-releases/0.6.0/opengfx-0.6.0-all.zip

17:44:58  <frosch123> how does ogfx affect openttd?

17:45:08  <LordAro> it's required for regression tests

17:45:14  <LordAro> because Reasons(tm)

17:48:17  <glx> linux CF should be fine, it uses apt to get opengfx

17:48:18  <frosch123> oi, we have an entire folder for azure stuff

17:50:14  <frosch123> LordAro: if the old ogfx url is no longer valid, then also our installer does no longer work?

17:50:27  <LordAro> TB said he tested it...

17:51:35  <Eddi|zuHause> "it was tested" was always a sure thing that something breaks right after release :p

17:51:57  <glx> this one works

17:52:24  <glx> installer uses http://binaries.openttd.org/installer/opengfx-1.2.0.7z

17:52:25  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 updated pull request #8103: Fix #8093: Do not call OrderBackup::Restore in the command test run, and use DC_AUTOREPLACE for actions that shall be reverted. https://git.io/JfOjg

17:57:31  * glx fetches the PR to do some tests :)

17:58:48  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 updated pull request #8103: Fix #8093: Build+Refit changed game-state in command test run, and thus caused desyncs https://git.io/JfOjg

17:58:50  <frosch123> glx: i added another commit

17:59:43  <frosch123> not sure whether to put first and third into one

17:59:48  <frosch123> or whether to split the first into two

18:12:47  <glx> frosch123: seems to work

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18:15:06  <glx> ah I triggered an assert

18:16:54  <nielsm> I wonder if it's be reasonable to make industry production changes merge into a single shared monthly newspaper in smooth economy

18:19:34  <glx> frosch123: test and exec may return different costs

18:21:23  <frosch123> that sounds odd

18:21:47  <glx> I think it happens when free wagons can be refited

18:22:03  <glx> I'll retry this exact case to be sure

18:23:52  <frosch123> ah, you built a wagon?

18:24:32  <glx> yep confirmed

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18:25:51  <glx> using UKRS I build a utility van ([mail], goods, valuable), then I build a DMU ([passenger], mail, valuable) with auto refit to valuables

18:28:14  <frosch123> yeah, it attaches the free wagons first, then refits them

18:28:27  <frosch123> i guess the intention is that the free wagons shall not be refitted?

18:28:55  <nielsm> quite sure only the one wagon you're building should refit

18:29:33  <glx> yes freewagons attached to the new engine should not be refited

18:30:27  <frosch123> p2 bit 25

18:30:42  <frosch123> do i just put 1 << 25 into the code? i can't remember

18:32:18  <glx> trying with the flag

18:32:29  <frosch123> it's wrong

18:32:33  <frosch123> 1 << 16 is better

18:32:37  <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: "it was tested" was always a sure thing that something breaks  <- because the things people bother to test at all are the risky ones? :P

18:33:47  <FLHerne> Similarly, code with a comment explaining how the implementation works is more likely to be wrong

18:34:40  <glx> comment is rarely updated when implementation changes ;)

18:35:02  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 updated pull request #8103: Fix #8093: Build+Refit changed game-state in command test run, and thus caused desyncs https://git.io/JfOjg

18:35:54  <TrueBrain> there is always this one place thse uses some deprecated URLs :D Happy we found that place :P

18:36:35  <glx> frosch123: 1 << 25 works for me

18:37:33  <frosch123> it should break for articulated and dual-headed engines

18:37:40  <TrueBrain> ah, I was about to say: I did redirect /extra, didn't I ? But opengfx got renamed ofc :D Guess apt and yum are also going to break :P

18:37:40  <glx> oh no only head of multihead is refitted

18:37:59  <glx> but it doesn't assert ;)

18:46:38  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] BeWorld2018 opened issue #8104: SDL2 : Fullscreen to Window https://git.io/Jf3Jn

18:51:52  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8103: Fix #8093: Build+Refit changed game-state in command test run, and thus caused desyncs https://git.io/Jf3JX

18:55:44  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8104: SDL2 : Fullscreen to Window https://git.io/Jf3Jn

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19:27:09  <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/BaNaNaS/compare/6ac43cc788f9...da61bb20fde9 <- this is what we did it for frosch123  :) I am really happy people can finally make edits like this :)

19:27:19  <TrueBrain> (I am being serious, to be clear)

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19:27:44  <frosch123> oh, i thought you meant renaming stuff

19:27:46  <TrueBrain> and I said this while andythenorth was gone, because spies :)

19:27:52  <andythenorth> yes

19:28:11  <frosch123> anyway, when does ottd drop the spritefont? :p

19:28:24  <TrueBrain> when you finally make a patch for it?

19:30:04  <frosch123> the description was already in korean before

19:30:48  <TrueBrain> CloudFlare hasn't responded yet ... I hate waiting for repliesssssssss :D

19:31:05  <frosch123> it's friday

19:31:27  <frosch123> maybe their ceo is ottd fan :p

19:31:31  <TrueBrain> I sent it yesterday! :P

19:31:44  <TrueBrain> yeah, that is my scare .. that they clicked the link, started to play, and forgot to reply :P

19:31:49  *** andythenorth has quit IRC

19:31:56  <TrueBrain> nah, they are busy people :) They will get back to me sooner or later :)

19:32:19  <frosch123> how many employees do they have? 10?

19:32:27  <TrueBrain> a LOT more

19:32:37  <TrueBrain> https://www.cloudflare.com/people/

19:33:03  <frosch123> they put everyone on their website?

19:33:10  <frosch123> boy would that page burn in germany :)

19:33:16  <TrueBrain> that I do not know; but at least those people work their :P

19:33:33  <TrueBrain> it is only a first-name

19:33:37  <TrueBrain> it is not THAT bad

19:34:11  <frosch123> oh, Darth SriBear works there

19:36:58  <frosch123> TrueBrain: even on my company-internal sites, about 10% do not have a photo

19:40:04  <frosch123> there are 814 people listed on that page. wiki claims valve has only 360

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19:41:17  <frosch123> hmm i guess they have business clients instead of end-customers. so they probably actively sell stuff

19:43:40  <frosch123> also, user migrations are now 13:13, tt-forums vs email

19:43:49  <frosch123> i was hoping for more forum people

19:45:21  *** iSoSyS has quit IRC

19:45:46  <frosch123> no, lies, i did 3 on my own, so email is a head

20:02:23  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 opened pull request #8105: Fix: OpenGFX download link did no longer work. https://git.io/Jf3kP

20:02:29  <frosch123> let's see whether 7z is installed

20:03:20  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd

20:04:24  <frosch123> nope, missing at least on osx

20:05:15  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] pyup-bot opened pull request #23: Scheduled monthly dependency update for May https://git.io/Jf3k5

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20:12:20  <LordAro> ha

20:14:45  <nielsm> turns out, 7z is _not_ installed on the mac

20:14:55  <frosch123> osx-dependencies already contains xz

20:15:16  <frosch123> unless those are just libs

20:16:53  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8105: Fix: OpenGFX download link did no longer work. https://git.io/Jf3Iq

20:17:22  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 updated pull request #8105: Fix: OpenGFX download link did no longer work. https://git.io/Jf3kP

20:17:54  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] LordAro approved pull request #23: Scheduled monthly dependency update for May https://git.io/Jf3Is

20:17:55  <frosch123> aw, i really liked making it a unit-test for the installer

20:17:59  <TrueBrain> there really is no benefit to using "1.2.0" which is actually "0.6.0" .. this will go horribly wrong :P

20:18:17  <TrueBrain> it is REALYL the wrong place if that was your goal :P

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20:18:44  <frosch123> well, i also didn't like writing a fixed version into it

20:19:08  <LordAro> mm, there's no "latest" link for the releases, is there?

20:19:24  <TrueBrain> you can fetch the latest.yaml, if that is your itch

20:19:26  <LordAro> probably not one that wouldn't have the version in the filename, anyway

20:19:39  <TrueBrain> https://cdn.openttd.org/opengfx-releases/latest.yaml

20:19:50  <frosch123> oh dear, i thought xz and 7z were the same :p

20:20:01  <LordAro> oh dear.

20:20:04  <LordAro> they're really not

20:20:33  <TrueBrain> but who ever thought up naming the installer files "opengfx-1.2.0" to indicate OpenTTD client versions should retroactively be punished (sorry .. I am guessing Rb)

20:21:11  <frosch123> how would you have named them?

20:21:17  <frosch123> it seems to meet all goals

20:21:32  <TrueBrain> having a opengfx-0.6.0 and an opengfx-1.2.0 .. is .. just asking for trouble

20:21:33  <frosch123> giving installers the latest version that is compatible

20:21:50  <TrueBrain> so anything else would have worked :P

20:21:53  <TrueBrain> just .. about .. anything

20:22:04  <TrueBrain> opengfx-for-openttd-1.2.0+ might have been the best :P

20:23:48  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] matthijskooijman opened issue #111: Versioned source tarball not available through github https://git.io/Jf3IB

20:23:53  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain merged pull request #23: Scheduled monthly dependency update for May https://git.io/Jf3k5

20:24:15  <TrueBrain> we will see if LordAro is correct :D

20:24:39  <TrueBrain> I am surprised 'jq' is pretty common these days, but there is not a common tool for yaml yet?

20:25:18  <TrueBrain> pip install yq

20:25:19  <TrueBrain> lol

20:25:39  <LordAro> pronounced "yuck"

20:26:16  <TrueBrain> guess it is "good enough"

20:28:33  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 updated pull request #8105: Fix: OpenGFX download link did no longer work. https://git.io/Jf3kP

20:35:00  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] matthijskooijman commented on issue #111: Versioned source tarball not available through github https://git.io/Jf3IB

20:55:35  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] matthijskooijman commented on issue #111: Versioned source tarball not available through github https://git.io/Jf3IB

21:01:24  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro commented on issue #111: Versioned source tarball not available through github https://git.io/Jf3IB

21:01:30  <LordAro> TrueBrain: ^ thoughts?

21:02:50  <TrueBrain> it is indeed normal to build the pip tarballs on the linux machine

21:02:52  <TrueBrain> why can't you?

21:03:25  <LordAro> because the action i'm using to build the manylinux-compatible wheels doesn't really allow for it

21:03:32  <LordAro> well it does, but it'd be a pain

21:03:36  <TrueBrain> ps: maybe split the workflows over the different OSes, instead in a single one with all of them "if" statements for OSes :P

21:03:46  <LordAro> mm, maybe

21:03:48  <TrueBrain> ah .. that is silly of that action

21:03:55  <TrueBrain> so pick the OSX indeed :P

21:04:04  <TrueBrain> or make a job specific for tarball

21:04:06  <TrueBrain> also pretty common

21:04:34  <andythenorth> it's Friday!

21:04:38  <TrueBrain> what is build for OSX btw? I only see it pip install something, and that is it

21:04:40  * andythenorth has lost sanity this week

21:05:16  <LordAro> TrueBrain: ! startsWith(...ubuntu..)

21:05:21  <TrueBrain> ugh

21:05:24  <TrueBrain> as said, hard to read :D

21:05:31  <LordAro> indeed

21:05:39  <LordAro> i'll see what i can do about splitting them up

21:05:48  <LordAro> though i'd have to duplicate the caching stuff, which is sad

21:06:09  <TrueBrain> caching stuff is per OS anyway

21:06:11  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] matthijskooijman commented on issue #111: Versioned source tarball not available through github https://git.io/Jf3IB

21:10:38  <andythenorth> right what has OS X done wrong now?

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21:21:24  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] matthijskooijman opened issue #112: setup.py overwrites nml/__version__.py https://git.io/Jf3Lj

21:21:34  <andythenorth> not sure what to do with nml now

21:21:43  <andythenorth> it's broken in prod

21:21:58  <andythenorth> I merged the fix, but now that's blocked on debate

21:22:01  <andythenorth> so can't release

21:22:26  <LordAro> it's no more broken that the current release is

21:22:31  <LordAro> i wouldn't say that's blocking

21:22:46  <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/pull/110#issuecomment-620169614

21:22:55  <andythenorth> author of PR thinks it shouldn't be there

21:23:08  * andythenorth confused emoji

21:23:21  <LordAro> well, revert it then

21:23:33  <andythenorth> that is one solution yes

21:24:08  <LordAro> clearly someone needs to nail down a) what NRT should do b) what NRT does c) what NML thinks NRT does and d) resolve the 3

21:24:15  <glx> main issue is version doesn't use __version__.py at all

21:25:14  <LordAro> glx: you can fix that one :)

21:25:32  <glx> there's dead code also (hg stuff ;) )

21:26:13  <andythenorth> currently of the 3 main NRT participants, peter has sad quit, Wolf has no further opinion, and I am confused

21:26:25  <andythenorth> good outcome, classic major OpenTTD change :)

21:27:50  <andythenorth> afaict the issue resolves to: are labels pooled or not?

21:29:27  <frosch123> andythenorth: the maximum limit of types is an arbirtrary number

21:29:37  <michi_cc> That depends on where you ask. OpenTTD and the specs published on some wiki disagree, the mythical somebody has to decide which is right.

21:29:48  <frosch123> it's shared accross all grfs, so what's the point in discussing the limit for a single grf?

21:30:22  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] matthijskooijman commented on issue #111: Versioned source tarball not available through github https://git.io/Jf3IB

21:30:26  <frosch123> 64 types is hard for ottd to achieve, either 63, or 127 :p

21:30:29  <frosch123> and noone wants 127

21:31:06  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro opened pull request #113: Rewrite release workflow https://git.io/Jf3tn

21:31:12  <frosch123> i don't know the memes that well, so i don't know whether 63 vs 64 is bike-shedding or yak-shaving

21:31:35  <frosch123> if you want to fix nrt in ottd, fix the bridge catenary, or the ai support

21:31:45  <frosch123> but don't bother with 63/64 :)

21:33:51  <andythenorth> I thought the 63 vs 64 was a non issue?

21:33:52  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 commented on issue #111: Versioned source tarball not available through github https://git.io/Jf3IB

21:33:54  <andythenorth> it's 63

21:34:13  <andythenorth> I thought the issue was whether labels for Roadtype and Tramtype can collide or not?

21:34:51  <andythenorth> FLHerne hi hi

21:34:59  <frosch123> that's a different issue than 110

21:35:03  <andythenorth> yes

21:35:15  <andythenorth> I only have confusion currently, but I'm not sure the confusion is valid

21:35:41  <andythenorth> 63 is the actual spec and what's implemented, the wiki has 'alternative facts'

21:35:51  <andythenorth> I know why and how that happened

21:36:24  <frosch123> now ottd, wiki and nml are consistent, why do you care more?

21:37:16  <frosch123> there is nothing more to achieve for an arbitrary number, except consistency

21:37:37  <andythenorth> mostly because I don't want to shed any more contributors over this

21:37:51  <andythenorth> we 1 down already

21:38:07  <frosch123> it's over a year ago

21:38:15  <frosch123> everyone should have made their mind up by now

21:38:22  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] matthijskooijman commented on pull request #113: Rewrite release workflow https://git.io/Jf3t0

21:40:23  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro commented on pull request #113: Rewrite release workflow https://git.io/Jf3ta

21:40:41  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro commented on pull request #113: Rewrite release workflow https://git.io/Jf3tV

21:42:05  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 commented on pull request #113: Rewrite release workflow https://git.io/Jf3tK

21:43:40  <LordAro> glx: i'm happy to merge #108 into #113 if you like

21:44:02  <glx> makes sense to merge them

21:44:21  <LordAro> glx: can you make sure there's a correct GITHUB_TOKEN secret?

21:44:28  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] matthijskooijman commented on pull request #113: Rewrite release workflow https://git.io/Jf3tP

21:44:38  <glx> it's generated by github action

21:44:54  <glx> as long as the run doesn't take longer than 1h it's valid

21:45:00  <LordAro> ah right

21:45:26  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] matthijskooijman approved pull request #108: Codechange: [Actions] Upload standalone executable to GitHub release https://git.io/Jf3ty

21:46:09  <FLHerne> andythenorth: I think the spec'd behaviour as implemented by #110 is much nicer

21:46:51  <FLHerne> I just think it was a bit hasty to push it without discussing with Peter why he implemented it differently

21:47:02  <FLHerne> And how practical it would be to change that

21:47:11  <FLHerne> s/implemented by/assumed by/

21:47:32  <Samu> what happened to peter?

21:47:59  <glx> hmm just to test I ran "pip install nml", and I can't run nmlc

21:48:05  <glx> (on windows)

21:48:40  <andythenorth> FWIW, I think the solution for nml in 110 is the only viable one currently

21:48:44  <LordAro> did it put it somewhere not on PATH?

21:48:44  <FLHerne> andythenorth: In any case, #110 is no more wrong than the current behaviour

21:48:46  <andythenorth> and authors will just need to take care

21:49:02  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] matthijskooijman commented on issue #111: Versioned source tarball not available through github https://git.io/Jf3IB

21:49:05  <FLHerne> andythenorth: It allows the user to be wrong, rather than preventing the user from being right

21:49:11  <glx> File "C:\Users\Loïc\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python37\Scripts\nmlc-script.py", line 1

21:49:11  <glx> SyntaxError: Non-UTF-8 code starting with '\xef' in file C:\Users\Loïc\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python37\Scripts\nmlc-script.py on line 1, but no encoding declared; see http://python.org/dev/peps/pep-0263/ for details

21:49:16  <glx> it's in path

21:49:22  <glx> it just doesn't work

21:49:27  <FLHerne> (where 'wrong' is "matches the limits in OTTD")

21:50:33  <TrueBrain> glx: your path is the issue :) This happens with some versions of pip

21:50:55  <TrueBrain> your have to change the shebang before it works

21:51:00  <FLHerne> Er, *doesn't* match

21:51:03  <TrueBrain> check other files in Scripts to see to what, at least, on linux :)

21:52:40  <glx> but with "pip install -e ." it works

21:53:53  <LordAro> glx: oh heavens

21:54:05  <LordAro> \xef, is that a UTF8 BOM?

21:55:20  <TrueBrain> glx: so compare the files :)

21:55:38  <TrueBrain> for me it happens that the shebang is wrong because I have a space in my path

21:55:40  <TrueBrain> and weird shit happens

21:55:45  <TrueBrain> pip install mostly goes wrong, not always

21:55:55  <TrueBrain> haven't pinned down when exactly it does one thing or the other :P

21:55:58  <TrueBrain> pip is cute

21:56:13  <LordAro> there's no nmlc-script.py in the repo, must be generated by something

21:56:28  <andythenorth> reddit has been busy :) https://i.redd.it/p128gy5mf4w41.png

21:56:31  <LordAro> nor does \xef appear anywhere in the source

21:56:35  <TrueBrain> everything in Script / bin folder is generated LordAro

21:57:09  <andythenorth> also this was really nice :) https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=86978

21:58:00  <glx> oh \xef is ï IIRC

22:06:09  <blathijs> Hm, should have joined into the discussion here too :-)

22:06:43  <blathijs> Seems that CRLF line endings have another problem on Linux: The kernel does not like "python3\r" as an interpreter from the shebang :-p

22:06:53  * blathijs adds another workaround trying to get his .deb to build

22:07:28  <LordAro> blathijs: i've run into that one before now :)

22:08:43  <blathijs> Seems to work now, though. If it workaroudn all the newlines and the __version__.py overwriting, it builds (of course I now realize I should just have repacked the 0.5.0 tarball with fixed newlines and use that, rather than importing the broken one and working around it, but well).

22:10:34  <glx> oh I see with "-e ." there's a "-x" added at the end of the shebang line

22:10:53  <blathijs> Gotta run now. I'll be away most of tomorrow, but I'll try to check GH, just in case there is some progress and maybe a tarball to do a preflight run with? :-)

22:11:04  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro updated pull request #113: Rewrite release workflow https://git.io/Jf3tn

22:11:31  <blathijs> Thanks all for jumping on this :-D

22:11:59  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro commented on pull request #108: Codechange: [Actions] Upload standalone executable to GitHub release https://git.io/Jf3qX

22:11:59  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro closed pull request #108: Codechange: [Actions] Upload standalone executable to GitHub release https://git.io/JfqJv

22:12:14  <LordAro> glx: ok, now it's completely untested :)

22:14:00  <glx> well #108 worked for me when I tried in my fork

22:15:29  <LordAro> i'm trying your method of a test commit to remove the twine calls

22:17:36  <glx> I can try it on my fork too

22:17:46  <LordAro> https://github.com/LordAro/nml/releases/tag/0.5.1-RC2

22:17:47  <LordAro> seems to work

22:17:54  <LordAro> though i think your version stuff might be broken

22:18:19  <glx> hmm it's supposed to use the tag

22:18:29  <LordAro> oh, it's named the source badly

22:18:33  <LordAro> that's easily fixed

22:20:42  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro updated pull request #113: Rewrite release workflow https://git.io/Jf3tn

22:22:32  <LordAro> glx: `python nml/version_info.py` definitely seems to work when the tag is directly checked out

22:22:43  <LordAro> is this the same issue OTTD had - it's the commit that's checked out, not the tag?

22:23:04  <glx> ah maybe

22:24:55  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] TrueBrain approved pull request #113: Rewrite release workflow https://git.io/Jf3mv

22:26:29  <TrueBrain> You have to fetch the tags separately if you need them

22:26:40  <TrueBrain> Default checkouts only checkout HEAD

22:27:17  <TrueBrain> See website workflows to see how; I made a helper for that

22:27:35  <TrueBrain> Or any other repo, for that matter

22:28:05  <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/bananas-api/blob/master/.github/workflows/publish.yml#L29

22:28:08  <TrueBrain> As example

22:28:50  <TrueBrain> I love checkouts with depth=0 .. it is quick :)

22:28:51  <LordAro> i'm looking at the docs - it looks like GITHUB_REF would be enough?

22:29:08  <LordAro> https://help.github.com/en/actions/reference/events-that-trigger-workflows#release-event-release

22:29:18  <TrueBrain> We use 'got desribe' in nml right?

22:29:28  <TrueBrain> So no, git needs more than a ref in that case

22:29:31  <LordAro> + https://github.com/actions/checkout#checkout-pull-request-head-commit-instead-of-merge-commit

22:29:32  <TrueBrain> See my URL

22:29:49  <glx> yes git describe is used now so action variables are no help :)

22:30:11  <LordAro> have you read the docs?

22:30:20  <LordAro> on the release event, GITHUB_REF is the tag of the release

22:30:31  <LordAro> why is that not enough?

22:30:58  <glx> nml version is determined via "git describe"

22:31:27  <glx> so internally it will be wrong too

22:31:28  <LordAro> yes, so use GITHUB_REF as the ref parameter of the actions/checkout stage

22:31:49  <TrueBrain> Have you read anything I wrote? (What a lame thing to say btw :p). It -might- work if you pull refs/tags/NNN, but how things normally work is that you get the hash-ref, not the tag-ref. Try it out

22:31:49  <LordAro> i'm not saying use it to determine the name of things

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22:32:18  <TrueBrain> Just know git describe is annoying ;)

22:33:11  <TrueBrain> So we have two conversations, great :p

22:34:41  <frosch123> TrueBrain: ah, right, i had this thing to discuss with you :)

22:34:53  <TrueBrain> Shall I run now? :p

22:35:39  <frosch123> :)

22:38:02  <TrueBrain> I like that he clearly forgot already :p

22:40:01  <LordAro> ok, as it turns out, TrueBrain is correct

22:40:08  <LordAro> surprise surprise

22:40:25  <LordAro> i still maintain that those docs suggest that you should get the actual tag

22:40:41  <TrueBrain> Was that sarcastic? :p

22:40:55  <LordAro> only the 2nd line :p

22:41:09  <TrueBrain> Don't get me wrong, I am totally fine with you finding these things out yourself :)

22:41:48  <TrueBrain> Own experience is best :) (and I mean this honestly)

22:41:59  <LordAro> it wasn't my intention for "have you read the docs?" to be quite so confrontational though, so that's my bad

22:42:00  <glx> the doc has https://github.com/actions/checkout#fetch-all-tags ;)

22:42:15  * TrueBrain hugs LordAro

22:42:28  <glx> but yeah actions can be a pain for "simple" things

22:42:54  <TrueBrain> glx : that is what openttd-actions does ;)

22:43:03  <TrueBrain> I wrapped it in a nice action

22:43:28  <glx> yeah and we needed workarounds for commit-checker too

22:43:49  <LordAro> oh i see, and just fetching the tags is enough for git describe to work out what the commit is actually pointing to?

22:44:03  <LordAro> i'd have thought you'd have to check the tag out explicitly

22:44:08  <TrueBrain> It needs only the first tag in the tree

22:44:44  <LordAro> we (nml) don't need the dispatch stuff, do we?

22:44:44  <glx> hmm but a merge commit can be wrong in our case

22:44:49  <TrueBrain> But I cannot remember if that was possible in git

22:45:20  <glx> tag will be correct, but I use == 0 to determine if it's a release or not ie exact tag

22:45:31  <TrueBrain> LordAro : unlikely. Only if you want to rebuild.. don't think that is useful

22:46:25  <glx> so I think we need to use both HEAD stuff, and openttd action to get the tags

22:46:34  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #113: Rewrite release workflow https://git.io/Jf3mv

22:46:34  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro updated pull request #113: Rewrite release workflow https://git.io/Jf3tn

22:46:43  <TrueBrain> It is what we settled in with 'website'

22:46:55  <TrueBrain> All I remember that was a bitch to figure out :p

22:47:00  <TrueBrain> It is a blur otherwise

22:47:29  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] TrueBrain approved pull request #113: Rewrite release workflow https://git.io/Jf3m2

22:48:39  <LordAro> fake-0.5.1-RC4 coming up...

22:48:49  <TrueBrain> :D

22:50:31  <glx> hmm still wrong it seems

22:50:38  <TrueBrain> :(

22:51:03  <LordAro> :/

22:51:12  <TrueBrain> What is wrong exactly?

22:52:45  <LordAro> checking out the tags didn't seem to help

22:52:59  <LordAro> still getting a version of 0.5.1.post0.dev20200501+0

22:53:25  <TrueBrain> What is that +0?

22:54:09  <LordAro> invented for pypi compatibility, just the nth commit of the day

22:54:12  <LordAro> or something like that

22:54:18  <TrueBrain> Anyway, clearly it did pick up the tag

22:54:24  <glx> theorically changeset

22:54:37  <LordAro> hang on

22:54:39  <glx> but it should not enter in this section

22:54:42  <LordAro> $ python nml/version_info.py

22:54:42  <LordAro> 0;master;0.5.1;False;False;2020-05-01;0.5.1.post0.dev20200501+0

22:55:04  <glx> yes it doesn't detect the "release" state

22:55:04  <LordAro> is what i'm getting locally (after having checked out refs/tags/0.5.1-RC4 and fetching the tags)

22:55:28  <TrueBrain> Sounds like a Python issue :p

22:55:39  <LordAro> yeah :D

22:55:44  * LordAro shoves it in glx's direction

22:55:49  <TrueBrain> Hahaha

22:55:50  <glx> what says "git describe --tags --long" ?

22:55:52  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro merged pull request #113: Rewrite release workflow https://git.io/Jf3tn

22:55:53  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro closed issue #111: Versioned source tarball not available through github https://git.io/Jf3IB

22:55:58  * LordAro and runs away

22:56:07  <TrueBrain> Hahahaha, how evil

22:56:15  <LordAro> 0.5.1-RC4-0-gfdb82f2

22:56:28  <glx> ok I know what's wrong

22:56:32  <TrueBrain> Guess the - is an issue? :p

22:56:33  <LordAro> is it --long ?

22:56:42  <glx> it's -RC1 ;)

22:56:46  <TrueBrain> Hahaha

22:56:47  <LordAro> haha

22:56:51  <TrueBrain> Predictable :D

22:57:01  <TrueBrain> We made the same mistakes with OpenTTD

22:57:16  <TrueBrain> It is impossible to remember all those quirks

22:57:16  <LordAro> so if i'd stuck with my old fake tags of 0.5.0alpha1, it would've been fine? :p

22:57:27  <TrueBrain> Hours ago

22:57:53  <glx> LordAro: yes, but we would not have noticed this bug :)

22:58:03  <LordAro> TrueBrain: but at least the checkout is faster now :p

22:58:18  <TrueBrain> Fuck yeah

22:58:32  <glx> so I have a bug to fix now

22:59:47  <TrueBrain> At least you can release 0.6.1 or whatever safely

22:59:57  <glx> true

23:00:16  <andythenorth> we should

23:00:30  <LordAro> do it andythenorth

23:00:45  <LordAro> although maybe #112 needs resolving first?

23:00:53  <TrueBrain> So after all it is frosch123 that ran away .. interesting :D

23:08:10  <blathijs> Yay for resolving #112 too, pretty please? :-)

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23:23:18  <Samu> when is this coming back? https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects

23:27:38  *** Samu has quit IRC

23:34:40  <andythenorth> will it come back before or after samu? :P

23:34:47  <andythenorth> is it bedtime?

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