IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-02-09
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00:20:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhbqc
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03:11:45 <Afdal> Okay so... say I did write a new routine that simply says if(vehicleReliability > somePlayerDefined%) {prevent all vehicle breakdowns}
03:12:09 <Afdal> Would it be necessary to change the reliability display?
03:12:18 <Afdal> because it wouldn't make sense anymore?
03:12:44 <Afdal> change it to something other than "% Reliability"?
03:13:34 <Afdal> Not that it ever made sense in the first place though, since 100% reliability vehicles can still break down.
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08:46:43 <LordAro> Afdal: in theory, probably not
08:47:20 <Afdal> Not necessary to combine it with any changes to reliability rating?
08:48:18 <LordAro> depebds whether you want it to apply to the initial or current rating
08:49:10 <Afdal> so that servicing still functions as a mechanic
08:50:52 <Afdal> You know this seems like such a simple and obvious solution to improve the vehicle breakdown system. I'm really curious if it has ever been proposed and why developers decided against it if so.
08:51:32 <Afdal> The way it works now most hardcore players simply turn breakdowns off completely, so it's not like this has to do with preserving the original gameplay of TTD.
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09:10:04 <Afdal> hmmmm, that's pretty complicated
09:11:18 <Afdal> "However, because breakdowns are no longer by definition a complete stop, their effects upon a (train) network are significantly reduced."
09:11:40 <Afdal> ehhh, any sorts of slowdowns are about equally bad in really dense hardcore train networks
09:12:21 <LordAro> we've already established thst you're very unusual in that you have "dense hardcore train networks" but also want breakdowns
09:12:33 <LordAro> for most prople, they're mutually exclusive
09:12:52 <LordAro> *assume i can type correctly
09:12:56 <Afdal> That's exactly the problem I'm seeking to address.
09:13:12 <Afdal> I think an option to halt all breakdowns above a certain reliability can recover breakdowns as a mechanic for hardcore players.
09:13:51 <LordAro> most people that build these sort of networks don't want anything interfering
09:14:00 <LordAro> breakdowns or otherwise
09:14:27 <Afdal> And if they place depots at the right spots, they'll never have them.
09:15:17 <Afdal> The other thing about this solution, is I think it should be quite a tiny addition of code, easily maintained
09:15:30 <Afdal> That breakdown patch is very complicated
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09:16:57 <LordAro> size of change is irrelevant, whether the change is "good" is more important
09:17:15 <LordAro> currently, we (devs) are unconvinced by your arguments
09:18:50 <LordAro> you're right, i shouldn't presume, but no one else has said anything to the contrary
09:39:33 <andythenorth> completion amount reduces :P
09:43:37 * andythenorth wonders about a new breakdown mechanic :P
09:43:48 <andythenorth> train goes and sits in depot for increasingly long periods
09:43:51 <andythenorth> but doesn't block lines
09:43:55 <andythenorth> will never work though
09:44:04 <andythenorth> trains can't find depots anyway
09:44:37 <andythenorth> gameplay idea fails at first obstacle :D
09:46:03 <Afdal> Trains can find depots at about 8 tiles from a path signal
09:46:31 <nielsm> realistic breakdowns, you'll have to wait until a rescue crew arrives at site and this depends on being able to run a second train up to another track next by or a road next by
09:46:33 <Afdal> When I setup servicing complexes for long trains, I build a bypass behind servicing trains
09:46:48 <nielsm> and then have to send another loco out to pull the dead one
09:46:52 <Afdal> so that trains can pass it at full speed while the servicing train is -slowly- making its way into a depot
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09:50:52 <nielsm> (I have once been in a swedish X2 high speed train that broke down on the middle of the line, and we had to wait for a rescue train to pull up on the opposite direction line next by, and then everyone was evacuated into the rescue train
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09:51:47 <dwfreed> in the US, most locos have front couplers, so they could just pull up from behind
09:52:13 <dwfreed> if a full replacement train is not possible
09:52:20 <nielsm> I don't remember seeing a train or loco that couldn't couple from both ends
09:53:32 <dwfreed> they're basically non-existant in traditional rail, but more common in high speed and light rail
09:59:41 * andythenorth wonders what the point of breakdowns is
09:59:41 <andythenorth> it's an extra dimension to newgrf design that I just ignore
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10:02:01 <nielsm> the entire point of breakdowns is to introduce some unpredictability in the gameplay
10:02:27 <nielsm> random event that can affect competition for a resource
10:03:48 <andythenorth> hmm Iron Horse is very boring compared to original base set trains
10:04:30 <andythenorth> so breakdowns are unpredictable events
10:04:36 <andythenorth> but vehicle reliability is designed to force upgrades afaict
10:04:59 <nielsm> and make models that otherwise have good specs less desirable
10:05:10 <andythenorth> it's interesting in original base set
10:05:22 <andythenorth> there is barely any logical progression in original base trains
10:05:37 <andythenorth> it's just a random assortment of engines
10:05:37 <nielsm> when it works it arrives much faster than the alternative, but it's massively delayed 30% of the time
10:06:23 <andythenorth> original trains make sense on small maps, where money is very constrained
10:06:36 <andythenorth> the win condition is "I can finally afford enough power"
10:06:45 <andythenorth> also the original physics model where hills aren't viable
10:07:01 * andythenorth considering redesigning Horse
10:07:28 <nielsm> yep hills and any turns are murder in original
10:07:48 <andythenorth> trains are grouped by role, speed, power
10:07:59 <andythenorth> progression every 30 years apart from a few randoms
10:08:56 <andythenorth> or maybe not scrap this, but a new roster
10:09:05 <andythenorth> one which makes no sense
10:09:18 <andythenorth> and is designed to be used with breakdowns on
10:16:34 <Afdal> Trains have really high power or something?
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10:22:37 <andythenorth> wide reliability spread
10:22:51 <andythenorth> highly variable between model types
10:23:00 <andythenorth> and multiple overlapping model types
10:23:08 <andythenorth> to force using the reliable version
10:23:30 <andythenorth> oof 'forcing' anything in newgrf is such a terrible design decision
10:24:56 <Afdal> andy you've been a developer for a while
10:25:25 <Afdal> Hasn't anyone proposed a simple semi-deterministic approach to breakdown mechanics before?
10:25:45 <Afdal> Where if reliability % is above some level vehicles simply don't break down
10:25:51 <andythenorth> the breakdown patches I'm aware of focus on things like 'keep driving but reduced power'
10:25:57 <andythenorth> or multi-engine breakdowns
10:26:17 <andythenorth> I'm not aware of a threshold
10:26:37 <andythenorth> seems difficult to communicate though, what would be the chance of breakdown if not the % reliability?
10:26:58 <andythenorth> hmm, maybe it shouldn't be random, but determistic
10:27:03 <Afdal> well it's never been 1-to-1 there
10:27:10 <andythenorth> a vehicle with 85% reliability should be stopped 15% of the time
10:27:12 <Afdal> 100% = still breaks down
10:27:15 <andythenorth> or lose 15% of power
10:27:29 <andythenorth> replace the random with deterministic
10:27:41 <andythenorth> train just stops for 15% of days in month
10:28:05 <andythenorth> or just apply 0.85 * power and 0.85 * vmax
10:29:05 <andythenorth> that would be like station rating and industry cargo
10:29:23 <andythenorth> I *always* forget that I only get 63% of the production cargo amount :P
10:29:54 <Afdal> You get 93% at max rating with 2+ year old vehicles
10:30:13 <andythenorth> 63% was an example ;)
10:30:17 <andythenorth> based on how I usually play
10:30:35 <Afdal> that's a mechanic people simply have to look up to understand
10:31:07 <andythenorth> I rarely get more than 70% FWIW
10:31:07 <Afdal> how station ratings work and how they affect output growth probability, in particular
10:31:17 <andythenorth> building statues and all that crap, who cares :D
10:31:41 <Afdal> Sometimes what I like to do is
10:31:54 <nielsm> individual train cars should have reliability, the train can't depart because one of the coaches couldn't close doors
10:32:27 <Afdal> make little transfer setups for industries I'm planning to connect in the far future. The transfer setups burn money to keep the ratings up to increase industry output while I"m not using them.
10:33:03 <andythenorth> wow statue really does make a difference
10:33:08 <andythenorth> quite quickly too
10:33:28 <andythenorth> that's nice in tiny original ttd maps
10:33:36 <andythenorth> but also so stupid
10:34:01 <Afdal> because I'm the only one who knows about it usually ;y
10:34:50 <nielsm> in the original game you could build any number of statues in a town
10:34:52 <andythenorth> oh I could just do advertising campaigns
10:35:06 <andythenorth> can I have an AI that just auto-builds all this crap?
10:35:13 <nielsm> only the first one provided a bonus, the remaining just replaced buildings ruining passenger production in the town
10:35:22 <andythenorth> if only there was a newgrf that nerfed station ratings :P
10:35:43 <Afdal> ad campaigns only work on stuff near the town center though
10:36:03 <Afdal> only statues can affect far away industries associated with the town
10:36:04 <andythenorth> FIRS used to have an option to just set all station ratings to 100%
10:36:08 <andythenorth> can't remember why I removed it :D
10:37:28 <Afdal> The only quirk about station ratings that I'm not fond of is the max vehicle speed part of calculation
10:37:52 <andythenorth> what rating? o_O
10:38:23 <Afdal> Means basically every newGRF should have a 256 km/h vehicle available at some point if it ever wants maximum station rating to be possible
10:39:08 <andythenorth> also the age thing
10:39:25 <andythenorth> constant auto-renew :P
10:39:46 <Afdal> I don't mind the age mechanic, it's only 7%
10:39:54 <Afdal> If you want that extra dosh you gotta work for it!
10:40:25 <andythenorth> with cdist, the goal for pax stations is lower rating not higher :P
10:40:42 <andythenorth> as most pax cargo will be transfers
10:40:52 <andythenorth> and station is otherwise overwhelmed
11:07:53 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7981: Feature #7735: Implement protocol handling https://git.io/Jvcki
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12:21:39 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened issue #7988: Memory leak: Depot::name is not freed in destructor https://git.io/JvcIF
12:29:27 <SpComb> isn't the 1.10 release only due in just under two months? :)
12:35:32 <LordAro> SpComb: something like that
12:36:21 <Wolf01> So, drag&drop in steam library to put games into categories is nice... if only the categories page was scrollable while you are dragging the game...
12:36:44 <LordAro> SpComb: 2 months should be plenty of time
12:36:49 <LordAro> might even get an RC2 in
12:37:31 <Eddi|zuHause> so now is the time to merge stuff for 1.11?
12:38:09 <LordAro> perhaps wait until we've actually done RC1, but in theory yes
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12:43:50 <LordAro> does require backporting though :)
12:45:25 <frosch123> i am not up for the challenge, are you?
12:45:29 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro opened pull request #7989: Fix #7988: Memory leak when using custom depot names https://git.io/JvcL8
12:45:40 <LordAro> frosch123: does that answer your question? :)
12:50:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #7989: Fix #7988: Memory leak when using custom depot names https://git.io/JvcL0
12:50:36 <frosch123> hmm, i think there are numerous leaks when CleaningPool
12:51:30 <nielsm> more std::strings except that the weird memory allocations the pools do might be invoking UB
12:51:42 <nielsm> when the pooled objects are not POD
12:52:00 <frosch123> hmm, nvm, the cases i thought of were ok
12:53:01 <frosch123> i think you can get rid of the pool weird magic, variadic templates make stuff a lot easier
12:55:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #7987: Update: Prepare for 1.10.0-RC1 https://git.io/JvcLo
12:55:17 <LordAro> might as well shove it into rc1 :)
12:55:26 <LordAro> yay for needlessly duplicated commits!
12:56:31 <frosch123> you didn't add it to the changelog
12:56:56 <LordAro> i didn't think it necessary
12:58:33 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7989: Fix #7988: Memory leak when using custom depot names https://git.io/JvcL8
12:58:34 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #7988: Memory leak: Depot::name is not freed in destructor https://git.io/JvcIF
12:58:35 <nielsm> like, it's theoretically a DoS'able bug: connect to a server, build, rename, destroy depots repeatedly, disconnect and quit to clean your client, reconnect and continue
12:59:31 <LordAro> *technically*, i guess
12:59:53 <LordAro> but this isn't OpenSSL, we don't have to provide advisory notices on every single problem
13:00:29 <LordAro> and given the maximum length of a depot name is 32 chars...
13:00:29 <nielsm> and servers with admins monitoring it would also catch that weird behaviour
13:00:55 <LordAro> i think you'd get memory usage up an awful lot faster by just playing the game :p
13:01:08 <LordAro> sure it wouldn't then be leaked, but...
13:01:33 <LordAro> so, title game competition?
13:01:38 <LordAro> who wants to run that?
13:01:44 <LordAro> or shall we ask Kamnet again?
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13:31:02 <frosch123> kamnet wasn't particular involved last year, was he?
13:33:47 <LordAro> thought he ran the competition last year?
13:35:16 <frosch123> he made the post, the rest did pm
13:35:50 <frosch123> i have no idea what the original plan was
13:36:03 <frosch123> but i don't think it went as planned
13:43:30 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe there should be a theme or something?
13:44:20 <nielsm> yeah it's a shame one of the major new features can't be showcased
13:45:22 <nielsm> again thinking of a moving camera title screen
13:45:31 <Eddi|zuHause> we need to quickly implement newgrf utopia, so title screen can use newgrfs :p
13:46:52 <LordAro> nielsm: too late, feature freeze now :p
13:47:25 <LordAro> i had a hacky patch somewhere that moved the viewport around based on signs
13:47:35 <nielsm> that's what I'm thinking too
13:47:52 <nielsm> just signs 1, 2, 3, etc
13:48:22 <nielsm> maybe with additional data like duration to stay on that point, or whether to pan the camera
13:48:51 <LordAro> i think there are some existing functions for panning the viewport
13:49:46 <Eddi|zuHause> the "scrollto" command would come to mind
13:57:13 <LordAro> someone want to approve & merge the website post?
13:59:26 <nielsm> oh I apparently can't really approve things on website
14:08:24 <frosch123> hmm,yeah, i guess core should also get website access then
14:09:43 <frosch123> nice, it doesn't even need re-approval
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14:40:39 <nielsm> the website is updated now
14:40:45 <nielsm> time to post on forum and such?
14:41:16 <nielsm> 1.10 is a huge release
14:46:11 <frosch123> @topic set 1 1.10.0-RC1, 1.9.3
14:46:12 *** DorpsGek changes topic to "1.10.0-RC1, 1.9.3 | Website: *.openttd.org (source: github, translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only"
14:46:52 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on issue #117: There's a couple of layouting/responsiveness issues in the OpenTTD website. https://git.io/Jed55
14:46:52 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro closed issue #117: There's a couple of layouting/responsiveness issues in the OpenTTD website. https://git.io/Jed55
14:46:56 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro reopened issue #117: There's a couple of layouting/responsiveness issues in the OpenTTD website. https://git.io/Jed55
15:01:21 <peter1138> Wolf01, interesting, when you redeem a Humble Choice game, if it has extra DLC you need to go back into the Humble Bundle Keys area to grab them separately.
15:01:28 <peter1138> Just found a bit of DLC to add :p
15:04:24 <peter1138> And I found an expired unused key :(
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15:32:15 <andythenorth> so much stuff in 1.10
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17:42:58 <nielsm> originally uploaded the files in august 2005, as far as I can tell
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18:30:12 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh requested changes for pull request #7822: Fix #7670: Cache the origin tile to prevent recurring calls to the road pathfinder when a vehicle is blocked by another https://git.io/JvcZs
18:32:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7670: Road vehicle pathing cache does not always pick up changes in road network https://git.io/fjyVR
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19:43:23 <LordAro> nielsm: i was literally about to post the same segment of code :)
19:44:17 <LordAro> though i was suspecting a c&p error with the duplication of SPR_TRAMWAY_BASE for both road & tram
19:44:26 <LordAro> looks like you got a bit further than me
19:45:50 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
19:46:01 <nielsm> good, late translations
19:46:26 <nielsm> I hope someone has the translations backport script functional and ready
19:47:11 <LordAro> i think i ran it last time
19:47:23 <LordAro> was expecting to have to do it before the actual release anyway
19:47:28 <LordAro> probably not worth doing it before
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19:53:22 <Samu> nielsm, #7822 - i don't think it needs to be saved, though I'm not totally sure
19:55:14 <Samu> the difference should be now that it doesn't have to repeat the pathfinder search to get the same result
19:59:46 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro opened pull request #7990: Codechange: Don't fail configure if SDL2 is not detected https://git.io/JvccG
20:01:17 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7946: Fix #7944: Demolishing locks built on rivers didn't always restore the river https://git.io/JvccC
20:01:44 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7946: Fix #7944: Demolishing locks built on rivers didn't always restore the river https://git.io/JvccW
20:08:45 <nielsm> (everything looks the same)
20:21:42 <nielsm> I'm not sure why exactly but it looks fixex
20:25:01 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #7970: Crash in crash handler - Assertion failed at line 2981 of window.cpp https://git.io/JvsUh
20:26:20 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #7991: Fix #7958: Custom catenary missing on road bridges https://git.io/JvcCU
20:27:31 <nielsm> got too many changes into that
20:29:26 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7991: Fix #7958: Custom catenary missing on road bridges https://git.io/JvcCU
20:33:06 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7991: Fix #7958: Custom catenary missing on road bridges https://git.io/JvcCG
20:34:39 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7991: Fix #7958: Custom catenary missing on road bridges https://git.io/JvcCU
20:35:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick dismissed a review for pull request #7946: Fix #7944: Demolishing locks built on rivers didn't always restore the river https://git.io/JvccC
20:35:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7946: Fix #7944: Demolishing locks built on rivers didn't always restore the river https://git.io/JvTHm
20:35:51 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7946: Fix #7944: Demolishing locks built on rivers didn't always restore the river https://git.io/JvcC8
20:39:38 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #7972: Impossible orders silently fail to be copied and have their sharing settings fully protected. https://git.io/JvGub
20:40:08 <frosch123> nielsm: is changing || to && the only change?
20:40:58 <nielsm> I just included the refactor since that was that initial step that made me notice where it was going wrong
20:41:22 <frosch123> but doesn't it draw garbage sprites now?
20:41:44 <frosch123> the issue is that the grf only provides half of the sprites, right?
20:42:13 <nielsm> if the grf only provides front or back, then nothing is used for the missing
20:42:38 <nielsm> exactly like for non-bridge roads
20:43:05 <frosch123> doesn't it draw sprite 23? which should trigger a warning about trying to draw a character glyph for a sprite?
20:43:29 <nielsm> hm yeah I missed that part
20:45:48 <frosch123> anyway, it's new to me that a grf is allowed to provide only front or back... but well all of nrt is undocumented
20:47:11 <peter1138> I imagine it should always provide both?
20:47:15 <peter1138> Document it as such.
20:47:19 <frosch123> nielsm: now also look at tunnels
20:49:52 <nielsm> tunnel only uses the front catenary for roads
20:50:06 <nielsm> doesn't even bother to check the back catenary
20:50:40 <nielsm> handled by the same code I fixed
20:52:26 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7991: Fix #7958: Custom catenary missing on road bridges https://git.io/JvcCU
20:52:57 <peter1138> 4 players on my server o_O
20:53:11 <nielsm> should I switch the two cases in the if around to match the ground road code?
20:56:17 <frosch123> andythenorth: yes, in know, pm send a noobie to paste random stuff into the specs
20:56:25 <frosch123> that was definitely a big help </sarcasm>
20:56:32 <andythenorth> I might have encouraged that also :P
20:56:33 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7946: Fix #7944: Demolishing locks built on rivers didn't always restore the river https://git.io/JvTHm
20:56:34 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh closed issue #7944: Demolishing a lock built on a river with rocky land does not restore the river https://git.io/JvT9g
20:56:52 <frosch123> anyway, i won't do any nrt stuff anymore
20:56:59 <frosch123> if noone cares, i cannot be solved
21:02:28 <LordAro> document nrt, apparently
21:04:09 <nielsm> I don't have the wisdom for #7000
21:04:19 <LordAro> i'm not sure anyone does
21:05:30 <frosch123> i did not see a newgrf that wants to use it
21:05:37 <frosch123> apis without users are pointless
21:08:32 <andythenorth> for 7000 I have a use for the singular change to railtypes
21:08:33 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/JvcWJ
21:08:33 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 closed pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/fhI7h
21:08:39 <andythenorth> but the rest is grown too large to comment
21:09:02 <andythenorth> var 6A would fix a bunch of Horse bug reports
21:09:10 <andythenorth> but the rest I just don't know
21:09:33 <nielsm> make a new PR extracting just that one var then?
21:10:38 <andythenorth> reported multiple times in different ways
21:10:59 <andythenorth> Horse can only reasonably check ELRL without this var 0x63 (was 6A in the original PR)
21:11:21 <andythenorth> I've been ignoring the bug reports, so I'm potato / potato
21:19:25 <nielsm> peter1138: I found something for you to do! sticky and unsticky some threads on tt-forums
21:19:34 <nielsm> the rc1 release thread
21:24:14 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #7991: Fix #7958: Custom catenary missing on road bridges https://git.io/JvcWn
21:24:20 <frosch123> ^^ that's the issue with nrt
21:25:09 <frosch123> multiple people changed whatever they talked about for 15 minutes in irc, changed it only in some places, made it all inconsistent, and did not even state their intentions
21:25:29 <frosch123> honestly if all of jgrpp got squashed, you would have less issues
21:26:15 <Samu> there is no savegame title now?
21:26:56 <LordAro> Samu: ...are you going to elaborate?
21:27:45 <Samu> testing a debug build, i see a water backgroun in main menu
21:28:01 <LordAro> that's... not expected
21:28:07 <LordAro> nor is it what i'm seeing
21:28:45 <nielsm> how messy does it look if both road and tram has catenary? and two different kinds of catenary?
21:29:44 <frosch123> ask Wolf01, andythenorth and peter1138
21:30:00 <frosch123> or whoever merged that pr
21:32:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7822: Fix #7670: Cache the origin tile to prevent recurring calls to the road pathfinder when a vehicle is blocked by another https://git.io/JegbJ
21:32:41 <Samu> visual studio just being messed up
21:33:06 <Samu> tell me if I got the savegame stuff correctly
21:33:08 <andythenorth> so the bug is that bridges don't draw both catenaries?
21:33:15 <andythenorth> or bridges can't, and the bug is in the spec?
21:33:32 <Samu> I still think it doesn't need to save those new members
21:33:53 <nielsm> andythenorth no the bug is that bridges only draw nrt catenary if the newgrf provides _both_ front and back, while ground road draws nrt catenary if it provides either
21:34:16 <andythenorth> there's also a bug in the docs in newgrf wiki vs. frosch wiki
21:34:25 <nielsm> and then frosch123 points out that bridges only draw one of road or tram catenary, while ground road draws both road and tram catenary
21:35:09 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick dismissed a review for pull request #7947: Fix #7945: Add cost of clearing the sloped tile when placing a dock https://git.io/Jvkbr
21:35:09 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7947: Fix #7945: Add cost of clearing the sloped tile when placing a dock https://git.io/JvTH0
21:36:09 <LordAro> ideally i don't think you'd be able to have road w/ catenary & tram w/ catenary on the same tile
21:36:19 <LordAro> but maybe it's too late for that
21:37:27 <nielsm> yes it sounds like a bad idea
21:37:43 <frosch123> yes that issue was known 3 years ago
21:38:02 <frosch123> same with the other issue you found last week, whether you should be able to build roat without vehiceles
21:39:14 <frosch123> ultimatively someone has to review whatever was commited, and write a spec what it should actually do
21:40:31 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7918: Fix 3c047b1: AIGroup.GetProfitLastYear could get values different than those displayed in gui https://git.io/Jvek6
21:40:39 <frosch123> i don't think you get anywhere if you only address issues once you find them
21:42:12 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7890: Fix #6452: Reset only editable and visible settings from GUI https://git.io/Jexqi
21:43:41 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7883: Fix: Ensure a minimum gap of water upon generating terrain with original generator https://git.io/JeNQn
21:44:01 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7991: Fix #7958: Custom catenary missing on road bridges https://git.io/JvcWM
21:44:57 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7880: Fix: Remove some redundant steps during world generation https://git.io/JeNLr
21:45:04 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened issue #7992: Bridges with both road and tram catenary only draw one of them https://git.io/JvcW9
21:46:03 <Wolf01> <nielsm> how messy does it look if both road and tram has catenary? and two different kinds of catenary? <- iirc the tram catenary takes priority
21:46:48 <nielsm> that's exactly what frosch123 said it does not
21:46:53 <nielsm> on ground roads _both_ are drawn
21:47:04 <nielsm> on bridges, only one of them is
21:47:17 <frosch123> the original plan was that road takes precedence
21:47:25 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7661: Codechange: Rework 'start_date' parameter for AIs as a game setting https://git.io/fjMsZ
21:47:27 <frosch123> then wolf and andy disagreed and changed it without documenting
21:47:40 <frosch123> now both can't remember that they changed it
21:48:27 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7503: Feature: Add aircraft type dropdown in Autoreplace window https://git.io/fjqQz
21:48:31 <Wolf01> I think we were trying to make it so you can provide a combined catenary with a grf prop
21:48:34 <peter1138> Good blame work. Now just decide what's meant to happen and make it so.
21:49:01 <andythenorth> 'Both road and tram may have catenary, but the catenaries exist independent of each other. A tile can show catenary, but still have "electrified road" and "not-electrified tram".'
21:49:09 <andythenorth> "Out of Date This article or section is outdated. Some of its content may no longer be accurate due to changes in the latest release. Please update this article.
21:49:09 <peter1138> frosch123, I mean the channel :p
21:49:09 <andythenorth> This spec is from May 2017. The actual implementation in OpenTTD 1.10 differs to an extent unknown."
21:49:19 <frosch123> i first quit nrt when people kept on breaking things, then i quit ottd when it got merged, despite people stating they did not want to maintain it
21:49:26 <peter1138> I mean, who really gives a shit which takes preference? Just draw something...
21:49:27 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7486: Fix: AI/GS settings with the flag SCRIPTCONFIG_RANDOM could be altered after loading from a savegame. https://git.io/fjtsp
21:50:48 <andythenorth> it just needs some archeology
21:50:56 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7376: More than max_no_competitors could be created in network games https://git.io/fjvY8
21:51:00 <nielsm> I'd say draw both and blame the newgrf author if it looks bad
21:51:05 <andythenorth> probably the fault is mine for never finishing the test grf
21:51:10 <frosch123> that's what i tried with the status list in the wiki
21:51:15 <andythenorth> the spec says draw both
21:51:23 <frosch123> but people spoiled the effort
21:51:35 <andythenorth> I could dig up the logs where all chat concludes it's only viable to draw both
21:51:39 <andythenorth> it was debated to death and further :)
21:51:47 <LordAro> blaming is pointless, try to work together to fix it
21:51:52 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7193: Fix #6468: Load correct version of AI as specified during the time of its save. https://git.io/fhHI1
21:52:43 <andythenorth> which would exercise the spec vs. reality
21:52:52 <andythenorth> but I find it much more appealing to draw tiny trains :P
21:53:05 <LordAro> there are plenty of bits of OTTD that are "unmaintained" - YAPF, cargodist + linkgraphs immediately spring to mind
21:53:11 <LordAro> but that doesn't matter
21:53:17 <LordAro> work together to fix problems
21:53:44 <andythenorth> I am quite happy to be blamed, I campaigned for the whole idea relentlessly :)
21:54:23 <peter1138> I'm busy enjoying Treadstone...
21:56:43 <andythenorth> just don't ask me to ever write a blog post again, that was insanely painful :P
21:57:12 <peter1138> Oh, it finished with no conclusion. Hmm.
21:57:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i had a huge gridlock in cities skylines out of nowhere... and i changed barely anything, but it cleared up after a while
21:58:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but no... :p
21:58:55 <Wolf01> NRT was already above my comprehension level when I started it, the only thing I could help with is to debate on it again
21:59:15 <andythenorth> debate not needed, just accurate docs :)
21:59:28 <andythenorth> then anything that doesn't comply is either insignificant, or just a bug
21:59:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i do lane management, and a few programmed traffic lights
22:00:23 <Eddi|zuHause> my traffic is above 70% currently, but it dropped to like 50% in the gridlock
22:00:34 <Eddi|zuHause> with no despawning of vehicles
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