IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-04-29
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00:44:29 <LordAro> samu likes (often useless) exhaustive testing
00:45:50 <Yexo> I´m happy he tests for memory instead of blindly optimizing for ticks and pushing a change that causes problems for many users with less memory than he has
00:46:26 <LordAro> blindly optimising for <irrelevant thing> is samu 101, really
00:46:32 <LordAro> we mostly just let him get on with it
00:47:00 <Yexo> Sounds good. As long as he´s happy doing that, it´s all fine
00:47:33 <Yexo> Did anything ever happen with using squirrel to generate (height)maps?
00:48:33 <LordAro> even the extended heightmaps never really got anywhere
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10:09:25 <andythenorth> another day, another SEO meta description
10:25:09 <planetmaker> hm, in an attempt to answer frosch's earlier question on assigning accounts for NewGRFs, and if openttdcoop is not an option as it seems (it has no separate github account and does not make sense in this structure): yes, OpenGFX* probably should go to me; but some other should also get upload rights...
10:25:49 <planetmaker> The idea of the shared coop account was - after all - easier access to updating a NewGRF in case of a bus factor striking home
10:26:31 <planetmaker> I'm pretty sure, that Ammler has no github account
10:27:02 <andythenorth> specific to OpenGFX base set, an OpenTTD GH team should take that over
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14:43:27 <Wolf01> Is waiting for things to work out themselves
15:32:49 <Samu> i found 2 more priority queues
15:33:02 <Samu> "terron priority queue" properly named
15:33:08 <Samu> "fifo queue" of kraken ai
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15:48:22 <Samu> trAIns has a weird one, gotta explore that
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16:42:27 <supermop_Home> why do i keep disconnecting... i'm not losing my connection to my remote computer at work...
16:55:04 <LordAro> TCP (i.e. persistent IRC connections) is more susceptible to drop outs than other protocols (like RDP/UDP)
17:26:29 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
17:35:01 <Eddi|zuHause> some clients, especially on phones, have trouble keeping connections alive when in the background
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17:45:50 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o planetmaker
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18:22:20 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o planetmaker
18:50:54 <TrueBrain> right, time to login to those VPSes, and see what they have on them .. before they expire :P
18:53:24 <TrueBrain> it really only has nginx + mirror files
18:54:05 <TrueBrain> and no more traffic; good
18:54:14 <TrueBrain> orudge: we can let the VPSes die, no problem :) We should be fine :)
18:57:13 <andythenorth> servers -> VPSes -> cloud -> nirvana
18:57:21 <andythenorth> next we all upload ourselves
18:57:27 <TrueBrain> 20 dollar a day .. yeah .. we need to do something about that .. some day
18:58:07 <andythenorth> 10€ / month download pass
18:58:11 <andythenorth> early access fee
18:58:37 <TrueBrain> I just need to email CloudFlare :) Something to do this weekend :)
18:58:51 <TrueBrain> see if they accept us on only binaries (normally you have to move everything to them or nothing)
18:59:09 <TrueBrain> cache rate is between 40% and 100% on BaNaNaS files .. they are being cached nicely on the edge
18:59:16 <TrueBrain> people should notice that in terms of download speed
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19:00:11 <TrueBrain> most traffic is EU based
19:07:01 <milek7> that should be enough for two weeks
19:10:07 <andythenorth> two weeks of what?
19:10:16 <andythenorth> I spend maybe £400 / day on hosting
19:10:23 <andythenorth> in a tiny business
19:12:48 <TrueBrain> pretty happy with the new setup .. very low on maintaince :)
19:13:08 <TrueBrain> only have to script to build a new docker once a while, to keep up with CVE automagically :)
19:13:15 <TrueBrain> reminds me, OpenGFX nightly has been broken for a while
19:13:21 <TrueBrain> Docker image is out of date :P
19:16:32 <TrueBrain> euh, GitHub Actions OS apt-database is out of date :P
19:17:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] TrueBrain opened pull request #40: Fix: [GitHub Actions] make sure apt-database is in sync https://git.io/JfYuG
19:17:51 * andythenorth triggered by a CSS blog article :)
19:17:58 <andythenorth> oops I shouldn't post my bad behaviour here
19:19:09 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] TrueBrain updated pull request #40: Fix: [GitHub Actions] make sure apt-database is in sync https://git.io/JfYuG
19:19:16 <spnda> I just got VS 2019 and when building OpenTTD, I get an error that 'ft2build.h' can't be found. Anyone know of this issue? (This project worked fine with VS 2017)
19:19:39 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] LordAro approved pull request #40: Fix: [GitHub Actions] make sure apt-database is in sync https://git.io/JfYuW
19:20:01 <TrueBrain> seems freetype2 .. (re)installed it with vcpkg?
19:20:08 <TrueBrain> owh wait, we don't have cmake merged yet
19:21:45 <frosch123> TrueBrain: want to address the TODO 3 lines below your change?
19:22:46 <TrueBrain> want to want to ..... but I did anyway
19:22:47 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] TrueBrain dismissed a review for pull request #40: Fix: [GitHub Actions] make sure apt-database is in sync https://git.io/JfYuW
19:22:47 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] TrueBrain updated pull request #40: Fix: [GitHub Actions] make sure apt-database is in sync https://git.io/JfYuG
19:22:51 <TrueBrain> just because I like you enough to put in that effort :)
19:24:07 <frosch123> when did debian switch to python linking to python3?
19:24:19 <frosch123> on stable it still refers to python2
19:24:46 <LordAro> only very recently, i would think
19:25:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] LordAro approved pull request #40: Fix: [GitHub Actions] make sure apt-database is in sync https://git.io/JfYua
19:25:18 <TrueBrain> Buster still comes with 2.7
19:25:27 <TrueBrain> but their own scripts have been ported to 3 for a while now
19:25:32 <TrueBrain> haven't used 2 in a long time :P
19:26:02 <LordAro> arch has had python -> python3 for years
19:26:11 <LordAro> i imagine things will start switching over now that py2 is dead
19:26:21 <TrueBrain> people should start burning python2 ..
19:27:38 <TrueBrain> but also scripts only working pre-3.6 should be burnt
19:28:37 <frosch123> what do scripts do when they only work < 3.6 ?
19:28:43 <LordAro> py3.5 is supported until September, alas
19:28:44 <frosch123> sounds like there is a standard issue :)
19:29:33 <spnda> oh i just opened the wrong vs project... works fine
19:30:40 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] TrueBrain merged pull request #40: Fix: [GitHub Actions] make sure apt-database is in sync https://git.io/JfYuG
19:30:51 <TrueBrain> k, that fixes OpenGFX again ..
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19:38:51 <spnda> Does OpenGFX really include that famous graphics teapot? (SpriteID 4696)
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19:51:15 <spnda> oh so it's a house in toyland? interesting.
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20:09:09 <andythenorth> anyone else getting Mailgun smtp failures?
20:09:12 * andythenorth asking for a friend :P
20:23:44 <andythenorth> one of our products, several thousand-ish failed deliveries
20:23:51 <andythenorth> we didn't change anything our end
20:24:30 <andythenorth> specifically " 501 Invalid command or cannot parse from address (in reply to MAIL FROM command))"
20:24:43 <andythenorth> happening since Monday
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20:55:40 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 opened issue #55: Add support for adding public keys to packages https://git.io/JfYVq
21:15:49 <frosch123> wow, someone forked manual industries to create an industry set with new cargos and complex chains
21:16:12 <frosch123> i wonder what's the use of manual indusries in that
21:20:25 <frosch123> 11% of packages has a github owner :)
21:22:39 <frosch123> i think that's about half of the requests i expect
21:22:52 <frosch123> rest is old and probably unmaintained
21:24:14 <_dp_> frosch123, probably as a nice starting point for an industry set without new graphics
21:24:28 <TrueBrain> and the last one we get in 2030 :)
21:32:35 <Samu> fifo queue is nothing I expected
21:32:52 <nielsm> yes fifo means first in first out
21:32:57 <nielsm> that's specifically not a priority queue
21:38:56 <andythenorth> hmm could we score down unmaintained grfs? o_O
21:39:11 <andythenorth> I closed that "Bananas is full of crappy junk" ticket as unhelpfu
21:39:29 <LordAro> there are definitely a few things that would benefit from being made "savegame only"
21:39:35 <andythenorth> maybe we should editorialise
21:39:48 <nielsm> LordAro: or have their max version set
21:40:22 <nielsm> make a best-effort attempt to contact the authors first obviously
21:40:49 <frosch123> andythenorth: don't take that report literally
21:41:48 <frosch123> at best i would interpret it as "various AIs crash", or it's just "newgrf are complciated to setup, you cannot add 50 vehicle sets at once for a balances game"
21:42:26 <nielsm> true that's one possibility
21:42:37 <nielsm> ottd is not like cities:skylines where more mods = better
21:42:44 <LordAro> several AIs are basically abandoned and regularly crash
21:42:51 <frosch123> i think crashing ais are the only thing that can be objective classified as junk
21:42:54 <LordAro> without any way to filter them, it does reflect quite badly
21:43:13 <frosch123> or scenarios with depend on non-bananas grfs :)
21:43:50 <nielsm> I had a dream a few days ago about making an automated testing for bananas content
21:44:02 <nielsm> probably not healthy to delve into
21:44:21 <LordAro> we need more automated testing for OTTD first :p
21:44:22 <frosch123> wasn't there an automated ai-vs-ai page?
21:44:29 <LordAro> frosch123: i think that was just Samu
21:44:45 <nielsm> no that's someone else
21:46:08 <andythenorth> frosch123 I interpreted it same as you
21:46:17 <frosch123> haha, "medieval ai" is on that list
21:47:10 <nielsm> IdleMore does not have zero points
21:47:13 <nielsm> it has actually won games
21:47:23 <LordAro> presumably by not crashing
21:47:27 <nielsm> IdleMoreMore is even better
21:47:38 <frosch123> medieval ai is the oldest ai on bananas (oldest latest version). even wright ai has a nwer update
21:48:10 <LordAro> the original Idle AI is definitely a strong contender to be removed from the list
21:48:20 <LordAro> as it doesn't even have the "no random" flag set, iirc
21:48:55 <LordAro> nielsm: that site is giving me a lot of 500 errors
21:49:25 <nielsm> yeah it seems to have some bugs
21:51:29 <frosch123> LordAro: aroai performs worse than wrightai :p
21:53:17 <TrueBrain> but wrightAI is the best name ever, it is flawless code, and it was the first. So .. of course it is the best
22:11:34 <_dp_> oh wow, and it actually parses a lot
22:11:50 <_dp_> wish it existed when I was making my own xD
22:12:51 <Samu> whoever coded trAIns was a master programmer
22:12:59 <Samu> i can't understand 1/4 of it
22:14:00 <Samu> it has a queue, two level hash heap implemented in it, I just don't understand it
22:14:15 <Samu> it's different than all other queues, not compatible
22:16:22 <Samu> does it mean it's the fastest out there? I really wanted to try it, but don't know how
22:25:22 <andythenorth> any tickets I can close?
22:25:27 * andythenorth is looking for relaxation
22:27:09 <andythenorth> they have to actually be valid for closing :|
22:29:57 <nielsm> I'm quite sure that's a "working as intended"
22:31:50 <andythenorth> 8098 all I have is 'shrug'
22:32:00 <andythenorth> I don't see how to guarantee that a transfer leg will be positive
22:32:07 <andythenorth> it seems to start from the wrong premise?
22:32:36 <nielsm> yeah, a transfer leg can actually contribute negative value to the route
22:32:44 <nielsm> that's not wrong if you think about it
22:33:27 <andythenorth> close with the usual 'Thanks for contributing!' thing?
22:33:33 <andythenorth> I don't see it getting changed
22:34:37 <andythenorth> 8092 was there some blah blah about nobody was reading translators emails?
22:34:52 <andythenorth> I didn't really understand and it seemed to cause friction so I ignored it
22:35:21 * andythenorth might be smoking crack, not sure
22:35:32 <nielsm> I do remember seeing a convo like that
22:35:53 <nielsm> and possibly some conclusion about it moving to new infra "soon" so not worth spending time on new signups
22:36:35 <TrueBrain> lots of new uploads frosch123 , relative against normal days :P
22:38:04 <nielsm> yeah I think it might be better to have the installer warn on anything earlier than win7
22:38:56 <nielsm> "look nobody wants to test on your prehistoric system, if it crashes or spills coffee on your new shirt we don't want to hear about it"
22:40:04 <frosch123> TrueBrain: didn't we conclude yesterday that we average 35 upload/month
22:40:25 <frosch123> so, more than 1 per day on average, but with high variety
22:41:20 <TrueBrain> might be the case, but we had no uploads for the last week, and now several
22:41:23 <nielsm> andythenorth nah I think it's valid to want the fullscreen mode to work
22:41:28 <TrueBrain> so it makes me happy to see people udnerstand the system and can use it :D
22:41:32 <nielsm> otherwise the fullscreen mode should be removed entirely
22:42:08 <frosch123> TrueBrain: true, hardly any complains :)
22:48:44 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #8038: Fullscreen mode in MacOSX is almost unusable https://git.io/Jv1n7
22:52:25 <glx> and there's still the 10.12 crash to fix
22:54:05 <nielsm> will someone have to install 10.12 to develop at fix for that?
22:56:32 <glx> or guess fix and a PR build so the users can test
22:58:51 <glx> because it may be a mix of old OS and newer toolkits
23:02:20 <andythenorth> hmm a few of these issues have PRs that would close thme
23:02:37 <nielsm> well time to get some sleep
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