IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-12-29
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00:02:51 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on issue #7872: Default openttd.cfg world gen settings don't allow Forests in Sub-Arctic https://git.io/JeFfG
00:19:42 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #127: Change: Do not limit section header to 500px https://git.io/JeNad
00:20:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro merged pull request #127: Change: Do not limit section header to 500px https://git.io/JeNzK
01:00:47 <LordAro> oh i see - ua-parser.js is being blocked by ublock on chromium, that's why it's a bullet list rather than a OS dropdown
01:01:15 <glx> yeah we found the same for firefox
01:11:10 <glx> but that's silly to block that for privacy, it's a local thing
01:12:19 <LordAro> yeah, trying to work out if i can dispute it
01:41:33 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro opened pull request #128: Fix bullet styles and text over multiple lines https://git.io/JeNwQ
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02:14:18 <glx> oh I should try using -c option of nmlc
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08:35:44 <andythenorth> such nice trains pikka
08:43:35 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7852: Feature: Show the name of the NewGRF in the build vehicle window. https://git.io/JeNXJ
08:45:51 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7550: Add: Screenshot window (& simplify the about/help DropDown) https://git.io/JeNXk
08:50:28 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth commented on pull request #66: Add: allow use of switches and random switches as procedures https://git.io/JeNXq
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09:35:34 <Pikka> thanks andythenorth :) o/
09:38:23 * andythenorth ruins Horse balance
09:38:35 <andythenorth> "need daylength" :D
09:39:11 <Eddi|zuHause> balance cannot possibly depend on daylength
09:40:14 <andythenorth> number of generations
09:40:28 <andythenorth> 'need to include my favourite trains'
09:41:49 <andythenorth> also hi Eddi|zuHause :)
09:57:42 <andythenorth> Pikka: early diesels is a right pain in the arse :)
09:57:49 <andythenorth> for pseudo-realism purposes
09:57:52 <andythenorth> so many of them :P
09:58:42 <andythenorth> I think I just destroyed the 'one obvious choice' rule :P
10:07:39 <Pikka> the correct choice is always a Class 37
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10:07:43 <Pikka> I should draw one for UKRS3
10:09:12 <andythenorth> I have designed a set with no 47
10:09:17 <andythenorth> and now I am trying to jam one in :P
10:10:36 <andythenorth> without a deltic there's no room :D
10:22:53 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro merged pull request #66: Add: allow use of switches and random switches as procedures https://git.io/JePq0
10:56:29 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain approved pull request #128: Fix bullet styles and text over multiple lines https://git.io/JeN1o
10:56:35 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #128: Fix bullet styles and text over multiple lines https://git.io/JeNwQ
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12:17:40 <andythenorth> Pikka: 2400hp freight engine 1988 (never built class 38). Looks like a class 58, or a class 60? :)
12:19:04 <Pikka> I'm not much of a fan of the 58 :)
12:19:18 <Pikka> but I guess at least it's distinctive
12:20:57 <andythenorth> I don't much like the bone
12:21:21 <andythenorth> I could repurpose Flanders Storm
12:22:24 <andythenorth> anybody fancy adding a 'more info' window to vehicles, with a button from buy menu?
12:22:31 * andythenorth wants to add detailed historical notes :P
12:22:38 <andythenorth> we could also put the 'which newgrf' there :P
12:25:52 <Samu> openttd.exe!TileMatrix<unsigned __int64,4>::AllocateStorage(unsigned int)
12:26:00 <Samu> says I don't have the source of this
12:35:22 <Samu> why? i thought openttd was open
12:37:16 <nielsm> I've hit on some apparently bug with visual studio recently where it claims it doesn't have code/debug sylbols for things obviously part of the project
12:37:22 <nielsm> workaround was to do a full rebuild of everything
12:48:48 <nielsm> but they've been kind enough to fill the GRF file with action 0C comments
12:51:41 <LordAro> pretty sure ECS isn't open source
12:52:21 <nielsm> yeah... creative commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported
12:57:03 <nielsm> defines first entry in cargo translation table as '0000' but does not define a cargo with that label
12:57:22 <nielsm> and then something returns that invalid cargo from a callback
12:58:56 <nielsm> so a bug in ECS, which may have been hidden by OTTD's industry code before the 16 in/out changes
12:59:07 <nielsm> so what's the right thing to do...
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13:12:48 <Samu> woah, GetSnowLine() is called by a bunch of everything
13:16:02 <FLHerne> nielsm: Ask mb about it, surely?
13:20:57 <Samu> _snow_line->highest_value = max(min((byte)MAX_SNOWLINE_HEIGHT, _snow_line->highest_value), table[i][j]);
13:20:57 <Samu> _snow_line->lowest_value = min(max((byte)MIN_SNOWLINE_HEIGHT, _snow_line->lowest_value), table[i][j]);
13:23:19 <Samu> erm no, SetSnowLine(), my bad
13:32:24 <nielsm> hmm... the spec isn't entirely clear actuallt
13:32:49 <nielsm> "return FFh as the last element to terminate the lists"
13:33:29 <nielsm> does that mean the literal return value before cargo table mapping (if applicable) should be FFh and only then does it terminate?
13:33:44 <nielsm> because I think possibly ECS thinks it can get away with returning any invalid cargo number
13:57:18 <michi_cc> nielsm: TTDpatch terminates on failed sprite lookup (not totally sure which cases that encompasses), getting a literal 0xFF or just reaching 2/3 values.
13:59:56 <nielsm> nah that seems to accept cargo numbers that resolve to cargolabels, for which there is no cargo definition
14:00:45 <nielsm> if the callback returns a cargo number, and that index in the cargo translation table is an invalid cargo, it just stuffs CT_INVALID into that position in the industry accepts table and continues
14:01:42 <michi_cc> Yeah, it will use whatever lookuptranslatedcargo returns, no questions asked.
14:02:13 <nielsm> and the issue here is that 16 in/out patch adds a check that the callback doesn't return duplicate CargoIDs
14:02:26 <nielsm> so if it returns CT_INVALID multiple times, then it becomes an error now
14:06:03 <michi_cc> I might be off the mark, but I think return CT_INVALID is necessary sometimes.
14:06:29 <michi_cc> If I understand TTDP right, the prop is always but into the data structure first, and according to the CB wiki page, bad things happen if your callback tries to add a cargo that is not in the prop.
14:07:05 <nielsm> the cargoes returned need to be in the accepts list for the industry type definition
14:07:23 <michi_cc> Which means in order to cancel out values from the prop, you must return invalid values, because nothing else writes to the industry struct.
14:07:30 <nielsm> what ECS does, as far as I can tell, is "blank out" cargoes in the accepts list it does not want
14:07:35 <nielsm> instead of shortening the list
14:07:39 <nielsm> probably simpler to code
14:08:38 <nielsm> so it makes an accepts list that goes FF 08 FF, instead of 08 FF FF
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14:09:01 <michi_cc> The callback does not allow shortening, the TTDPatch code simply exits when encountering 0xFF and will not clear our any remaing entries in e.g. industry.accepts.
14:09:02 <nielsm> by returning 00 08 00, instead of 08 FF
14:09:46 <michi_cc> Check lines 4526/4527 to see what I mean.
14:11:25 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #7882: Fix: Workaround for NewGRFs returning invalid cargo indexes in CB https://git.io/JeNyT
14:12:00 <frosch123> the old industry code relies heavily on what is 1st, 2nd or 3rd cargo. so blanking out cargos is very different to reordering cargos into a shorter list
14:15:28 <michi_cc> nielsm: Your PR will skip changeing i->produced_cargo[j]/i->accepts_cargo[j] now, won't it?
14:15:48 <frosch123> maybe put that into the comment? imo it's more helpful to state "we allow blanking cargos for old newgrf" instead of "some weird newgrf does it, so ignore it"
14:16:41 <nielsm> michi_cc: the array is pre-filled with CT_INVALID before the callback
14:17:12 <michi_cc> Ah, yeah, that would do it :)
14:17:47 <michi_cc> Is this old code BTW, because technically it does not match TTDPatch then.
14:18:57 <frosch123> it's hard to guess what ecs stuff was developed against ttdp or ottd
14:19:21 <michi_cc> If you make CB 14B return <Cargo> 0xFF, TTDPatch will only overwrite i->accepts_cargo[0] and leave 1/2 alone.
14:20:31 <michi_cc> Ah, sorry, I take that back and claim the opposite :p
14:20:44 <frosch123> yes, ttdp also blanks it
14:21:45 <michi_cc> Bloody indirect asm coding :p Why OR and not just a MOV as well?
14:22:37 <frosch123> clearly it does both :)
14:22:53 <frosch123> "or" for the first two, "mov" for the third
14:25:15 <michi_cc> Ah, somebody wanted to save a whole byte by using the "r/m16 OR imm8 (sign-extended)" form instead of the imm16 move encoding :p
14:25:25 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7882: Fix: Workaround for NewGRFs returning invalid cargo indexes in CB https://git.io/JeNyT
14:26:36 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7882: Fix: Workaround for NewGRFs returning invalid cargo indexes in CB https://git.io/JeNy3
14:26:45 <frosch123> really, there is a sign-extending or? but is it shorter than the sign-extending movsb?
14:27:45 <frosch123> hmm, it's not movsb... my assembly is too rusty
14:28:59 <frosch123> at least i got 4 out of 5 letters correct
14:30:36 <michi_cc> movsb is string move, especially if coupled with a rep
14:31:35 <frosch123> yes, my memory first arrived at "movsx" but then i thought i had to replace "x" with the size of the operation b/w/d
14:32:30 <frosch123> but the "x" meant "extend", not "wildcard"
14:36:47 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 merged pull request #7882: Fix: Workaround for NewGRFs returning invalid cargo indexes in CB https://git.io/JeNyT
14:47:02 <frosch123> hmm, all console commands use some CC_xxx alias for coloring
14:47:18 <frosch123> yet i have difficulties mapping the profiler usage to the existing CC_xx
14:57:29 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #7868: Feature: NewGRF callback profiling https://git.io/JeNyz
15:41:28 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #127: Change: Do not limit section header to 500px https://git.io/JeNST
15:41:53 <TrueBrain> bad review LordAro :P :D
15:43:05 <Samu> i just discovered flat worlds also need to determine snow line height
15:43:12 <Samu> due to freeform edges being off
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16:04:32 <Pikka> andythenorth, Deltic is out. Class 66 is out. Gresley Pacifics are out, they've been done.
16:05:23 <andythenorth> class 50 with deltic engine
16:05:44 <andythenorth> nah, I'm adding one
16:05:49 <andythenorth> my mail trains are too slow
16:06:07 <andythenorth> oof something about airports
16:06:30 <andythenorth> I don't understand the airports controversy
16:06:40 <andythenorth> are we supposed to be reverting it for 1.10 Beta 3?
16:07:18 <andythenorth> Pikka: deltic zellepin!
16:07:26 <andythenorth> that might even be a thing
16:24:47 <Samu> why do I have to make such gymnastics with values...
16:25:23 <Samu> flat_world_height can be 0
16:25:36 <Samu> 0 - 2 = -2, so it goes into (int) territory
16:27:11 <Samu> can I make less gymnastics with this code?
16:29:17 <frosch123> do people remember the old subsidiaries patch?
16:31:43 <andythenorth> is it a good story? :)
16:32:34 <frosch123> there was drama about it never getting included. now reddit has reinvented it using hierarchical groups and group liveries
16:34:31 <andythenorth> as examples of OpenTTD innovation
16:34:42 <andythenorth> all innovations are future regrets :D
16:36:01 <andythenorth> right below yours :)
16:40:38 <Samu> who can review these comments
16:40:45 <Samu> need help with commenting
16:43:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone dismissed a review for pull request #7852: Feature: Show the name of the NewGRF in the build vehicle window. https://git.io/JeNLJ
16:43:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone updated pull request #7852: Feature: Show the name of the NewGRF in the build vehicle window. https://git.io/JeMKL
16:45:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone commented on pull request #7852: Feature: Show the name of the NewGRF in the build vehicle window. https://git.io/JeNSA
16:53:53 <frosch123> does not look like horse. is that pikka?
16:58:17 <frosch123> ok, am i hard wired to "no tank car -> can't be horse"?
17:00:22 <andythenorth> this fast compile is good eh?
17:00:31 <andythenorth> I can add trains so much faster :P
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17:16:06 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7852: Feature: Show the name of the NewGRF in the build vehicle window. https://git.io/JeN9Y
17:18:53 <nielsm> (never stop bikeshedding)
17:19:24 <andythenorth> I have drawn a spectacularly ugly train
17:19:56 <andythenorth> which is unappealing
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17:34:47 <Samu> I have a serious haunting dilema, related to #7877. It's very rare that farms are generated at snowline=3, especially at small maps. Better chances are at snowline=4, but at this height it would make Very Flat more like Flat. But if I were to raise snowline to 4, that PR starts to make sense, it would never be able to generate at snowline=3, simplifying my code
17:35:57 <Samu> what I have now is farms that can have a ~1% chance to spawn on 64x64 maps
17:36:08 <andythenorth> just write a newgrf?
17:36:12 <andythenorth> then problem is solved?
17:37:04 <nielsm> the solution is to not make bad maps
17:37:11 <nielsm> or tell the player they made a bad map
17:37:52 <andythenorth> just use the reddit solution
17:38:21 <Samu> on 128x128 maps, it fails too often than I'd like, especially considering I'm making a patch where it's supposed to be smart about it
17:38:39 <Samu> snowline=4 solves many headaches
17:39:26 <Samu> even though it's possible at 3
17:41:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone updated pull request #7852: Feature: Show the name of the NewGRF in the build vehicle window. https://git.io/JeMKL
17:43:44 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone commented on pull request #7852: Feature: Show the name of the NewGRF in the build vehicle window. https://git.io/JeN90
17:44:57 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #7852: Feature: Show the name of the NewGRF in the build vehicle window. https://git.io/JeN9E
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18:07:03 <Samu> now im getting the problem at the other side of the spectrum t.t
18:07:16 <Samu> 64x64 just too difficult
18:08:57 <nielsm> the default industry set was designed with the default map generator and 256x256 maps in mind, nothing else
18:09:13 <nielsm> when you change the rules you can't expect it to give good results
18:09:30 <Samu> I need to compromise to make this work well
18:11:15 <Samu> farms closer to snowline
18:12:07 <Samu> that would bring back snowline down to 3, meaning less height required, which is a good thing for such a small map
18:12:23 <Samu> more chances for forests to spawn
18:12:30 <nielsm> you're trying to drive a full size bus around a kids' traffic training playground
18:13:15 <nielsm> either you'll hit something with the front end or you'll hit something with the back end, there just isn't enough space to maneuver
18:16:35 <Samu> LordAro also complained about 6 being too high for very flat
18:17:06 <Samu> everybody is happy, except frosch
18:21:38 <Samu> arf, forests still fail most of the time with original generator, maybe with my other patch about water margins
18:37:55 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] spnda commented on pull request #7550: Add: Screenshot window (& simplify the about/help DropDown) https://git.io/JeNHw
19:20:02 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7883: Fix: Ensure a minimum gap of water upon generating terrain with original generator https://git.io/JeNQn
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19:34:32 <Samu> automatically determined or determined automatically? what's better english
19:34:54 <Samu> Move the snow line height one down If set above maximum, the line is determined automatically
19:36:26 <Samu> determined or determinated :o
19:42:34 <andythenorth> could we squeeze hp/ton into the train info window? :P
19:42:55 <andythenorth> it's considerably more relevant than TE
19:44:16 <frosch123> we need an excel patch that allows you add custom columns to lists
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20:27:56 * andythenorth writes back stories for all Iron Horse engines
20:30:38 <andythenorth> hmm can I docstring methods? o_O
20:39:34 <Samu> oh no, some of my other PRs have conflicts because there was a savegame bump
20:42:44 <peter1138> At least they're easy to fix these days :p
20:43:06 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 commented on pull request #113: Change: semantic HTML-elements for the pages main sections https://git.io/JeN5e
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20:56:47 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #7550: Add: Screenshot window (& simplify the about/help DropDown) https://git.io/JeN5C
20:59:02 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #113: Change: semantic HTML-elements for the pages main sections https://git.io/JeN58
21:08:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 commented on pull request #127: Change: Do not limit section header to 500px https://git.io/JeN56
21:10:39 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7661: Codechange: Rework 'start_date' parameter for AIs as a game setting https://git.io/fjMsZ
21:16:26 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 commented on pull request #113: Change: semantic HTML-elements for the pages main sections https://git.io/JeN57
21:18:32 <andythenorth> my plane crashed :(
21:18:35 <andythenorth> on a small airport
21:19:36 <andythenorth> I bought a new one :P
21:23:28 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 commented on issue #117: There's a couple of layouting/responsiveness issues in the OpenTTD website. https://git.io/Jed55
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21:38:49 <Samu> some of the listed widgets don't have links
21:39:37 <glx> all the content of this page comes from the comments in the source code
21:51:32 <Samu> seems like I've been doing this all wrong :(
21:52:15 <Samu> i've been manually editing
21:56:09 <glx> they are generated with doxygen
21:56:37 <glx> oh the .sq are generated with scripts
21:56:39 <Samu> if I create a widget, how to make it into game_window.hpp.sq
21:57:12 <glx> generate_widgets then squirrel_export
21:58:34 <glx> yup generate_widget in src/scripts/api
21:59:24 <glx> better run it using cscript than wscript
22:09:57 <Samu> now I run generate_widgets.vbs with cscript
22:10:07 <Samu> but they didn't appear :(
22:12:24 <Samu> those were manually entered
22:13:12 <glx> you just run "cscript generate_widget.vbs" from src/scripts/api
22:13:59 <glx> it's a command line script
22:15:37 <glx> oh generate_widget modifies game_window.hpp
22:16:04 <glx> for the .sq you need to run squirrel_export after generate_widget
22:17:08 <glx> and you don't need to modify game_window.hpp manually ;)
22:18:11 <Samu> aha, github desktop detected the change!
22:18:19 <Samu> it's there now :) thanks this was it
22:22:47 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 requested changes for pull request #7550: Add: Screenshot window (& simplify the about/help DropDown) https://git.io/JeNFo
22:23:32 <glx> thanks you remind me to check it for this PR :)
22:26:33 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7661: Codechange: Rework 'start_date' parameter for AIs as a game setting https://git.io/fjMsZ
22:34:10 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7503: Feature: Add aircraft type dropdown in Autoreplace window https://git.io/fjqQz
22:35:04 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 opened pull request #129: Fix: remove fixed width of element #section-full https://git.io/JeNFF
22:48:29 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #129: Fix: remove fixed width of element #section-full https://git.io/JeNbn
22:49:39 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro merged pull request #129: Fix: remove fixed width of element #section-full https://git.io/JeNFF
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23:54:52 <andythenorth> doesn't look good enough :)
23:55:17 <andythenorth> problem is that all realistic UK diesels from 1970 are boxes
23:55:28 <andythenorth> until they are all cheeses
23:56:56 <andythenorth> when is 3 company colours? :)
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