⏴ go to previous day
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04:18:29  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] floodious commented on pull request #8032: Fix #7904: Don't use a timer for hundredth tick determination https://git.io/JvxLt

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08:27:13  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8063: Fix #8055: Always allow building any available roadtypes, even if there are no road vehicles available https://git.io/Jvx3E

08:30:32  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8047: Add: Buttons to select script profile in the AI/GS configuration window https://git.io/Jvx3g

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09:24:42  <andythenorth> moin

09:25:00  <peter1138> Yes?

09:35:32  <Samu> hi

09:47:27  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8047: Add: Buttons to select script profile in the AI/GS configuration window https://git.io/JvxGM

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11:46:11  <Samu> another visual studio update, seriously microsoft, it's getting annoying

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12:00:33  <andythenorth> at least you're not on a mac

12:00:44  <andythenorth> the update experience is truly frigging awful

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12:09:41  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7193: Fix #6468: Load correct version of AI as specified during the time of its save. https://git.io/Jvxls

12:13:04  <Samu> hmm yeah, that savegame version loading can get confusing

12:13:14  <andythenorth> at least my mac keys work on this model

12:13:21  <andythenorth> it's horribly horribly slow computer though

12:32:50  <peter1138> My tablet is updating... 22%.

12:33:13  <peter1138> It's a 32bit Windows tablet with 1GB RAM, so... taking its time.

12:38:58  <LordAro> peter1138: proably come back tomorrow

12:45:00  <Samu> ship depot is ruining the pathfinder :(

12:46:32  <Samu> https://i.imgur.com/P3urR3P.png - bad pathfinder, bad

12:48:16  <andythenorth> so Kamnet asked me if we would consider increasing ship max speed

12:48:31  <andythenorth> anyone got a patch for that? o_O

12:48:38  <andythenorth> I assume it's ekranoplans again

12:50:10  <_dp_> transport type that can only be used with a "no crash" cheat? xD

12:51:17  <Samu> how to detect whether it's possible to connect a tile to another with water, without actually having water on the tiles yet

12:51:41  <Samu> the api is missing something...

12:53:55  <Samu> who would have thought, that i was going to be the ship depot to ruin my day

12:58:09  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8047: Add: Buttons to select script profile in the AI/GS configuration window https://git.io/Jvx4e

13:09:29  <Samu> https://i.imgur.com/UhTkhH0.png

13:09:33  <Samu> not quite what I wanted

13:09:40  <Samu> it avoids the depot completely

13:13:10  <Samu> if the depot is the only passage, which it quite often is when speaking of canals

13:13:29  <Samu> it's going to fail many paths

13:13:34  <Samu> must think

13:15:41  <Samu> AreWaterTilesConnected is useless in this case

13:15:50  <peter1138> LordAro, just finished ;)

13:15:52  <Samu> there is no water nearby

13:15:57  <Samu> in planning mode

13:16:22  <peter1138> andythenorth, I do actually have a patch for it.

13:18:48  <peter1138> And tablet just finished logging in...

13:18:59  <andythenorth> coding on tablet? o_O

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13:40:13  <andythenorth> hmm

13:40:27  <andythenorth> I reckon I could layer a whole extra chain into FIRS Steeltown https://firs-test-1.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/firs-v4-previews/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown

13:40:59  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] msikma commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS https://git.io/fjii3

13:41:00  <andythenorth> https://geardiary.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Jeff-Goldblum-GIF.gif

14:01:57  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] bfut opened issue #8068: Streetcar track removal fails when bank balance negative https://git.io/JvxRZ

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14:25:58  <LordAro> oh matrix

14:26:01  <LordAro> u so silly

14:27:03  <peter1138> Salad time!

14:28:26  <andythenorth> yum

14:28:28  <peter1138> And, more Windows updates!

14:29:12  <peter1138> Damn, all these breweries offering online ordering and delivery of beer... but the beer is about 2-3x the price of normal beer :(

14:30:06  <LordAro> peter1138: there's a rumour that a landlord friend of mine is selling beer for £7.50 for 4 pints

14:30:10  <LordAro> i should ask him about that

14:30:31  <peter1138> That is... a lot but still less.

14:31:06  <LordAro> it's a lot less than i'd pay for 4 pints normally

14:31:17  <peter1138> In a pub, for sure.

14:32:43  <peter1138> 8 3/4 pints for £23

14:32:43  <LordAro> true

14:32:44  <peter1138> Hmm

14:33:19  <peter1138> So 5 litres, heh

14:33:52  <peter1138> Which has to be drunk in 4 days.

14:33:57  <peter1138> Doable but kinda excessive.

14:34:02  <LordAro> a little

14:34:51  <peter1138> Special coupon to remove the £10 delivery charge, that's good I suppose.

14:35:06  <peter1138> Plus a combo offer, so 10 litres of beer for £41.

14:35:15  <LordAro> where are you ordering from, ooi?

14:35:44  <peter1138> Looking at my local in this instance, https://chilternbrewery.co.uk/

14:42:21  <peter1138> Damn, this Trek "protein" nut bar (so it's just a nut bar and full of fat so they had to call it protein to make it sell more) is very salty.

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14:42:26  <peter1138> Oh!

14:42:43  <peter1138> "Dark chocolate and sea salt" Yes, that would do it

14:43:05  <peter1138> Problem with salted nuts if you always want more, of course.

14:43:12  <peter1138> s/if/is/

14:44:04  <LordAro> that does sound nice

14:44:22  <LordAro> wait, you're no longer talking about beer

14:46:02  <rotterdxm> look beer and salted nuts go hand in hand (but not these days i guess)

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14:49:44  <peter1138> Heh

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15:17:12  <supermop_Home> hello

15:17:56  <peter1138> Another Facebook ad... 12 bottles for £30 o_O

15:18:14  <supermop_Home> beer or wine

15:18:20  <peter1138> Beer. 500ml.

15:18:38  <peter1138> That would be cheap for wine, yeah.

15:25:23  <supermop_Home> almost out of beer here

15:25:59  <supermop_Home> plenty of wine though

15:26:15  <supermop_Home> low on whiskey

15:26:27  <supermop_Home> and whisky

15:30:23  <peter1138> I've got plenty of whisky... meant to be gifts, but might not be ;D

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15:36:47  <supermop_Home> I had a nice box of some special glenmorainge in my emergency gift stcokpile

15:37:08  <supermop_Home> but that got raided last weeek

15:47:51  <peter1138> Presumably you still have some left...

15:54:55  <rotterdxm> supermop_Home, i was thinking about doing some work on your Docklands set. have 1.0 source code from the forum thread, but that´s not the most recent one. do you still have source for 1.01?

15:55:25  <rotterdxm> i´m using the cobblestone for the mediterranean building set and would like to expand on those a bit more

16:00:50  <supermop_Home> oh hmm I probably have it on an external hdd?

16:00:57  <supermop_Home> i can look for it

16:01:17  <supermop_Home> you want the psd files?

16:02:15  <supermop_Home> apparently i need to lose my cargo ageing code that i added to simulate jam packed standing room trams

16:03:04  <supermop_Home> i wonder if i could still add loading speed that changes based on load amount

16:03:46  <supermop_Home> i don't do BAD FEATURES - I do poorly conceived ESOTERIC BAD FEATURES

16:04:24  <supermop_Home> haven't touched any grf stuff in like 18 month though because it was all on previous computer

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16:48:01  <rotterdxm> supermop_Home, the PSDs would be nice too but I mainly want those bugfixes since 1.0

16:48:30  <rotterdxm> would rather work with the best version if i´m to add on to it

16:48:53  <rotterdxm> also thanks for taking the time to look

16:49:02  <rotterdxm> i was very happy to discover your docklands stuff

16:49:31  <rotterdxm> will be making transitional tiles for your roads and the FIRS and CHIPS terrains

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18:11:55  <nielsm> 1.10.1 today?

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18:50:10  <supermop_Home> rotterdxm should i send you the .zip on forum?

19:20:42  <rotterdxm> supermop_Home, yes plz

19:20:45  <rotterdxm> same account name

19:20:54  <rotterdxm> and again thanks !!!

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19:45:47  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JvxPG

19:45:47  <DorpsGek_III>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)

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19:50:37  <frosch123> i wonder how tb configured the mail server. apparently we can receive mails from some parallel universe

19:50:46  <frosch123> "Could I have level 100 please because my brother is really into planes and he can’t fly the because I am not high enough level so I was just wondering thx"

19:55:12  <andythenorth> randoms

20:02:37  <SpComb> sentence structure get

20:03:57  <frosch123> SpComb: ofc that was the subject, the body is empty

20:04:00  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> houses don't use cargo labels for acceptance <-- that's unfixable, because all old GRFs behave like that

20:04:59  <frosch123> the 64bit cargo support added a cargolist for house acceptance

20:05:18  <frosch123> s/bit//

20:05:54  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but that doesn't magically fix existing GRFs

20:05:57  <frosch123> is andy working on a house set?

20:06:22  <Eddi|zuHause> no, he's complaining that his industry GRF can't remove "Goods" cargo

20:06:39  <frosch123> ah, ok :)

20:07:44  <andythenorth> afaict, the solution is that I do a house set

20:07:49  <andythenorth> inside FIRS

20:07:55  <andythenorth> re-implementing all the base houses

20:08:25  <frosch123> that's probably a bad idea :)

20:08:28  <andythenorth> I'm wondering if I can automate that by having python parse the C++ files where the houses are defined

20:08:32  <Eddi|zuHause> that is a "solution" that creates more problems than it solves

20:09:26  <frosch123> i am sure you can find a cargo in every economy that is equally favoured by customers as goods

20:09:28  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: why can't you just accept that the first 6 or 7 cargos in the CTT are "fixed"?

20:09:32  <nielsm> can we hack the base game to have some more pseudo cargos for "first town cargo" (goods default), "second town cargo" (food default) which house sets can then use, and translate the old house properties' values for goods and food into those pseudo values?

20:09:47  <nielsm> and then an industry grf can define which cargos count as those two pseudo cargos?

20:09:49  <Eddi|zuHause> you can rename them, but not remove them

20:09:50  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause I have, what do you mean?

20:10:17  <frosch123> anyway, i think ottd already patches the default ships to use cargolabels

20:10:25  <frosch123> probably same can be done for default houses

20:10:25  <andythenorth> I literally wrote a guard for it https://github.com/andythenorth/firs/blob/master/src/cargo.py#L50

20:10:42  <andythenorth> but I can't stop the bug reports for economies where Goods isn't a cargo

20:10:59  <nielsm> well the towns have to accept something?

20:11:10  <andythenorth> I haven't campaigned to get this fixed

20:11:26  <andythenorth> because I think town acceptance is blah blah already

20:11:44  <andythenorth> I don't really use towns in my games any more, except to get local authority permission

20:12:20  * andythenorth considers playing without towns

20:12:36  <nielsm> replace all town buildings with parking lots

20:17:15  * andythenorth wonders if YETI has goods

20:19:01  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: a lot of the discussions in the past few years show the same fundamental problem: you have a too narrow view of gameplay in mind

20:19:28  <Eddi|zuHause> you have a problem seeing how other people play the game

20:19:41  <Eddi|zuHause> which leads to bad game design

20:20:18  <andythenorth> ok, I'll come back later

20:20:31  <frosch123> what's if the problem is with the other people?

20:20:34  <andythenorth> this isn't a conducive conversation

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20:21:00  <Eddi|zuHause> that was probably phrased too harshly

20:22:37  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: accepting that the users are flawed is an important lesson as well :)

20:24:52  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: the major problem with your argument is that you remove all edges. if every set is made to please everyone, they converge to the same thing. just as large political parties

20:26:54  <frosch123> ah, i found another solution. andy can rename the pax cargo to "metalvores"

20:27:14  <frosch123> or "robots" if that is too abstract

20:27:25  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that is true, however, that means if you have to put in edges, you have to deal with the people that wish the edge was a tiny bit in a different place

20:28:15  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fboscato opened issue #8069: Não consigo comprar as componias no jogo  https://git.io/JvxX5

20:30:07  <nielsm> can anyone translate?

20:31:15  <Eddi|zuHause> from the 75% i think he's talking about buying shares?

20:31:31  <nielsm> yea I assume it's something with that

20:33:19  <nielsm> google translate says "I can't buy companies when I own 75% shares"

20:34:00  <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably been a multiplayer session at some point?

20:34:18  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8069: Unable to take over companies https://git.io/JvxX5

20:35:05  <nielsm> I did a rough guesstranslation based off google

20:35:25  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8069: Unable to take over companies https://git.io/JvxX5

20:37:14  <Eddi|zuHause> suggestion: can always buy 100% of an AI company, and buying 100% of a player company pops up a question whether they accept (puts the original owner in spectator mode. can switch to new company if they know the password)

20:38:46  <Eddi|zuHause> possibly with a setting

20:38:50  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8068: Streetcar track removal fails when bank balance negative https://git.io/JvxRZ

20:40:04  <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, what if he a) doesn't want to accept but gets spammed b) accepts accidentally?

20:40:51  <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: a) talk to an admin, b) bad luck

20:41:17  <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: a) could be limited to once per month

20:41:36  <nielsm> make it a button in your own company window instead, you have to manually open your own copmany window and click the button to accept the buyout

20:42:25  <nielsm> a buyout offer lasts for maybe a month, you can't send another while it stands and you can't rescind it

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20:56:57  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fboscato commented on issue #8069: Unable to take over companies https://git.io/JvxX5

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21:05:05  <andythenorth> right, what are we talking about?

21:05:12  * andythenorth had broken git, broken python, broken node

21:05:14  <andythenorth> in prod.

21:05:40  <andythenorth> this is now resolved, or at least the 404 checker thinks so

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21:07:34  <_dp_> accident protection can work like !resetme on our servers, you need to agree and immediately leave a company

21:07:43  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause the narrow view leads to bad API design not bad gameplay design

21:08:08  <andythenorth> gameplay tends to be better when it excludes compromise

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21:09:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i said "game", not "gameplay"

21:09:11  <Eddi|zuHause> the API is very much part of "game design"

21:09:21  <andythenorth> yes

21:09:47  <andythenorth> it's not controversial that my approach makes for terrible API design

21:10:57  <Eddi|zuHause> what i was saying after you left, was that whatever way you narrow it down, you have to deal with people who want it slightly wider in some direction

21:11:30  <andythenorth> there are 2 aspects to towns/houses

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21:12:17  <andythenorth> (1) is there a simple fix to have towns use labels, not fixed numeric cargo slots (2) is 1 terrible?

21:12:59  <andythenorth> towns / houses /s

21:13:23  <nielsm> I don't think there is a simple fix, it would have to be intrusive and make assumptions about what already existing town buildings newgrfs do

21:14:31  <Eddi|zuHause> forcing 1) onto existing GRFs would break all GRFs that already use "advanced" stuff

21:16:15  <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes keeping legacy stuff around leads to worse API design, but we can't really afford breaking the legacy stuff

21:16:43  <andythenorth> don't we have a grf version system? o_O

21:17:22  <nielsm> kind of yes, does anyone remember the process for deprecating old behaviour? :D

21:17:30  <Eddi|zuHause> that would only affect GRFs written after the grf version bump

21:17:36  <nielsm> and also that

21:17:46  <andythenorth> I'm intrigued what will break in grfs if houses use labels

21:17:53  <Eddi|zuHause> you still have to interface with the old GRFs

21:18:30  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: as far as i can tell, house GRFs can already use labels

21:19:40  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: are you sure newgrf houses are affected?

21:19:47  * andythenorth wonders what the actual problem is

21:19:50  <frosch123> i would not be suprised if default houses are different

21:20:44  <andythenorth> the observed behaviour was in FIRS 4 was houses accepting Carbon Steel cargo

21:21:19  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: well, my (admittedly vague) understanding is that in the simple case, newgrf houses are just copies of default houses with different graphics, and most house sets wouldn't even touch the cargo stuff

21:21:34  <andythenorth> I have plastered over that by putting Vehicles in slot 6

21:22:10  <andythenorth> I have no idea how this interacts with GS, or any of those things

21:22:30  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: GS only look for TownEffect

21:22:46  <andythenorth> do they?

21:22:47  <frosch123> andythenorth: you can also leave slot 6 empty

21:22:56  <andythenorth> what about the ones that require lots of cargos to towns?

21:22:56  <nielsm> is it perhaps possible to change default houses to not use cargo indexes but labels instead? or is there an issue with loading order?

21:22:59  <frosch123> or do you already use all 64? :p

21:23:13  <andythenorth> frosch123 no I don't, I auto-fill them currently

21:23:16  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: GS also have no clue whether cargo gets delivered to houses or industries, the town records both the same way

21:23:33  <frosch123> nielsm: default vehicles have no problems with cargo labels

21:23:41  <andythenorth> so in the case of a GS expecting good, I broke it?

21:23:55  <andythenorth> goods *

21:24:21  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if no cargo has TE_GOODS, then yes

21:24:36  <frosch123> gs should not care, otherwise its their problem

21:25:01  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and if cargo has TE_GOODS but not every town has a place that accepts it, then also yes

21:25:34  <Eddi|zuHause> you can have multiple cargos with TE_GOODS

21:25:45  <Eddi|zuHause> the GS wouldn't be able to distinguish them

21:25:47  <nielsm> also, food and water in arctic and tropical

21:26:12  <Eddi|zuHause> but you need at least one

21:26:40  <Eddi|zuHause> and you make everyone's life easier, if you then put that cargo in the original goods slot

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21:28:05  <frosch123> i think the correct soluton is to leave slot 6 empty

21:28:29  <frosch123> those towncargo slots are similar to cargo classes

21:28:55  <frosch123> industry sets are supposed to put cargos in there, that house grfs are supposed to accept

21:29:13  <frosch123> house grfs usually do not care about what cargos exist

21:29:24  <frosch123> they rather want something cargo-classy

21:29:50  <andythenorth> so in the immediate, vehicles is probably ok as a sticking plaster

21:30:01  <frosch123> we can change the behaviour so that houses use the town-effect property of cargos instead of the cargo slots

21:30:18  <andythenorth> that would make sense, but TE Water?

21:30:49  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i find it difficult to believe that you can't find some consumer/household products made from steel

21:30:54  <frosch123> then houses accept all cargos with effect pax/mail/goods/food

21:30:59  <frosch123> not just one, but all

21:31:15  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause every home has a dump truck no?

21:31:17  <frosch123> andythenorth: water is accepted by water towers, not houses

21:31:57  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that sounds like a bad idea, because then you break community market industries

21:32:16  <frosch123> what industries?

21:32:51  <andythenorth> off-topic: why is zsh so weird :|

21:32:59  <andythenorth> 20 years of bash, I wasn't ready for change

21:33:16  <Eddi|zuHause> industries that are placed in towns, that accept various town effect cargos that shouldn't be sent directly to houses

21:33:32  <frosch123> who uses that?

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21:33:38  <Eddi|zuHause> like, grocery stores and stuff

21:33:49  <frosch123> why do they use town effects?

21:34:04  <frosch123> is that a real thing, or did you make it up?

21:34:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i believe some versions of FIRS had that, but i lost track... :p

21:34:52  <Eddi|zuHause> like, construction materials and stuff

21:35:33  <andythenorth> seems petroleum fuels

21:35:38  <andythenorth> https://firs-test-1.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/firs-v4-previews/docs/html/code_reference.html

21:35:50  <andythenorth> I only set the town effects because I have to

21:35:56  <andythenorth> I don't really understand them

21:36:00  <_dp_> can someone with a mac check if it works on reddit #1?

21:36:07  <_dp_> there are some desync suspicions

21:36:13  <_dp_> 1.10.0

21:36:26  <andythenorth> someone explained TOWNGROWTH_GOODS to me once, but I forget

21:36:53  <andythenorth> Goods sets TOWNGROWTH_WATER

21:36:59  <andythenorth> I'm sure this is all fine?

21:37:10  <frosch123> goods effect is currently unused by default game

21:37:32  <frosch123> it was used in the past, until someone made the subsidy creation more magic

21:38:15  * andythenorth recodes the guard on cargo 6

21:38:27  <frosch123> but we can give it a new meaning "accepted by houses who accept default goods"

21:38:43  <frosch123> andythenorth: isn't it 5?

21:39:09  <andythenorth> it's index 5 in my array

21:40:04  * andythenorth recodes the gaurd on cargo 5

21:41:57  <_dp_> would be nice to have client report some build info to a server

21:42:06  <_dp_> mainly os and patchpack

21:42:33  <andythenorth> _dp_ is there a reported repro, or just random crashing?

21:43:24  <_dp_> you mean for mac desync? ppl keep desyncing, one managed to say he's on mac before dropping out xD

21:44:01  <_dp_> hard to get more info from players that can't stay on the server

21:44:33  <andythenorth> protocol error, connection closed

21:44:49  <andythenorth> do we have a desync log?

21:45:06  <_dp_> *** Player has left the game (wrong company in DoCommand)

21:45:09  <_dp_> o_O

21:45:12  <_dp_> was that you?

21:45:20  <andythenorth> yup

21:45:35  <andythenorth> triggers on 'New Company'

21:45:43  <_dp_> that's a new error xD

21:45:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i smell an endianness issue?

21:46:41  <andythenorth> Network - Game synchronisation failed

21:46:42  <glx> hmm broken endianness detection ?

21:46:44  <andythenorth> in spectator

21:47:14  <_dp_> andythenorth, can you check citymania test server as well?

21:47:27  <_dp_> I may be able to tell more for it..

21:47:56  <_dp_> oh, last one on reddit came as desync

21:48:33  <glx> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/2196cd3cf87f2fa164ad746b87e2686e2b207158 <-- only change I see in this area

21:49:46  <_dp_> interesting, so citymania doesn't desync...

21:50:01  <glx> there's also https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/9959cd9522c939d83744c1eac97582c842ed9907#diff-42f739ee9a4be3f2fe31dacb5ce68182 and https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/0165fe128339733822cf56c6d230de4778bbad39#diff-42f739ee9a4be3f2fe31dacb5ce68182

21:50:04  <_dp_> seems like it's either something in that game or reddit issue

21:50:31  <_dp_> wrong company in DoComman is a very weird issue though

21:53:28  <glx> hmm no the two latest links are also in 1.9.3

21:54:28  <frosch123> glx: the endian stuff is not used in gameplay or network code

21:54:36  <frosch123> only in sound and graphics stuff

21:55:15  <Eddi|zuHause> then the next suspicion is one of the custom server patches

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21:59:02  <frosch123> oh noes, is it companyid cast again?

21:59:32  <_dp_> possibly

21:59:41  <frosch123> is "byte" signed on osx?

21:59:56  <_dp_> I think reddit uses vanilla server with admin port

22:00:11  <_dp_> mb wrong on vanilla part tho

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22:05:10  <Eddi|zuHause> so it might be a DoCommand issued by admin port?

22:05:53  <_dp_> don't think it would report it as an exit reason if it was by admin

22:08:12  <andythenorth> so this cargo flow has an interesting side effect https://firs-test-1.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/firs-v4-previews/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown

22:08:13  <frosch123> no idea what could be osx specific

22:08:27  <andythenorth> all the chains converge on vehicles, and take a long time to connect

22:08:39  <andythenorth> then suddenly there are a *lot* of vehicles being produced

22:09:02  <Wolf01> Eddi|zuHause: did you find a way to upgrade station parts without rebuilding the entire station in transport fever?

22:09:05  <frosch123> why suddenly?

22:09:17  <andythenorth> combinatorial production

22:09:34  <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: admin port might not be the reason for the desync, but might be key to reproducing it reliably

22:09:59  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: i haven't really played in a while

22:10:44  <andythenorth> I could probably fight more into this economy

22:10:48  <andythenorth> but should I? :P

22:13:23  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: how do i zoom in the "cargo flow larger" view?

22:13:30  <Eddi|zuHause> ctrl+scrollwheel does nothing

22:13:37  <Eddi|zuHause> can't read any of the text

22:13:43  <andythenorth> the larger view is not loading for me in Chrome

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22:13:57  <andythenorth> oh it loads on refresh

22:14:07  <andythenorth> do you see controls here? https://firs-test-1.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/firs-v4-previews/docs/html/cargoflow_steeltown.html

22:14:15  <andythenorth> I'm using some javascript 3rd party thing

22:14:53  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, there's +/reset/- in the lower right

22:14:59  <Eddi|zuHause> not in my original tab, though

22:15:30  <Eddi|zuHause> and also ctrl+scroll works now

22:15:55  <Eddi|zuHause> the minimap is wrong though

22:16:09  <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't properly follow mouse cursor, has an offset

22:17:26  * andythenorth looks for an update

22:18:04  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: how about glass works produces "town supplies"?

22:18:45  <andythenorth> I could split glass

22:18:51  <andythenorth> also the component factory could produce goods

22:19:05  <andythenorth> tyres I can't split

22:19:16  <andythenorth> vehicles engines probably not

22:19:35  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, tryres and engines don't make sense to split off

22:20:08  <Eddi|zuHause> component factory could provide consumer electronics?

22:20:35  <Eddi|zuHause> say, radios, microwaves, fridges etc.?

22:21:00  <andythenorth> yes, it's possible

22:21:20  <andythenorth> I also considered refining aluminium, from aluminia

22:21:26  <andythenorth> instead of importing it

22:21:35  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i also always need to reload that page

22:21:47  <frosch123> for some magical reason the js only works the second time

22:21:57  <andythenorth> I've just played this economy through, and it _might_ be finished

22:22:12  <andythenorth> I did try inserting tin -> tinplate -> cannery

22:22:17  <frosch123> does that mean you are going to delete it?

22:22:21  <andythenorth> but I got bored learning about metal food packaging

22:22:25  <andythenorth> frosch123 not until v6

22:22:37  <frosch123> i think i lost count

22:22:43  <andythenorth> v4

22:22:48  <frosch123> ok :)

22:23:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not even sure if FIRS was already v1 when i last played

22:23:22  <andythenorth> those were less good versions :P

22:23:52  <andythenorth> https://github.com/ariutta/svg-pan-zoom/issues/354

22:37:24  <andythenorth> if anybody wants to learn about tinplate :P https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinplate

22:37:29  <andythenorth> I'd try to include it somehow

22:37:37  <andythenorth> or an equivalent

22:38:01  <andythenorth> https://packaging.arcelormittal.com/repository2/Unassigned/ArcelorMittal%20Packaging%20-%20product%20catalogue.pdf

22:38:49  <frosch123> how about a bronce-age economy? after 100 years all industries announce bronce-age-collapse and close

22:40:39  <andythenorth> dwarf fortress economy?

22:46:28  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure the bronze age lasted longer than 100 years before the collapse :p

22:47:00  <Eddi|zuHause> also, we don't have any BCE dates

22:49:16  <andythenorth> so are tin cans mostly made of steel or aluminium?

22:49:23  <andythenorth> I cannot find a convincing answer

22:49:39  <andythenorth> the trade associations for each material have won at SEO for their term :P

22:51:02  <andythenorth> if I believed their pages, all tin cans are and should only be made of steel

22:51:07  <andythenorth> or aluminium, respectively

22:52:12  <frosch123> here it says that 70% of all tin-plated steel is used for cans

22:52:19  <Eddi|zuHause> there's probably a difference between drinking cans and food cans

22:52:50  <frosch123> sounds plausible

22:54:23  <andythenorth> I've got vehicles and construction steel featured

22:54:32  <andythenorth> but not consumer goods or packaging steel

22:55:31  <frosch123> so you can deliver fresh food and canned food (=goods)

22:55:39  <andythenorth> o_O

22:55:59  <andythenorth> I was saving that for a future city economy

22:56:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think canned food should be something other than te_food

22:56:12  <andythenorth> the city economy may never happen :)

22:56:17  <andythenorth> what goes in the cans?

22:56:20  <Eddi|zuHause> that brings us right back to the original problem

22:56:27  <frosch123> pineapples?

22:56:30  <andythenorth> yum

22:56:38  <Eddi|zuHause> of confusing people what constitutes "goods"

22:57:20  <frosch123> andythenorth: pineapple is a standard placeholder term: dies, das, ananas

22:57:27  <andythenorth> ha

22:57:42  <andythenorth> I think my German teacher taught us that once

22:57:55  <frosch123> really? impressive

22:57:58  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i've heard that before

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22:58:47  <andythenorth> it's said in a rhyming way, no?

22:58:52  <Eddi|zuHause> there's this weird section of passive vocabulary, where you can discern the meaning of a phrase you've never heard before

22:58:54  <frosch123> yes

22:59:11  <Eddi|zuHause> because it is immediately intuitively clear

23:01:36  <andythenorth> hmm steel fasteners?

23:01:43  <andythenorth> (nuts and bolts mostly)

23:02:00  <Eddi|zuHause> construction steel?

23:02:35  <frosch123> pressing irons?

23:02:37  <nielsm> extruded steel?

23:02:45  <nielsm> (as a catch-all term)

23:03:23  <andythenorth> there's a whole world of steel related terms :)

23:03:32  <andythenorth> and some overlap or mean more than one thing :)

23:03:35  <andythenorth> it's fascinating

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23:54:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8063: Fix #8055: Always allow building any available roadtypes, even if there are no road vehicles available https://git.io/JvxQY

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