IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-03-08
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08:49:38 * andythenorth has an Eddi|zuHause type problem
08:51:11 <Wolf01> Oh, quarantine, I prepared for ages :P (let's see if the law is really approved first, here they first give the news and then might approve it)
08:51:33 <andythenorth> did you panic buy?
08:51:46 <andythenorth> the headlines here are great
08:51:55 <andythenorth> even responsible news outlets repeat the following pattern
08:52:15 <andythenorth> Headline: "government and supermarkets say no need to panic buy". Picture: empty shelves in supermarket
08:53:29 <Wolf01> Also I bet no trip to Japan this year for me... :(
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09:12:07 <TrueBrain> really sucks Wolf01 ..
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10:30:01 <TrueBrain> < Content-Length: 44477
10:30:19 <TrueBrain> seems pm has many BaNaNaS entries in its name .. takes 45k bytes to send all the info back over the wire :D
10:39:05 <Eddi|zuHause> some common musa config used for various projects?
10:41:13 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it might help if you actually stated your problem
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10:43:32 <Eddi|zuHause> on the topic of panic-buy: i've thought of the following psychologic phenomenon: if the news mention toilet paper, a larger than average amount of people go: "ah, i remember, i should get toilet paper"
10:44:00 <TrueBrain> now you mention it .... ;)
10:53:22 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I'll state it in two ways
10:53:44 <andythenorth> I want to space out cargo price factors algorithmically, whilst also having manual control
10:54:10 <andythenorth> the reason is that if two cargos have same price factor, the payment rate graph is unhelpful
10:54:39 <andythenorth> the actual problem is the payment graph, in terms of work, I'd rather do nothing at all about this :P
10:55:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never felt like the payment graph is actually helpful
10:55:39 <andythenorth> I was spacing price factors out manually, but that can mean a lot of manual shuffling when inserting a new cargo where there's no gap
10:56:10 <andythenorth> I could automate the shuffling :P
10:56:15 <andythenorth> I tend to agree about the graph
10:57:12 <Eddi|zuHause> so you need something if 3 cargos are set at 200, you want to give one +5 and another one -5?
10:57:30 <andythenorth> yes, but also have to check if 195 and 205 are free
10:58:03 <andythenorth> and also pin the min and max values for all cargos
10:58:18 <andythenorth> I could just distribute evenly between min and max?
10:58:33 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a "hard" problem
10:59:24 <Eddi|zuHause> it might be easier if you restrict it to only do "+5"
10:59:47 <andythenorth> the current price factor range is 120
10:59:50 <andythenorth> and there are 160 cargos
11:00:00 <andythenorth> so simple distribution won't work :(
11:00:32 <andythenorth> hmm no, my file browser is being weird
11:01:06 <Eddi|zuHause> but cargos that don't appear in the same economy are free to have the same value?
11:01:29 <andythenorth> so maximum is 64
11:01:51 * andythenorth wonders what the graph looks like if they just space evenly
11:02:31 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't the payment graph have 2 or 3 parameters?
11:02:57 <andythenorth> it has decay curves as well
11:03:36 <Eddi|zuHause> starting value and 2 decay cutoff dates, and a daecay rate, or something?
11:04:26 <Eddi|zuHause> so you could say: if two cargos have same starting value, they need to have different decay rates
11:04:46 * andythenorth wonders about changing it all :P
11:04:49 <andythenorth> it's interesting, designing the gameplay, just to make the graph work :)
11:05:42 <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably backwards, you should redesign the GUI to fit your gamedesign instead
11:05:46 <TrueBrain> < Content-Length: 1423611 <- I might need to do some kind of pagination :D
11:07:52 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: probably fine?
11:08:14 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I'm +1, but I don't know what would be good :)
11:08:25 * andythenorth must to football with kids
11:27:26 <Samu> oops already said it, i'm sleepy
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11:36:06 <Samu> _dp_ remember yesterday, me saying CMD_SPECTATOR worked?
11:36:36 <Samu> turns out now companies are no longer able to respond
11:37:05 <Samu> the event is sent, but it's coming from spectator, even when i answered inside a company
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12:04:26 <frosch123> swaggerhub duplicates a lot of emails
12:04:45 <frosch123> about half of the messages are duplicated
12:05:40 <TrueBrain> emails? It sends emails?
12:05:57 <TrueBrain> guess it ended up in a /dev/null for me :D
12:06:24 <TrueBrain> I have notifications enabled .. weird ..
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12:06:37 <TrueBrain> anyway, lot of changes frosch123 ; mostly things I found during implementation :)
12:06:38 <frosch123> you had to grant it the user:email scope
12:06:49 <TrueBrain> yeah, it has my email .. I am just not getting any :P
12:10:51 <TrueBrain> yeah, here too, two emails about everything
12:11:09 <TrueBrain> anyway, biggest change is a simple "Bearer" token for authentication (the username is the token :P)
12:11:22 <TrueBrain> I forgot some fields, like "archived" and "replaced-by"
12:11:39 <TrueBrain> spelling errors .. so if you made a stub, you need to make a new one :)
12:13:15 <TrueBrain> frosch123: one thing I noticed while implementing .. a PUT to update existing entries .. should that result in a commit to GitHub, or should there be a "publish"?
12:13:24 <TrueBrain> as I can imagine people want to stack a few changes on top, before sending it out to the world
12:13:28 <TrueBrain> not sure what is a good approach there
12:14:01 <TrueBrain> auto-publish 5 minutes after last change?
12:14:29 <frosch123> the premium approach would be to have a logfile per uniqueid (who changed what), and have a commit-delay of 15 minutes
12:14:48 <TrueBrain> those are 2 different things you mention :D
12:14:56 <TrueBrain> but not disagreeing :)
12:15:30 <TrueBrain> audit-log is a nice feature, I am going to put it on the imaginary wish-list .. I should make it less imaginary :D
12:15:36 <TrueBrain> as really that is a good idea
12:22:28 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i am missing a 4xx code from "publish" that reports all issues from package validation
12:22:56 <frosch123> not sure whether it needs "dryrun" action
12:28:26 <TrueBrain> Good point. And the GET does the dry run :)
12:55:22 <Samu> a handy event would be, "ClientJoinedCompany"
12:55:49 <Samu> i wanted my gS to detect when a client joins a company
12:58:53 <Samu> GetJoinDate (ClientID client) ... too bad the game is paused at the moment , can't use this
13:06:44 <_dp_> stupid network commands :/
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13:20:35 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I thought of a really trivial way to shift price factors, walking a list and incrementing all values to right of position n when needed
13:20:58 <andythenorth> doing anything more than that seems to balloon in complexity
13:21:11 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that should probably be a priority queue by lowest original value
13:21:45 <andythenorth> that seems to be a standard structure?
13:21:58 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on your language/library
13:22:29 <andythenorth> I tried to devise a way to first fill gaps, then incremement all
13:22:44 <andythenorth> or even fill gaps, then incremement only next
13:23:04 <andythenorth> but everything I thought of either has some(n) value of complexity I don't understand
13:23:20 <andythenorth> or has nasty side effects, like accidentally bubbling a low value cargo to be very high value
13:23:58 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the idea is: no matter in which order you insert the values, you increment the higher ones first, until the condition is met
13:24:28 <Eddi|zuHause> that hopefully should preserve the original order, and avoid snowballing one low one
13:25:39 <Eddi|zuHause> so you start at value 0 (or 1, or 150, or whatever), collect all with that value in the queue, if there's more than one, you increment, and throw it into the next queue
13:25:52 <andythenorth> ok that makes sense
13:26:23 <Eddi|zuHause> once you're done incrementing, you collect all you've incremented, plus all ones that use that next as the starting value
13:26:23 <andythenorth> this is going to turn out to be more work than manually spacing :P
13:26:27 <andythenorth> but manually spacing is boring
13:28:04 <Eddi|zuHause> by using a priority queue, you're ensuring that the last item in the queue is the one with the lowest starting value, no matter in which order you throw in the values
13:28:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the last item won't be incremented
13:29:40 <Eddi|zuHause> (you potentially use a lot of queues, but that could be optimized if it turns out to be a problem)
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13:49:01 <Wolf01> <Wolf01> Oh, quarantine, I prepared for ages :P (let's see if the law is really approved first, here they first give the news and then might approve it) <- It looks like I just need to prove I'm going to work and I could move
13:53:08 <TrueBrain> enjoy the traffic jams, I guess :P
13:57:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: what kind of document would prove that?
13:58:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: and would you get fired if you called in you can't go to work because of quarantine?
14:02:46 <andythenorth> so who else had a 24-48hr fever in Jan or Feb?
14:03:09 <andythenorth> followed by possibly a 1-2 weeks of dry cough?
14:03:54 * andythenorth reading that CV19 now believed to have been circulating in Italy 'for weeks' prior to detection
14:04:22 <TrueBrain> and what are the odds you really notice a fever that short?
14:04:33 <andythenorth> the one I had, was noticeable
14:04:34 <TrueBrain> ("worked too hard", etc)
14:04:42 <andythenorth> was in bed, in all my clothes, shivering cold
14:04:50 <TrueBrain> well, that is a clear fever, yes :P
14:04:52 <andythenorth> most of my office had same thing over several weeks
14:05:08 <andythenorth> not flu, you know if you've got flu
14:05:37 <TrueBrain> so many people confuse "flu" with "a cold", etc :P
14:05:48 <TrueBrain> eat something bad? I HAVE THE FLU
14:06:02 <TrueBrain> I dont trust humans to guestimate what is wrong with them :P
14:06:05 <FLHerne> andythenorth: I did, and had exactly the same thought
14:06:20 <FLHerne> But I think that was mid-Jan
14:06:25 <andythenorth> FLHerne: I mean, it's one step away from mad conspiracy theories
14:06:36 <andythenorth> but it could have travelled really fast and been undetected
14:06:55 <andythenorth> it wouldn't show up in hospital admissions because doctors would file it as seasonal flu
14:07:13 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the conspiracy theory i've read is that the two countries italy and iran who are heavily affected also have a sizable chinese population working there
14:07:30 <TrueBrain> what I read, is that this is the democrats wanting to make Trump look bad
14:07:45 <andythenorth> we seem to have exported it from Bristol to China in one case
14:08:06 <andythenorth> someone travelled *to* China with symptoms, was tested and quarantined on arrival
14:09:51 <TrueBrain> right .. changed my Python code to relative imports .. not sure I like that better
14:09:56 <TrueBrain> but at least it makes it a bit more portable :)
14:10:37 <andythenorth> is it time for coffee then?
14:10:44 <andythenorth> also has peter1138 had lunch?
14:17:59 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: not that it's a hoax by china to harm the US economy?
14:18:59 <TrueBrain> no no, this is dem vs rep
14:19:17 <TrueBrain> they know they are losing the election, so they had to come up with something
14:19:21 <TrueBrain> it totally make sense
14:19:31 <TrueBrain> kill a few thousand people to get a dem president
14:19:39 <TrueBrain> (this ofc is fully sarcastic)
14:24:06 <milek7> I had cold at beginning of february
14:24:12 <milek7> but well, I don't really know if it was cold :P
14:24:20 <frosch123> andythenorth: the mortality is higher for asian people, so it probably originates from an american bio weapon laboratory
14:25:14 <TrueBrain> the mortality is also higher for elder people ..... created by young people?!
14:25:52 <frosch123> or created by the elder people when they were younger?
14:26:22 <TrueBrain> okay, I broke swaggerhub it seems ... every change adds 9 errors of "undefined"
14:27:34 <Wolf01> <TrueBrain> and what are the odds you really notice a fever that short? <- that's the point, I always have some fever when I return home at the evening, 37.2-37.4°C
14:27:49 <Wolf01> <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: what kind of document would prove that? <- the payslip should be fine, it has my details and the company details
14:28:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: what if i have 3 different work sites i need to get outside the company hq?
14:28:57 <Wolf01> We have those too, we'll limit the movements
14:28:57 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: then you are obviously a major risk
14:31:16 <TrueBrain> lets just hope this virus cannot jump electronical ..
14:31:43 <Wolf01> There are worse ones there :D
14:34:12 <Wolf01> At least you won't get wiretap from the Russians/Chinese/Koreans/USA/Iraq/Israel with a flu
14:40:04 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #8033: Change: A company goal type will open the company overview window when clicked https://git.io/Jvr58
14:47:13 <Samu> wondering if it was forgotten
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15:20:44 <TrueBrain> why did they make it so difficult to make a venv that is both Linux (WSL) and Windows compatible ..
15:20:51 <TrueBrain> but okay, I got it working again
15:27:05 <Samu> looks like I found a bug
15:27:39 <Samu> a difficult one to reproduce
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15:28:59 <Samu> goal gui window is bugged when trying to show a destination for global goal list in single player
15:29:46 <Samu> oh, also happens in multiplayer
15:30:08 <Samu> I need to make sure it's not caused by my PR
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15:35:37 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PikkaBird opened issue #8034: Text in cheat menu window is excessively dramatic https://git.io/Jvrdw
15:37:38 <TrueBrain> lol, now that is some dramatic text indeed. Making that a bit more polite wouldn't hurt anyone :P
15:40:50 <_dp_> rofl, I constanly use cheat window but never noticed it has that warning xD
15:41:09 <Wolf01> I would replace it with "Use these solutions as you please, but your mischiefs will be saved with the game"
15:41:58 <_dp_> which is ofc pure nonsense as you can only desync if you use it, not "betray" anyone.
15:42:42 <_dp_> btw, half of cheat window should just go to settings imo
15:42:46 <frosch123> isn't there a special circle in hell for people who cheated in ottd?
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15:44:00 <TrueBrain> Wolf01: I agree :) Telling users that using cheats is stored in the savegame is the least we can do :)
15:44:13 <TrueBrain> frosch123: it is in the game, so it is just gameplay!!!!!!!!!1111
15:45:37 <Wolf01> I also agree with _dp_, some of the cheats are just playstyle :P
15:46:52 <_dp_> adding money is an action not a setting
15:47:01 <frosch123> there is an option to pay back your cheat money. just because dalestan complanied so loudly
15:47:06 <_dp_> but everything that is a setting may as well go where it belongs
15:47:26 <TrueBrain> I know little about the cheat menu, just that this conversation surfaces every N months :D
15:48:25 <Wolf01> Isn't the max map height already a setting?
15:48:36 <frosch123> yes, but it is readonly
15:48:53 <frosch123> the cheat window contains settings which are likely to break something
15:49:12 <frosch123> changing map height is an issue, disabling elrail is also quite bad
15:49:31 <_dp_> frosch123, elrail is not a cheat :p
15:49:36 <frosch123> the change climate setting was removed, becuase it really only crashed the game
15:50:00 <Wolf01> Also I would change the tooltip to explain what the cheat does, the label is a bit cryptic and the actual tooltip just say what should be written in the message at the top
15:50:21 <_dp_> I highly doubt plane crash setting can crash anything (but planes)
15:50:57 <_dp_> same goes for magic bulldozer
15:51:21 <_dp_> dunno about tunnels but seems safe too
15:51:24 <frosch123> _dp_: disabling elrail really causes problems
15:51:29 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8034: Text in cheat menu window is excessively dramatic https://git.io/Jvrdw
15:51:55 <_dp_> frosch123, only if you switch it back and forth I suppose?
15:52:14 <_dp_> because we run without elrail for like 10 years and never noticed any problems
15:52:17 <frosch123> it clashes with newgrf railtypes
15:55:40 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Wolfolo commented on issue #8034: Text in cheat menu window is excessively dramatic https://git.io/Jvrdw
15:58:01 <TrueBrain> {"errors": [], "files": [{"filesize": 393, "errors": [], "uuid": "374640f88004e0b30ebfda9c0cae8e74", "filename": "test.py"}], "warnings": [], "status": "OK"}
15:58:06 <TrueBrain> seems I can upload files :D W00p
15:59:59 <andythenorth> oh we're discussing cheats?
16:00:07 * andythenorth has been soldering train signals and crap
16:01:32 <andythenorth> so we have cheats
16:01:36 <andythenorth> but we can't use them in MP
16:01:39 <andythenorth> and where are the competitors?
16:09:02 <Samu> "Fix: Global goal list don't have company specific goals to scroll to a tile"
16:12:02 <TrueBrain> now I need to change all exception into a validationexception, and make the validation async :)
16:12:29 <frosch123> so you went for aiohttp?
16:12:38 <TrueBrain> there was no framework to worked
16:12:44 <TrueBrain> so this was significant easier :)
16:12:53 <TrueBrain> but for the frontend you can use what-ever, if you like
16:12:57 <TrueBrain> flask is fine there, for example
16:13:23 <TrueBrain> s/to/that/, sucky english much yes yes
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16:22:36 <Samu> "Fix: The non-applicable goal in global goal list no longer show a destination on click"
16:25:04 <Samu> "Fix: Non-applicable goal in global goals list is no longer clickable"
16:26:31 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #8035: Fix: Non-applicable goal in global goals list is no longer clickable https://git.io/JvrFj
16:26:40 <Samu> meh, sorry for my english
16:31:44 <Samu> Can't use my GS as test case, because it only sets goals of type COMPANY
16:34:09 <Samu> interesting, busy bee doesn't trigger it
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16:35:10 <Samu> now im intrigued, why didn't it trigger the bug
16:41:29 <Samu> I see, it doesn't set global goals
16:41:42 <TrueBrain> "More than one NewGRF files was detected, where only one was expected." <- w00p :D
16:41:49 <Samu> so it needs a global goal and a company specific goal
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17:09:27 <Samu> I can't believe I couldn't find a GS that could trigger this bug
17:10:15 <Samu> no one sets a destination on click on their global goals
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17:12:09 <_dp_> I don't send destinations because I was fed up rewriting goal management code 5 times even without them :p
17:13:13 <TrueBrain> I was thinking you were a better programmer :P (TROLOLOLOL)
17:14:00 <_dp_> TrueBrain, you just underestimate how bad goal api is :p
17:17:28 <TrueBrain> w00p, I can also now remove files from my new packages ... I like working from OpenAPI to implementation :)
17:18:23 <TrueBrain> "Expected exact 5 NewGRF file(s), but 6 were found",
17:18:23 <TrueBrain> "License is not yet set for this package"
17:18:54 <TrueBrain> _dp_: I still don't like reading Squirrel :P
17:19:12 <TrueBrain> (I am joking, to be clear :P)
17:19:19 <Samu> ok, i dont need a company specific goal, i just need a single global goal with a destination set to some tile, enough to trigger the bug, that's doable
17:19:46 * _dp_ never bothered to learn squirrel
17:20:05 <TrueBrain> I see my attempt of being funny failed :P
17:20:19 <TrueBrain> let me rephrase: I am heavily disapointed it is not done in Squirrel :P
17:20:48 <TrueBrain> so you compiled this in the server, or how should I read this?
17:21:12 <_dp_> TrueBrain, well, it's impossible to do with squirrel :p
17:21:23 <_dp_> yeah, it's part of a server patch
17:22:01 <TrueBrain> I wanted to rewrite how stuff integrates with OpenTTD, but it was not ... received well, to make an understament of the centry :P
17:22:09 <TrueBrain> so yeah, server patch seems to be a valid solution :)
17:22:15 <TrueBrain> just a bit sad that it is needed ;)
17:26:46 <TrueBrain> okay ... OpenTTD-content-api is functional-ish .. at least, all the API call (except for search :D) work, validate their data, and return what they should
17:27:11 <_dp_> I mostly missed that drama
17:27:25 <_dp_> also would take a lot of rewriting to make it good
17:27:32 <TrueBrain> still work to do .. asyncio, GitHub repository management, CDN upload, and I am forgetting something .. hmm ...
17:27:41 <_dp_> as a lot of it is due to design limitations
17:27:51 <TrueBrain> _dp_: yup; so it cannot be done in current formats :)
17:28:46 <_dp_> though thing I'm missing the most atm is client-side coding
17:28:55 <_dp_> server-side is more or less sorted out with patches
17:29:09 <TrueBrain> yeah, that is always the trickest to tackle :)
17:29:33 <TrueBrain> games created the last few years do this from the ground up, like lua-interfacing
17:29:53 <TrueBrain> which is rather nice, I guess :)
17:29:57 <TrueBrain> what mods can do these days, is crazy
17:29:59 <_dp_> wasm seems to be a good tool for that but idk if I'll ever get to making anything usable with it
17:30:56 <TrueBrain> I am forgetting something with openttd-content-api, but I cannot remember :D
17:30:59 <TrueBrain> guess it is time for some food :P
17:31:38 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8035: Fix: Non-applicable goal in global goals list is no longer clickable https://git.io/JvrNY
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17:38:02 <TrueBrain> ah, I remember: I also have to make sure ValidationExceptions are thrown in the right places :)
17:39:05 <TrueBrain> guess I should wrap this in a Docker, so others can test if this also works for them, etc :D
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19:03:50 <nielsm> I obtained another classic MIDI synth today, a yamaha MU50
19:03:57 <nielsm> so yet another way to listen to old game music...
19:24:48 <andythenorth> ok what's left to do for FIRS v4?
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20:12:14 <snail_UES_> damn, it’s so hard to find a good dark yellow in the ttd palette
20:12:32 <snail_UES_> it should be $35-$3B, but the gap is so wide among the tones...
20:17:04 <andythenorth> no dark yellows really
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22:04:59 <Samu> glx, hi, i'm testing 8032
22:07:44 <Samu> erm, i mean not before, sorry. it's really against it
22:08:17 <Samu> seems to be easy to trigger with visual studio breakpoints
22:12:03 <Samu> i suppose i didn't need to rollback to that commit
22:20:52 <Samu> I expect fast forward to be slower, let's see
22:43:08 <Samu> heh, it's faster, like 0.000001%, negligible
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continue to next day ⏵
